interchange: Implicit in the arguments made RE: conservative or liberal leanings is that one is right and the other is wrong (depending on which you identify with).
M: Are you saying that if you are a liberal you think liberals are right and if conservative conservatives are right, that who is right is dependent on who you are, or are you saying that with any liberal conservative issue, only one side can factually be right, or are you saying there is in reality no factually is to be had?
i: Nearly all of us would be mortified to exchange the words liberal/conservative with black/white or Christian/Muslim, etc. in these arguments.
M: I do not understand this. Can you make some argument and such a substitution to clarify it?
i: Not even an average lifetime ago, these kinds of discussions pertaining to race would be normal, and anyone arguing for a more moderated stance would be shamed and branded a n****r lover.
M: Do you mean normal as in common place, or normal as in how such an argument would normally go. I can't find anything in my own understanding of a lifetime ago that assures me those who opposed racism would be branded as you describe. My birth certificate came from the same hospital as Obama's which may mean I was born in Kenya so I may have a more colored view than most. Yes, there was a pun in there.
i: I happen to believe that neither conservativism nor liberalism are inherently superior, although there are some glaring differences in the ethical and practical application of such leanings vis-a-vis the Republican and Democratic parties. That should not confound the basic question of value in more conservative (amygdala-mediated) or liberal (cognitively-mediated) positions that this study purports to examine.
M: Well, I happen to believe that liberal is in fact superior to conservative when it comes to dealing with unpleasant realities so I guess I would say that superiority depends on or is determined by context. I could flesh this out much more but I won't here.
i: In fact, if you assent that amygdala size is genetically determined, we must live with the reality that diversity of amygdala operation in our population is determined by
evolution.
M: I do not so assert. I do not see how a person can change from liberal to conservative or visa versa in those seemingly few cases where that happens if our condition is genetic. I have long speculated that an enlarged amygdala may relate to a particularly threatening kind of childhood experience, demanding conformity via greater than average physical and psychological abuse.
i: Clearly, all persons have cognitively-mediated
and amygdala-mediated operations. The studies show that, through a trivial visualization exercise, these operations can be significantly influenced. Conservatives and liberals alike use both quite often and with quite a bit of flexibility. There is more variance within each group, in fact, than between the two groups overall.
M: I agree with this. I do not know the degree of variation between or within, only that self identified conservatives are more likely than liberals to resist facts that emotionally grind on their beliefs. They are less able to set aside feelings, especially fear, in favor of rational risk assessment. This is why they are generally more anti science, anti news objectivity, more in denial, etc.
i: And I use these biological findings far more loosely than data supports. It is much more complicated than amygdala size, and the populations tested are not very representative of the average US adult.
M: I would agree here too but I believe that regardless of sample size if you go with what people self report as liberal or conservative, you will find conservatives have the larger amygdalae and all the complexity will enter in when what the how amygdala and the cingulate fit is with human cognition.
The problem we have is that we have all been made to hate ourselves in part by the mechanism of comparison. We have been told over and over again we don't measure up to this or that standard like Suzy or Johnny does. We generally rate rationality above hysterical etc. Once these biases take root, self assessment becomes hard work, becomes sometimes painful.
I started describing conservatives as defective, having a conservative brain defect, to demonstrate just how negatively they reacted to that word defect even in the face of when having it confers survival benefits. The only people who could see the absurdity of such predicted foolishness playing out instantly were liberals.
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