Carson: Islam not consistent with Constitution; no Muslim should ever be President

[JD50]

This is the same outrage machine that gets mad at gov workers who do not hand out marriage certs to gay couples and that women are not getting paid equally or are on the face of our currency. What do those idiots think Sharia law does with gays and how do they think women are treated?

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/09/24/to-this-secular-muslim-ben-carson-had-a-point.html

I don't care what the religion is, get that hocus pokus BS out of our politics PERIOD.

I don't believe I've seen any of those people advocating or supporting Sharia law, I certainly don't.

 

[Moonbeam]

realibrad: People try to sound "deep" by saying conflicting things.

M: Oh that's nothing compared to what people do when they hear 'deep' things. They immediately look for ways to pretend they didn't. The fear of being called shallow is a big issue in our competitive intellectually snobby culture and any who might seem to really know something must be hammered down. That stifling of wisdom that goes on in our culture every day leaves people ignorant of what real knowledge looks like. One of the foremost features of truth is that it integrated opposites and if one is not dealing with paradox and opposites one is nowhere near the truth. So don't be too hard on yourself because it's not easy to be other than shallow. You just have to unlearn that fear since it's real anyway.

r: You can never free yourself from pain because the self is pain.

M: There is much to unlearn.

r: Those who are not clear are in fear of others realizing there's is nothing to see.

M: And this little piggy went wee wee wee all the way home.

 

[Moonbeam]

I'm pretty anti-religious, but I don't think that's fair.

People with self esteem issues tend to denigrate others in order to feel better about themselves. Since you seem to have a better handle on your own self worth you notice this as not being fair. That is because self respect carries with it the impulse to be fair, but in his condition it's not an issue yet.

 

[justoh]

I don't know how to explain it, for some reason people just shut off the critical thinking portion of their brain when it comes to religion..

Maybe it's because they're morons. We have to learn how to think critically. Most people never do.

 

[bshole]

Maybe it's because they're morons. We have to learn how to think critically. Most people never do.

Laws should be made that help humanity, not to conform to the book of some sky god.

 

[realibrad]

Maybe it's because they're morons. We have to learn how to think critically. Most people never do.

Some are morons sure, but others compartmentalize.
Newton was likely one of, if not the smartest person ever and he was very much a believer. He did come from a different time, but that only shows that society can shape people's world view.

I personally do not believe in God, and I think that once anyone is presented with the fact that there is not any proof for God should realize their error. People look to religion as a comfort because people are weak and scared. Some I think really are horrible people and religion may very well stop them from raping and killing. Point is there are many reasons. Most are probably bad, but not all have to do with being a moron.

 

[Blanky]

Islam is obviously very contrary to most core values in the constitution and contrary to how a lot of Americans think, so his view is not surprising at all. It's somewhat surprising he would say it and not weasel out of it, but islam is against free speech, for violent compulsion to its religion, etc. Not sure what the big debate is here.

What's more sad is this faux outrage people have, like how dare he say something that--oh yeah, he's right.

 

[Mike64]

Islam is obviously very contrary to most core values in the constitution and contrary to how a lot of Americans think, so his view is not surprising at all. It's somewhat surprising he would say it and not weasel out of it, but islam is against free speech, for violent compulsion to its religion, etc. Not sure what the big debate is here.

What's more sad is this faux outrage people have, like how dare he say something that--oh yeah, he's right.

You're rather late to the party, aren't you?:| The dozen or so other similar posts didn't express that ignorant, misguided view clearly enough for you?

 

[Jaskalas]

You're rather late to the party, aren't you?:| The dozen or so other similar posts didn't express that ignorant, misguided view clearly enough for you?

Ignorant and misguided?
If I say this country isn't a theocracy, are you going to be mad and stomp your feet?

Pray tell how we're all so very much misguided.

 

[TastesLikeChicken]

You're rather late to the party, aren't you?:| The dozen or so other similar posts didn't express that ignorant, misguided view clearly enough for you?

How deluded. You seem to believe that because the political section of this tech forum, which is flooded with left-wingers, has come to their conclusion that Islam is not incompatible with the Constitution, it must somehow be an accepted fact for everyone everywhere. lol. How typical of the wingnuts in here to live in their own little world.

 

[sandorski]

How deluded. You seem to believe that because the political section of this tech forum, which is flooded with left-wingers, has come to their conclusion that Islam is not incompatible with the Constitution, it must somehow be an accepted fact for everyone everywhere. lol. How typical of the wingnuts in here to live in their own little world.

Who did this?

 

[TheSlamma]

I don't see how this has any problem in our system

“Those who reject Islam must be killed. If they turn back (from Islam), take hold of them and kill them wherever you find them.” (Sura 4:89)

“Fight those who believe not in Allah … until they pay the jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued” (Sura 9:29)

"Allah curses those men who make themselves resemble women or those women who make themselves resemble men"

So that wipes out all those damn glam rockers, I bet Pat and Chris from SNL are safe though, that cover is hard to blow!

 

[Mike64]

You seem to believe that because the political section of this tech forum, which is flooded with left-wingers, has come to their conclusion that Islam is not incompatible with the Constitution, it must somehow be an accepted fact for everyone everywhere. lol. How typical of the wingnuts in here to live in their own little world.

:awe:

As usual, the typical NeoCon's ability to ignore reality and even the slightest semblance of rational argument strikes me dumb. As you were...

 

[jonks]

Islam is obviously very contrary to most core values in the constitution and contrary to how a lot of Americans think, so his view is not surprising at all. It's somewhat surprising he would say it and not weasel out of it, but islam is against free speech, for violent compulsion to its religion, etc. Not sure what the big debate is here.

What's more sad is this faux outrage people have, like how dare he say something that--oh yeah, he's right.

Sounds like you've never read the old testament, or as the Jews call it, the Bible. They seem to get along just fine in America.

 

[jonks]

I don't see how this has any problem in our system

“Those who reject Islam must be killed. If they turn back (from Islam), take hold of them and kill them wherever you find them.” (Sura 4:89)

“Fight those who believe not in Allah … until they pay the jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued” (Sura 9:29)

"Allah curses those men who make themselves resemble women or those women who make themselves resemble men"

So that wipes out all those damn glam rockers, I bet Pat and Chris from SNL are safe though, that cover is hard to blow!

Do we really need to quote Leviticus?

 

[TastesLikeChicken]

:awe:

As usual, the typical NeoCon's ability to ignore reality and even the slightest semblance of rational argument strikes me dumb. As you were...

Great. So, actually, you and the other lefties in here agree that Islam is incompatible with the Constitution and therefore agree with Carson. Thanks for the admission. If that's how you feel then what was the point of this thread in the first place? Was it for certain people to come in here and do their little anti-Christian slam dance?

That's not to mention that the thread title is partially bullshit. Carson never said "no Muslim should ever be President." He simply said he wouldn't advocate such a candidate, nor would he support one. That's his personal position and he has the right to have that opinion.

You know what? There certainly has been a lot of dumb and stupid in this thread. It's just not emanating from where you seem to believe it is.

 

[justoh]

repost. was important

 

[justoh]

It's emanating from your momma

 

[Mike64]

Great. So, actually, you and the other lefties in here agree that Islam is incompatible with the Constitution and therefore agree with Carson. Thanks for the admission. If that's how you feel then what was the point of this thread in the first place? Was it for certain people to come in here and do their little anti-Christian slam dance?

That's not to mention that the thread title is partially bullshit. Carson never said "no Muslim should ever be President." He simply said he wouldn't advocate such a candidate, nor would he support one. That's his personal position and he has the right to have that opinion.

You know what? There certainly has been a lot of dumb and stupid in this thread. It's just not emanating from where you seem to believe it is.

Oh, dear God. Read my post, not the hazy image of it you think you see on the back of your eyelids.

And no, what it means is that I'm not about to waste my time "debating" a raving lunatic, of any political persuasion for that matter...

 

[MongGrel]

Maybe it's because they're morons. We have to learn how to think critically. Most people never do.

There is a major lack of that these days.

 

[TastesLikeChicken]

Oh, dear God. Read my post, not the hazy image of it you think you see on the back of your eyelids.

And no, what it means is that I'm not about to waste my time "debating" a raving lunatic, of any political persuasion for that matter...

Then don't waste your time, kid. Why even submit your ridiculously vague comments in the first place? Are you afraid to commit and actually say something with substance and a stance? That certainly appears to be the case.

 

[shira]

How deluded. You seem to believe that because the political section of this tech forum, which is flooded with left-wingers, has come to their conclusion that Islam is not incompatible with the Constitution, it must somehow be an accepted fact for everyone everywhere. lol. How typical of the wingnuts in here to live in their own little world.

Religion - ANY religion - as practiced by fundamentalists is incompatible with the Constitution. But somehow you don't see Republicans up in arms about a small thing like fundamentalist Christians willfully resisting the Constitutional right of same-sex couples to get married or the Constitutional right of women to have access to abortions.

Interesting, isn't it? When its their PREFERRED fundamentalist religion that's incompatible with the Constitution, righties label it "religious freedom."

 

[TastesLikeChicken]

Religion - ANY religion - as practiced by fundamentalists is incompatible with the Constitution. But somehow you don't see Republicans up in arms about a small thing like fundamentalist Christians willfully resisting the Constitutional right of same-sex couples to get married or the Constitutional right of women to have access to abortions.

Interesting, isn't it? When its their PREFERRED fundamentalist religion that's incompatible with the Constitution, righties label it "religious freedom."

Christian fundies in the US are free to disagree with the recent supreme court decision. Their dissent can even extend to not doing their jobs (though I know plenty of pubbies that don't agree with her actions). But the simple fact is despite the supposedly overwhelming amount of Christian fundies, or so the lefties in here would have you believe they are some kind of overwhelming force, this country still has majority support for gay rights. Let's not also forget that a large majority of this country also professes to be Christian. Therefore, a good amount of Christians also support gay rights.

Contrast that to Muslim countries where it is not just the fundies that deny gays rights, it's a large majority within Islam. In fact, there are Islamic countries that hang gays by the neck purely because of their sexual preference, have laws that persecute them, or jail them. There isn't a single Islamic country that provides equal rights to gays. Not one. If there is one I am not aware of, feel free to name it.

So when I see people in here tilting at windmills by trying to imply that Christianity is just as bad as Islam I can't help but roll my eyes. There is a difference, a rather large one. Certain people need to drop the lame comparisons. It's not even close.

 

[ivwshane]

So you are saying some religion that's not consistent with the constitution is ok? It's just that Islam crosses that line? What exactly is that line then?

What you don't seem to understand is that religion as an institution or as a personal belief isn't inconsistent with the constitution, it's irrelevant to the constitution. The government shall make no laws respecting the establishment of a religion and there shall be no religious test. Therefore it doesn't matter if a religion is compatible or not with the constitution because the two shall not mix. It doesn't matter what one believes because, as president, they take an oath to uphold the constitution, as in, the constitution trumps all and any beliefs.

The only way religion would matter in government is if you had all three branches of government working together to enact religious laws, deem those laws constitutional and enforce such laws. Guess what religious group if any has a chance of doing that? Hint: it's not Islam.

Christian fundies in the US are free to disagree with the recent supreme court decision. Their dissent can even extend to not doing their jobs (though I know plenty of pubbies that don't agree with her actions). But the simple fact is despite the supposedly overwhelming amount of Christian fundies, or so the lefties in here would have you believe they are some kind of overwhelming force, this country still has majority support for gay rights. Let's not also forget that a large majority of this country also professes to be Christian. Therefore, a good amount of Christians also support gay rights.

Contrast that to Muslim countries where it is not just the fundies that deny gays rights, it's a large majority within Islam. In fact, there are Islamic countries that hang gays by the neck purely because of their sexual preference, have laws that persecute them, or jail them. There isn't a single Islamic country that provides equal rights to gays. Not one. If there is one I am not aware of, feel free to name it.

So when I see people in here tilting at windmills by trying to imply that Christianity is just as bad as Islam I can't help but roll my eyes. There is a difference, a rather large one. Certain people need to drop the lame comparisons. It's not even close.

 

[TastesLikeChicken]

So you are saying some religion that's not consistent with the constitution is ok? It's just that Islam crosses that line? What exactly is that line then?

That line is crossed when religion cannot separate itself from government. Islam cannot do that because Islam demands that Sharia be part and parcel of government.

What you don't seem to understand is that religion as an institution or as a personal belief isn't inconsistent with the constitution, it's irrelevant to the constitution. The government shall make no laws respecting the establishment of a religion and there shall be no religious test. Therefore it doesn't matter if a religion is compatible or not with the constitution because the two shall not mix. It doesn't matter what one believes because, as president, they take an oath to uphold the constitution, as in, the constitution trumps all and any beliefs.

The only way religion would matter in government is if you had all three branches of government working together to enact religious laws, deem those laws constitutional and enforce such laws. Guess what religious group if any has a chance of doing that? Hint: it's not Islam.

What you don't understand is that I understand perfectly that religion isn't completely inconsistent with the constitution. After all, it was Christians that wrote our own Constitution. I also agree with you that Islam could do no such thing. Islam could never separate religion from government.