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Cars
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luckysnafu
Senior member
I do expect to be treated as a car when I ride my bike. I am subject to the same laws, so why shouldn't I have the same rights. Obviously there are some limitations to this. I should not take up the whole lane if I am going to slow down everybody else, and this gives cars the right to pass me, as long as its safe. I always ride the farthest to the right that I can, but on some roads I end up just inside the white line. I don't want to slow others down, but sometimes it happens.
I do agree that there are some roads that are unsafe for bikers, and they should use them at their own risk. I ride in a 45mph zone because I am confident in my riding skills and am on the road for a mile or less.
luckysnafu
Senior member
Places where passing is always unsafe and usually illegal:
* at intersections in cities and towns or at railroad crossings;
* at marked intersections in rural areas;
* on any curve or hill where the driver cannot see at least 500 feet ahead;
* wherever there is a solid yellow line in the driver?s lane;
* wherever there is a double solid yellow line;
* at intersections or crosswalks where a car has stopped to allow people to cross the street; and
* wherever the driver cannot see that the road is clear of traffic far enough ahead to pass safely.
I agree that if I am holding up more than 10 cars, I will pull over. But if I am only holding up a few cars for less than half a minute, then they can wait. If i am approaching a hill, I will sometimes "take" the lane so that cars cannot pass me due to how unsafe it is over a hill.
I grew up in PA, living in Amish country and had to deal with passing buggies all the time. Now, when you come up to a buggy traveling <20mph on a road that is 45mph zone, what do you do? You slow down behind it and follow it until it is safe to pass. If you are going around turns or over hills, you must wait until it is safe to pass them, even if you have to wait 20-30 seconds. The buggies will travel as far right as possible, but still some places are unsafe to pass yes people still do. I think the cars that pass unsafely are just asking for trouble and dont understand that its not worth risking an accident for 20 seconds of their time.
Im not trying to edge on this argument here, I just want people who drive cars to realize how difficult it is to ride a bike around them.
* at intersections in cities and towns or at railroad crossings;
* at marked intersections in rural areas;
* on any curve or hill where the driver cannot see at least 500 feet ahead;
* wherever there is a solid yellow line in the driver?s lane;
* wherever there is a double solid yellow line;
* at intersections or crosswalks where a car has stopped to allow people to cross the street; and
* wherever the driver cannot see that the road is clear of traffic far enough ahead to pass safely.
I agree that if I am holding up more than 10 cars, I will pull over. But if I am only holding up a few cars for less than half a minute, then they can wait. If i am approaching a hill, I will sometimes "take" the lane so that cars cannot pass me due to how unsafe it is over a hill.
I grew up in PA, living in Amish country and had to deal with passing buggies all the time. Now, when you come up to a buggy traveling <20mph on a road that is 45mph zone, what do you do? You slow down behind it and follow it until it is safe to pass. If you are going around turns or over hills, you must wait until it is safe to pass them, even if you have to wait 20-30 seconds. The buggies will travel as far right as possible, but still some places are unsafe to pass yes people still do. I think the cars that pass unsafely are just asking for trouble and dont understand that its not worth risking an accident for 20 seconds of their time.
Im not trying to edge on this argument here, I just want people who drive cars to realize how difficult it is to ride a bike around them.
These really only apply if you have to cross the lines to pass, which with a cyclist is often not the case, and when it is safe to pass is more often than not a judgement call.
More than 10 cars is ridiculous. You could be holding someone up for 10 minutes if you waited for 10 cars to pile up behind you. Additionally, if someone wants to pass you, best slow down, move over and let them so you don't have some road-raging nutjob tailgating you. Even in the car, I routinely do this when I'm lost or looking for a side street and am going slow. I'd rather let people go by than have to deal with them. It's no skin off my back.
"Taking" the lane is also ridiculous (and illegal by all that's been posted here). You may think you're making it safer for yourself, but you're just going to have some jackass try to pass you anyway and it's just going to be even more risky for the both of you than if you were hugging the fogline.
I think most people realize this, but cyclists often seem to be unaware of how difficult it can be to drive a car when there is a bicycle obstructing the roadway. It takes a conscious effort to force yourself to go 25 in a 45. It doesn't really matter if you're in a hurry...I'm legendary for not hurrying for any reason, and it still is hard for me to do this.
I'm very tolerant of cyclists on city and residential streets, but on narrow high speed roads like we've been discussing, it's dangerous for everyone involved. I would prefer if cyclists did not place themselves and other motorists in such situations.
luckysnafu
Senior member
How is "taking" the lane illegal? Why should I put myself in danger riding on the extreme right side of the road just to let some person in a hurry pass me? I usually only take the lane for 10-20 seconds at most and this is because it is safer for cars not to pass me for those 10-20 seconds than for me to ride on the extreme right side of the road. When I ride on the extreme right side of the road people are MORE likely to pass closely to me. The farther into the lane I am the more people see me and the more they move over to pass me. People in cars are NOT looking for object on the right hand side of the road, they are looking for them in the middle. I move to the middle and "take" the lane so that peopel see me, slow down, and then when there is room to pass I will move back to the right so cars can pass me.
Black88GTA
Diamond Member
Granted, some drivers are assholes when it comes to bicycle courtesy. However, it goes both ways. At least 3/5 days I go out to lunch from work (usually around noon) I see the same bicyclist. Full biker gear, spandex, helmet, yellow jersey, the whole bit. This guy is riding his bike in the middle of very busy roads, on a weekday, in a very commercialized area. Traffic is always bumper-to-bumper even without this guy mucking everything up.
This guy chooses lunchtime during the week to go riding - on a 6-lane highway, split by a median, with a speed limit of 55 MPH (which everyone ignores anyway). This road has no bike lane, and with good reason. There are stores and businesses (some very large) side-by-side all up and down this road with a mall about 1/2 mile down, and traffic is very heavy - especially at lunchtime and 5:00 ish.
Couldn't this guy pick a better time/location to go riding, rather than inconvenience hundreds of people trying to go out on their 1-hour lunch break? Not to mention, indirectly create dangerous driving conditions with irate drivers trying to get around him. I've seen so many near-accidents and very close calls brought on by this asshat than I care to think about. And yet he seems completely oblivious to it - or just doesn't care.
This guy chooses lunchtime during the week to go riding - on a 6-lane highway, split by a median, with a speed limit of 55 MPH (which everyone ignores anyway). This road has no bike lane, and with good reason. There are stores and businesses (some very large) side-by-side all up and down this road with a mall about 1/2 mile down, and traffic is very heavy - especially at lunchtime and 5:00 ish.
Couldn't this guy pick a better time/location to go riding, rather than inconvenience hundreds of people trying to go out on their 1-hour lunch break? Not to mention, indirectly create dangerous driving conditions with irate drivers trying to get around him. I've seen so many near-accidents and very close calls brought on by this asshat than I care to think about. And yet he seems completely oblivious to it - or just doesn't care.
Around here (in quebec) the traffic law states that bicycles have to drive with traffic. Have to obey all the road sings, turning lanes. The only difference with a bike and a car here is that a bike is the same as a tractor or whatnot with a triangle yield sign. Meaning you can pass a bike at all times when its safe to do so.
Its people in cars that are the hazard/problem, not the bikers.
The Pentium Guy
Diamond Member
Lol!
Because we have already established that it is not legal to obstruct the flow of traffic, which is *exactly* what you are doing by obstructing the entire lane. That's doubly true if you are going UPHILL on a high speed road!
Hold the phones...we're talking about riding a bicycle on a narrow, two-lane road with no shoulders and a 45 MPH speed limit, and you have the gaul to ask "Why should I put myself in danger...?"
What are you doing on this road in the first place?! You ALREADY put yourself (and others) in danger just by being where you should not be.
Heck, there's roads I avoid in my CAR because I consider them to be unsafe...why would a cyclist not do the same?
My point was that there is no shortage of nutcases who will try to pass you anyway and it's just going to be MORE dangerous for the both of you. Yes, the driver must wait until it's safe to pass, but having the law on your side is not much consolation when you get hit. I maintain that any competent driver will see you no matter where you are in the lane. The difference between the center of the lane and side of the lane is only about 4 feet. When approaching you from behind, you're still going to essentially be in my center of vision.
It's the crappy drivers you have to worry about, as they will ignore you no matter where you are, so you're better off giving them lots of room.
Demon-Xanth
Lifer
California law:
21202. (a) Any person operating a bicycle upon a roadway at a speed less than the normal speed of traffic moving in the same direction at that time shall ride as close as practicable to the right-hand curb or edge of the roadway except under any of the following situations:
(1) When overtaking and passing another bicycle or vehicle proceeding in the same direction.
(2) When preparing for a left turn at an intersection or into a private road or driveway.
(3) When reasonably necessary to avoid conditions (including, but not limited to, fixed or moving objects, vehicles, bicycles, pedestrians, animals, surface hazards, or substandard width lanes) that make it unsafe to continue along the right-hand curb or edge, subject to the provisions of Section 21656. For purposes of this section, a "substandard width lane" is a lane that is too narrow for a bicycle and a vehicle to travel safely side by side within the lane.
(4) When approaching a place where a right turn is authorized.
(b) Any person operating a bicycle upon a roadway of a highway, which highway carries traffic in one direction only and has two or more marked traffic lanes, may ride as near the left-hand curb or edge of that roadway as practicable.
Amended Sec. 4, Ch. 674, Stats. 1996. Effective January 1, 1997.
So "taking the lane" is illegal.
21202. (a) Any person operating a bicycle upon a roadway at a speed less than the normal speed of traffic moving in the same direction at that time shall ride as close as practicable to the right-hand curb or edge of the roadway except under any of the following situations:
(1) When overtaking and passing another bicycle or vehicle proceeding in the same direction.
(2) When preparing for a left turn at an intersection or into a private road or driveway.
(3) When reasonably necessary to avoid conditions (including, but not limited to, fixed or moving objects, vehicles, bicycles, pedestrians, animals, surface hazards, or substandard width lanes) that make it unsafe to continue along the right-hand curb or edge, subject to the provisions of Section 21656. For purposes of this section, a "substandard width lane" is a lane that is too narrow for a bicycle and a vehicle to travel safely side by side within the lane.
(4) When approaching a place where a right turn is authorized.
(b) Any person operating a bicycle upon a roadway of a highway, which highway carries traffic in one direction only and has two or more marked traffic lanes, may ride as near the left-hand curb or edge of that roadway as practicable.
Amended Sec. 4, Ch. 674, Stats. 1996. Effective January 1, 1997.
So "taking the lane" is illegal.
meltdown75
Lifer
:music: here in my car, i feel safest of all :music:
Demon-Xanth
Lifer
There's people in my neighborhood that ride horses on the private roads. They do move over to the side. You have to slow down as to not spook the horse, but it's just like passing a pedestrian (there are no sidewalks, just drainage ditches). But horses and pedestrians stick to small, private roads that you should only be doing 30MPH on anyways.
Demon-Xanth
Lifer
On most of the roads that I was referring to in my previous post, there are no posted speed limits. People slow down out of courtousy. On the major roads, they do twice as fast (except for one numbnut that doesn't do more than 35MPH until the end of a freeway onramp)
WolverineGator
Golden Member
I can't believe there are so many ignorant people on ATOT. I ride my bicycle to work every day on roads and I DON'T own a car. Now, I'm 29 years old and not poor. I own a 225k home and just purchased a 300k condo in Orlando. I mention this because I choose not to own a car (at least for now). I am a member of my city's bicycle and pedestrian advisory board.
Statistically (not my opinion) it is safer for cyclists to ride on the road with traffic.
By law, bicycles are considered vehicles and must act like them. However, I see many cyclists ignoring traffic control devices and many vehicles acting dangerously towards cyclists. It's a two way street and both need to show courtesy to one another.
Cycling has made me a better driver. When I drive out of parking lots/shopping centers, I always look down the sidewalks for ped traffic before checking for auto traffic. I drive defensively and cycle defensively.
In the end, it's the law that matters. I know the rules in my state and I have taken advantage of them when I was struck by a motorist two years ago (ironically I was on the sidewalk). Cycling "dangerously slow" will not hold up in court. Don't fool yourself into thinking it will.
If you feel passionate about this topic, visit your city's pedestrian board, the issues run much deeper than what is being talked about in this thread.
PS If you're going to honk at a cyclist, don't do it when you're right on top of the bike. Rather, honk 50 feet or so back as you are approaching so it won't scare the rider.
Statistically (not my opinion) it is safer for cyclists to ride on the road with traffic.
By law, bicycles are considered vehicles and must act like them. However, I see many cyclists ignoring traffic control devices and many vehicles acting dangerously towards cyclists. It's a two way street and both need to show courtesy to one another.
Cycling has made me a better driver. When I drive out of parking lots/shopping centers, I always look down the sidewalks for ped traffic before checking for auto traffic. I drive defensively and cycle defensively.
In the end, it's the law that matters. I know the rules in my state and I have taken advantage of them when I was struck by a motorist two years ago (ironically I was on the sidewalk). Cycling "dangerously slow" will not hold up in court. Don't fool yourself into thinking it will.
If you feel passionate about this topic, visit your city's pedestrian board, the issues run much deeper than what is being talked about in this thread.
PS If you're going to honk at a cyclist, don't do it when you're right on top of the bike. Rather, honk 50 feet or so back as you are approaching so it won't scare the rider.
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