Cars

[Demon-Xanth]

Note: I've been behind a car doing 15MPH and braking for corners, I treated it like a very large, hard to pass bicycle.

 

[luckysnafu]

Originally posted by: Jzero

Originally posted by: luckysnafu
I think everybody needs to read up on all the bike laws for their state. Bikers have the same rights as cars, and should be treated as such.

No one has the right to obstruct the roadway by going too slow. This is true in NJ and PA and I imagine it's true in all other states. You are obligated to pull to the side and stop so that other vehicles may pass. That's whether you are on 4 wheels or two, powered or unpowered.

At the end of the day there are certain roads where it is simply unsafe for a cyclist to ride. You present a danger to motorists and a danger to yourself. I try to be mindful of cyclists, but it's hard for me to feel sympathy when I'm going 20MPH in a 45MPH zone b/c I am stuck behind a cyclist on a busy 2-lane road with no soft shoulder let alone a bike lane.

As far as I know the laws, bicyclists should be treated AS cars are treated. If you come up to a car going slow, what do you do? You wait until you can SAFELY pass them or they leave the road so you can continue on your way. There is no way in hell that I am going to stop every time a car comes up behind me to let them pass, thats just stupid. If I am on a busy 2 lane road with no center lane or shoulder and a big 18 wheeler is coming, then I will consider pulling over, but not for regular cars.
I agree that there are certain roads that are fairly unsafe for bikers and I try to avoid really bad roads like that. I think when you are following a biker at 20 mph in a 45, you should just relax and chill out. Usually within half a minute or so you will be able to safely pass the biker.
I think one big problem people in cars have is that they are always in such a hurry and are more likely to not care as much about bikers than they should. The roads would be a lot safer for bikers if people werent in such a damn hurry all the time.

 

[Nitemare]

Originally posted by: arcenite

Originally posted by: imtim83
All the bicyclists here what do you all do when you see that a 18 teen wheeler, bus, hummer, or dump truck is about to pass ?

What do you mean what do we do? As long as you're riding where you're supposed to be (i.e. on the side of the road) it's not a problem. A few people were saying "oh I hate how bicyclists think they own the road" yet apparently, people driving think they own the road too.

Bill

They pay a fuel tax which builds the roads, so yes they do own the roads

 

[PingSpike]

Originally posted by: Skoorb

Originally posted by: armatron
I know that bicyclists feel like they 'own' the road, but it gets ridiculous. they need to start picking less traffick'ed (sp) roads... They hold up traffic fairly often where I live when there is a PERFECT sidewalk/bike lane. Main roads are NOT for bicyclists. period.

I've never met one who felt he owned the road. Not only is it illegal for them to ride on the sidewalk, but sidewalks are bumpy/inconsistent and not suitable for riding. I can't imagine you come upon so many cyclists that it actually affects your average day by a significant amount. They are invariably taking up only a foot or two to the side. Let them get their exercise. You should condemn the fat sh*ts driving their vehicles, not the person on the bike who gives a damn about their health.

Heh. Tell that to those three guys that rode side by side in front of me last year, or the two just last week. (both are cases where they just plain refused to move to single file, even when traffic backed up behind them) Most of them are ok and stay to the side...but damn, WTF do those few idiots think they're doing? It'd definately help if more than 10% of the roads around here had a shoulder...

 

[luckysnafu]

Originally posted by: Nitemare

Originally posted by: arcenite

Originally posted by: imtim83
All the bicyclists here what do you all do when you see that a 18 teen wheeler, bus, hummer, or dump truck is about to pass ?

What do you mean what do we do? As long as you're riding where you're supposed to be (i.e. on the side of the road) it's not a problem. A few people were saying "oh I hate how bicyclists think they own the road" yet apparently, people driving think they own the road too.

Bill

They pay a fuel tax which builds the roads, so yes they do own the roads

wow, since when do you "own" the roads by paying a tax???? You dont think that bikerrs have cars too and pay that same tax???? Read the laws, bicyclists should be treated just like cars. Damn there are a lot of stupid, ignorant drivers who have no idea what it's like to ride a bike around busy roads.

 

[PingSpike]

Originally posted by: imtim83

Originally posted by: Demon-Xanth
Most of the roads around my area are steep and twisty, often there is areas where a car can pull off to the side and let others by. Sometimes they're paved (only on the most major roads), most of the time they aren't.

Wow. I see slow things around here like lawn cutting tractors, etc move in the street all the time and there very slow. They don't do that for the cars here.

Thats the thing I will never get. There is sometimes things on the road that are like cars but go really slow and people really never shout at them or whatever. they just pass them. What if the bike is as wide as a car? I wonder if people would still yell ?

A bike isn't as wide as a car though, because its not a car. If they just move way over, everyone wins.

Originally posted by: imtim83
Why don't people get made at those big long trucks that have to go 10 mph less the speed limit sometimes and how slow they start?

Who says I don't? The difference is those trucks lack the capability to do anything about it. They can pull over to the right side of the road and people still aren't going to be able to get around them.

 

[WyteWatt]

Originally posted by: PingSpike

Originally posted by: imtim83

Originally posted by: Demon-Xanth
Most of the roads around my area are steep and twisty, often there is areas where a car can pull off to the side and let others by. Sometimes they're paved (only on the most major roads), most of the time they aren't.

Wow. I see slow things around here like lawn cutting tractors, etc move in the street all the time and there very slow. They don't do that for the cars here.

Thats the thing I will never get. There is sometimes things on the road that are like cars but go really slow and people really never shout at them or whatever. they just pass them. What if the bike is as wide as a car? I wonder if people would still yell ?

A bike isn't as wide as a car though, because its not a car. If they just move way over, everyone wins.

Some bikes are.

 

[cyclistca]

Post like this prove only one thing. That most people that drive should have their driving privileges revoked.

 

[Demon-Xanth]

I'm going to pose another question:
There's someone in a store pushing a cart at a very slow speed, how long will you stay behind them?

I'm willing to bet that even the most avid bicyclists wouldn't last more than five seconds.

 

[luckysnafu]

Originally posted by: Demon-Xanth
I'm going to pose another question:
There's someone in a store pushing a cart at a very slow speed, how long will you stay behind them?

I'm willing to bet that even the most avid bicyclists wouldn't last more than five seconds.

I know I wouldn't last 5 seconds, and I bike all the time. Thing is though, am I putting anybody's life in danger? No, I am not. This is not a good comparison.

 

[Jzero]

Originally posted by: luckysnafu
As far as I know the laws, bicyclists should be treated AS cars are treated. If you come up to a car going slow, what do you do? You wait until you can SAFELY pass them or they leave the road so you can continue on your way. There is no way in hell that I am going to stop every time a car comes up behind me to let them pass, thats just stupid.

The law says you are obligated to do so. It really doesn't matter if you think it's stupid. A motorist going 20 MPH below the posted speed limit is just as dangerous, if not more so, than a cyclist. Both are required to pull over and give way if they are holding up traffic. The law prefers to incovenience the one causing the hold up instead of inconveniencing the many being held up.

You say the law says cyclists should be treated as cars are treated and then you turn around and say the cyclists should not be required to operate under the same rules as the cars. You can't have it both ways.

I think when you are following a biker at 20 mph in a 45, you should just relax and chill out. Usually within half a minute or so you will be able to safely pass the biker.
I think one big problem people in cars have is that they are always in such a hurry and are more likely to not care as much about bikers than they should. The roads would be a lot safer for bikers if people werent in such a damn hurry all the time.

Going 25 MPH below the general flow of traffic is a danger. It doesn't matter if I'm in a hurry or not. If you are going 20 MPH in a 45 MPH zone, YOU are creating a dangerous situation for everyone who is keeping with the flow of traffic. Again, this is the same whether it be a cyclist or a motorist. If you cannot keep up with the flow of traffic YOU are the hazard, not everyone else. YOU are obligated to give way as soon as possible.

 

[Demon-Xanth]

Originally posted by: luckysnafu

Originally posted by: Demon-Xanth
I'm going to pose another question:
There's someone in a store pushing a cart at a very slow speed, how long will you stay behind them?

I'm willing to bet that even the most avid bicyclists wouldn't last more than five seconds.

I know I wouldn't last 5 seconds, and I bike all the time. Thing is though, am I putting anybody's life in danger? No, I am not. This is not a good comparison.

But it irritates the hell out of you, doesn't it?

 

[PingSpike]

Originally posted by: luckysnafu

Originally posted by: Demon-Xanth
I'm going to pose another question:
There's someone in a store pushing a cart at a very slow speed, how long will you stay behind them?

I'm willing to bet that even the most avid bicyclists wouldn't last more than five seconds.

I know I wouldn't last 5 seconds, and I bike all the time. Thing is though, am I putting anybody's life in danger? No, I am not. This is not a good comparison.

Now, what if you were riding a bicycle instead of walking as well. (Lets say this happens in the parking lot) Then what?

 

[luckysnafu]

Originally posted by: Jzero

Originally posted by: luckysnafu
As far as I know the laws, bicyclists should be treated AS cars are treated. If you come up to a car going slow, what do you do? You wait until you can SAFELY pass them or they leave the road so you can continue on your way. There is no way in hell that I am going to stop every time a car comes up behind me to let them pass, thats just stupid.

The law says you are obligated to do so. It really doesn't matter if you think it's stupid. A motorist going 20 MPH below the posted speed limit is just as dangerous, if not more so, than a cyclist. Both are required to pull over and give way if they are holding up traffic. The law prefers to incovenience the one causing the hold up instead of inconveniencing the many being held up.

You say the law says cyclists should be treated as cars are treated and then you turn around and say the cyclists should not be required to operate under the same rules as the cars. You can't have it both ways.

I think when you are following a biker at 20 mph in a 45, you should just relax and chill out. Usually within half a minute or so you will be able to safely pass the biker.
I think one big problem people in cars have is that they are always in such a hurry and are more likely to not care as much about bikers than they should. The roads would be a lot safer for bikers if people werent in such a damn hurry all the time.

Going 25 MPH below the general flow of traffic is a danger. It doesn't matter if I'm in a hurry or not. If you are going 20 MPH in a 45 MPH zone, YOU are creating a dangerous situation for everyone who is keeping with the flow of traffic. Again, this is the same whether it be a cyclist or a motorist. If you cannot keep up with the flow of traffic YOU are the hazard, not everyone else. YOU are obligated to give way as soon as possible.

Have you ever ridden a bike on a crowded road before?

 

[Jzero]

Originally posted by: luckysnafu
Have you ever ridden a bike on a crowded road before?

I'm not that stupid.

Care to address any of my points?

 

[ockky]

i think that alot of you bicyclists are getting confused. Some of you seem to think that the majority of us don't or didn't know that it's the law that you are aloud on the road just as a car is. the confusion i think is that, we do in fact know that, but we just think it's about the dumbest damn law around. I mean, i'd have to be pretty damn stupid to ride a bike down a street with car going 45mph. unless you are pedaling your asses off, you best scoot the hell over

also, when exactly was this law established? does anyone know? i'm betting it was right about the time that cars were 1st being produced

and Finally, all this is coming from one of the few people that consistently drive the speed limit here in ATL. i almost feel sorry for you bikers out there. here in ATL, driving around in my little del sol, going the speed limit is just asking for trouble

 

[luckysnafu]

Originally posted by: Jzero

The law says you are obligated to do so. It really doesn't matter if you think it's stupid. A motorist going 20 MPH below the posted speed limit is just as dangerous, if not more so, than a cyclist. Both are required to pull over and give way if they are holding up traffic. The law prefers to incovenience the one causing the hold up instead of inconveniencing the many being held up.

You say the law says cyclists should be treated as cars are treated and then you turn around and say the cyclists should not be required to operate under the same rules as the cars. You can't have it both ways.

Going 25 MPH below the general flow of traffic is a danger. It doesn't matter if I'm in a hurry or not. If you are going 20 MPH in a 45 MPH zone, YOU are creating a dangerous situation for everyone who is keeping with the flow of traffic. Again, this is the same whether it be a cyclist or a motorist. If you cannot keep up with the flow of traffic YOU are the hazard, not everyone else. YOU are obligated to give way as soon as possible.

So you believe that I, riding my bike 20mph in a 45, should pull over EVERY single time a car is coming up behind to pass me? You cant be serious? I would never make it anywhere, I would always be on the side waiting for people to pass me. Bikers have to obey the same laws as cars, which is why we should be treated like cars. It's obivous we are not though. If i was treated like a car, then cars wouldn't be allowed to pass me on a double yellow, which would be crazy, which is why it is allowed. However, passing a biker should only be done when it is safe, and it is NOT up to the biker to pull OFF the road to let others pass. If i am driving my car on the road, lets say 35 in a 45, you have no legal right to pass me as long as you have a double yellow line. If i am riding my bike 20 in a 35 or higher, i think cars can slow down a little and pass when its safe. You cant honestly say you expect a biker to pull over to let you pass.

 

[Nitemare]

Originally posted by: luckysnafu

Originally posted by: Nitemare

Originally posted by: arcenite

Originally posted by: imtim83
All the bicyclists here what do you all do when you see that a 18 teen wheeler, bus, hummer, or dump truck is about to pass ?

What do you mean what do we do? As long as you're riding where you're supposed to be (i.e. on the side of the road) it's not a problem. A few people were saying "oh I hate how bicyclists think they own the road" yet apparently, people driving think they own the road too.

Bill

They pay a fuel tax which builds the roads, so yes they do own the roads

wow, since when do you "own" the roads by paying a tax???? You dont think that bikerrs have cars too and pay that same tax???? Read the laws, bicyclists should be treated just like cars. Damn there are a lot of stupid, ignorant drivers who have no idea what it's like to ride a bike around busy roads.

There is this thing called a minimum speed limit as well.

Farmers on tractors have the common courtesy to pull over and let congested traffic through. I have yet to see a single bicyclist do this. I'm all in favor of bike lanes and all or even having bikes on roads with wide shoulders, but they are an absolute hazard on some roads.

 

[luckysnafu]

Originally posted by: ockky
i think that alot of you bicyclists are getting confused. Some of you seem to think that the majority of us don't or didn't know that it's the law that you are aloud on the road just as a car is. the confusion i think is that, we do in fact know that, but we just think it's about the dumbest damn law around. I mean, i'd have to be pretty damn stupid to ride a bike down a street with car going 45mph. unless you are pedaling your asses off, you best scoot the hell over

also, when exactly was this law established? does anyone know? i'm betting it was right about the time that cars were 1st being produced

and Finally, all this is coming from one of the few people that consistently drive the speed limit here in ATL. i almost feel sorry for you bikers out there. here in ATL, driving around in my little del sol, going the speed limit is just asking for trouble

Why is it the dumbest law around? If we cant ride on the roads, where can we ride? I enjoy riding to work every morning and home from work in the afternoon, its a great workout and it saves me gas.

I try to stay as far right on the roads I ride as possible, but on some roads there isn't a shoulder so I end up on the road. There is nothing I can do about this, so people are just going to have to get used to it. Where I ride most of the cars that pass me have a lot of respect and will move over and put at least 5-6ft between me and their car, which I appreciate. Others will pass me pretty close, but I have a mirror and can see this happening and leave myself a few feet on the right to move over when this happens.

 

[luckysnafu]

Originally posted by: Nitemare

Originally posted by: luckysnafu

Originally posted by: Nitemare

Originally posted by: arcenite

Originally posted by: imtim83
All the bicyclists here what do you all do when you see that a 18 teen wheeler, bus, hummer, or dump truck is about to pass ?

What do you mean what do we do? As long as you're riding where you're supposed to be (i.e. on the side of the road) it's not a problem. A few people were saying "oh I hate how bicyclists think they own the road" yet apparently, people driving think they own the road too.

Bill

They pay a fuel tax which builds the roads, so yes they do own the roads

wow, since when do you "own" the roads by paying a tax???? You dont think that bikerrs have cars too and pay that same tax???? Read the laws, bicyclists should be treated just like cars. Damn there are a lot of stupid, ignorant drivers who have no idea what it's like to ride a bike around busy roads.

There is this thing called a minimum speed limit as well.

Farmers on tractors have the common courtesy to pull over and let congested traffic through. I have yet to see a single bicyclist do this. I'm all in favor of bike lanes and all or even having bikes on roads with wide shoulders, but they are an absolute hazard on some roads.

AFAIK, there are only minimum speed limits on highways. Please correct me if this is wrong. I agree that on some roads they are a hazard, but sometimes I have to bike on a busy, high speed road. How many tractors do you know that can average 20-25mph on a straight road. I know people who ride road bikes that can easily go 30-35mph on a flat road for a long ways.

 

[ockky]

Originally posted by: luckysnafu

Originally posted by: ockky
i think that alot of you bicyclists are getting confused. Some of you seem to think that the majority of us don't or didn't know that it's the law that you are aloud on the road just as a car is. the confusion i think is that, we do in fact know that, but we just think it's about the dumbest damn law around. I mean, i'd have to be pretty damn stupid to ride a bike down a street with car going 45mph. unless you are pedaling your asses off, you best scoot the hell over

also, when exactly was this law established? does anyone know? i'm betting it was right about the time that cars were 1st being produced

and Finally, all this is coming from one of the few people that consistently drive the speed limit here in ATL. i almost feel sorry for you bikers out there. here in ATL, driving around in my little del sol, going the speed limit is just asking for trouble

Why is it the dumbest law around? If we cant ride on the roads, where can we ride?

The sidewalk friend! when's the last time you actually saw someone walking somewhere? the sidewalk is wideopen for bikes. haul ass on those....just be sure to look both ways before you cross the street

 

[Demon-Xanth]

Originally posted by: luckysnafu

Originally posted by: Jzero

The law says you are obligated to do so. It really doesn't matter if you think it's stupid. A motorist going 20 MPH below the posted speed limit is just as dangerous, if not more so, than a cyclist. Both are required to pull over and give way if they are holding up traffic. The law prefers to incovenience the one causing the hold up instead of inconveniencing the many being held up.

You say the law says cyclists should be treated as cars are treated and then you turn around and say the cyclists should not be required to operate under the same rules as the cars. You can't have it both ways.

Going 25 MPH below the general flow of traffic is a danger. It doesn't matter if I'm in a hurry or not. If you are going 20 MPH in a 45 MPH zone, YOU are creating a dangerous situation for everyone who is keeping with the flow of traffic. Again, this is the same whether it be a cyclist or a motorist. If you cannot keep up with the flow of traffic YOU are the hazard, not everyone else. YOU are obligated to give way as soon as possible.

So you believe that I, riding my bike 20mph in a 45, should pull over EVERY single time a car is coming up behind to pass me? You cant be serious? I would never make it anywhere, I would always be on the side waiting for people to pass me. Bikers have to obey the same laws as cars, which is why we should be treated like cars. It's obivous we are not though. If i was treated like a car, then cars wouldn't be allowed to pass me on a double yellow, which would be crazy, which is why it is allowed. However, passing a biker should only be done when it is safe, and it is NOT up to the biker to pull OFF the road to let others pass. If i am driving my car on the road, lets say 35 in a 45, you have no legal right to pass me as long as you have a double yellow line. If i am riding my bike 20 in a 35 or higher, i think cars can slow down a little and pass when its safe. You cant honestly say you expect a biker to pull over to let you pass.

Okay, 20 in a 35. GREAT! What about <5 in a 55?

Around my area, most bicyclists AREN'T people who live in the area, they see these nice winding roads that seem like they'd have some nice scenic views without considering that they average 500 cars/hour each way on weekends, more on week days. They do set up courses with signs the morning of events (never before), and on difficult sections not only allow people to challenge themselves going up the steep grade a 0.5MPH, but to take the other way around on a road that narrows to the point that there is no lane. Excellent, you just effectively blocked off ALL routes.

Now, if me and a couple friends decided to do the same thing with say... cars. We'd be arrested, and our cars would be confinscated.

Bikes have to follow the same rules as cars, the problem is that they don't. Stop sign? Run it, act like a pedestrian. In a large group approaching a light? If there's already people going through it, ignore the red. Cars waiting for a red light? Just ride up between them. They'll love to have to pass you again and dodge you in between lanes.

 

[PingSpike]

Originally posted by: luckysnafu
So you believe that I, riding my bike 20mph in a 45, should pull over EVERY single time a car is coming up behind to pass me? You cant be serious? I would never make it anywhere, I would always be on the side waiting for people to pass me.

I think he's just saying, it'd be nice if when there were 40 cars behind you and you were holding them all up...if you'd either move over or pull over to the right to let traffic flow.

Bikers have to obey the same laws as cars, which is why we should be treated like cars.
It's obivous we are not though.

If bikes are obviously not cars, they why is it that they have the same laws?

If i was treated like a car, then cars wouldn't be allowed to pass me on a double yellow, which would be crazy, which is why it is allowed. However, passing a biker should only be done when it is safe, and it is NOT up to the biker to pull OFF the road to let others pass. If i am driving my car on the road, lets say 35 in a 45, you have no legal right to pass me as long as you have a double yellow line.

In my state its perfectly legal to pass on a double yellow line. They are merely a suggestion. But regardless, you're kind of changing the parameters of Jzeros point here. If we're trying to compare these things, then yes...you should be going 20mph in your car, not 35 because bikes just don't go that fast. And if you're going up a hill...its gonna be less. So lets say you're driving in a car at an average of 15mph for the comparison.

If i am riding my bike 20 in a 35 or higher, i think cars can slow down a little and pass when its safe. You cant honestly say you expect a biker to pull over to let you pass.

If some one was driving 15mph in front of you on a road with a posted limit of 45mph...would you like for them to pull over? Assume the traffic going the other way makes passing impossible or dangerous.

It just seems like it would be common curteousy...all I'm requesting in you be mindful of other people as well as yourself, keep to the right at all times and pull over if tons of cars build up behind you. (This could happen if an 18wheeler were right behind you)

 

[Jzero]

Originally posted by: luckysnafu
You cant honestly say you expect a biker to pull over to let you pass.

Well, then you can't honestly say you expect a biker to be subject to the same laws and treated the same as cars. You don't actually have to stop in PA, but you are required to move as far over as possible and slow down so that the vehicle overtaking you may pass as quickly as possible.

PA Vehicle Code

§ 3501. Applicability of traffic laws to pedalcycles.
(a) General rule.--Every person riding a pedalcycle upon a roadway shall be granted all of the
rights and shall be subject to all of the duties applicable to the driver of a vehicle by this title, except
as to special provisions in this subchapter and except as to those provisions of this title which by their
nature can have no application.

As I said - some roads are flat-out unsafe for cycling. The choice is to obey the laws and give way or don't use those roads. Using these roads and causing a danger to yourself and others is not supposed to be an option.

 

[luckysnafu]

Laws for the state I ride in

Bicycle Laws of North Carolina

In North Carolina, the bicycle has the legal status of a vehicle. This means that bicyclists have full rights and responsibilities on the roadway and are subject to the regulations governing the operation of a motor vehicle. North Carolina traffic laws require bicyclists to:

* Ride on the right in the same direction as other traffic
* Obey all traffic signs and signals
* Use hand signals to communicate intended movements
* Equip their bicycles with a front lamp visible from 300 feet and a rear reflector that is visible from a distance of 200 feet when riding at night.

In addition, the Child Bicycle Safety Act of 2001 requires that:

* All bicycle operators under 16 years of age must wear a bicycle helmet on public roads, public paths and public rights-of-way
* All child passengers under 40 pounds or 40 inches must be seated and secured in a child seat or a bicycle trailer.

Legal Issues Related to Bicycling
Laws pertaining to the operation of a bicycle vary from state to state. Below are three areas of North Carolina law that need clarification.

* Bicycling on Interstate or fully controlled, limited access highways, such as beltlines, is prohibited by policy, unless otherwise specified by action of the Board of Transportation. Currently, the only exception to the policy is the US 17 bridge over the Chowan River between Chowan and Bertie Counties.
* There is no law that requires bicyclists to ride single file, nor is there a law that gives cyclists the right to ride two or more abreast. It is important to ride responsibly and courteously, so that cars may pass safely.
* There is no law that prohibits wearing headphones when riding a bicycle; however, it is not recommended. It is important to use all your senses to ensure your safety when riding in traffic.