I understand what you mean... it is not that you do not believe it happened, or that you cannot understand the reasoning behind it... it is just that when you see the numbers, and the intention behind it... it is like your mind cannot comprehend it... kinda like ... well, for me it is trying to imagine space being infinite, I hear about it and read about it... but when I try to get my head around it and actually imagine it... I cannot.
I grew up in an area where there were many holocaust survivors... tatooed arms, dead kids and spouses and many tales to tell. It helped me get a grasp on things that no book or museum ever could.
I grew up in an area where there were many holocaust survivors... tatooed arms, dead kids and spouses and many tales to tell. It helped me get a grasp on things that no book or museum ever could.
A couple of things come to mind in reading this statement. First of all, this didn't happen in the information age. There was no internet, no 24 hour news channel, etc. so what was happening in a distant corner of the world was not readily apparent to everyone else. I am sure there were some who either knew, or had suspicions, but unfortunatly many times human nature is to simply look out for ourselves. Secondly, if you are talking about the German populace stopping it - how? In the time frame between WWI and WWII, much effort was expended by the German government in disarming the populace, with considerable attention being focused on political opponents and other "undesirables". (link) Also, this was their duly appointed government taking these actions, without full disclosure of what was being done.
That, and also everything was not so black and white.
For example, there are records of many soldiers, including high-ranking officers, that fought for Vermacht, that were of Jewish descent.
Also, Hitler was a charismatic leader that led Germany from ruins to power and prosperity, so it's easy to understand why people believed and followed him.
Jews were promised that they would be allowed to survive the war in ghettos and that would be able to go and live in Palestine once the war is over, and until the very end many believed that when they were shipped from ghettos to camps they were not sent to die.
Also, concentration camps were invented by Russians, namely by Trotsky.
It's like trying to comprehend the infinite bounds of the universe. But 6 mln jews were killed so go from there.
You are partly correct in that people did turn a blind eye however it WAS in fact known the Nazis were running full steam ahead with their "final solution." It was printed during the war years in none other than the New York Times. I first became aware of this a few years ago courtesy of a show on the History Channel.
Here is more on the subject for anyone interested in further reading. Unlike what most people think this did not suddenly come out of the blue when the camps were first widely given press thanks to their liberation by Allied troops.
Reading books and being there in person while it happened are two different things. You may understand the details, but I doubt you can say you truely understand the "horror" of it all without it happening in front of your eyes. That would be like me saying "I've read hundreds of books on shooting a man. I know what it is like." No, I don't, and I won't ever claim to know until I actually shoot a man. No amount of reading can prepare you for the real thing, so don't bullshit me about "I have a firm grasp as to the horrors" because more than likely, you don't.
FallenHero, somewhat off subject your post reminds me of the slew of absurd war video games claiming lately it's "almost like being there" or "realistic action." Some damn game cannot ever and will not ever be able to recreate the horror, confusion and stench of real combat. Why in the hell would we want it to? It's a slap in the face to real veterans in my opinion for game makers to make these claims which trivialize war and death.
As for what Ausm said I think you both have valid points but he is saying that he has a better understanding than some kid who just took high school history and/or watched Saving Private Ryan and think they know what combat is like. Neither one of your viewpoints are necessarily wrong.
Watch Hotel Rwanda..... it brings home the universal truth.... Humanities capacity for cruelty is matched only by their capacity for fear.
I'm Jewish BTW... my grandfathers family was completely wiped out... my girlfriends grandmother wears a number on her arm... if it weren't for these connections... I would have a hard time comprehending that such horror was real.
the bbc site is pretty amazing. they have a flash animation of the timeline of persecution and genocide under the nazis.
it started out as persecution and hatred... but that had been bubbling under the surface since Luther and the protestant reformation. I don't think anyone thought modern humanity was capable of genocide on the level it got to. i think the start of the war was the turning point where "concentration camps" for prisoners turned into "death camps" for the extermination of millions.
it started out as persecution and hatred... but that had been bubbling under the surface since Luther and the protestant reformation. I don't think anyone thought modern humanity was capable of genocide on the level it got to. i think the start of the war was the turning point where "concentration camps" for prisoners turned into "death camps" for the extermination of millions.
I think the Jewish influence in the US media also pounds the point home more than you'd hear about it otherwise. More people were killed by Stalin but you don't see many ex-Soviets running US networks and pushing for shows that constantly remind you of that fact. The people telling the story will tend to tell you their side of the story.
Along the same lines, many Native Americans were wiped out by the colonists that founded this country, but you don't hear about that much. You only hear about Thanksgiving where everything was fine and dandy. The fact that not many Native Americans have influence in the US media prevents their story from being told the way they want you to hear it.
The media is your view to our history and the outside world. Those that control the media you watch will determine what you can see. I don't know about you, but when I see something on US TV about the middle east, I see people in headscarves yelling and running around in the dirt.
You rarely see images of happiness and prosperity like this:
this
Along the same lines, many Native Americans were wiped out by the colonists that founded this country, but you don't hear about that much. You only hear about Thanksgiving where everything was fine and dandy. The fact that not many Native Americans have influence in the US media prevents their story from being told the way they want you to hear it.
The media is your view to our history and the outside world. Those that control the media you watch will determine what you can see. I don't know about you, but when I see something on US TV about the middle east, I see people in headscarves yelling and running around in the dirt.
You rarely see images of happiness and prosperity like this:
this
How the hell is this relevant to the OP at all?
Spew your nonsense trolling conspiracy theory elsewhere...
"Jewish influence in the media" WTF are you talking about?... Asshat moron.
-Max
Spew your nonsense trolling conspiracy theory elsewhere...
"Jewish influence in the media" WTF are you talking about?... Asshat moron.
-Max
If you ever visit Los Angeles, go to the Museum of Tolerance. That will help you comprehend it, imho. As to the reason why it was done, I can't help you there.
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Added link.
DougK62
Diamond Member
- Mar 28, 2001
- 8,035
- 6
- 81
Originally posted by: Darkstar757
NakaNaka I tottally understand where you are commng from. I could not imagine all that death I feel the exact same way about slavery and the tsunami victims.
And hundreds of other events in the past, present, and probable future.
Apparently you must have missed the last 75 years of the US media. It's no conspiracy.
And if you don't like someone's point, you're supposed to refute their point. You're not supposed to personally attack them like you just did.
If you correctly read my post, you'd see that I'm not blaming it on Jews. I'm blaming it on the lack of ex-soviets in the US media.
Whoever is in charge, you're going to see what they feel they want you to see. It's not a conspiracy, you're just seeing their decisions.
I think what he's trying to say is, the holocaust is always "in your face" here in the USA; If Hollywood's not reminding you about it, the media will. Try living elsewhere (outside USA) and they won't put as much "weight" about what happened as they do here in the US. That also doesn't mean that it's regarded as an insignificant event elsewhere.
And you would be an idiot too then....
But hey I understand, I'm tired of hearing about Rape, Murder, the Tsunami, war, terrorism... and above all 9/11.... sheesh it happened get over it... I don't feel like hearing about it anymore... I wish those people who control the media would just shut up already.
So annoying... sheesh.
Stalin's purges had an estimated victim toll of around 1,400,000. that's not quite the nazi holocaust.
the Native American "genocide" wasn't 50 years ago.
the Native American "genocide" wasn't 50 years ago.
Exactly. For me it's not annoying because it's always being talked about; it's annoying because you don't hear as much about anything else but it.
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Idiot? Me? Why thanky!
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