Can someone help me understand thinking that obesity is ok?

[SlitheryDee]

You know, you're right.

I'm going to go tell my coworker that I think he's fat.

I'm sure it will end well for all parties involved.

"Putting on a little weight there bud". is something I've heard people say to others quite often, including to me back in the day. The correct response would be "Yeah I know. I probably need to go on a diet soon".

Then the conversation can turn to other things, but the person knows that people actually have noted their weight gain. Of course they already knew they were gaining weight, but having the confirmation come from outside themselves has more impact than just their own opinion likely would.

 

[artemicion]

Shaming people does often cause them to change their lifestyle though. Sometimes the most hurtful things people can say to you are the things that you know are true. Realizing that other people do indeed notice whatever it is is important in motivating you to change. If I'm slowly getting fat, I can tell myself that people don't notice or care so long as they never mention it. Someone mentioning it makes me feel shame, but it's a necessary shame. It's what causes my mind to self-correct from the delusion I was building about myself. It causes me to suddenly snap back into focus and see things more objectively. That's going to hurt, because I was avoiding focusing on my weight for a reason. The thought carries with it the idea of all the work and displeasure I'm going to have to put myself through to correct it. It also forces me to see what I've become as others see me. It's all wrapped up in my feelings of self-worth and the kind of person I am. Everyone wants to think that they are strong willed and worthy people, but how can they really be if they allowed themselves to become obese?

I think that shaming people can be a good thing. Not mean spirited shaming, but just communicating that we are noticing changes and are forming opinions about them. There is a subset of society that thinks that we should never say anything that makes a person feel bad about themselves, or at least it feels like that's their platform. Everyone should be considered perfect however they are. I don't think that does anyone any good though.

I don't disagree with you. My post was very specifically and directly focused on Eleven's posts in this thread.

 

[GeekDrew]

I think that shaming people can be a good thing. Not mean spirited shaming, but just communicating that we are noticing changes and are forming opinions about them.

That's an extremely subjective position - just like mine is. Someone telling me that they notice I've put on weight will be catastrophic to my ability to deal with anything for the rest of the day (which just makes me more angry/depressed, which just makes me that much hungrier). Which, by the way, is no different to me than someone telling me that I look like I've lost weight, when I know damn well that I haven't.

There is a subset of society that thinks that we should never say anything that makes a person feel bad about themselves, or at least it feels like that's their platform. Everyone should be considered perfect however they are. I don't think that does anyone any good though.

Those two things are not related to the other. That I'm not going to call out someone about something in no way means that I consider them perfect, or that I think that anyone else (including that person) should consider them perfect.

 

[TechBoyJK]

You know, you're right.

I'm going to go tell my coworker that I think he's fat.

I'm sure it will end well for all parties involved.

If he orders a large pizza and devours it without shame.. maybe say something like 'holy shit bro, that's disgusting'.

 

[Mxylplyx]

All the fat haters need to be honest with themselves. Some of you are trying to frame your hate and ridicule directed towards fat people as some sort of public service you are doing them, which we of course all know is bullshit. That's like saying you used to push around the weak kids in grade school to encourage them to toughen up.

If you derive enjoyment from hating on someone else due to their own personal faults, you most certainly have your own form of personal insecurity, or "self hate" as Moonbeam would describe it, that you try to soothe by directing your self hate towards someone else whose failings are generally indefensible. Probably something you should personally reflect on to determine why you feel the need to do it.

With that said, I do get a sense of self-righteousness watching Hoarders and My 600lb life and other shows like that, so I probably have a little personal reflection to do myself.

 

[TechBoyJK]

All the fat haters need to be honest with themselves. Some of you are trying to frame your hate and ridicule directed towards fat people as some sort of public service you are doing them, which we of course all know is bullshit. That's like saying you used to push around the weak kids in grade school to encourage them to toughen up.

If you derive enjoyment from hating on someone else due to their own personal faults, you most certainly have your own form of personal insecurity, or "self hate" as Moonbeam would describe it, that you try to soothe by directing your self hate towards someone else whose failings are generally indefensible. Probably something you should personally reflect on to determine why you feel the need to do it.

With that said, I do get a sense of self-righteousness watching Hoarders and My 600lb life and other shows like that, so I probably have a little personal reflection to do myself.

Well, do you agree that rejecting #fatAcceptance is not the same as being a 'fat hater'?

 

[QueBert]

But he deserves two.5 seats on public transportation! Eating filth and sitting on your ass all day isn't a choice! #haes #effyourbeautystandards

Rofl. So many angry fatties.

I dunno about that, the "fatties" I know are all extremely happy people. Santa's a perfect example. I know a lot of skinny people who are angry at everything.

 

[Mxylplyx]

Well, do you agree that rejecting #fatAcceptance is not the same as being a 'fat hater'?

I would agree with that, but I think it's likely that the push for "fat acceptance" is a likely counter reaction to the unchecked hate and ridicule hurled towards fat people. If gays were fully accepted as equals a few generations ago, do you think there would still be gay pride parades? I highly doubt it.

Fat people feeling like they are discriminated against and targeted for ridicule likely entrenches their obesity as part of their own personal identity, and therefore becomes more to them than just the unpleasant physical consequence of their own bad habits.

 

[TechBoyJK]

I dunno about that, the "fatties" I know are all extremely happy people. Santa's a perfect example. I know a lot of skinny people who are angry at everything.

Most obese people I know project a happy life; but it's a very transparent facade.

 

[QueBert]

Most obese people I know project a happy life; but it's a very transparent facade.

No no no they're happy, I hang out with some. We drink and they are a pure joy to be around. You cannot put on that sort of act. They also tend to be kind and very pleasant people to be around. John Candy's a perfect example. You're don't give 2 fucks about trying to help anyone so please save that shit, you're the transparent one here. I would respect you if you were honest and just admitted you're a bully who's disgusted by looking at fat people.

You remind me of the guy up the street from me who whoops his son because he wants him to be less of a punk when he grows up. He says it's tough love, but it's anything but love.

 

[Remobz]

A big part of this debate is where we draw the line on "fat".

I think most fat haters are thinking morbidly obese people (~350lb+) and fat defenders are thinking more like BMI 30-40 (fat/overweight, but not detrimental to society).

I am about 40 pounds overweight. I can still see my balls when I look down so my belly is not that bad as many out there.

Funny thing is that my blood is healthy and never have cholesterol or sugar problems unlike many much skinnier friends and family members.


Weird eh?

 

[Mai72]

I saw a CNN news report on obesity and our military. The military had to let go of 10% of new recruits because they were obese. The first time this had ever taken place. In 5 years it's estimated that nearly 50% of new recruits are going to be denied entry into the US military because they are going to be too fat.

Obesity in America has the potential to be a national disaster on so many levels, not just with home defense. More and more children are being diagnosed with type 2 diabities at a young age. By the time they reach 30 many young adults will suffer from other ailments like high blood pressure, heart disease and joint issues.

 

[Mai72]

I am about 40 pounds overweight. I can still see my balls when I look down so my belly is not that bad as many out there.

Funny thing is that my blood is healthy and never have cholesterol or sugar problems unlike many much skinnier friends and family members.


Weird eh?

Maybe. But, as you get older those extra 40 pounds can easily turn into 60, 80 or even more. Putting off weight can become a chore as we age. This in turn can lead to heart issues and type 2 diabities. This disease is hardly talked about, yet it claims the lives of so many people. I know someone w/ type 2 and its not fun.

 

[Mai72]

No no no they're happy, I hang out with some. We drink and they are a pure joy to be around. You cannot put on that sort of act. They also tend to be kind and very pleasant people to be around. John Candy's a perfect example. You're don't give 2 fucks about trying to help anyone so please save that shit, you're the transparent one here. I would respect you if you were honest and just admitted you're a bully who's disgusted by looking at fat people.

You remind me of the guy up the street from me who whoops his son because he wants him to be less of a punk when he grows up. He says it's tough love, but it's anything but love.

And I know fat people who are nasty, rude and miserable. I also know skinny people who are loving, joyful and happy. Your point?

 

[purbeast0]

I saw a CNN news report on obesity and our military. The military had to let go of 10% of new recruits because they were obese. The first time this had ever taken place. In 5 years it's estimated that nearly 50% of new recruits are going to be denied entry into the US military because they are going to be too fat.

Obesity in America has the potential to be a national disaster on so many levels, not just with home defense. More and more children are being diagnosed with type 2 diabities at a young age. By the time they reach 30 many young adults will suffer from other ailments like high blood pressure, heart disease and joint issues.

its cause kids now come home from school and hop on their computer or xbox live and sit around. they don't go outside anymore and "play". it's incredible how you can drive around a neighborhood now a days around 4pm and you don't even see kids running around. i remember when we were young, after school we'd be outside until like dinner time and sometimes after until dark.

now in the summer time it's the same thing. we used to be out from the time we got up until it was dark outside. every day 7 days a week for the most part. you'll be lucky to see more than 2-3 kids outside on any given day now a days. but i blame that on the parents too because every parent is now super protective and helicopter parenting.

they had a local woman recently, and i believe it went national, who had CPS called on her twice because she let her kids who are 10 and 6 walk alone to/home a park, and the cops picked them up twice. when i was a kid i walked to/from school every day from when i was 7 to 13 (except in bad weather). yeah i was with someone older than me but sometimes it was just 10 year olds walking with us. it was a 1/2 mile each way too.

it's retarded how scared/lazy everyone is becoming.

 

[GeekDrew]

And I know fat people who are nasty, rude and miserable. I also know skinny people who are loving, joyful and happy. Your point?

His point was that neither side is absolute.

 

[SlitheryDee]

That's an extremely subjective position - just like mine is. Someone telling me that they notice I've put on weight will be catastrophic to my ability to deal with anything for the rest of the day (which just makes me more angry/depressed, which just makes me that much hungrier). Which, by the way, is no different to me than someone telling me that I look like I've lost weight, when I know damn well that I haven't.

You have to examine why it makes you feel like that though. Most likely it's because it would be true. You had been walking around knowing it, but actively avoiding thinking about it. I know this feeling intimately. Everyone sees you, they're just too polite to say what it is they are seeing. Deep in your heart you know what you look like, but you bury it and avoid it rather than dealing with it directly.

Someone coming right out and saying it feels like they unearthed a deep, dark secret you've been keeping and exposed it for everyone to scrutinize. It doesn't matter that this is quite senseless. Clearly you can't "hide" how much you weigh, but if no one ever demonstrates that they see it, what goes on in your head is very close to that feeling.

That's why it feels so harsh when someone brings it up. That's why your first urge is to deflect all the negative emotions that suddenly arise from it into the belief that they have done something "rude" to make you feel this way. Most of that was already inside you, and not something they were projecting onto you with their relatively innocuous comment. They didn't shame you so much as you were already ashamed and hiding it from yourself. That's something you have to deal with head on to get rid of it.

 

[Mai72]

its cause kids now come home from school and hop on their computer or xbox live and sit around. they don't go outside anymore and "play". it's incredible how you can drive around a neighborhood now a days around 4pm and you don't even see kids running around. i remember when we were young, after school we'd be outside until like dinner time and sometimes after until dark.

now in the summer time it's the same thing. we used to be out from the time we got up until it was dark outside. every day 7 days a week for the most part. you'll be lucky to see more than 2-3 kids outside on any given day now a days. but i blame that on the parents too because every parent is now super protective and helicopter parenting.

they had a local woman recently, and i believe it went national, who had CPS called on her twice because she let her kids who are 10 and 6 walk alone to/home a park, and the cops picked them up twice. when i was a kid i walked to/from school every day from when i was 7 to 13 (except in bad weather). yeah i was with someone older than me but sometimes it was just 10 year olds walking with us. it was a 1/2 mile each way too.

it's retarded how scared/lazy everyone is becoming.

I remember those days. My friends and I would hook a milk crate to the light pole and play street basketball all day. Or football, baseball and even dodgeball. The point is we got out. It was an awesome feeling to be playing hard outside. and then come home to dinner.

I agree that parents today are making it so much worse for their children. I think some of it has to do with the media. It's nothing but negative crap. Watch it long enough and you'll start to think the world is going to hell. Its not. Most people are actually very nice. The world is an awesome place. This is why I try to limit news consumption to 1-2 hours a week.

 

[GeekDrew]

You have to examine why it makes you feel like that though. Most likely it's because it would be true. You had been walking around knowing it, but actively avoiding thinking about it. I know this feeling intimately. Everyone sees you, they're just too polite to say what it is they are seeing. Deep in your heart you know what you look like, but you bury it and avoid it rather than dealing with it directly.

Someone coming right out and saying it feels like they unearthed a deep, dark secret you've been keeping and exposed it for everyone to scrutinize. It doesn't matter that this is quite senseless. Clearly you can't "hide" how much you weigh, but if no one ever demonstrates that they see it, what goes on in your head is very close to that feeling.

That's why it feels so harsh when someone brings it up. That's why your first urge is to deflect all the negative emotions that suddenly arise from it into the belief that they have done something "rude" to make you feel this way. Most of that was already inside you, and not something they were projecting onto you with their relatively innocuous comment. They didn't shame you so much as you were already ashamed and hiding it from yourself. That's something you have to deal with head on to get rid of it.

You, sir, are full of shit. I know why it makes me feel that way, and yes, it's because I'm ashamed of being fat. I don't need to dig "deep in my heart" because I'm acutely aware of it, every second of every day. It's not a deep, dark secret, from me or from anyone else. I'm not oblivious to it, and I'm not so delusional as to think that others are unaware.

It is rude, but nice attempt at trying to justify being an asshole.

 

[Nograts]

I saw a CNN news report on obesity and our military. The military had to let go of 10% of new recruits because they were obese. The first time this had ever taken place. In 5 years it's estimated that nearly 50% of new recruits are going to be denied entry into the US military because they are going to be too fat.

Obesity in America has the potential to be a national disaster on so many levels, not just with home defense. More and more children are being diagnosed with type 2 diabities at a young age. By the time they reach 30 many young adults will suffer from other ailments like high blood pressure, heart disease and joint issues.

About 30% that do make it through have medical profiles preventing them from things like running or doing a lot of types of exercise. I end up seeing about 1 in 10 leave the service after 6 months, not even making it out of training, let alone serving in a war, and they get paid for the rest of their lives.

You're absolutely right and it's terrifying from a defense standpoint. This is from the horses mouth and also interesting to watch.

 

[TechBoyJK]

No no no they're happy, I hang out with some. We drink and they are a pure joy to be around. You cannot put on that sort of act. They also tend to be kind and very pleasant people to be around. John Candy's a perfect example. You're don't give 2 fucks about trying to help anyone so please save that shit, you're the transparent one here. I would respect you if you were honest and just admitted you're a bully who's disgusted by looking at fat people.

You remind me of the guy up the street from me who whoops his son because he wants him to be less of a punk when he grows up. He says it's tough love, but it's anything but love.

No.

I love John Candy btw. Who's Harry Crumb was my favorite movie for a long time. young Shawnee Smith ftw!

 

[SlitheryDee]

You, sir, are full of shit. I know why it makes me feel that way, and yes, it's because I'm ashamed of being fat. I don't need to dig "deep in my heart" because I'm acutely aware of it, every second of every day. It's not a deep, dark secret, from me or from anyone else. I'm not oblivious to it, and I'm not so delusional as to think that others are unaware.

It is rude, but nice attempt at trying to justify being an asshole.

You don't understand. I know this because I experienced it. I was also acutely aware that I was overweight, but that isn't the same thing as having someone else tell me. It hurts when someone else says it, even couched in the most delicate of terms. Just because it hurts doesn't mean it's bad though. It took several instances of my weight coming up in conversation in addition to my own knowledge of my condition to wake me up, but I did eventually wake up.

People think that if someone doesn't immediately go out and get a gym membership the first time someone brings up their weight, then that means that shaming them about it does no good. That just isn't true. No matter what they say to your face; whether they seem to ignore it, get hostile, joke about it, or whatever, they'll go home and think about it on their own time and it will be a contributing factor in their eventual decision. It may be a small part of it, but most things we do are the culmination of many small stimuli anyway. It just isn't as clear in most other cases.

I'm not full of shit. I'll admit that I can't say my experience is the same as yours though.

 

[Remobz]

No.

I love John Candy btw. Who's Harry Crumb was my favorite movie for a long time. young Shawnee Smith ftw!

John candy, Chris farley and John belushi to name a few. I miss those guys

 

[GeekDrew]

I'm not full of shit. I'll admit that I can't say my experience is the same as yours though.

You're not full of shit, only within the bounds of your specific experience. What worked for you has no bearing on me whatsoever, because I'm a different person than you are. I'm only correct within the bounds of my specific experience. You're encouraging people to shame others, and I'm asserting that it's catastrophic to do so. Is there any middle ground? I don't see any.

 

[TechBoyJK]

You don't understand. I know this because I experienced it. I was also acutely aware that I was overweight, but that isn't the same thing as having someone else tell me. It hurts when someone else says it, even couched in the most delicate of terms. Just because it hurts doesn't mean it's bad though. It took several instances of my weight coming up in conversation in addition to my own knowledge of my condition to wake me up, but I did eventually wake up.

People think that if someone doesn't immediately go out and get a gym membership the first time someone brings up their weight, then that means that shaming them about it does no good. That just isn't true. No matter what they say to your face; whether they seem to ignore it, get hostile, joke about it, or whatever, they'll go home and think about it on their own time and it will be a contributing factor in their eventual decision. It may be a small part of it, but most things we do are the culmination of many small stimuli anyway. It just isn't as clear in most other cases.

I'm not full of shit. I'll admit that I can't say my experience is the same as yours though.

It takes a lot of tact to shame someone's behavior without it becoming abusive, but the hope is that the person will have an epiphany, look at themselves in the mirror and say 'this is not ok'. Shame is pretty much the driving force behind someone finally admitting being obese is not ok.

it's not easy. Most people, by nature of the situation, are going to be resistant to hearing it, but when there's people telling them the exact opposite, that it 'is ok' to be obese, it makes it ever harder for the person to have that needed epiphany.

Here's a great example of when you have a friend who lets you know it's not ok to be obese, but then helps you everystep of the way and gives support.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M0UeRh7huME&feature=youtu.be