Can someone help me understand thinking that obesity is ok?

[artemicion]

What I try and be vocal about is 'fat acceptance' in general. To me, this is on par with 'alcoholism acceptance' or 'self-harm acceptance'. It's absolutely delusional and bad for society.

TBH, "fat acceptance" is an ambiguous concept because a lot of people interpret it differently.

Am I practicing "fat acceptance" if my attitude is: I understand the health consequences for my weight, I'm trying to control my weight about as much as I'm willing, I understand the societal impact of my health, and I am OK with my lifestyle?

There are VERY FEW people who think being fat is okay, health-wise. It's almost a straw man argument. So I don't think there's a substantial "fat acceptance" movement there.

There are a lot of people who think being fat is okay, appearance wise. I don't really care one way or another about this form of "fat acceptance." I don't think it's necessarily a bad message to teach kids that they shouldn't stress about their appearance to please others, so long as they understand that the health consequences are an additional factor to consider when making diet/exercise choices.

 

[PricklyPete]

Could you define "fat acceptance"? It's a bullshit term that has a different meaning to many people, and can change in context. Do you mean that fat people should be shamed for every moment they're awake, or merely when they're eating, or should they just be reminded on an hourly basis that they're disgusting? Or is your definition along the lines of something more tame, like "stop encouraging people to be fat"?







If you think that's outrageous, or even remotely unusual, you should really look closely at nutrition tables. Of everything in the grocery I usually go to (which is a Kroger in Ohio), I suspect that the things that are not what I would describe as "catastrophically bad for everyone" wouldn't even complete fill a single aisle.

Fat acceptance is pretty self explanatory. Accepting fat as normal, ok way to live your life. It is not and is not healthy. I also don't think accepting chain cigarette smoking or alcoholism either as a society. We should not be striving to make people feel ok about their unhealthy choices. Hating fat acceptance does not equal shaming a fat person. It means not actively making them feel ok about their poor choices.

Does your super market not have a produce section? Does it not sell beans and brown rice? You don't need to buy all of that processed food...but many do because it tastes "good" and is easy. Stick to the outside ring of a grocery store.

 

[GeekDrew]

It means not actively making them feel ok about their poor choices.

So, the latter then: "stop encouraging people to be fat." I completely agree.

Does your super market not have a produce section? Does it not sell beans and brown rice? You don't need to buy all of that processed food...but many do because it tastes "good" and is easy. Stick to the outside ring of a grocery store.

Sure, it has some produce - most groceries do. I suppose when I was referring to aisles, I had mentally contemplated the items that are generally in an aisle, so not produce, meats, or dairy.

Also, I'm not arguing for processed foods. Really. I hate them, because they're a nutritional trainwreck. I nonetheless still eat them - particularly SmartOnes frozen meals - because I need something that takes no time to prepare.

 

[edro]

Being fat is similar to a drug addiction (alcohol, tobacco or hard drugs), but much worse.
Food is easier to obtain, is required for survival and it not illegal.

Fat shamers need to understand that when you have a genetic predisposition for fat retention and eating, and any sort of emotional issues, it is extremely hard to be fit.

The worst fat shamers are naturally skinny who eat whatever they want, and assume all fat people must be eating 15,000 cal a day and not exercising.

 

[Nograts]

I do not hate fat people. I do hate fat acceptance. People should not accept being overweight and unhealthy. People need to pay attention to what they are eating. While not the only problem, sugar is one of the main culprits.

My wife was in a hurry and decided to pick up some groceries at Target. She is usually pretty good at looking at ingredients, but just threw a bottle of Wish-Bone Italian dressing in the basket without looking at it... I mean how much can you screw up Italian dressing? Turns out a lot. As soon as I put a fork full of lettuce in my mouth, I could taste the sugar. This in something that is sold to be put on otherwise healthy food. I literally spit the lettuce out and shortly there after threw out the bottle of dressing after looking at the nutrition... 4 grams of sugar per serving (2 tbsps). Are you sh!tting me!

Few days ago I grabbed some motts applesauce for a quick snack. Had a good sized bowl, probably 2 cups or so. I mean it's apples right? I eat apples all the time. Glanced down at the sugar content and felt nauseous. I forget what it was but I had just had 4 servings of it.

So.. on that note I'm in the market for a new applesauce lol. Also some kids juice products have as much as a coke. Root beer? Don't get me started.

 

[TechBoyJK]

So, are you telling them that, or just thinking it to yourself (I'm not sure whether that falls under your opposition to public shaming, or your acceptance of pointing out terrible behavior)? If you're actually telling them this, do you think that they will be caught by surprise by this new and noteworthy information? Have you ever considered asking why, rather than assuming that telling them something they've undoubtedly heard numerous times will somehow make a difference this specific occasion?

Since you're comparing obesity to alcoholism, the same questions apply there. Both have underlying factors in many (if not most) cases. Why are you hellbent on correcting the symptom rather than the problem?

Its not that I'm "hellbent on correcting the symptom rather than the problem" it's that I already know all problems are unique.

Just like if an alcoholic keeps drinking and drinking.. you need to look at why they're drinking in the first place.

But that's the point, if you're touting fat acceptance or alcoholism acceptance, you're telling the person that their behavior is ok. And if you think their behavior is ok, you're not even acknowledging a problem to address.

Being obese is not ok. Having aids is not ok. Having diabetes is not ok.

What's also not ok is convicing someone with aids, diabetes, obesity that 'it's ok' and they should just sit back and 'be who they are'. No, if you know someone with diabetes that isn't addressing it or acknowledging it as a problem, they have a serious f'n issue.

 

[PricklyPete]

So, the latter then: "stop encouraging people to be fat." I completely agree.

Exactly. No need to shame, just don't actively participate in making overweight people feel ok with their state.

For instance, my youngest sister has gone through a particularly stressful part of her life and during that time period (couple years), she let herself go. She is not obese, but is overweight and not happy about it.

I would never shame her and I actively encourage her eating better (share recipes) and exercising (I just ran a marathon with her at Big Sur). What I don't do is tell her that she is fine just the way she is. I don't tell her that everyone is overweight these days, so no biggie. Instead I tell her she is doing really well when she choses to eat something healthy or gets out and exercises.

 

[GeekDrew]

Its not that I'm "hellbent on correcting the symptom rather than the problem" it's that I already know all problems are unique.

Just like if an alcoholic keeps drinking and drinking.. you need to look at why they're drinking in the first place.

But that's the point, if you're touting fat acceptance or alcoholism acceptance, you're telling the person that their behavior is ok. And if you think their behavior is ok, you're not even acknowledging a problem to address.

Being obese is not ok. Having aids is not ok. Having diabetes is not ok.

What's also not ok is convicing someone with aids, diabetes, obesity that 'it's ok' and they should just sit back and 'be who they are'. No, if you know someone with diabetes that isn't addressing it or acknowledging it as a problem, they have a serious f'n issue.

OK, so how do we stop those lunatics who are touting fat acceptance, without further compounding the issues that fat people are already facing?

This is why I said much earlier that every situation must be evaluated on a case-by-case basis. It will do nobody any good whatsoever to tell them that what they're doing is wrong and they should feel bad for doing it, unless you correct or at least ease the underlying reason for it.

 

[Nograts]

OK, so how do we stop those lunatics who are touting fat acceptance, without further compounding the issues that fat people are already facing?

This is why I said much earlier that every situation must be evaluated on a case-by-case basis. It will do nobody any good whatsoever to tell them that what they're doing is wrong and they should feel bad for doing it, unless you correct or at least ease the underlying reason for it.

Maybe you'd have an idea since you're obese? The lunatics shouting fat acceptance are being supported by *gasp* the fat people. Not too many skinny people raving about fat acceptance and "health at every size" (LOL!)

That's why you get shit like fatpeoplehate on reddit, that has 150k subscribers bashing the fat people.

 

[SlitheryDee]

It's all about their attitude for me. If they're REALLY ok with being obese, fine. If they're essentially putting up a front to hide their dissatisfaction with their body, then I have a problem with it. Some people would rather the whole world change it's opinion of fat people than put forth the effort to not be fat. If being obese is suddenly ok, then they get to be accepted for what they currently look like with no further work at all on their part. That attitude is lazy and dishonest IMO. That's not the whole story though.

I look at it this way. I love food. I fucking LOVE it. Right now I watch what I eat very closely, and I'm not fat. I'm always hungry and I always feel like I'm missing out on a big part of life though. I long to reach a point in my life where I can just eat what I want with no worries about what it's doing to my appearance. If I can pull that off I've made it in life. I'll get fat, but being at a place in my life where I don't care about that is really the goal I'm after. I know people like me who have already made that decision, and they are much happier than they would be counting calories and feeling hungry all the time. These people don't make excuses about their glands or genetics or metabolism or anything. They've look at their lives, weighed the pros and cons, and decided that eating what they want when they want is more important than being fit, good looking, and healthy. I say good on 'em.

 

[TechBoyJK]

Maybe you'd have an idea since you're obese? The lunatics shouting fat acceptance are being supported by *gasp* the fat people. Not too many skinny people raving about fat acceptance and "health at every size" (LOL!)

That's why you get shit like fatpeoplehate on reddit, that has 150k subscribers bashing the fat people.

Exactly. Bottomline is being obese, in many cases, is an obvious sign that the person is shitty in general. They're probably angry, spiteful, careless, rude, and don't give a shit about anything. I don't assume every obese person is nasty, but I assume there's a good possibility they're not pleasant to be around obese or not.

 

[GeekDrew]

Exactly. No need to shame, just don't actively participate in making overweight people feel ok with their state.

For instance, my youngest sister has gone through a particularly stressful part of her life and during that time period (couple years), she let herself go. She is not obese, but is overweight and not happy about it.

I would never shame her and I actively encourage her eating better (share recipes) and exercising (I just ran a marathon with her at Big Sur). What I don't do is tell her that she is fine just the way she is. I don't tell her that everyone is overweight these days, so no biggie. Instead I tell her she is doing really well when she choses to eat something healthy or gets out and exercises.

For what it's worth, though I doubt you intended to be offensive in that context, "let herself go" is extremely offensive to her (and anyone who is the target of that statement). I personally get quite pissed off if someone says that I "let myself go". That implies that I was just being lazy and eating and intentionally contributing to the worsening of my own health just for shits and giggles. No, I never have, and I imagine that your sister didn't, either.

I also don't tell others that "it's OK to be fat", unless they truly aren't fat, and have a disorder of another nature. On the flip side, I also don't praise someone for eating something healthy when I know they have weight issues. I leave them the hell alone, just like I wish everyone else would leave me the hell alone. If it were a close personal friend, then I might comment if they'd lost or gained a significant amount of weight, but aside from that, I try to stay out of it. I hate when others tell me what I should or should not be eating, but I hate HOLY FUCKING BALLS MORE when people tell me that I should go eat something because I haven't had enough to eat just then. Just leave me the hell alone.

 

[Nograts]

For what it's worth, though I doubt you intended to be offensive in that context, "let herself go" is extremely offensive to her (and anyone who is the target of that statement). I personally get quite pissed off if someone says that I "let myself go". That implies that I was just being lazy and eating and intentionally contributing to the worsening of my own health just for shits and giggles. No, I never have, and I imagine that your sister didn't, either.

I also don't tell others that "it's OK to be fat", unless they truly aren't fat, and have a disorder of another nature. On the flip side, I also don't praise someone for eating something healthy when I know they have weight issues. I leave them the hell alone, just like I wish everyone else would leave me the hell alone. If it were a close personal friend, then I might comment if they'd lost or gained a significant amount of weight, but aside from that, I try to stay out of it. I hate when others tell me what I should or should not be eating, but I hate HOLY FUCKING BALLS MORE when people tell me that I should go eat something because I haven't had enough to eat just then. Just leave me the hell alone.

 

[GeekDrew]

Exactly. Bottomline is being obese, in many cases, is an obvious sign that the person is shitty in general. They're probably angry, spiteful, careless, rude, and don't give a shit about anything. I don't assume every obese person is nasty, but I assume there's a good possibility they're not pleasant to be around obese or not.

*sigh* Which just makes the situation worse.

 

[Platypus]

Not too many skinny people raving about fat acceptance and "health at every size" (LOL!)

I am not overweight, nor am I raving (like you posting 21 times in this thread and who knows how many in the other fat shaming circle jerk about that model), but I do advocate that you let people live the life they want to without being a judgmental piece of shit. You guys are fucking ridiculous with your lust to hate and judge people who choose to live a different lifestyle than you do.

You're supposed to be a military guy right? Isn't the whole point of everything you're doing to defend the freedoms of people in this country so that they can live free and do what they want? Does that somehow come with a list of caveats now?

We get it, you don't like fat people and you don't agree with their lifestyle, but here's a spoiler alert for you: no one fucking cares what you think. People who are overweight ESPECIALLY don't care what you think when your presentation of your distaste is so overtly offensive and under the hilariously thin veil that you somehow are trying to motivate them or call out something as this massive social injustice that inconveniences your every waking breath. Like because there are campaigns out there that tell women they don't have to live up to an unrealistic standard of beauty, that your life is somehow actually impacted in a significant way? Sorry, you're not that special.

Most of us pay taxes and healthcare costs and lots of people make bad life decisions which increase these costs to everyone. Get over it. That's life. Are you starting threads about smokers who cost a fortune in healthcare costs over their lifetimes? Or drinkers? Or people who have kids they cannot afford? No, because you have a very specific axe to grind and you hide behind a truly sad justification when doing so.

Let people live their lives, that's all anyone really wants anyway right? Cut the bullshit. Your childish pictures, insults, laughing in people's faces for their weight or beliefs, all underscore what a complete and utter piece of shit of a person you must be. I genuinely feel sorry for you.

 

[TechBoyJK]

I am not overweight, nor am I raving (like you posting 21 times in this thread and who knows how many in the other fat shaming circle jerk about that model), but I do advocate that you let people live the life they want to without being a judgmental piece of shit. You guys are fucking ridiculous with your lust to hate and judge people who choose to live a different lifestyle than you do.

You're supposed to be a military guy right? Isn't the whole point of everything you're doing to defend the freedoms of people in this country so that they can live free and do what they want? Does that somehow come with a list of caveats now?

We get it, you don't like fat people and you don't agree with their lifestyle, but here's a spoiler alert for you: no one fucking cares what you think. People who are overweight ESPECIALLY don't care what you think when your presentation of your distaste is so overtly offensive and under the hilariously thin veil that you somehow are trying to motivate them or call out something as this massive social injustice that inconveniences your every waking breath. Like because there are campaigns out there that tell women they don't have to live up to an unrealistic standard of beauty, that your life is somehow actually impacted in a significant way? Sorry, you're not that special.

Most of us pay taxes and healthcare costs and lots of people make bad life decisions which increase these costs to everyone. Get over it. That's life. Are you starting threads about smokers who cost a fortune in healthcare costs over their lifetimes? Or drinkers? Or people who have kids they cannot afford? No, because you have a very specific axe to grind and you hide behind a truly sad justification when doing so.

Let people live their lives, that's all anyone really wants anyway right? Cut the bullshit.

Obesity kills millions of people. Not giving a shit is exactly the problem. I usually agree with you, but I find your opinion (with all due respect) lacking.

I assume you would also just let an alcoholic live their lives and we'd be shitlords for intervening? It seems to me that you would say "alcoholism is just a lifestyle".

Obesity is not just 'a different lifestyle'. It's a terrible, costly, deadly lifestyle that affects other people, and when you have obese people telling children it's ok to be obese, that's fucking terrible and needs to be stopped immediately.

Do think it's ok to tell kids being obese is healthy and acceptable? It takes a serious lack of character to not see the problem in this.

 

[WHAMPOM]

In times of scarce food, fat is desirious, preferred, beautiful, just look at old world paintings. Fat was a sign of good health and skinny a sign of illness. It is an end product of natural selection, thin people die during times of prolonged starvation and the fat people don't. Being thin is anti-natural selection.

Need I go back to the 80 year history of Corporate design of addictive food products?

 

[SlitheryDee]

Obesity kills millions of people. Not giving a shit is exactly the problem. I usually agree with you, but I find your opinion (with all due respect) lacking.

The thing is, I don't give a shit if other people die because of something they voluntarily do to themselves. It's the same thing to me as mountain climbers dying from falling off mountains, or wildlife experts being eaten by lions. They knew the risks. They did whatever it was they did anyway. I hope they enjoyed it, but I feel no responsibility to "save" them from something they want to do just because it's dangerous.

 

[GeekDrew]

Obesity kills millions of people. Not giving a shit is exactly the problem. I usually agree with you, but I find your opinion (with all due respect) lacking.

I assume you would also just let an alcoholic live their lives and we'd be shitlords for intervening?

Are you wanting to intervene so as to decrease your rate of taxation or insurance premiums, or are you wanting to do so out of some sick sense of calling that requires you help everyone - no, wait, only people with this particular problem - improve themselves?

 

[Platypus]

Obesity kills millions of people. Not giving a shit is exactly the problem. I usually agree with you, but I find your opinion (with all due respect) lacking.

I assume you would also just let an alcoholic live their lives and we'd be shitlords for intervening?

You're inventing a scenario that doesn't exist in order to defeat a point that is paper thin. I am not going to feed into your obvious ruse. Your logical fallacy usage is honestly not even worth the time to unravel.

I usually completely disagree with you, and find basically everything you say on this forum to be lacking in taste, empathy, compassion and intelligence. Get off your fucking cross please.

 

[TechBoyJK]

You're inventing a scenario that doesn't exist in order to defeat a point that is paper thin. I am not going to feed into your obvious ruse. Your logical fallacy usage is honestly not even worth the time to unravel.

I usually completely disagree with you, and find basically everything you say on this forum to be lacking in taste, empathy, compassion and intelligence. Get off your fucking cross please.

A scenario that doesn't exist?

Obesity doesn't exist? Alcoholism doesn't exist?

These are common scenarios which kill people daily. To say it's a scenario that doesn't exist shows how deep your head is in the sand on this issue.

Wow, you're in serious denial, and your statement about me lacking taste, bla bla bla is you desperately wanting to be diminish my opinion so you don't have to consider it.

You don't like what I'm saying, so you're only option is to deny its credibility.

My take is since you're gay (fine with me), you're sick of people criticizing your life style. This is why you're so offended by people criticizing other's lifestyles. But, you're wrong in the obesity issue. It's not just another lifestyle.

 

[PricklyPete]

For what it's worth, though I doubt you intended to be offensive in that context, "let herself go" is extremely offensive to her (and anyone who is the target of that statement). I personally get quite pissed off if someone says that I "let myself go". That implies that I was just being lazy and eating and intentionally contributing to the worsening of my own health just for shits and giggles. No, I never have, and I imagine that your sister didn't, either.

I also don't tell others that "it's OK to be fat", unless they truly aren't fat, and have a disorder of another nature. On the flip side, I also don't praise someone for eating something healthy when I know they have weight issues. I leave them the hell alone, just like I wish everyone else would leave me the hell alone. If it were a close personal friend, then I might comment if they'd lost or gained a significant amount of weight, but aside from that, I try to stay out of it. I hate when others tell me what I should or should not be eating, but I hate HOLY FUCKING BALLS MORE when people tell me that I should go eat something because I haven't had enough to eat just then. Just leave me the hell alone.

I did not intend to be offensive. Those are actually her words, not mine. Prior to this time period, she was fairly active and ate relatively well. Then she got busy and neglected to take the time out of her schedule to take care of herself. Instead of making/eating healthy food, she and her husband were ordering pizza, going to the Mexican restaurant with endless chips, and getting takeout Chinese. It caught up with her after a couple of years. I never said she was lazy (she is quite the opposite and is more successful from a job perspective than I likely will ever be).

 

[Nograts]

I am not overweight, nor am I raving (like you posting 21 times in this thread and who knows how many in the other fat shaming circle jerk about that model), but I do advocate that you let people live the life they want to without being a judgmental piece of shit. You guys are fucking ridiculous with your lust to hate and judge people who choose to live a different lifestyle than you do.

You're supposed to be a military guy right? Isn't the whole point of everything you're doing to defend the freedoms of people in this country so that they can live free and do what they want? Does that somehow come with a list of caveats now?

We get it, you don't like fat people and you don't agree with their lifestyle, but here's a spoiler alert for you: no one fucking cares what you think. People who are overweight ESPECIALLY don't care what you think when your presentation of your distaste is so overtly offensive and under the hilariously thin veil that you somehow are trying to motivate them or call out something as this massive social injustice that inconveniences your every waking breath. Like because there are campaigns out there that tell women they don't have to live up to an unrealistic standard of beauty, that your life is somehow actually impacted in a significant way? Sorry, you're not that special.

Most of us pay taxes and healthcare costs and lots of people make bad life decisions which increase these costs to everyone. Get over it. That's life. Are you starting threads about smokers who cost a fortune in healthcare costs over their lifetimes? Or drinkers? Or people who have kids they cannot afford? No, because you have a very specific axe to grind and you hide behind a truly sad justification when doing so.

Let people live their lives, that's all anyone really wants anyway right? Cut the bullshit. Your childish pictures, insults, laughing in people's faces for their weight or beliefs, all underscore what a complete and utter piece of shit of a person you must be. I genuinely feel sorry for you.

How is half of that relevant? I'm not entitled to opinions somehow? I'm just supposed to accept that our society has gone to COMPLETE FUCKING SHIT with regards to obesity and now there are movements out there that are trying to tell people that it is somehow okay?

How bout this platypus, nobody gives a fuck what you think either. I'm in here debating a topic and you're on the sidelines. That's your prerogative. If you want to sit and let the world happen to you then by all means, I on the other hand like a good crusade, whether you think I'm right or wrong I could give two shits about.

You act like all I do is bash, and I'm pretty sure I've already stated that it's not individual fat people that irk me, its the fucking mentality of (a big part) of society right now. If you want to be a gross fat fucking slob then keep it to yourself. Don't bleed over into my plane seat, don't take up two bus seats, don't require societies ambulances to be reinforced with cranes and double wides, and get off your god damn scooters at Walmart.

 

[TechBoyJK]

How is half of that relevant? I'm not entitled to opinions somehow? I'm just supposed to accept that our society has gone to COMPLETE FUCKING SHIT with regards to obesity and now there are movements out there that are trying to tell people that it is somehow okay?

How bout this platypus, nobody gives a fuck what you think either. I'm in here debating a topic and you're on the sidelines. That's your prerogative. If you want to sit and let the world happen to you then by all means, I on the other hand like a good crusade, whether you think I'm right or wrong I could give two shits about.

You act like all I do is bash, and I'm pretty sure I've already stated that it's not individual fat people that irk me, its the fucking mentality of (a big part) of society right now. If you want to be a gross fat fucking slob then keep it to yourself. Don't bleed over into my plane seat, don't take up two bus seats, don't require societies ambulances to be reinforced with cranes and double wides, and get off your god damn scooters at Walmart.

Platypus jumps on anybody that criticizes lifestyle choices. He's super defensive about it. I suspect that he's been continually harassed by bigots because he's gay.

Problem is being gay isn't an unhealthy lifestyle, imho. Obesity is. Why he can't tell the difference I don't know.

 

[Platypus]

How is half of that relevant? I'm not entitled to opinions somehow? I'm just supposed to accept that our society has gone to COMPLETE FUCKING SHIT with regards to obesity and now there are movements out there that are trying to tell people that it is somehow okay?

How bout this platypus, nobody gives a fuck what you think either. I'm in here debating a topic and you're on the sidelines. That's your prerogative. If you want to sit and let the world happen to you then by all means, I on the other hand like a good crusade, whether you think I'm right or wrong I could give two shits about.

You act like all I do is bash, and I'm pretty sure I've already stated that it's not individual fat people that irk me, its the fucking mentality of (a big part) of society right now. If you want to be a gross fat fucking slob then keep it to yourself. Don't bleed over into my plane seat, don't take up two bus seats, don't require societies ambulances to be reinforced with cranes and double wides, and get off your god damn scooters at Walmart.

It would all be relevant to you if you weren't too goddamn stupid to understand what I'm saying.

As to your bolded statement, from this thread ALONE:

Stop stuffing your fucking face and get off your ass.

Where's them burgers at. I have rights.

...so you can keep cramming that pork hole of yours.

Tell us fat people. Tell us what you need, since decades of medical literature isn't enough to convince you otherwise.

No. You're delusional. And fat.

When you have that heart attack the ambulance won't require a crane. Or 4 times the crew.

How to be not fat? How about not stuffing your fat fucking face.

So when my tax dollars go to outfit fleets of ambulances with cranes and double wides, and then multiple crews are dispatched to help ONE FAT person who couldn't put the coke and cookies down

Rofl. So many angry fatties.

You were saying? Sorry I can't follow your unique brand of delusion.