Can Christians Do Good For Goodness Sake?

[bshole]

I have included a link where the Christian apologist insists that all good works done by Christians will be rewarded in Heaven. Lets think about that for a second. It is impossible for a Christian to do good for other people without storing a payment in Heaven for that good work, he cannot do good for the simple reason that he wants to help his fellow man.... it is all about him earning special status symbols for himself when he gets to Heaven. Since the Christian is only doing good work to get payments in Heaven (selfish) can his good works really be qualified as good works? Wouldn't it simply be his job? What is so outstanding about a person doing work for pay?

Compare that to an atheist who does good work. The atheist is doing the good work for the simple fact that he wants to help his fellow man. He does not expect nor desire a reward for his good work other than the good feeling that he gets from helping those in need.

Last point: this Heaven Christians aspire to will apparently have a class system similar to that on earth with an underclass and an elite class that has more swag. So for the rest of time, those with swag can rub it in the face of those without swag, yea that sounds just dandy.

From this one sermon it is clear there is a “reward in heaven” waiting for each of us who is saved. There are “treasures in heaven” for each of us. God has rewards waiting for us, and much of this sermon from Jesus is an admonition for us not to forsake our heavenly reward by seeking worldly rewards and acknowledgment.

http://coldcasechristianity.com/2012/are-there-different-degrees-of-reward-in-heaven/

 

[MagnusTheBrewer]

Tis the season. Let the hate go. God bless.

 

[imported_tajmahal]

Tis the season. Let the hate go. God bless.

Isn't the name of this forum "Politics, Religion and News?"

 

[ch33zw1z]

There are Christians, who are what I would call true Christians, that do the good works because they follow the teachings of the scripture and strive to be like Christ.

Those that do the good things simply for the expectation of rewards, avoiding eternal damnation in hell, etc...well, I don't regard them as true Christians.

Are there good people who I don't regard as true Christians, absolutely. I pay attention to actions more than words, but both are important.

 

[MagnusTheBrewer]

Isn't the name of this forum "Politics, Religion and News?"

There's a Pakistani phrase that translates to "conflict is life." I think many of the denizens here are closet Pakistanis.

 

[MajinCry]

Christians (are supposed to) adhere to the Bible. From sex slavery to genocide, I don't think that book is something that we want people to be following. Thankfully, many Christians haven't even read the Bible, and fewer even know a handful of the commandments, with fewer still following any of them.

The whole basis of Christianity, is that you do what God commands (i.e, follow the commandments to a T), and you'll go to Heaven. Don't, and you have consequently broken a/several commandments, and are to be put to death. With the introduction of the NT, it doesn't end there; break the commandments, and when you die, you are thrust into eternal hellfire and torment.

I guess the pop culture version of Christianity, where we give prezzies to each other on Santa day and eggs on Easterbunny day, is much more adhered to than, well, the actual religion.

 

[MagnusTheBrewer]

Christians (are supposed to) adhere to the Bible. From sex slavery to genocide, I don't think that book is something that we want people to be following. Thankfully, many Christians haven't even read the Bible, and fewer even know a handful of the commandments, with fewer still following any of them.

The whole basis of Christianity, is that you do what God commands (i.e, follow the commandments to a T), and you'll go to Heaven. Don't, and you have consequently broken a/several commandments, and are to be put to death. With the introduction of the NT, it doesn't end there; break the commandments, and when you die, you are thrust into eternal hellfire and torment.

I guess the pop culture version of Christianity, where we give prezzies to each other on Santa day and eggs on Easterbunny day, is much more adhered to than, well, the actual religion.

If only you understood what you read. There is no agreement, quid pro quo or, bargain in place. Judgment is God's alone and our actions do not guarantee anything.

 

[MajinCry]

If only you understood what you read. There is no agreement, quid pro quo or, bargain in place. Judgment is God's alone and our actions do not guarantee anything.

This is what I mean. You've clearly not read the Bible, and have fabricated some feel-goody religion in it's place, and called it the same name as Christianity.

Matthew 5:17-22

"Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them."

"For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished."

"Therefore anyone who sets aside one of the least of these commands and teaches others accordingly will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven."

"For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven."

"You have heard that it was said to the people long ago, 'You shall not murder, and anyone who murders will be subject to judgment.'"

"But I tell you that anyone who is angry with a brother or sister will be subject to judgment. Again, anyone who says to a brother or sister, 'Raca,' is answerable to the court. And anyone who says, 'You fool!' will be in danger of the fire of hell."

So obey the 600-odd commandments, and you have a shot at Heaven. Condemn your brother or your sister, for whatever reason, whether they be a rapist, a molester, a genocidal maniac, a torturer, a sexual abuser, etc., and you'll be on a sure-ticket to hellfire.

And that's the NT.

You should read that book sometime, the entire religion hinges upon it.

 

[Annisman*]

It is our joy to do good works for our Father who gave it ALL for us through His son, including eternal life. Him rewarding us for anything is just a reflection of the kind of good and loving Father that He really is. The glory should always point back to Him.

 

[TheELF]

Compare that to an atheist who does good work. The atheist is doing the good work for the simple fact that he wants to help his fellow man. He does not expect nor desire a reward for his good work other than the good feeling that he gets from helping those in need.

This would make this person a christian in the eyes of god and would earn him(her/it/whatever) a rightful place in heaven...whether he likes it or not!

Also the rewards spoken off are the things jesus preached about on his short time on earth and not any sort of "swag".

 

[MajinCry]

It is our joy to do good works for our Father who gave it ALL for us through His son, including eternal life. Him rewarding us for anything is just a reflection of the kind of good and loving Father that He really is. The glory should always point back to Him.

Good and loving? Talk about Stockholm syndrome.

Isaiah 45:7

I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

Saying God is a kind and loving being, deserving of endless praise, is like saying Jimmy Saville is a loving man, who's works for children did them an unparalleled amount of good and righteousness.

Have you read the Bible?

 

[pauldun170]

 

[MajinCry]

This would make this person a christian in the eyes of god and would earn him(her/it/whatever) a rightful place in heaven...whether he likes it or not!

Also the rewards spoken off are the things jesus preached about on his short time on earth and not any sort of "swag".

No, no it wouldn't. There's a fairly strict criteria, consisting of following the commandments to a T. As well as the following states:

1 Corinthians 6:6-10

But brother goes to law against brother, and that before unbelievers? To have lawsuits at all with one another is already a defeat for you. Why not rather suffer wrong? Why not rather be defrauded? But you yourselves wrong and defraud—even your own brothers! Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality, nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.

Edit: Also, concerning Atheists:

Mark 3:29

But whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit never has forgiveness, but is guilty of an eternal sin

 

[Londo_Jowo]

Meh, all they have to do is ask forgiveness of their sins and all is good. Jesus already died for their sins.

 

[JSt0rm]

christianity is a brilliant human made religion. ^^^^ You can sin all you want and then "be forgiven" in the end. Some would say its actually a trick of the devil to make sure people feel ok about doing evil things. And its true.

 

[MagnusTheBrewer]

This is what I mean. You've clearly not read the Bible, and have fabricated some feel-goody religion in it's place, and called it the same name as Christianity.

Matthew 5:17-22



So obey the 600-odd commandments, and you have a shot at Heaven. Condemn your brother or your sister, for whatever reason, whether they be a rapist, a molester, a genocidal maniac, a torturer, a sexual abuser, etc., and you'll be on a sure-ticket to hellfire.

And that's the NT.

You should read that book sometime, the entire religion hinges upon it.

Judgment is not a guarantee of heaven or hell. God has also said that humans are inherently unable to follow the commandments which, doesn't change our responsibility to strive to follow them. All of your "600 commandments " are contained in the ten commandments most are familiar with. God did not want to give us even those ten because it implies a contract. He knows we can not follow them, "judgment" is his alone.

 

[Puffnstuff]

Meh, all they have to do is ask forgiveness of their sins and all is good. Jesus already died for their sins.

You are absolutely correct sir. Jesus paid the price and the word says to confess your sins to Jesus and he will forgive you of them. Paul says that salvation is the free gift of God, not of works lest any man should boast. Sorry JW's, RC"s or anybody else who thinks going to church on Sunday will do the trick . Storing treasures up in heaven is not like accumulating gold bars down here. Doing right by people and sharing the truth of the gospel earns you favor with God if you have salvation, otherwise its like dousing yourself with gasoline while waiting for someone to come by with a lit match to ignite you.

 

[IronWing]

Also the rewards spoken off are the things jesus preached about on his short time on earth and not any sort of "swag".

Screw that. When you see me in heaven, I'm going to have more crowns than an inner-city auto parts store.

 

[MajinCry]

Judgment is not a guarantee of heaven or hell. God has also said that humans are inherently unable to follow the commandments which, doesn't change our responsibility to strive to follow them. All of your "600 commandments " are contained in the ten commandments most are familiar with. God did not want to give us even those ten because it implies a contract. He knows we can not follow them, "judgment" is his alone.

...No, no they are not contained in the ten commandments. For example, here's one not covered by those stone tablets:

Deuteronomy 22:23-24

"If a damsel that is a virgin be betrothed unto an husband, and a man find her in the city, and lie with her;

"Then ye shall bring them both out unto the gate of that city, and ye shall stone them with stones that they die; the damsel, because she cried not, being in the city; and the man, because he hath humbled his neighbour's wife: so thou shalt put away evil from among you."

Great, at least you understand that it's impossible for the Bible to be adhered to, which puts the whole idea of the New Covenant in perspective, since such has been admitted by the Bible itself.

Jeremiah 31:31-34

“Behold, the days are coming, declares the Lord, when I will make pa new covenant with the house of Israel and the house of Judah,

not like the covenant that I made with their fathers on the day when I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt,

my covenant that they broke, rthough I was their husband, declares the Lord.

For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, declares the Lord:

I will put my law within them, and I will write it on their hearts. And I will be their God, and they shall be my people.

And no longer shall each one teach his neighbor and each his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’ for they shall all know me,

from the least of them to the greatest, declares the Lord.

For I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

And the admission:

Luke 16:17

It is easier for heaven and earth to disappear than for the least stroke of a pen to drop out of the Law.

 

[justoh]

Since the Christian is only doing good work to get payments in Heaven (selfish) can his good works really be qualified as good works? Wouldn't it simply be his job? What is so outstanding about a person doing work for pay?

Compare that to an atheist who does good work. The atheist is doing the good work for the simple fact that he wants to help his fellow man. He does not expect nor desire a reward for his good work other than the good feeling that he gets from helping those in need

What do you think motivates atheists to do good, and why don't you think christians can have that same motivation?

 

[JSt0rm]

atheists understand how precious life actually is. All these religions who have told people fairy tales about life after death think life is cheap now. Its a way to get humans to do horrible things to other humans. Religion is just control of spirituality - a needed by product of self awareness. One of our greatest evolutionary traits is self sacrifice. But again its been tweaked to be used by those who want to control it.

 

[GagHalfrunt]

Most Christians don't do good at all. And the ones that do anything good it's probably more out of fear of the punishment rather than greed for rewards. They've invented an invisible man in the sky that for some odd reason created them broken and then blames them for being broken. So they have to spend their lives kissing ass to get out of an eternity of hellish torment where god will send them to prove how much he loves them.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

This is what I mean. You've clearly not read the Bible, and have fabricated some feel-goody religion in it's place, and called it the same name as Christianity.

Matthew 5:17-22



So obey the 600-odd commandments, and you have a shot at Heaven. Condemn your brother or your sister, for whatever reason, whether they be a rapist, a molester, a genocidal maniac, a torturer, a sexual abuser, etc., and you'll be on a sure-ticket to hellfire.

And that's the NT.

You should read that book sometime, the entire religion hinges upon it.

No. Christ was in a constant battle with the keepers of the law and they eventually brought about his demise. Doing things on the Sabbath? Always.

How could Christ keep the law and violate it if your non-contextual statement is true? No one who seriously tries to understand Christianity would make that claim any more than they would say that atheists want to steal babies and Muslims behead all who aren't Islamic.

 

[Puffnstuff]

Most Christians don't do good at all. And the ones that do anything good it's probably more out of fear of the punishment rather than greed for rewards.

I absolutely agree with your assessment. Furthermore, I would say that most people who claim to be Christians are not and that is the core of the problem.

They've invented an invisible man in the sky that for some odd reason created them broken and then blames them for being broken. So they have to spend their lives kissing ass to get out of an eternity of hellish torment where god will send them to prove how much he loves them.

I can assure you that God is real and not some invisible string pulling entity concocted by some drug addled bozo laying in the back alley between the dumpsters with a small cardboard sign begging for money. Religion on the other hand promotes fear mongering in the name of exercising control over their minions just like it has since the beginning. The free gift of salvation offered by your maker Jesus, actual Christianity, is not the same thing that is being offered by organized religion pseudo Christianity which is the equivalent of lipstick on a pig. You might like how it looks now but in the end it gets roasted. Religion pedals hate and fear as they always have to gain and maintain control over their people.

 

[JSt0rm]

prosperity gospel ya'll. The fact that something like that even exists tells you all you need to know about humans and religion.