Can Christians Do Good For Goodness Sake?

[FelixDeCat]

....

 

[Cerpin Taxt]

I thought atheism would make you are more relaxed person. Maybe you should take your own advice and chill out.

I'd really like to talk about a good reason to believe that a god exists, but nobody seems to have any.

 

[bshole]

I'd really like to talk about a good reason to believe that a god exists, but nobody seems to have any.

For one there is a human need for there to be a meaning to life. There is also a human need to exist and to not die.

It is a really fucking horrible hand humanity was dealt. It is real real hard for any person to accept that ultimately their life is of no value whatsoever on a cosmic scale and that their existence will end very soon. This is a damn good reason to believe in God and I can completely understand why Christians would believe it.

 

[Cerpin Taxt]

This is a damn good reason to believe in God and I can completely understand why Christians would believe it.

I get what you're saying, but no it's not a good reason, else we might as well invent Super God that's even better than any other god at making humans feel special.

 

[Blue_Max]

For one there is a human need for there to be a meaning to life. There is also a human need to exist and to not die.

It is a really fucking horrible hand humanity was dealt. It is real real hard for any person to accept that ultimately their life is of no value whatsoever on a cosmic scale and that their existence will end very soon. This is a damn good reason to believe in God and I can completely understand why Christians would believe it.

The whole "gone to a better place" idea has been adopted by pretty much all religions throughout history... and not just the big ones.
I'd dare say it's the focal point for most of 'em. One can understand why, there's a naiive comfort to be found in it.

 

[bshole]

I get what you're saying, but no it's not a good reason, else we might as well invent Super God that's even better than any other god at making humans feel special.

You are what I would term a courageous atheist. You accept the hand you were dealt. I am a scared shitless atheist who obsesses about the abyss of nothingness rushing towards him. You lucked out and got a better brain I guess.

 

[MajinCry]

For one there is a human need for there to be a meaning to life. There is also a human need to exist and to not die.

It is a really fucking horrible hand humanity was dealt. It is real real hard for any person to accept that ultimately their life is of no value whatsoever on a cosmic scale and that their existence will end very soon. This is a damn good reason to believe in God and I can completely understand why Christians would believe it.

The thing is, it's super easy to come up with a reason to exist. Come up with a goal, find a cause to fight for, have a family, whatever suits your fancy. Bam.

Hell, it doesn't even have to be a creative thing. Maybe eating tasty food and driving fast cars is what gets your boat going.

 

[Cerpin Taxt]

You are what I would term a courageous atheist. You accept the hand you were dealt.

Thank you for the compliment, truly, although I don't personally feel like it takes courage at all. Perhaps it stems from my tireless and seemingly pedantic insistence that not believing a god exists is not the same as believing no god exists. I say that because in very much the same way, lacking reasons to believe that there isn't some kind of continuing consciousness and identity after death is not the same as having reasons to believe there isn't such a continuation, or more simply, that we have just as few reasons to believe that there are bad things (or even no things) after death than that there are good things.

I am a scared shitless atheist who obsesses about the abyss of nothingness rushing towards him. You lucked out and got a better brain I guess.

It takes a different kind of courage to face that kind of possibility (even though I disagree about it) and to remain committed to facts and reason in spite of it.

 

[Cerpin Taxt]

The whole "gone to a better place" idea has been adopted by pretty much all religions throughout history... and not just the big ones.
I'd dare say it's the focal point for most of 'em. One can understand why, there's a naiive comfort to be found in it.

Christians are God's chosen SJWs who one day will all go to the big Safe Space in the sky.

 

[Moonbeam]

You are what I would term a courageous atheist. You accept the hand you were dealt. I am a scared shitless atheist who obsesses about the abyss of nothingness rushing towards him. You lucked out and got a better brain I guess.

You seek for meaning and know there is none. What you haven't realized is that the need for meaning is as meaningless as everything else. There is no meaning nor was there ever a need for it. You were born with a capacity for joy that was taken from you by thinking. In the God conscious state there is no thought and no separation. The universe and you are all the same thing. You suffer because you have been separated from, have lost, a belief that gave you joy, not seeing that the joy came from you and not the belief. The surest proof for you that God exists is the pain you feel in separation from Him. You can't suffer from being separated from nothing. God is as real as your loss.

 

[Moonbeam]

I'd really like to talk about a good reason to believe that a god exists, but nobody seems to have any.

I really can't believe you would like to believe a god exists, but I can't buy it. Can you show me this 'like'? Will it fit in a 20x10x10cm box? Where can I go to see it? I am highly suspicious this thing you call 'like' does not exist. You don't expect, I hope, that I'm going to take your word for it. I suppose, though, that part of my problem is that we are talking past each other because, as it happens, I have never liked anything and can't relate.

 

[FelixDeCat]

I'd really like to talk about a good reason to believe that a god exists, but nobody seems to have any.

Have a nice day.

 

[Paratus]

You are what I would term a courageous atheist. You accept the hand you were dealt. I am a scared shitless atheist who obsesses about the abyss of nothingness rushing towards him. You lucked out and got a better brain I guess.

Look at it this way. Everyone dies eventually. Even if we conquered biological death entropy eventually wins and the universe becomes a cold dark dead place, or dark energy eventually tears even atomic nuclei apart. The only way something could possibly survive any of that will be through intelligence.

We have it. We use it to figure out why the universe is the way it is. Why we are here, (maybe random chance, maybe not). How to escape the end of the universe.

We've learned more about the universe and ourselves in the time you've been alive than at any other time in our past. We've all had a small part in that roll back of darkness. So take pride in that.

 

[Cerpin Taxt]

And I'd like to talk about why your atheism makes you a mean and bitter person who simply wants to "win" arguments.

We can talk about that right after we talk about why your religion makes you sexually attracted to animals.

 

[greatnoob]

And I'd like to talk about why your atheism makes you a mean and bitter person who simply wants to "win" arguments.

Have a nice day.

It's more so an enlightened individual telling the town idiot to not jump off a cliff. It's for nobody else's benefit except the town idiot seeing as the enlightened individual isn't the one risking his life jumping off of a cliff.

Now just substitute town idiot with Christians and that's what we have here..

 

[FelixDeCat]

It's more so an enlightened individual telling the town idiot to not jump off a cliff. It's for nobody else's benefit except the town idiot seeing as the enlightened individual isn't the one risking his life jumping off of a cliff.

Now just substitute town idiot with Christians and that's what we have here..

That's all the proof I need.

 

[FelixDeCat]

Why do you molest farm animals?

We can talk about that right after we talk about why your religion makes you sexually attracted to animals.

Did you take your meds this evening?

 

[Cerpin Taxt]

More evidence of bitterness. That's all the proof I need.

Yeah I'm sure your we're totally on the fence right up till his post.

^ this is the basic reason Christians don't get any respect. No integrity. No candor.

 

[Cerpin Taxt]

Did you take your meds this evening?

Are you done beating your wife for the night?

 

[FelixDeCat]

....

 

[Cerpin Taxt]

That makes no sense. I am not married.

It's a yes or no question.

 

[FelixDeCat]

It's a yes or no question.

I did not ask a question, I made a statement.

 

[Cerpin Taxt]

I did not ask a question, I made a statement.

My cat's breath smells like cat food

 

[cytg111]

I have included a link where the Christian apologist insists that all good works done by Christians will be rewarded in Heaven. Lets think about that for a second. It is impossible for a Christian to do good for other people without storing a payment in Heaven for that good work, he cannot do good for the simple reason that he wants to help his fellow man.... it is all about him earning special status symbols for himself when he gets to Heaven. Since the Christian is only doing good work to get payments in Heaven (selfish) can his good works really be qualified as good works? Wouldn't it simply be his job? What is so outstanding about a person doing work for pay?

Compare that to an atheist who does good work. The atheist is doing the good work for the simple fact that he wants to help his fellow man. He does not expect nor desire a reward for his good work other than the good feeling that he gets from helping those in need.

Last point: this Heaven Christians aspire to will apparently have a class system similar to that on earth with an underclass and an elite class that has more swag. So for the rest of time, those with swag can rub it in the face of those without swag, yea that sounds just dandy.


http://coldcasechristianity.com/2012/are-there-different-degrees-of-reward-in-heaven/

Doesnt matter one jack either way. If you think that, when you are doing good, it is not tied to your upbringing, what you were taught as a child coupled with your DNA, then you are mistaken IMO. Take a look out there, same DNA, different environments, disaster all around.
Good is taught and nurtured. Be it by Christianity or parents of atheism or believers in the spaghetti monster make the same difference. None. In my humble opinion of course.

 

[interchange]

How would you define guilt and shame?

IMO, guilt and shame are based on perceived moral constructs, and many of those are learned while we grow.

What's deemed acceptable morally has changed frequently and greatly through human history.

Our earliest experiences with guilt and shame come from a time where morality isn't something we understand. They are part of us separating from our early attachment figures, and as a mental function, literally understanding the difference between self and others and cause and effect.

Culture, religion, logic, morality, etc. are all ideas which we attach later on.

Avoidance of guilt and shame is one mechanism of promoting humans to do good. It acts in this way for the theist and atheist both.

I do think that some cultures and religions take very concrete approaches to behavior and back it up by emphasizing the risk of those feelings, and attaching them to a fear of an undesirable outcome (e.g. going to hell).

As you have observed, though, this mechanism (and others) of providing a sense of morality does not equate to any objective morality. It can be subject to radical change throughout time and radical difference between communities.

But knowing that is no endorsement for logic as a replacement. I actually find that more susceptible to distortion because the alternative must be withheld through a community rather than simply an individual.

This is why I emphasize empathy as the deficit tool in approaching the greater good. If we are able to appreciate the experience of those affected by our choices on a level of feeling, it provides cognitive dissonance when either our logic or our community rules are subject to unconscious biases.