California giving drivers license's to illegals

[JEDIYoda]

My all what? There is a real simple solution to what you claim is the problem, and illegals having insurance still leaves a lot of uninsured motorists out there. Or is your uninsured motorist concerns just bullshit?

Here we go again circular logic...the point being there will not be as many out their uninsured......you should know that or are you just playing like you know no better?

 

[Matt1970]

How are they (I assume you mean citizens) going to pay for it?

Really? Forcing a company to take on low income clients at a reduced rate? It's called passing the costs on to the consumer. But I think you have clearly shown this is not about the insurance.

 

[justoh]

That's quite a reversal. When I applied for a CA license in 1999 I had to wait like 6 months for them to confirm with the feds that i was legally allowed to be in the country, and I already had a license from another state.

 

[ivwshane]

Really? Forcing a company to take on low income clients at a reduced rate? It's called passing the costs on to the consumer. But I think you have clearly shown this is not about the insurance.

I'm sure you have proof of your claim and this isn't more ass talking from you.

And just a reminder, this special rate program has already been in existence and still would have been regardless of whether or not california allowed illegals to get drivers licenses. So your whole point is still bullshit

 

[Rebel_L]

Ah, so you want to punish the law abiding citizens by making them pay for coverage for those that break the law because you know, allowing those that break the law to get a license which requires having insurance is too much of a reward.

Talk about cutting off your nose to spite your face.


Good job Matt! You just shat on American citizens in favor of illegal immigrants

If the problem is people with normal coverage getting screwed over in accidents with uninsured drivers, by far the more effective solution is to have mandatory coverage against such an incident ... the whole point of all insurance is to spread a few high cost incidents over many people so that no one individual has to bear the burden of the high cost incident.

As for the benefit of getting all the illegals into the insurance block I do not believe that we have the necessary info to see if it helps out the average person. If the illegals for instance have higher accident rates than the rest of the block (for instance they could have a very high percentage of new drivers who statistically have more accidents) or get subsidized rates then the additional cost to the whole block to add this new group in could very well exceed the additional cost of the mandatory coverage for current drivers.

It seems the individual states get kind of a raw deal on this whole thing, they are unable to do anything about illegals as that seems to be under the federal jurisdiction but have to deal with having them there. I wonder if a state is eventually going to sue the federal government for not doing anything about illegals.

Im kind of curious as I do not know to much about state and federal jurisdictions, can a state turn over an illegal immigrant to a federal authority and then forbid the federal authority to release them back into the state?

 

[ivwshane]

If the problem is people with normal coverage getting screwed over in accidents with uninsured drivers, by far the more effective solution is to have mandatory coverage against such an incident ... the whole point of all insurance is to spread a few high cost incidents over many people so that no one individual has to bear the burden of the high cost incident.

As for the benefit of getting all the illegals into the insurance block I do not believe that we have the necessary info to see if it helps out the average person. If the illegals for instance have higher accident rates than the rest of the block (for instance they could have a very high percentage of new drivers who statistically have more accidents) or get subsidized rates then the additional cost to the whole block to add this new group in could very well exceed the additional cost of the mandatory coverage for current drivers.

It seems the individual states get kind of a raw deal on this whole thing, they are unable to do anything about illegals as that seems to be under the federal jurisdiction but have to deal with having them there. I wonder if a state is eventually going to sue the federal government for not doing anything about illegals.

Im kind of curious as I do not know to much about state and federal jurisdictions, can a state turn over an illegal immigrant to a federal authority and then forbid the federal authority to release them back into the state?

Insurance is but one aspect needed when obtaining a drivers license, training would be the other.

http://www.latimes.com/local/politics/la-me-drivers-license-explainer-20141229-story.html

 

[Rebel_L]

Insurance is but one aspect needed when obtaining a drivers license, training would be the other.

http://www.latimes.com/local/politics/la-me-drivers-license-explainer-20141229-story.html

From the article

"Officials estimated the new program will cost $140 million to $220 million in the first three years. Applicants are expected to pay $50 million under current fee structures, but the law allows additional fees if necessary. "

I does make me wonder if the state is going to or even can sue the Federal government for the cost.

I would think could be a effective strategy to just integrate immigrants and pass the bill for any costs or state benefits given to them on to the federal government. Maybe even send a bill to the feds for your state income tax on the average income for the estimated number of employed illegals.

 

[JEDIYoda]

From the article

"Officials estimated the new program will cost $140 million to $220 million in the first three years. Applicants are expected to pay $50 million under current fee structures, but the law allows additional fees if necessary. "

I does make me wonder if the state is going to or even can sue the Federal government for the cost.

I would think could be a effective strategy to just integrate immigrants and pass the bill for any costs or state benefits given to them on to the federal government. Maybe even send a bill to the feds for your state income tax on the average income for the estimated number of employed illegals.

Yet that is not really the issue asa far a Matt1970 is concerned.....

As far as he is concerned the less illegal aliens the better....ship them all back!!

 

[Rebel_L]

Yet that is not really the issue asa far a Matt1970 is concerned.....

As far as he is concerned the less illegal aliens the better....ship them all back!!

I am sure you want less illegal aliens as well, you certainly want less illegal drivers on the road like matt does. The main point I get from what matt is saying is that dealing with illegal drivers does not address the issue of illegal aliens, which Im sure even you can agree with is the root cause for this large volume of illegal drivers.

He does seem to have his mind made up on how to deal the problem and doesn't seem to recognize that California has to deal with the problem while not being able to address the root cause, but it seems like his end goal of having no illegal aliens in the US is something you might even share, just not the way to end up there.

 

[ivwshane]

I am sure you want less illegal aliens as well, you certainly want less illegal drivers on the road like matt does. The main point I get from what matt is saying is that dealing with illegal drivers does not address the issue of illegal aliens, which Im sure even you can agree with is the root cause for this large volume of illegal drivers.

He does seem to have his mind made up on how to deal the problem and doesn't seem to recognize that California has to deal with the problem while not being able to address the root cause, but it seems like his end goal of having no illegal aliens in the US is something you might even share, just not the way to end up there.

Hell I even agree with Matt about stopping illegals in the first place (but I'm almost positive we disagree on the how) but that's another issue and the solution isn't all or nothing.

 

[Rebel_L]

Hell I even agree with Matt about stopping illegals in the first place (but I'm almost positive we disagree on the how) but that's another issue and the solution isn't all or nothing.

Matts ideas seem to be ideas that would have to be implemented right after an amnesty or something of the sort to even have a chance of being effective. I am not even sure if the US legal system could handle keeping up processing new illegals on a forward going basis without having to wait for more trained lawyers and judges, but it certainly would not be feasible to try and have hearings for all the ones already present even if they were convenient easy and cooperative as far as rounding them all up went.

I can however certainly understand the frustration level of anyone who is either a legal immigrant and had to jump through many hoops or an American who is struggling to get by when they see nothing other than bandaid solutions like what California is doing. (Not that I necessarily believe the illegals are the downfall of the average American, just that its tough seeing someone who doesn't follow the rules have some success if you are trying to follow the rules and are not having any success)

Up a little north of the US where I am the problem is not nearly as large, people headed here by land would likely stop once they reach the US and everyone else has to cross either an ocean or the artic. Refugee status is certainly open for abuse here and its irritating to see people exploit that when you know people who get the run around with the immigration system, but other than tightening up borders I really don't see what you can actually do to stop people from coming.

 

[michal1980]

Matts ideas seem to be ideas that would have to be implemented right after an amnesty or something of the sort to even have a chance of being effective. I am not even sure if the US legal system could handle keeping up processing new illegals on a forward going basis without having to wait for more trained lawyers and judges, but it certainly would not be feasible to try and have hearings for all the ones already present even if they were convenient easy and cooperative as far as rounding them all up went.

I can however certainly understand the frustration level of anyone who is either a legal immigrant and had to jump through many hoops or an American who is struggling to get by when they see nothing other than bandaid solutions like what California is doing. (Not that I necessarily believe the illegals are the downfall of the average American, just that its tough seeing someone who doesn't follow the rules have some success if you are trying to follow the rules and are not having any success)

Up a little north of the US where I am the problem is not nearly as large, people headed here by land would likely stop once they reach the US and everyone else has to cross either an ocean or the artic. Refugee status is certainly open for abuse here and its irritating to see people exploit that when you know people who get the run around with the immigration system, but other than tightening up borders I really don't see what you can actually do to stop people from coming.

No. No more amnesty BEFORE we deal with the problem. How many times have we done that?

 

[Matt1970]

Hell I even agree with Matt about stopping illegals in the first place (but I'm almost positive we disagree on the how) but that's another issue and the solution isn't all or nothing.

At least we agree on something.

 

[drebo]

I had to go to CA DMV for something today and jesus fucking holy shit christ there were so many Mexicans I thought I was in fucking Mexico.

Not to mention it's now impossible to get an appointment in a reasonable amount of time.