Calif: Keep paying higher taxes or face deep, painful cuts in services

[Londo_Jowo]

Craig is such a gentleman. He sent me a PM to let me know I'm on ignore, like I'd care.

I guess the big question that inquiring minds need to know: Does this rank higher than being on dmcowen's ignore list?

 

[ShawnD1]

The problem in California is that we all pay so much in residual taxes and get nothing for it. Ask any european and they will tell you, yes they pay a lot in taxes, but they also get a lot for it. Here, not so much...

Seems like the entire US is like that. Massive taxes, but it doesn't seem to pay for anything. University in the US is incredibly expensive compared to any other country, healthcare is super expensive, and daycare is not subsidized unless you're starving to death. The money just disappears and nobody knows where it went.

Federal Bureau of Fund Management has year long meetings about how to spend the budget. They never come to any conclusions because the endless meetings ate the entire budget

 

[drebo]

across the board public school tuition is the answer to fund public schools and unload the burden from the tax payer. When ever you guys want more money for the schools you can argue among your selves and keep the tax payer out of the loop.

No, responsible spending of our property taxes and lotto money is the answer to underfunded public schools. That and vouchers and not putting all tax revenue in the "general fund".

Paying more is not the answer. Responsibly spending what comes in is.

 

[BoberFett]

Seems like the entire US is like that. Massive taxes, but it doesn't seem to pay for anything. University in the US is incredibly expensive compared to any other country, healthcare is super expensive, and daycare is not subsidized unless you're starving to death. The money just disappears and nobody knows where it went.

Federal Bureau of Fund Management has year long meetings about how to spend the budget. They never come to any conclusions because the endless meetings ate the entire budget

That's my major complaint. I could stomach paying taxes if I thought I was getting something for it. I use roads and... hmmm... what else do I get from several trillion dollars worth of spending?

 

[allthatisman]

Seems like the entire US is like that. Massive taxes, but it doesn't seem to pay for anything. University in the US is incredibly expensive compared to any other country, healthcare is super expensive, and daycare is not subsidized unless you're starving to death. The money just disappears and nobody knows where it went.

Federal Bureau of Fund Management has year long meetings about how to spend the budget. They never come to any conclusions because the endless meetings ate the entire budget

Yes endless meetings that never seem to amount to anything (this includes budget sessions at the Capitol) and contracts that would make any small business owner keel over in surprise... Being a "tech guy" I am always blown away at what departments spend on IT equipment, specifically. The state's tax revenues ARE going somewhere, but it's not to the little guy, it's going to big governement contractors that are literally raping the state for goods and services. This is not just limited to the govt, since larger businesses generally pay top dollar for equipment/repairs etc. but at least in the end, they can write off the expense come tax time...

 

[Fern]

That's my major complaint. I could stomach paying taxes if I thought I was getting something for it. I use roads and... hmmm... what else do I get from several trillion dollars worth of spending?

According to the article I linked over here: http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2163206

you get to support illegal immigrant families and 'invest' in their childrens' education.

Look at the rates for CA's immigrant population's welfare usage. Does this contribute significantly to their budget problems?

Fern

 

[Craig234]

Well we could do an experiment. Let's raise taxes in CA 20% on everyone and everything and see how that goes. I'm told that in NY our losing people wasn't due to being taxed to death. Let's see if that's right.

CA would be a good lab rat.

Here's another. Let's not raise rates on income for anyone, but restore commercial property taxes and just continue the current other rates until the economy is better.

 

[Craig234]

According to the article I linked over here: http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2163206

you get to support illegal immigrant families and 'invest' in their childrens' education.

Look at the rates for CA's immigrant population's welfare usage. Does this contribute significantly to their budget problems?

Fern

How much does society benefit from cheap immigrant labor, such as cheap food?

 

[the DRIZZLE]

How much does society benefit from cheap immigrant labor, such as cheap food?

And you know that certain people benefit more than others. Agrobusiness is the biggest winner. Our open borders combined with the welfare state is basically a giant subsidy for certain industries at the expense of everyone else. Now we get to pay for it twice. Once to subsidize the illegal immigrants, and a second time to pay for the unemployed people that might have the jobs otherwise. Open borders plus a welfare state plus a poorer country next door is a recipe for disaster.

 

[fskimospy]

Well we could do an experiment. Let's raise taxes in CA 20% on everyone and everything and see how that goes. I'm told that in NY our losing people wasn't due to being taxed to death. Let's see if that's right.

CA would be a good lab rat.

You aren't 'told' anything. Empirical evidence shows that there's no support for the idea that people in NY and NJ were leaving due to that tax.

That being said, what you're saying is retarded. Just because one specific tax didn't cause people to leave a state obviously doesn't mean that no tax could do so. Of course you already know this, you just wanted to say something dumb because you're mad about taxes or something.

 

[Lithium381]

Taxes . .. something about a revolution in 1776 . . . . my memory is fading... i seem to remember SOMETHING happening back then, can't remember.. .

 

[ShawnD1]

Taxes . .. something about a revolution in 1776 . . . . my memory is fading... i seem to remember SOMETHING happening back then, can't remember.. .

lol history fail

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Declaration_of_Independence#Background

Because the colonies were not directly represented in Parliament, colonists argued that Parliament had no right to levy taxes upon them. This tax dispute was part of a larger divergence between British and American interpretations of the British Constitution and the extent of Parliament's authority in the colonies.[7] The orthodox British view, dating from the Glorious Revolution of 1688, was that Parliament was the supreme authority throughout the empire, and so by definition anything Parliament did was constitutional.[8] In the colonies, however, the idea had developed that the British Constitution recognized certain fundamental rights that no government—not even Parliament—could violate.[9] After the Townshend Acts, some essayists even began to question whether Parliament had any legitimate jurisdiction in the colonies at all

Not so much about taxes. More about having a complete lack of democracy.

 

[Fern]

How much does society benefit from cheap immigrant labor, such as cheap food?

Not much in my opinion.

Firstly, only some crops even need be 'picked'. E.g., corn, wheat etc aren't picked. The harvesting/picking isn't a large part of the cost for many agri products anyway.

I find it curious liberals/progressives think we benefit from lower wages paid to illegal immigrants, but then turn around and promote higher minimum wages as benefiting us.

Fern

 

[Craig234]

Not much in my opinion.

Firstly, only some crops even need be 'picked'. E.g., corn, wheat etc aren't picked. The harvesting/picking isn't a large part of the cost for many agri products anyway.

I find it curious liberals/progressives think we benefit from lower wages paid to illegal immigrants, but then turn around and promote higher minimum wages as benefiting us.

Fern

There are many billions of dollars in the industry of 'picked' foods. The fact others aren't picked doesn't somehow make the ones that are disappear or less important.

You just don't understand the simple position, that explains both of the above and is consistent.

In the shorter term, lower wages profit the owners (and buyers of the product).

Think slave labor - a force out picking field, building buildings, and doing what ever other productive labor, for almost nothing - the cost of crappy housing and food.

Society benefits from that; it's just wrong to the slaves who are screwed.

It's the same principle; without the minimum wage we move that direction, we have more people who are 'getting screwed' in poverty, while the owners and consumers of their labor benefit by that. If a group of people making $10 billion a year take a 50% pay cut, they just enriched others by that $5 billion.

That's what cheap illegal immigrant labor does. It doesn't matter if they make $10 billion and paid $5 billion in taxes, or make $5 billion and pay no taxes, insofar as either is 'giving society' their labor for less than if they made the $10 billion after taxes. Their cheap wages are a form of taxation that society benefits from.

In both cases it's the same issue - the workers makes less and is more screwed and in poverty, and others benefit by that.

The point was that the people complaining about the costs of the illegal immigrants are not looking at the benefits of their cheap labor in the equation.

 

[ShawnD1]

I find it curious liberals/progressives think we benefit from lower wages paid to illegal immigrants, but then turn around and promote higher minimum wages as benefiting us.

Ya see, it's because Americans are the superior race and...