CA Special Election Results

[chowderhead]

Originally posted by: DragonMasterAlex

Originally posted by: chowderhead

Originally posted by: DragonMasterAlex

Originally posted by: alphatarget1
haven't really followed the election this year, but i think that arnold pissed off too many people at the same time. propositions he endorsed are mostly good, but most people see it as a waste of money.

the things arnold has been doing has been disappointing also, with the special interest giving him money and stuff. I'd like to see gerrymandering stopped, but i guess i'll have to wait for another time.

california democrats suck.

It's not so much that Arnold has done anything wrong, it's that the Unions have been lying their ASSES off on TV commercials for *months*. Eventually that crap adds up, and for whatever reason, Arnold's idiot staff didn't get his mug on the air to refute their lies. If he'd been on the air *regularly* and confronted the lies and challenged the LIARS, his ratings would have stayed sky-high.

More importantly, he should have had these issues on the ballot within 3 months of getting elected. There was NO CHANCE at that stage that even the best liars in the state, who primarily work for the Unions and OWN the Democrats and Republicans in California, could have defeated the propositions. Californians at that stage were *stoked* for a change and would have leapt for the chance to change the system.

Unfortunately, stupid people have short memories and are too politically ignorant to realize that all the problems Gray "Gumby" Davis left behind are still here--and the legislature LIKES it that way.

Californians just offered their well-lubed butts to the politicians on a platter. Congratulations, folks!

jason

that is your view. Arnold placed MANY issues and passed them the first year, namely the bond to paper over the state deficit. I voted for them because the alternative was worst. You can call people stupid, you may attack people for not voting the same way you did ... which is what happens when you legislate by initiatives. People vote. Don't like it. Tough. Come back with something that will get passed.

You also have revisionist history. You paint Arnold as some kind of defenseless victim of big bad union bosses. Arnold pissed off many groups with his actions - cutting education by 2 billion dollars, fighting nursing staffing laws and pension reforms. He called the legislature "girlie men" and wanted to kick their butts (as well as the nurse's union). You piss off too many groups, they will unite and return fire.

Do you remember that Arnold and the legislature worked together the first year? Did you hear Arnold talking about wanting to work with the legislature tonight?
Did you know that the Pharmaceutical companies spent the most amount of money of any group defeating Prop 79 Big Pharma spent 80 million dollars to defeat Prop 79

Unions are always outspent by corporate interest. What Arnold was trying to do was to punish and silence his critics and the people of California said no to his special election.
I take this defeat of all propositions on the ballot as a message to Arnold and the legislature to get back to work to do the people's business. I am encouraged by Arnold's words tonight about wanting to work with the legislature while you just want to vent and attack.

There you are with your LIES and PROPAGANDA, I see. Arnold DID NOT CUT EDUCATION SPENDING BY ONE DIME. He RAISED spending by THREE BILLION DOLLARS. In the original version of the budget the hope was to raise it by FIVE BILLION, but that proved to be impossible because CALIFORNIA IS BROKE. Morons like YOU can't seem to get it through your skulls that this is NOT A CUT. California spends more on education now THAN WE EVER HAVE. We spend more PER PUPIL now THAN WE EVER HAVE.

Arnold was NOT trying to silence his critics. That's a TINFOIL HAT conspiracy theory that only a genuine MORON would believe. Prop 75 did one thing and one thing ONLY: It made Unions ASK PERMISSION before taking money from members for political spending. It had NOTHING to do with silencing anyone.

Yes, he called the Legislature "Girlie Men", and they most certainly are. He never said a word about kicking their butts, stop exaggerating. As for the Nurse's Union, do you know how many they represent? About 60,000. You know how many nurses are in California? More than 300,000. The Nurse's Union represents LESS THAN 20% of all Nurses in California, and to arrive at the 20% number you have to assume that EVERY SINGLE ONE of their members agree with their DISHONEST tactics. I'd wager that not every one of them do.

The bright side of this election is that the public employees unions are now on the edge of bankruptcy. If Arnold's very smart, he'll put EVERY one of the important measures (74-77) on the June '06 ballot and push them HARD from January onward. Maybe they'll win, maybe they won't, but one thing's sure: The Unions will go financially bust, as they deserve to.

You talk of Arnold "working with the legislature", but we both know that's not what you want. What you want is for Arnold to BEND OVER for the legislature and do whatever they want--which is to say, do whatever the UNION BOSSES want. Frankly, I hope he passes 100% of the bills that the legislature sends to his desk. I hope he lists them on a website and gets on the news EVERY SINGLE DAY to tell us what the legislature sent, what it does and that he's signed off on it--because THAT is what you want. And when the state files for bankruptcy--as most of its largest counties are already on the brink of doing--I will just smile and enjoy the fact that YOU did it.

Jason

stop being a troll. I have already offered my suggestions on things to improve education, health care, transportation and fixing our budget. It is a blend of budget reforms and tax deductions (for health care) and tax increases (for cigarettes and alcohol and probably elsewhere) - you offered your critique of it in a previous thread. You have also attacked me and offered the great insight that you wished a pox on all our houses so California can go bankrupt. Why aren't you just as outraged that the federal government under GWB and a Republican Congress is spending like drunken sailors with increases in spending/government and tax cuts for everyone?

You don't know what I want so if we can't have a civil discussion, I bid you good evening.

 

[DragonMasterAlex]

Originally posted by: 0roo0roo

Ironic then that some of the best companies to work for on the planet are devoid of all union influences.

only because they either have to retain highly skilled employees with high wages because they are hard to replace, or because they are foreign like toyota and need to keep the good will going to stay, and fear the rise of a union if they mistreat their workers. you pretend that employers would treat their workers right if unions didn't exist? you must be joking.

Ah, yes, because 100% of ALL employers are just evil bastards waiting to rape the little girl down the street, right?

:roll:

Jason

 

[redgtxdi]

Originally posted by: Steeplerot
arnold progressive lol

Nef much?

 

[DragonMasterAlex]

Originally posted by: her209

Originally posted by: alphatarget1
I'm not exactly satisfied with arnold's performance, the very special interest he said he was going to fight against turns out to support him in donations and such. Still, I can't foresee democrats coming up with someone better than him. Who else doesn't take a salary to work as the governor? yeah, while you're at it, blame education on him too, because parents are doing such a STELLAR job disclipining their kids, and teachers are SO qualified that we should keep them around forever.

I personally hope Warren Beatty runs come next year.

Me too, it will be HILARIOUS to watch him get defeated

Jason

 

[DragonMasterAlex]

Originally posted by: Steeplerot

Originally posted by: DragonMasterAlex

Originally posted by: arsbanned
Ahnold, along with the rest of the Bush people out there, are gonna get thrown out. I'm voting against ANY Republican sponsored initiatives on principle. Any vote for any Republican issue is a vote for Bush.
So much for his mandate....

Ah yes, because political parties are now RELIGIONS, right? It's precisely DUMBASSES like you, both Democrat and Republican alike, who SCREW Democracy over, STAB the progressive cause in the back and work diligently to DESTROY Liberty at every turn.

You're a disgusting example of the WORST kind of human being.

Jason

Your not so hot yourself either..

Maybe, maybe not--but at least *I* didn't betray the cause of Progressivism. At least *I* didn't vote to MAINTAIN THE STATUS QUO. I stood for CHANGE, because the current system is BROKEN.

Jason

 

[DragonMasterAlex]

Originally posted by: Steeplerot
arnold progressive lol

arnold is progressivly filling his pockets, thats it.

Yeah, his $1 a year salary...sure is filling up those pockets fast! :roll:

Jason

 

[DragonMasterAlex]

Originally posted by: alphatarget1

Originally posted by: DragonMasterAlex

Originally posted by: alphatarget1
haven't really followed the election this year, but i think that arnold pissed off too many people at the same time. propositions he endorsed are mostly good, but most people see it as a waste of money.

the things arnold has been doing has been disappointing also, with the special interest giving him money and stuff. I'd like to see gerrymandering stopped, but i guess i'll have to wait for another time.

california democrats suck.

I think there is a lot to this election, and much of it is that while the Evil Unions were airing their lies, distortions and fearmongering commercials, Arnold's people sat on their asses and ignored them, apparently assuming that a last-minute swarm of signs and commercials would bring people around. They were obviously WRONG.

74-77 were *No brainers* that should have passed with 70% or more of the vote. It's true that a lot of people thought of the election as unneccessary and a waste of time--mostly thanks to the lying Unions and their propaganda. By turning out and saying "No" to those props, they *guaranteed* that it was a waste of time. If they truly wanted that money spent to be *worthwhile* all they had to do was tick the YES box. They were too stupid to do that.

Frankly, I say to hell with California and it's citizens. I'm probably moving out of state to go to another school anyway, so it's neither here nor there to me. It's just sad and pathetic that the Unions and Politicians effectively told California's citizens, "Bend over, guys! You don't want Democracy or responsible government spending anyway!" and, like the bobble-heads that most Californians are, they just smiled, bobbed and went butts-up.

Some folks think, "We stuck it to Arnold!" No, people, no. Arnold has over $100,000,000 of his own money. He can buy a house anywhere on earth. He can LIVE anywhere on earth. If the economy takes a dump, his bills will be paid *regardless*.

You DID stick it to someone though: You stuck it to yourselves, to your friends, your children, your parents. Good job.

Jason

Where do you go to school at? I'm planning to move out of california for graduate school as well.

I'm actually looking into another art school over in Florida. It's only 2 years worth, but it should add some good animation/film design skills to my repertoire and help me work my way out of IT and into Game Development.

Jason

 

[DragonMasterAlex]

Originally posted by: chowderhead

Originally posted by: DragonMasterAlex

Originally posted by: chowderhead

Originally posted by: DragonMasterAlex

Originally posted by: alphatarget1
haven't really followed the election this year, but i think that arnold pissed off too many people at the same time. propositions he endorsed are mostly good, but most people see it as a waste of money.

the things arnold has been doing has been disappointing also, with the special interest giving him money and stuff. I'd like to see gerrymandering stopped, but i guess i'll have to wait for another time.

california democrats suck.

It's not so much that Arnold has done anything wrong, it's that the Unions have been lying their ASSES off on TV commercials for *months*. Eventually that crap adds up, and for whatever reason, Arnold's idiot staff didn't get his mug on the air to refute their lies. If he'd been on the air *regularly* and confronted the lies and challenged the LIARS, his ratings would have stayed sky-high.

More importantly, he should have had these issues on the ballot within 3 months of getting elected. There was NO CHANCE at that stage that even the best liars in the state, who primarily work for the Unions and OWN the Democrats and Republicans in California, could have defeated the propositions. Californians at that stage were *stoked* for a change and would have leapt for the chance to change the system.

Unfortunately, stupid people have short memories and are too politically ignorant to realize that all the problems Gray "Gumby" Davis left behind are still here--and the legislature LIKES it that way.

Californians just offered their well-lubed butts to the politicians on a platter. Congratulations, folks!

jason

that is your view. Arnold placed MANY issues and passed them the first year, namely the bond to paper over the state deficit. I voted for them because the alternative was worst. You can call people stupid, you may attack people for not voting the same way you did ... which is what happens when you legislate by initiatives. People vote. Don't like it. Tough. Come back with something that will get passed.

You also have revisionist history. You paint Arnold as some kind of defenseless victim of big bad union bosses. Arnold pissed off many groups with his actions - cutting education by 2 billion dollars, fighting nursing staffing laws and pension reforms. He called the legislature "girlie men" and wanted to kick their butts (as well as the nurse's union). You piss off too many groups, they will unite and return fire.

Do you remember that Arnold and the legislature worked together the first year? Did you hear Arnold talking about wanting to work with the legislature tonight?
Did you know that the Pharmaceutical companies spent the most amount of money of any group defeating Prop 79 Big Pharma spent 80 million dollars to defeat Prop 79

Unions are always outspent by corporate interest. What Arnold was trying to do was to punish and silence his critics and the people of California said no to his special election.
I take this defeat of all propositions on the ballot as a message to Arnold and the legislature to get back to work to do the people's business. I am encouraged by Arnold's words tonight about wanting to work with the legislature while you just want to vent and attack.

There you are with your LIES and PROPAGANDA, I see. Arnold DID NOT CUT EDUCATION SPENDING BY ONE DIME. He RAISED spending by THREE BILLION DOLLARS. In the original version of the budget the hope was to raise it by FIVE BILLION, but that proved to be impossible because CALIFORNIA IS BROKE. Morons like YOU can't seem to get it through your skulls that this is NOT A CUT. California spends more on education now THAN WE EVER HAVE. We spend more PER PUPIL now THAN WE EVER HAVE.

Arnold was NOT trying to silence his critics. That's a TINFOIL HAT conspiracy theory that only a genuine MORON would believe. Prop 75 did one thing and one thing ONLY: It made Unions ASK PERMISSION before taking money from members for political spending. It had NOTHING to do with silencing anyone.

Yes, he called the Legislature "Girlie Men", and they most certainly are. He never said a word about kicking their butts, stop exaggerating. As for the Nurse's Union, do you know how many they represent? About 60,000. You know how many nurses are in California? More than 300,000. The Nurse's Union represents LESS THAN 20% of all Nurses in California, and to arrive at the 20% number you have to assume that EVERY SINGLE ONE of their members agree with their DISHONEST tactics. I'd wager that not every one of them do.

The bright side of this election is that the public employees unions are now on the edge of bankruptcy. If Arnold's very smart, he'll put EVERY one of the important measures (74-77) on the June '06 ballot and push them HARD from January onward. Maybe they'll win, maybe they won't, but one thing's sure: The Unions will go financially bust, as they deserve to.

You talk of Arnold "working with the legislature", but we both know that's not what you want. What you want is for Arnold to BEND OVER for the legislature and do whatever they want--which is to say, do whatever the UNION BOSSES want. Frankly, I hope he passes 100% of the bills that the legislature sends to his desk. I hope he lists them on a website and gets on the news EVERY SINGLE DAY to tell us what the legislature sent, what it does and that he's signed off on it--because THAT is what you want. And when the state files for bankruptcy--as most of its largest counties are already on the brink of doing--I will just smile and enjoy the fact that YOU did it.

Jason

stop being a troll. I have already offered my suggestions on things to improve education, health care, transportation and fixing our budget. It is a blend of budget reforms and tax deductions (for health care) and tax increases (for cigarettes and alcohol and probably elsewhere) - you offered your critique of it in a previous thread. You have also attacked me and offered the great insight that you wished a pox on all our houses so California can go bankrupt. Why aren't you just as outraged that the federal government under GWB and a Republican Congress is spending like drunken sailors with increases in spending/government and tax cuts for everyone?

You don't know what I want so if we can't have a civil discussion, I bid you good evening.

Are you kidding? Of *COURSE* I'm outraged at the Federal Government and that MORON GWB. Only the mosy sycophantic of Kool-Aid drinkers is enamored of that jackass. The primary difference I see there is that I think the "War on Terror", including Iraq, may be the ONLY legitimate action Bush has taken. Of course, since everyone's focused on Iraq, most people completely ignore his failings and flaws here in the states, where he refuses to enforce border security, increases subsidies for farmers and other special interests, looks the other way while huge, corrupt businesses run amuck and ignores *decent* businesses--large and small, and yes, they both exist--needs as the economy spirals down into oblivion. Suffice to say, I LOATHE George Bush.

George Bush, however IS NOT ARNOLD. The fact that they both have an R by their names does NOT make them the same, neither in person nor in ideology and CLEARLY not in motivation, any more than you'd claim that Bill Clinton and Strom Thurmond were the same because they both had a D by their names.

This partisan love-in, where people act as if their party is some sort of deity who can do no wrong, may be the single most destructive force in the US today, and any THINKING individual is repulsed by it.

Jason

 

[alphatarget1]

Originally posted by: BaliBabyDoc
Schwarzenegger had neither the intellect nor moral authority to push his agenda. This outcome was obvious from the outset.

Wow, talk about someone being biased.

What he SHOULD have done?

1) Overall, wait for a regular election cycle. There was no reason to rush besides his desire for some sort of "victory" before running for re-election.

Agreed.

2) Prop 74 - convene a special commission of elite CA teachers, administrators, and education researchers to develop a plan of how to improve CA schools. This commission would then submit proposals back to the Governor and Legislature. As a former schoolteacher, I'm sure any decent instructor would agree that 2 years is not long enough to demonstrate competency sufficient to justify tenure. But Schwarzenegger's approach was just plain dumb.

How was it "dumb"? One of the education's biggest flaw is the lack of parental involvement, IMO. Also, many teachers in CA are not exactly bright.

3) Prop 75 - require ALL public AND private unions AND corporations to get specific written consent of members/shareholders before giving political contributions. Schwarzenegger was 100% hypocrite on 75. Many of his policy initiatives have been bankrolled by business groups (special interests). Unions would have still complained but IMO most Californians would think it's a good idea to reduce the influence of unions AND businesses in politics.

Generally agreed, although I despise many union workers and I think a lot of them are nothing but a bunch of lazy fvcks. Public employees (aside from cops and fire fighters, which arnold should've left alone when he tried to reform pension.) should have no right to b!tch, they have the easiest job on the planet and are overpaid.

4) Prop 76 - just plain stupid and hypocritical since Schwarzenegger's early budget success?? was achieved with the type of borrowing/budgeting that he seeks to abolish. It would have made more sense to be honest and ask CA to repeal the previous ballot initiatives responsible for several of CA's budget problems. Regardless, some of the items would have been approved individually but were dragged into the abyss by retarded riders.

Any politicians trying to repeal Prop 13 is effectively committing political suicide. I don't see anything wrong with the balanced budget amendment but it comes down to the fact that many Californians want more than what they put in.

5) Prop 77 - should wait until next Census. Rush to implementation reeks of political opportunism. Why not a panel of retired schoolteachers, farmers, or doctors? Retired judges were selected under the auspices that they were nonpartisan . . . Judge Starr, Judge Bork, Judge Cornyn . . . nonpartisan my arse. Pick a 4-person panel (MD, JD, schoolteacher, and a homemaker) that are not registered to the two major parties. Chair the group with the governor but his/her vote still just counts as 1. My guess is the people will use common sense to draw districts.

How would schoolteachers, homemakers or even doctors be qualified to draw districts? They don't know enough about the geographical and cultural landscapes of CA. If you voted against this you're either a blind partisan hack or just plain stupid.

These props failed b/c some were bad ideas and others were badly executed. The fatal flaw was the primary advocate.

Yeah, hate on Arnold all you want, the fact is that he's hated by both republicans and democrats, and that says a lot about him. At least he has the balls to try to reform california from jackass politicians.