Buttigieg and homophobia

woolfe9998

Lifer
Apr 8, 2013
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I've been reading numerous articles lately about why Pete Buttigieg has like literally zero support among African Americans (one poll says he is a statistical zero among AA voters in SC, for example.) I've heard numerous explanations attempted, but all are illogical for one reason or another.

One posited that they don't dislike Buttigieg so much as they really like Biden. The reasons they like Biden do make some sense, but this isn't a logical explanation given that other candidates not named Biden are doing better with black voters than Buttigieg.

Another links it to comments he made in 2011 which some blacks think are offensive. The problem is those comments only came out three weeks ago and he already had zero black support prior to that.

Another says he is considered a product of "white privilege." Yeah, but then why is Biden not also a product of that same white privilege?

Yet another links it to his demotion of a black police chief in South Bend. But the police chief had engaged in illegal wiretapping and was facing federal criminal charges. Arguably, the demotion saved him from being prosecuted. And in any event, this singular episode is nowhere near as concerning as Harris' regressive record as AG in CA. While Harris didn't do great with black voters prior to dropping out, she still did better than Buttigieg.

The last one I read hilariously suggests that Buttigieg is too white because his skin is "pasty." So if he gets a tan his numbers among black voters will improve? LOL

These explanations sound like the media thrashing around looking for "reasons" other than homophobia because they don't want to say that homophobia is a bigger problem among blacks than other ethnic groups. When they address the issue at all, it is to quote Al Sharpton saying that homophobia in the black community is overstated but offering no comparative polling data to back it up.

Here's one. In 2008 we passed Prop 8 here in CA which banned gay marriage in one of the most progressive states in the country, at a time when about half the general population of the country supported gay marriage. It barely passed only because 61% of CA blacks voted yes, and 52% of Hispanics, but whites voted no by a 5 point margin. And I would expect blacks in CA to be more socially liberal than blacks in say, SC.

Black voters aren't the only issue, either. I know more than one white democrat who doesn't want to vote for Buttigieg in the primary because of other people's homophobia. My wife is from the mid west, and she says the white working class union voters are culturally conservative and will never vote for a gay candidate. She thinks he can't win the swing states so she'll likely vote for Biden, even though she thinks Buttigieg is a superior candidate and would make a better POTUS.

All of this has nothing to do with his weak support among younger voters which is about him not being far enough to the left. Biden also has the same issue.

So is the country not ready for an LGBT POTUS? If so, it's pretty sad.
 

Bitek

Lifer
Aug 2, 2001
10,676
5,239
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I've wondered about it, but IDK.

I was reading some other articles how left wing prog groups are also coming after him hard, and his support among youth voters is rather low considering Butti is same generation.

It's rather unhinged stuff, but Warren's crash may be sending shockwaves, maybe it's more.
 

woolfe9998

Lifer
Apr 8, 2013
16,242
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I've wondered about it, but IDK.

I was reading some other articles how left wing prog groups are also coming after him hard, and his support among youth voters is rather low considering Butti is same generation.

It's rather unhinged stuff, but Warren's crash may be sending shockwaves, maybe it's more.

None which explains why he does so poorly with black voters, who I'm told tend to favor more moderate candidates, such as Biden.

This isn't really about why he isn't doing well with younger voters. That is because he isn't far enough left, but that is an entirely separate issue.
 
Nov 8, 2012
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You can stand behind your WE LOVE IMMIGRANTS! message all you want - the majority that come in from 3rd world countries are generally uneducated and highly religious.

So yeah, ready to let them flood in? ;)
 
Nov 8, 2012
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None which explains why he does so poorly with black voters, who I'm told tend to favor more moderate candidates, such as Biden.

This isn't really about why he isn't doing well with younger voters. That is because he isn't far enough left, but that is an entirely separate issue.

Because he is atleast HALFWAY realistic in life and doesn't say FREE This! Free That! every 5 seconds?
 

woolfe9998

Lifer
Apr 8, 2013
16,242
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You can stand behind you're WE LOVE IMMIGRANTS! message all you want - the majority that come in from 3rd world countries are generally uneducated and highly religious.

So yeah, ready to let them flood in? ;)

The black population here contains very few recent immigrants so this doesn't explain his low support among that bloc of voters.
 

dainthomas

Lifer
Dec 7, 2004
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Yet another links it to his demotion of a black police chief in South Bend. But the police chief had engaged in illegal wiretapping and was facing federal criminal charges. Arguably, the demotion saved him from being prosecuted. And in any event, this singular episode is nowhere near as concerning as Harris' regressive record as AG in CA. While Harris didn't do great with black voters prior to dropping out, she still did better than Buttigieg.

Part of it might be the firing, but I think most of it related to that incident was him not firing the racist cops the chief was wiretapping.

Edit - The reason I don't like him is the fact that he's taking piles of Wall Street bucks.
 

woolfe9998

Lifer
Apr 8, 2013
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The point being is that the more religious one is, the higher the probability that they would vote against an outspoken LGBT candidate or a Prop 8, etc.

This isn't rocket science: https://www.pewforum.org/2009/01/30/a-religious-portrait-of-african-americans/

Which means you accept my premise that the reason is homophobia and are offering higher than average religiosity among blacks as the reason. Might be. I do find curious, however, that blacks Christians don't follow white Christians on the issue of abortion at all and are more in line with white liberals on the issue.


Which suggests to me that the homophobia might be cultural as much as religious.
 

Bitek

Lifer
Aug 2, 2001
10,676
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None which explains why he does so poorly with black voters, who I'm told tend to favor more moderate candidates, such as Biden.

This isn't really about why he isn't doing well with younger voters. That is because he isn't far enough left, but that is an entirely separate issue.

Maybe, maybe not.

I'd be careful laying it all on homophobia when he's unpopular with other groups unless we're making the same attributions.

Could be he's just a white AF Midwesterner with little appeal to southern blacks.

An issue, sure, but not his only one.
 

woolfe9998

Lifer
Apr 8, 2013
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Part of it might be the firing, but I think most of it related to that incident was him not firing the racist cops the chief was wiretapping.

So you think this entirely explains him having zero support among black voters? I'm skeptical.
 

woolfe9998

Lifer
Apr 8, 2013
16,242
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Maybe, maybe not.

I'd be careful laying it all on homophobia when he's unpopular with other groups unless we're making the attributions.

Could be he's just a white AF Midwesterner with little appeal to southern blacks.

An issue, sure, but not his only one.

Little appeal to blacks anywhere, not just southern blacks.

Not sure what his low support among younger voters has to do with this. That is a problem for Biden too. He does poorly with younger voters BUT he does very, very well with black voters. These are different reasons for different voting blocs. It's not all the same reason.
 

dainthomas

Lifer
Dec 7, 2004
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So you think this entirely explains him having zero support among black voters? I'm skeptical.

Seems like the most glaring issue I've seen. His campaign staff is obviously super aware of it (whatever the reason), since every time he's on TV they find a way to have African Americans in the shot.
 

woolfe9998

Lifer
Apr 8, 2013
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Seems like the most glaring issue I've seen. His campaign staff is obviously super aware of it (whatever the reason), since every time he's on TV they find a way to have African Americans in the shot.

They're super aware of his poor numbers among blacks, which is why they have an African American in every shot. The reason for it is what's under discussion.

I'm not discounting it as a non-factor. I'm still skeptical that it is the entire explanation.
 
Nov 8, 2012
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Which means you accept my premise that the reason is homophobia and are offering higher than average religiosity among blacks as the reason. Might be. I do find curious, however, that blacks Christians don't follow white Christians on the issue of abortion at all and are more in line with white liberals on the issue.


Which suggests to me that the homophobia might be cultural as much as religious.

Religious people are hypocrites, news at 11?
 

sportage

Lifer
Feb 1, 2008
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Pete will definitely have huge problems with BLACK WOMEN more so than black men.
And I really question the importance of the black vote, anyway.
Blacks came out for Obama but not so much for Hillary or any other white candidate. And I really doubt blacks will turn out for Joe Biden as much as people expect.

One wild card in this race would be if it were Pete Buttigieg to run against Donald Trump. Enough people just might come out to put Pete over the top. Pete as the first "admittedly" gay president just may be enough of a draw as was Donald Trump in 2016 for being the first TV celebrity as president.
I think a lot of people went for Trump in 2016 because they knew Trump from Reality TV. He was a celebrity.
Well, most of that fun has worn off for a lot of Americans, but Pete and the gay thing just could replace celebrity.
A gay man and his gay partner as president and first partner.....?
It just might work!
 

Bitek

Lifer
Aug 2, 2001
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Seems like the most glaring issue I've seen. His campaign staff is obviously super aware of it (whatever the reason), since every time he's on TV they find a way to have African Americans in the shot.

Yup. And this "Douglas" plan. And some of the videos he tried making hanging out with black dudes at the park, and a number of other attempts ...

I'm not surprised that there was some initial skepticism for a variety of reasons, but then he's done very little to actually make himself more appealing rather than just seem he's trying too hard or even he's a bit fake about it.
 
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ivwshane

Lifer
May 15, 2000
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Is there another candidate other than Biden who has any meaningful support by black people? That seems like a demo that everyone is having issues appealing to.
 

VRAMdemon

Diamond Member
Aug 16, 2012
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It may be a combination of him being gay and that he's mayor of a city that's still perceived as having problems with race relations. I think rational people understand Pete's not racist and it's not Pete's fault that South Bend is dealing with these issues, but there are questions about how he's responded to some of the controversies, and "I didn't get it done," as admirable as his integrity may be, is not necessarily the answer that these people want to hear. The answer is hard to pin down.
 

dank69

Lifer
Oct 6, 2009
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It is a combination of homophobia and low information. If you don't pay attention to politics then Biden is the only candidate you've ever heard of. In fact, I'd be willing to bet most black voters don't even know he is gay. I bet most voters period don't know he is gay.
 
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woolfe9998

Lifer
Apr 8, 2013
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Is there another candidate other than Biden who has any meaningful support by black people? That seems like a demo that everyone is having issues appealing to.

Biden is polling at 40% among black voters. That is the highest of any candidate, but there are still 60% supporting other candidates. Buttigieg has none of them.
 

woolfe9998

Lifer
Apr 8, 2013
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It is a combination of homophobia and low information. If you don't pay attention to politics then Biden is the only candidate you've ever heard of. In fact, I'd be willing to bet most black voters don't even know he is gay. I bet most voters period don't know he is gay.

Haha at this point I highly doubt that. I'm sure some do not. But for every voter who doesn't know he's gay, there's probably 3 who know nothing about his firing of the black police chief in South Bend.
 

dank69

Lifer
Oct 6, 2009
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Haha at this point I highly doubt that. I'm sure some do not. But for every voter who doesn't know he's gay, there's probably 3 who know nothing about his firing of the black police chief in South Bend.
Your estimates sound about right to me, but my main point stands. I think Biden does well with them because he is the only one many of them have ever heard of.