But there's no reasoning with the elderly on...

[CADsortaGUY]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY

Originally posted by: 1EZduzit
Anybody who repeatedly calls me a thief is going to be in trouble in a face to face encounter. Simple as that.

I do believe I said you advocate the theft. But hey, if you and red need to resort to physical intimidation because you run out of substance - then so be it...

<- trembling

CsG

:roll:
First of all how do you physically intimidate someone over the Internet? Secondly I know I never threatened you, all I said is why don't you respond to me here like you would in person. I think you are just being extremely petty especially when I was trying to engage you in an honest and frank conversation without the little insults and innuendos. In fact I thought we kind of came to a meeting of the minds regarding this topic, you know that the best thing to come out of this situation is that the issue of correcting SS was turned into a major issue.

I do know that one side accusing the Baby Boomers and Elderly of being at fault and the other side calling Gen X a bunch of spoiled selfish brats isn't going to accomplish a damn thing.

:roll: Nice backtrack on your e-thugness. While I know you were both not actually threatening me, it's hilarious that you both thought your physical presence would somehow change what I say or think.

True, engaging the elderly with reasoned debate isn't possible if they won't even entertain change - which is what what we find here. This has never been about "fault" - it's about accepting the reality of the situation. Do I blame each individual? Heck no - but I do blame the overall attitude those of "advanced age" seem to have regarding entitlements. Entitlements will bankrupt the gov't - just as they have bankrupted big corporations. A gov't or company can't continue to pay those who no longer put into the system. Call it mean, throw nasty names around, or whatever you wish - that's the truth of the matter. Now can we come up with a system that doesn't burden those who put into the system while taking care of those who can't provide for themselves when they hit an advanced age - damn straight we can. But the problem comes in when the aged won't even admit there is a problem or allow anything to be done about it.

CsG

 

[Steeplerot]

not pissing what we have away would be a first step.

 

[Genx87]

Originally posted by: BBond

Originally posted by: Genx87


What is your great plan to fix the system?

Eliminate the FICA cap on income until the system reaches parity.

Problem solved.

Proof?

They did this before and it didnt fix the system. They have been doing this since the first tax came out that was a total of about 2% of your wages. What makes you think raising it will somehow fix it in the future? Are you expecting raising the FICA tax on the top 5% of this country will somehow generate a trillion in revenues to fix it?

 

[Genx87]

Originally posted by: Steeplerot
not pissing what we have away would be a first step.

You cant be this clueless about the current and future situation can you?

You are just throwing out talking points with nothing to back them up. I want you to tell us your plan not some rehashed snipe. At least BBond had a plan even if it was flawed.

 

[CADsortaGUY]

Originally posted by: BBond

Originally posted by: Genx87


What is your great plan to fix the system?

Eliminate the FICA cap on income until the system reaches parity.

Problem solved.

No it wouldn't. The problem is in the system - not the funding. Throwing more money at it doesn't "fix" anything. I thought you were around in '83... :roll:

CsG

 

[Steeplerot]

yeah like when raygun's neocons screwed the economy last time, good job with the savings and loans, looks like the only profit raygun made was coke deals to contras and WMD and guns to iraq and iran. some plan!

why feed the old people when we can KILL some funny colored people yeeee haaa!

*ca-ching ca-ching* goes the national debt!

no biggie we can just starve the americans who can't fight anyhow! -neocon economics

 

[BBond]

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: Steeplerot
and gambling our future is idiotic, and not even worth discussing.

we see how the GOP handles finances and grows the government to huge porportions.

maybe time for a real conservative then? imagine that!

So what is your realistic plan besides waiting for the implosion?

What "implosion"?

The one you and Bush imagine as an excuse to destroy Social Security?

 

[Zebo]

Originally posted by: BBond

Originally posted by: Genx87


What is your great plan to fix the system?

Eliminate the FICA cap on income until the system reaches parity.

Problem solved.

What's income?

Well there's not a problem yet, it runs a surplus. But the ideal plan would redefine what income is, eliminate the self employed double tax, and eliminate the cap.

There is simply waaay to many forms of income that are exempt. Only workers are taxed. You know Paris Hilton, worth 400million, pays ZIPPO SS taxes? You know if you rent 10 houses you pay zippo SS tax? You know if you sell your McDonalds Franchise for 2 million profit you pay zero in SS tax? The whole tax code needs to be addressed I think More flat, but also less exemptions.

 

[Genx87]

Originally posted by: BBond

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: Steeplerot
and gambling our future is idiotic, and not even worth discussing.

we see how the GOP handles finances and grows the government to huge porportions.

maybe time for a real conservative then? imagine that!

So what is your realistic plan besides waiting for the implosion?

What "implosion"?

The one you and Bush imagine as an excuse to destroy Social Security?

I dont know maybe when we start having to fund SS from more borrowing or directly from tax revenues after 2018? Sure it will start off small at about 6 billion a year but by the mid 2020s it will ramp up to the tune of about 2-300 billion and by 2040 about 1 trillion.

You dont think having to find 1 trillion extra to fund SS is an implosion? Especially considering how we run deficits now with a SS surplus to rape.

 

[BBond]

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: BBond

Originally posted by: Genx87


What is your great plan to fix the system?

Eliminate the FICA cap on income until the system reaches parity.

Problem solved.

Proof?

They did this before and it didnt fix the system. They have been doing this since the first tax came out that was a total of about 2% of your wages. What makes you think raising it will somehow fix it in the future? Are you expecting raising the FICA tax on the top 5% of this country will somehow generate a trillion in revenues to fix it?

Don't make up BS. They NEVER tried this before.

Bush asked for ideas. Said he'd listen to any and all ideas. A Democrat made this proposal and I posted it here at P&N. He claimed his plan would solve the problem and it will.

Why don't you search P&N for it? I'm tired of posting the same proof for you people who are too lazy to read and too stubborn to admith you're wrong.

 

[1EZduzit]

Originally posted by: Steeplerot
becasue of your very lack therof ideas except the braindead catchphrases idiots like bush use.
thus you are a bush shill with nothing to contribute but division in our country.

 

[Steeplerot]

look at savings and loans and you will see why people wouldn't want the GOP pissing our money away. They took it all!

 

[Genx87]

Originally posted by: Zebo

Originally posted by: BBond

Originally posted by: Genx87


What is your great plan to fix the system?

Eliminate the FICA cap on income until the system reaches parity.

Problem solved.

What's income?

Well there's not a problem yet, it runs a surplus. But the ideal plan would redefine what income is, eliminate the self employed double tax, and eliminate the cap.

There is simply waaay to many forms of income that are exempt. Only workers are taxed. You know Paris Hilton, worth 400million, pays ZIPPO SS taxes? You know if you rent 10 houses you pay zippo SS tax? You know if you sell your McDonalds Franchise for 2 million profit you pay zero in SS tax? The whole tax code needs to be addressed I think More flat, but also less exemptions.

That is the funny part about people trying to get at the rich. The rich wont let you have their money, they will find ways to hide it.

Taxing upper middle class will only slow the growth of the middle class into the upper middle class. The rich will find trust fund and offshore accounts to hide their wealth.

John F. Kerry and his wife paid 11% federal tax rate in 2003 on 5.6 million income.
These people arent dumb and will find ways to make money that isnt taxable.

I think playing the class war isnt the solution at all. All it does is waste time instead of fixing the system.

 

[Steeplerot]

but, as it always will be is in a corrupt capitalist society is nothing but a class war.

dog out the poor blame them for being lazy, while you jack the middle class for all they are worth. now the elderly whoo hoo the neocons never had it better!

 

[Genx87]

Originally posted by: BBond

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: BBond

Originally posted by: Genx87


What is your great plan to fix the system?

Eliminate the FICA cap on income until the system reaches parity.

Problem solved.

Proof?

They did this before and it didnt fix the system. They have been doing this since the first tax came out that was a total of about 2% of your wages. What makes you think raising it will somehow fix it in the future? Are you expecting raising the FICA tax on the top 5% of this country will somehow generate a trillion in revenues to fix it?

Don't make up BS. They NEVER tried this before.

Bush asked for ideas. Said he'd listen to any and all ideas. A Democrat made this proposal and I posted it here at P&N. He claimed his plan would solve the problem and it will.

Why don't you search P&N for it? I'm tired of posting the same proof for you people who are too lazy to read and too stubborn to admith you're wrong.

Eh? First off the FICA was originally tax upto about 10000 income and was a rate at about 1.2%.

They have been upping the thing ever since its inception. The system is flawed obviously and needs to be fixed.

 

[Genx87]

Originally posted by: Steeplerot
look at savings and loans and you will see why people wouldn't want the GOP pissing our money away. They took it all!

What is your plan?

I see you cant come up with one.

 

[Steeplerot]

I already told you. Stop pissing the money away on petty wars.
feeding the neocons pockets. are you daft?

 

[BBond]

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: BBond

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: Steeplerot
and gambling our future is idiotic, and not even worth discussing.

we see how the GOP handles finances and grows the government to huge porportions.

maybe time for a real conservative then? imagine that!

So what is your realistic plan besides waiting for the implosion?

What "implosion"?

The one you and Bush imagine as an excuse to destroy Social Security?

I dont know maybe when we start having to fund SS from more borrowing or directly from tax revenues after 2018? Sure it will start off small at about 6 billion a year but by the mid 2020s it will ramp up to the tune of about 2-300 billion and by 2040 about 1 trillion.

You dont think having to find 1 trillion extra to fund SS is an implosion? Especially considering how we run deficits now with a SS surplus to rape.

If you're saying 200 -300 billion up to 1 trillion per year I'd like to see YOUR proof.

Even if you were right, and you're not, we could have started by saving $300 billion on an unnecessary invasion.

 

[Genx87]

Originally posted by: Steeplerot
I already told you. Stop pissing the money away on petty wars.
feeding the neocons pockets. are you daft?

How does that plan fix SS?

And you callme daft?

 

[Steeplerot]

yeah I do, it's the same scam, you b1tch at us for not having faith in our proud american economy in threads then you tell us our economy is fuxx0red.
daft is the word for someone who just doesent get it.
it's the greedy sonsab1tches profiting off the war pouring tons of cash money without accountability.

same old sh1t as raygun. that help? I know your a bit slow.

 

[Zebo]

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: BBond

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: BBond

Originally posted by: Genx87


What is your great plan to fix the system?

Eliminate the FICA cap on income until the system reaches parity.

Problem solved.

Proof?

They did this before and it didnt fix the system. They have been doing this since the first tax came out that was a total of about 2% of your wages. What makes you think raising it will somehow fix it in the future? Are you expecting raising the FICA tax on the top 5% of this country will somehow generate a trillion in revenues to fix it?

Don't make up BS. They NEVER tried this before.

Bush asked for ideas. Said he'd listen to any and all ideas. A Democrat made this proposal and I posted it here at P&N. He claimed his plan would solve the problem and it will.

Why don't you search P&N for it? I'm tired of posting the same proof for you people who are too lazy to read and too stubborn to admith you're wrong.

Eh? First off the FICA was originally tax upto about 10000 income and was a rate at about 1.2%.

They have been upping the thing ever since its inception. The system is flawed obviously and needs to be fixed.

Yea we also had 90% tax rates on the rich until Kennedy cut it to 73%.. I don't see y'all argueing for that again. The tax burden has shifted in this country from the ultra wealthy to the middle and upper middle class which is a sad story IMO. They pay too much..

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY

Originally posted by: 1EZduzit
Anybody who repeatedly calls me a thief is going to be in trouble in a face to face encounter. Simple as that.

I do believe I said you advocate the theft. But hey, if you and red need to resort to physical intimidation because you run out of substance - then so be it...

<- trembling

CsG

:roll:
First of all how do you physically intimidate someone over the Internet? Secondly I know I never threatened you, all I said is why don't you respond to me here like you would in person. I think you are just being extremely petty especially when I was trying to engage you in an honest and frank conversation without the little insults and innuendos. In fact I thought we kind of came to a meeting of the minds regarding this topic, you know that the best thing to come out of this situation is that the issue of correcting SS was turned into a major issue.

I do know that one side accusing the Baby Boomers and Elderly of being at fault and the other side calling Gen X a bunch of spoiled selfish brats isn't going to accomplish a damn thing.

:roll: Nice backtrack on your e-thugness. While I know you were both not actually threatening me, it's hilarious that you both thought your physical presence would somehow change what I say or think.

All I said is that you wouldn't be as arrogant if you were talking to me or anyone else in person if you were raised right which by the way I believe you were. Tell me, do you actually insult someones intelligence or Character when you discuss politics in person? I bet you don't. Keep in mind that I am probably a good 20 years your senior, way beyond being at the age getting in a fight because someone dissed me. I might be bigger than you (just trying to beat advancing age the best I can) but I also don't recover as well as you:laugh: If I were you I wouldn't be intimidated by me either

True, engaging the elderly with reasoned debate isn't possible if they won't even entertain change - which is what what we find here. This has never been about "fault" - it's about accepting the reality of the situation. Do I blame each individual? Heck no - but I do blame the overall attitude those of "advanced age" seem to have regarding entitlements. Entitlements will bankrupt the gov't - just as they have bankrupted big corporations. A gov't or company can't continue to pay those who no longer put into the system. Call it mean, throw nasty names around, or whatever you wish - that's the truth of the matter. Now can we come up with a system that doesn't burden those who put into the system while taking care of those who can't provide for themselves when they hit an advanced age - damn straight we can. But the problem comes in when the aged won't even admit there is a problem or allow anything to be done about it.

CsG

Well if there is a Generation that deserves to be entitled it is the "Elderly" who did after all give their all to save us the following generations from World Tyranny. Most of them have only been paid lip service for their sacrifice and it's understandable that they don't trust the Boomers and the following Generations.

As for us Boomers, well we should take into consideration the welfare of the latter Generations as all we did was bore them and give them bad examples for the most part. Of course as time goers on we will be the deciding factor on how things work out (hey it's Boomers who came up with this current idea)

 

[Genx87]

Originally posted by: BBond

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: BBond

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: Steeplerot
and gambling our future is idiotic, and not even worth discussing.

we see how the GOP handles finances and grows the government to huge porportions.

maybe time for a real conservative then? imagine that!

So what is your realistic plan besides waiting for the implosion?

What "implosion"?

The one you and Bush imagine as an excuse to destroy Social Security?

I dont know maybe when we start having to fund SS from more borrowing or directly from tax revenues after 2018? Sure it will start off small at about 6 billion a year but by the mid 2020s it will ramp up to the tune of about 2-300 billion and by 2040 about 1 trillion.

You dont think having to find 1 trillion extra to fund SS is an implosion? Especially considering how we run deficits now with a SS surplus to rape.

If you're saying 200 -300 billion up to 1 trillion per year I'd like to see YOUR proof.

Even if you were right, and you're not, we could have started by saving $300 billion on an unnecessary invasion.

Trustee report had revenues vs outlays for the next 70 years for both medicare and SS.
And yes it is nearly 1 trillion a year in 2040 and by 2080 Medicare + SS will top 20 trillion a year shortfall.

btw here is some information on FICA hikes over the years

http://www.nrln.org/SocailSecuirtyHistory.htm

On January 1, 1937 the tax rate to employees and employers was 1% of earnings up to a maximum of $3000.00/year. On January 1, 2005 the rate stands at 7.65% to employee and employer and the self-employed pay a tax of 15.30%. This rate includes Health Insurance (HI) that was added to the program in 1966. The earnings cap is $90,000.00 on the OASDI portion and with no income cap on the HI portion. The OASDI now has an annual escalator built in. (The breakdown is: 5.3% OASI; 0.9% DI; 1.45% HI).

The FICA tax rate has changed 21 times after 1937 (1% in 1937; 7.65% in 2005).

The taxable earnings ceiling has changed 39 times

 

[Genx87]

Originally posted by: Steeplerot
yeah I do, it's the same scam, you b1tch at us for not having faith in our proud american economy in threads then you tell us our economy is fuxx0red.
daft is the word for someone who just doesent get it.
it's the greedy sonsab1tches profiting off the war pouring tons of cash money without accountability.

same old sh1t as raygun. that help? I know your a bit slow.

Your plan has little to do with SS and it wont even address the issue.

I suggest you at least address how to keep SS from running deficits.

 

[Steeplerot]

you are lost.....gives up on you..... I spelled it out.

time for subway meatball special baby mmmMmMMMM good!