Bush's Fantastic Economy:Americans declaring Bankruptcy, contemplating suicide, can't compete with India at 1/6 of wages

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dmcowen674

No Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
54,894
46
91
www.alienbabeltech.com
Originally posted by: razor2025
LOL, and it's really funny how our Anti-Dave people here just keeps on ignoring the statistics. You can disregard a few sets of numbers as faulty, misleading, or outright incorrect. Yet, if you keep on getting numbers that tells the same story over and over again, you HAVE to recognize that there's a problem. A "growing" economy without increase in jobs simply means that Corporate America is profiteering themselves at the cost of our future.
"our Anti-Dave people here"

Hmmm, that's a possibility for a Name for the Radio show.
 

SherEPunjab

Diamond Member
Oct 23, 2002
3,841
0
0
Originally posted by: Wolfdog
As for the argument that the quality of the work that India provides in the programming sector isn't all it is cracked up to be its true. I have friends that have seen the low quality products that they put out, only to have to fix it themselves to make it even execute! So you get what you pay for. I think it will finally set in when people start to have thier house forclosed on. You get a call from the bank, but instead of talking to a American, you get some guy with a accent that doesn't understand a word you are saying. You can't say there isn't any irony in that?
Wolfdogg,

Your experiences do not represent the majority of Indian code. India ranks second in the world (after the U.S.) in terms of software quality, as gauged by the Software Engineering Institute (jointly setup b/w our DoD and Carnegie Mellon University - which has one of the top C.S. depts by the way). 42 Indian organizations have attained CMM Level 5 rankings, out of a total of 76 R&D worldwide.

I too can speak from experience, as I used to be a programmer myself. We had Pakistani and Indian consultants come into our company and they ran circles around the other coders. We would refer to one pakistani guy as 'the guru.' Does that mean all pakistani coders are great? nope, but studies have been done by the SEI, and they show that Indian coders can be up to par or even better.
 

SherEPunjab

Diamond Member
Oct 23, 2002
3,841
0
0
dmcowen:

you may want to learn HINDI (not Hindu-its a religion duh...).

i was there not to long ago, and no sh*t its booming like crazy. I even saw europeans/americans living there, driving cars, working there. i felt sad coming back home (texas) and seeing construction projects relatively in the same position as they were 2 months prior, and then when I was in India I saw more advanced cellular technology next to a cow crossing the road... :Q, and buildings coming up in just a few months. Some of the office buildings there are pretty spectacular from an architectural point of view.

but this is basic stuff i learned in college, developing nations do have more to develop. india and chinas growth rates have been higher than americas for a long time, and the more developed a nation is, the less room to 'boom.' with regards to shifting jobs there, it is the American way. we subscribe to capitalism, and in business, its survival of the fittest. if you can get the same work done there, as good or better, for cheaper, why not? instead of getting mad at our politicians for their trade agreements, i think it would be more prudent in the long term to get mad at our education department.

We never cared when we had 20 cent an hour pakistani children stitching our soccer balls, or little chinese kids making our polo shirts...

Our schools stink compared to schools in some other countries. I have seen mathematical problems that my 17 year old cousin is doing there that I have seen in 4th year EE college textbooks. basically, our education system here stinks, and all the money we throw at it won't help solve it. as i stated in another post, we need to work from the ground up.

a lot of us here on AT are college students or fresh grads... how many of YOUR classmates would you guys hire? I know me personally, I would hire very few (UT Austin).
 

zephyrprime

Diamond Member
Feb 18, 2001
7,510
2
81
a lot of us here on AT are college students or fresh grads... how many of YOUR classmates would you guys hire? I know me personally, I would hire very few (UT Austin).
Not many but it's not because of they were poor students. It's because so many of them don't have real world IT skills or don't have them very well developed. A college curriculum really doesn't teach things to a person. In fact, the ivory tower seems to have a certain disdain for the pratical.

Many of them also have poor social skills and lack an understanding of business issues.

But in fact, actual companies care a lot about GPA's.
 

tcsenter

Lifer
Sep 7, 2001
17,960
94
91
lol! The latest demonstration of either dmcowen674's remarkable ignorance, or remarkable dishonesty...
Bush's Fantastic Economy: 1-25-04 Midwest Retailer Meijer Cuts 1,900 Positions: get rid of slackers, send work to India
....which has nothing whatsoever to do with Bush, the economy, or sending work to India. In fact, Meijer expected to create 6,500 new jobs with the opening of new stores during 2004 and 2005.

Here's a clue (not that I actually expect Dave to ever get one): Companies expand when the economy is good. Companies eliminate wasteful and unnecessary positions whether the economy is good, bad, or ugly.

The fact that all employees getting the whack are managers and not 'The Little Man' should serve to warm the Socialist cockles of your heart, Dave.

I'm wondering, though, if Dave ever practices what he preaches? What I mean is, if I were to covertly follow Dave around long enough with a video camera, do you think I might catch him using one of those self check-out thingies?
Meijer started experimenting in October with a new cost-cutting bagging system at a store in the Grand Rapids suburb of Wyoming. If the ring-and-bag system, as it is known, is installed in all Meijer stores, nearly 8,000 mostly part-time bagging jobs would be lost, the retailer said.
Your radio show is calling you!
 

dmcowen674

No Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
54,894
46
91
www.alienbabeltech.com
Originally posted by: tcsenter
lol! The latest demonstration of either dmcowen674's remarkable ignorance, or remarkable dishonesty...
Bush's Fantastic Economy: 1-25-04 Midwest Retailer Meijer Cuts 1,900 Positions: get rid of slackers, send work to India
....which has nothing whatsoever to do with Bush, the economy, or sending work to India. In fact, Meijer expected to create 6,500 new jobs with the opening of new stores during 2004 and 2005.

Here's a clue (not that I actually expect Dave to ever get one): Companies expand when the economy is good. Companies eliminate wasteful and unnecessary positions whether the economy is good, bad, or ugly.

The fact that all employees getting the whack are managers and not 'The Little Man' should serve to warm the Socialist cockles of your heart, Dave.

I'm wondering, though, if Dave ever practices what he preaches? What I mean is, if I were to covertly follow Dave around long enough with a video camera, do you think I might catch him using one of those self check-out thingies?
Meijer started experimenting in October with a new cost-cutting bagging system at a store in the Grand Rapids suburb of Wyoming. If the ring-and-bag system, as it is known, is installed in all Meijer stores, nearly 8,000 mostly part-time bagging jobs would be lost, the retailer said.
Your radio show is calling you!
No ignorance or dishonesty whatsoever, I agree with you TC, The current Economy and Job situation is fantastic, that's why I changed the Thread Title. I believe you, CAD, Rush, Hannity, President and the Government reports that there is more jobs than ever before since 1984 and that the wages are the highest ever according to you guys. I just have a hard time seeing all that through the Tin Foil Hat I wear.

It was so irresponsible for Meijer and the News reports to post about those 2,000 people being Laid Off and I shouldn't have posted it as it never happened right because they are going to hire them all back plus 4,500 at higher Salaries than they had before right? How STUPID of me.

 

alchemize

Lifer
Mar 24, 2000
11,489
0
0
Quote of the day:

"We can be confident that new jobs will displace old ones as they always have, but not without a high degree of pain for those caught in the job-losing segment of America's massive job-turnover process,"

"most new jobs are the consequence of innovation, which by its very nature is not easily predictable."
 

dmcowen674

No Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
54,894
46
91
www.alienbabeltech.com
Originally posted by: tcsenter
lol! The latest demonstration of either dmcowen674's remarkable ignorance, or remarkable dishonesty...
Bush's Fantastic Economy: 1-25-04 Midwest Retailer Meijer Cuts 1,900 Positions: get rid of slackers, send work to India
....which has nothing whatsoever to do with Bush, the economy, or sending work to India. In fact, Meijer expected to create 6,500 new jobs with the opening of new stores during 2004 and 2005.

Here's a clue (not that I actually expect Dave to ever get one): Companies expand when the economy is good. Companies eliminate wasteful and unnecessary positions whether the economy is good, bad, or ugly.

The fact that all employees getting the whack are managers and not 'The Little Man' should serve to warm the Socialist cockles of your heart, Dave.

I'm wondering, though, if Dave ever practices what he preaches? What I mean is, if I were to covertly follow Dave around long enough with a video camera, do you think I might catch him using one of those self check-out thingies?
Meijer started experimenting in October with a new cost-cutting bagging system at a store in the Grand Rapids suburb of Wyoming. If the ring-and-bag system, as it is known, is installed in all Meijer stores, nearly 8,000 mostly part-time bagging jobs would be lost, the retailer said.
Your radio show is calling you!
Funny you should mention that. I tried the Self Check out once and did not like it.

Most of you should know me by now that I support CHOICE. There is nothing wrong with having both manned checkout in addition to the Self Checkout, best of both worlds. Some people may like the feel of robotic service but I prefer the real thing. :D;)
 

zephyrprime

Diamond Member
Feb 18, 2001
7,510
2
81
Some people may like the feel of robotic service but I prefer the real thing.
I don't see how it's robotic service. In fact, it definitely feels like a human (me) is doing all the work at self checkout lines.
 

dmcowen674

No Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
54,894
46
91
www.alienbabeltech.com
More great News for the U.S. Economy:

1-27-2004 Kraft to Cut 6,000 Jobs, Close 20 Plants

Last year Kraft saw market share slip in part because it overpriced Nabisco cookies, Kraft cheese and other products in a tight economy.
---------------------------------------------------------
No it can't be because of a "Tight" Economy, it's the best Economy since 1984 and soaring and booming just as CAD & Co, Rush, Hannity and Bush keep saying.
 

alchemize

Lifer
Mar 24, 2000
11,489
0
0
Good. I hope all the strip farm-subsidy uber processed carb companies built on the bellies and arteries of our country go out of business ;)
 

dmcowen674

No Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
54,894
46
91
www.alienbabeltech.com
Lot's of unemployed Tech people at Slashdot, the pool is bigger for Walmart:

Unemployed? Why Not Start a Software Company?

Posted by Cliff on Tuesday January 27, @01:36PM
from the tough-questions-for-a-tough-market dept.
R.S.D. asks: "I see all these Ask Slashdot articles about unemployment these days. Why don't a few of you guys get together and start a software company? Out there in the world, there is still a lot of software that needs to be written, and people are still pumping lots of money into software (and biotech). In fact, the software sector is still described as the enduring leader in raising venture capital, though apparently in Silicon Valley more money is going out of the maturing software industry and into things that are still high-tech like biopharm and nano. Is anyone else trying this? If so, how's it going? If not, why not?" This is easier suggested, than implemented. For those who have gone this route, what suggestions would you give to those who may follow?

"Every time I see a group of 5-10 self-described 'great but unlucky' IT workers looking for a job, and how their previous company had to lay them off because their former employer had this 'stupid idea' it was to move all the jobs to Elbonia, I have to ask myself -- why don't these guys get together and start a software company. If you don't make these 'mistakes' of outsourcing development to Elbonia, couldn't you compete pretty well?

Best of all if you ever did need to grow, in this job market, you can get highly educated and experience software engineers even more inexpensively than China or India -- I've heard some internships are unpayed these days.:)

Yes, I am taking my own advice, and trying this, even though I was not unemployed."

 

dmcowen674

No Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
54,894
46
91
www.alienbabeltech.com
1-28-2004 New Home Sales Surprise, They Fall

WASHINGTON - Sales of new U.S. homes fell unexpectedly in December as the strongest home-selling year on record ended with a whimper, a government report showed on Wednesday.

With sales slowing, the inventory of unsold homes on the market rose in December to 374,000, the highest level since June 1989.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
That just cannot possibly be, CAD and all the AT Economy experts swore I was seeing things with all the empty brand new houses all around me. They said the Tin Foil Hat is screwing with my senses.


 

alchemize

Lifer
Mar 24, 2000
11,489
0
0
And here's a quote from a non-tinfoil hat wearing gosh darn real economist:



"The overall level of home sales is still healthy, but it's likely not going to be able to continue to grow in 2004 the way it grew in 2003," said Kevin Logan, chief economist at Dresdner Kleinwort Wasserstein. "It may be topping out, and sales will move sideways -- but that's not a bad thing, given the high level of sales."
 

dmcowen674

No Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
54,894
46
91
www.alienbabeltech.com
Originally posted by: alchemize
And here's a quote from a non-tinfoil hat wearing gosh darn real economist:

"The overall level of home sales is still healthy, but it's likely not going to be able to continue to grow in 2004 the way it grew in 2003," said Kevin Logan, chief economist at Dresdner Kleinwort Wasserstein. "It may be topping out, and sales will move sideways -- but that's not a bad thing, given the high level of sales."
20,000 empty houses is not enough, have to keep bringing in our Southern Citizens, we have to have work for them so they can build another 20,000 empty shells.
 

alchemize

Lifer
Mar 24, 2000
11,489
0
0
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Originally posted by: alchemize
And here's a quote from a non-tinfoil hat wearing gosh darn real economist:

"The overall level of home sales is still healthy, but it's likely not going to be able to continue to grow in 2004 the way it grew in 2003," said Kevin Logan, chief economist at Dresdner Kleinwort Wasserstein. "It may be topping out, and sales will move sideways -- but that's not a bad thing, given the high level of sales."
20,000 empty houses is not enough, have to keep bringing in our Southern Citizens, we have to have work for them so they can build another 20,000 empty shells.
Excellent segue into your local market racist-protectionist rant, Dave, rather than addressing the economists points of supply and demand balancing out! *Golf clap*

 

dmcowen674

No Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
54,894
46
91
www.alienbabeltech.com
Originally posted by: alchemize
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Originally posted by: alchemize
And here's a quote from a non-tinfoil hat wearing gosh darn real economist:

"The overall level of home sales is still healthy, but it's likely not going to be able to continue to grow in 2004 the way it grew in 2003," said Kevin Logan, chief economist at Dresdner Kleinwort Wasserstein. "It may be topping out, and sales will move sideways -- but that's not a bad thing, given the high level of sales."
20,000 empty houses is not enough, have to keep bringing in our Southern Citizens, we have to have work for them so they can build another 20,000 empty shells.
Excellent segue into your local market racist-protectionist rant, Dave, rather than addressing the economists points of supply and demand balancing out! *Golf clap*

Thank you Thank you (tips Tin Foil Hat but have to be careful not to wrinkle it) ;)
 

dirtboy

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 1999
6,745
1
81
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
1-28-2004 New Home Sales Surprise, They Fall

WASHINGTON - Sales of new U.S. homes fell unexpectedly in December as the strongest home-selling year on record ended with a whimper, a government report showed on Wednesday.

With sales slowing, the inventory of unsold homes on the market rose in December to 374,000, the highest level since June 1989.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
That just cannot possibly be, CAD and all the AT Economy experts swore I was seeing things with all the empty brand new houses all around me. They said the Tin Foil Hat is screwing with my senses.
Unsold doesn't mean empty.
 

tcsenter

Lifer
Sep 7, 2001
17,960
94
91
For all of 2003, single-family home sales rose 11.5 percent, with a record 1.085 million homes sold as the lowest mortgage rates in a generation fueled buying.
Wait a minute. 2003 was the strongest home-selling year on record...but wasn't Bush president in 2003? That just cannot possibly be, resident AT economics expert dmcowen674 says that CAD, Rush, and Hannity are telling politically motivated lies when they say the economy is doing well under Bush.

Resident AT economics expert dmcowen674 says that a decade of record-breaking home construction and new homes sales should last forever if the right President is in office. This is taught in mainstream Economic school of thought. In fact, unprecedented economic growth, largely a feat of paper wealth spurred by a stock market bubble, should never come to an end and should last forever if the right President is in office. This is taught in mainstream Economic school of thought.

Twinkle Twinkle Little Star....
 

dmcowen674

No Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
54,894
46
91
www.alienbabeltech.com
Originally posted by: tcsenter
For all of 2003, single-family home sales rose 11.5 percent, with a record 1.085 million homes sold as the lowest mortgage rates in a generation fueled buying.
Wait a minute. 2003 was the strongest home-selling year on record...but wasn't Bush president in 2003? That just cannot possibly be, resident AT economics expert dmcowen674 says that CAD, Rush, and Hannity are telling politically motivated lies when they say the economy is doing well under Bush.

Resident AT economics expert dmcowen674 says that a decade of record-breaking home construction and new homes sales should last forever if the right President is in office. This is taught in mainstream Economic school of thought. In fact, unprecedented economic growth, largely a feat of paper wealth spurred by a stock market bubble, should never come to an end and should last forever if the right President is in office. This is taught in mainstream Economic school of thought.

Twinkle Twinkle Little Star....
Originally posted by: dirtboy
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
1-28-2004 New Home Sales Surprise, They Fall

WASHINGTON - Sales of new U.S. homes fell unexpectedly in December as the strongest home-selling year on record ended with a whimper, a government report showed on Wednesday.

With sales slowing, the inventory of unsold homes on the market rose in December to 374,000, the highest level since June 1989.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
That just cannot possibly be, CAD and all the AT Economy experts swore I was seeing things with all the empty brand new houses all around me. They said the Tin Foil Hat is screwing with my senses.
Unsold doesn't mean empty.
What's that saying, looks like a duck, quacks like a duck, it must be a duck.

Looks like a sh1tload of empty houses, can see right through them, must be empty houses.

Oh OK, a boatload of "Unsold" empty houses. That better?



 

dmcowen674

No Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
54,894
46
91
www.alienbabeltech.com
1-28-2004 US to lock rates at 1958 low, resolve hardened by soft data

WASHINGTON - US Federal Reserve policymakers will freeze rates at a 1958 low to spur a jobs-starved recovery, analysts said, their resolve hardened by unexpectedly weak factory data.

"The somewhat disappointing orders numbers shows that there is still some work to be done before this economy is totally out of the woods," Naroff Economic Advisors President Joel Naroff said.

"We all thought that manufacturing's bad times were behind us and only good news would be in the data, but that is still not the case."
---------------------------------------------------------------
What happened to Soaring and Booming Economy? :confused:




 

Vic

Elite Member
Jun 12, 2001
49,403
11,579
136
Home sales are always down in December. It's a fact-of-life in the industry. Very few people buy a home between Thanksgiving and Christmas. Sales always pick up again by Spring.

And with new homes, unsold means empty. Being "new" construction, the homes are owned by the builder still and are previously unlived in.


The change in the Fed wording to "the committee believes that it can be patient in removing its policy accommodation" spooked the hell out of Wall Street today.
CNN article
Dow today
10 Year T-Bond today (higher yield means lower price)
 

dmcowen674

No Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
54,894
46
91
www.alienbabeltech.com
Originally posted by: Vic
Home sales are always down in December. It's a fact-of-life in the industry. Very few people buy a home between Thanksgiving and Christmas. Sales always pick up again by Spring.

And with new homes, unsold means empty. Being "new" construction, the homes are owned by the builder still and are previously unlived in.


The change in the Fed wording to "the committee believes that it can be patient in removing its policy accommodation" spooked the hell out of Wall Street today.
CNN article
Dow today
10 Year T-Bond today (higher yield means lower price)
Oh OK, December lasts for 3 years, what planet did I land on with that kind of rotation?
 

Vic

Elite Member
Jun 12, 2001
49,403
11,579
136
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Oh OK, December lasts for 3 years, what planet did I land on with that kind of rotation?
3 years?? :confused:

2003 was the best year for the housing/builder/construction/real estate/mortgage industries on record EVER. Before that the best year was 2002, and before that the best year was 2001. I don't know what planet you live on either, but if you're implying that the housing industry has been down for the past 3 years, then you sure as hell don't live on earth.
Sure 2003 ended a little soft -- there was good deal of uncertainty regarding rates. But mortgage applications are already way up since the 1st of the year.
The bottom has hardly dropped out of the housing market. There was just a little welcomed shake-up that got rid of a lot of the dead weight. Otherwise, rates are still great, buyers are still eager and motivated, and my loans process much quicker than they did during the "boom" last year.
 

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