Bush's Fantastic Economy:Americans declaring Bankruptcy, contemplating suicide, can't compete with India at 1/6 of wages

dmcowen674

No Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
54,894
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www.alienbabeltech.com
Official "Bush's Fantastic Economy thread:

More great News for the Booming Economy:

2-4-2004 How India became the capital of the computing revolution.

Meet the pissed-off programmer. If you've picked up a newspaper in the last six months, watched CNN, or even glanced at Slashdot, you've already heard his anguished cry.

He's the guy - and, yeah, he's usually a guy - launching Web sites like yourjobisgoingtoindia and nojobsforindia

He's the guy telling tales - many of them true, a few of them urban legends - about American programmers being forced to train their Indian replacements.

And for the past year, he's the guy who's been picketing corporate outsourcing conferences, holding placards that read WILL CODE FOR FOOD will code for food and chanting, "Shame, shame, shame!"

In 1992, Jairam graduated from India's University of Pune with a degree in engineering. Jairam's annual salary is about $11,000. She could do your $70,000-a-year job for the wages of a Taco Bell counter jockey - she won't lose any sleep over your plight.

If you pulled the shades and ignored the accents, you could be in Santa Clara. But it's the talent - coupled with the ridiculously low salaries, of course - that's luring big clients from Europe and North America. The coders here work for the likes of Citibank, Deutsche Leasing, Alliance Capital, Air Canada, HSBC, BP, Princeton University, and several other institutions that won't permit Hexaware to reveal their names.

American programmers collecting unemployment, declaring bankruptcy, even contemplating suicide - because they can't compete with people willing to work for one-sixth of their wages.


2-3-2004 Economy Experts: Outsourcing Helps World Economy

BOMBAY, India - Outsourcing information technology-related jobs to developing countries such as India will boost competitiveness and slash costs, international software experts and government ministers said Tuesday.

"It's a great business opportunity for U.S. businesses because it makes IT available for a wide swathe of U.S. companies," said Dan Griswold, director of the Center for Trade Policy Studies at the Washington-based Cato Institute.

More jobs in developing countries would build "larger middle classes and create a larger market for U.S. products in the future," Griswold said.
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What U.S Products? All of the Factories have been shipped overseas. :confused:


2-3-2004 117,556 Job Cuts in January, lost to India & China

Job cuts in January were 26 percent higher than in December as U.S. jobs moved to countries like India, China and the Philippines...

Job cuts reached 117,556 in January surpassing the 100,000 threshold for the first time since last October...

Poor job creation is a headache for President Bush as he seeks re-election in November. The economy -- specifically job creation -- is expected to be a key issue in the campaign. Since Bush took office, more than 2.3 million non-farm jobs have been lost.
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Interesting Math, number stays at 2.3 Million Jobs lost even though we keep losing 100,000 + jobs at a clip.
Must be more of that "Good for Us" Math.


Oh yes of course, the unemployment numbers is all my fault, I should've known the President and his administration would blame me. What was I thinking? :confused:

2-1-2004 Self-Employment May Mask U.S. Job Growth

WASHINGTON - Because she is one of more than 15 million self-employed workers in the United States, Temescu is on nobody's payroll -- and thus does not show up on the Labor Department's employer survey used each month to assess the strength of the job market.

The failure of the survey to count independent contractors has come under fire by President Bush's economic team and some analysts, who argue it underestimates job growth by ignoring one of the fastest-growing sectors of the economy.

"There is a big error factor in those numbers," Treasury Secretary John Snow said after Labor reported a scant 1,000 rise in December payrolls. "I think they may well have understated (job growth), and we will see a restatement in the future." A rise in self-employed and other nonpayroll workers would bolster the argument of Bush supporters that the "jobless" nature of America's recovery has been exaggerated.

LIES, DAMN LIES AND STATISTICS

While outsourcing is not new, a rise in self-employed contractors could explain the slow rebound in employment as counted by the payrolls survey, which shows 2.3 million jobs have been lost since Bush took office in January 2001.

WAVE OF THE FUTURE

"Businesses have been looking to temporary help or outsourcing to lower their employment -- and therefore their health care and pension and other responsibilities," he said.

Government data show employment costs rose 3.8 percent in 2003. Outsourcing work to a self-employed contractor cuts those costs by up to a third -- because health care, pensions and other benefits make up 30 percent of total compensation.

"Clearly these kind of huge increases in health care costs encourage businesses to move toward temporary help, outsourcing, or setting people up as consultants," Naroff said. "It's clearly getting stronger."
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1-30-2004 US economy brakes to 4.0 percent growth in fourth quarter

The US economy braked fiercely in the last quarter of 2003, slowing to an unexpectedly low 4.0 percent annualized growth pace as consumer spending dried up, data showed.

Growth shrank to less than half the blistering, 19-year record 8.2 percent pace of the third quarter, defying economists' predictions of a 5.0 percent expansion to wrap up the year.

A Conservative Republican Revolt in the making? :Q

1-30-2004 Medicare Cost Hike Stirs Congress Debate

WASHINGTON - Conservatives expressed little surprise, and anger in private, as administration officials said President Bush now estimates the new Medicare overhaul law will cost a third more than projected when Congress passed the legislation last year.

The president's budget, to be released Monday, will also project a federal deficit this year of about $520 billion, congressional aides said. That would far exceed this year's $375 billion, the highest ever in dollar terms.

The budget will estimate the price of retooling Medicare and adding prescription drug benefits at $534 billion over the decade ending 2013, officials said. The figures, first revealed Thursday by congressional aides speaking on condition of anonymity, were confirmed by administration officials.

While hunting for the votes they needed to nudge the bill through, Bush and administration officials as well as top congressional Republicans told wavering conservatives they believed the bill's costs would track the nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office (news - web sites)'s $395 billion estimate.

Bush signed the Medicare bill Dec. 8, giving him a legislative victory that he intends to promote during his re-election campaign.

"It points again to the No. 1 agenda item that needs to be addressed by Congress," Rep. Jeb Hensarling, R-Texas, said of the new figures. "We've got to protect the family budget from the federal budget."

Hensarling was among several conservatives who voted for the measure after being told by Bush and House Speaker Dennis Hastert, R-Ill., that the costs should follow the CBO projections.

Other conservatives said privately they were owed an explanation as to why the White House did not provide them with the figures before they voted. Administration officials said the new cost estimate was not ready until now.

He said many of them felt "brow beaten" into backing the legislation, which passed the House in November by five votes after leaders held the roll call open nearly three hours while nailing down support.

Meanwhile, the administration released some positive news about their forthcoming budget, including proposals for:

_$45 million ? a fourfold increase ? for cleaning up the Great Lakes.

_An $18 million increase ? to $122.5 million ? for the National Endowment for the Arts.

_$60 million for a cattle identification system and other mad cow-related programs, up from $13 million this year.
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Hmmmm, who is the Tax and Spenders now Mr Rush, Hannity, CAD & Co???

1-29-2004 Bush in N.H. to Defend Economic Record

N.H. - President Bush, taking the New Hampshire political stage all for himself after the Democrats decamped, defended his economic record Thursday against his rivals' charges that he has favored the rich and let 2.3 million jobs slip away.

The topic of the economy is a weak spot for Bush among the independent voters who make up a sizable share of the electorate here. Four years ago, the state had an unemployment rate of around 2 percent. Now, though it remains well below the national level, the unemployment rate has increased to 4.1 percent as New Hampshire has shed 20,000 manufacturing jobs.

"You can tell I'm upbeat," Bush said, almost drowned out by cheers. "And I got reason to be. Not only do the numbers say things are looking pretty good, the American people are telling me that they feel pretty good."
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Yep, the numbers are looking fantastic, who needs those 20,000 Manufacturing jobs or the rest of the 2.3 Millions jobs.
He's upbeat and everybody's feeling as good as James Brown.



1-29-2004 About 2 Million to Use Up Jobless Benefits

"In no other January-June period on record have so many unemployed workers exhausted their regular benefits without qualifying for additional weeks of unemployment assistance,"

Republicans who control Congress say a third extension of the program providing 13 weeks of emergency benefits isn't necessary with unemployment declining.


1-28-2004 US to lock rates at 1958 low, resolve hardened by soft data

WASHINGTON - US Federal Reserve policymakers will freeze rates at a 1958 low to spur a jobs-starved recovery, analysts said, their resolve hardened by unexpectedly weak factory data.

"The somewhat disappointing orders numbers shows that there is still some work to be done before this economy is totally out of the woods," Naroff Economic Advisors President Joel Naroff said.

"We all thought that manufacturing's bad times were behind us and only good news would be in the data, but that is still not the case."
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What happened to Soaring and Booming Economy? :confused:


1-28-2004 New Home Sales Surprise, They Fall

WASHINGTON - Sales of new U.S. homes fell unexpectedly in December as the strongest home-selling year on record ended with a whimper, a government report showed on Wednesday.

With sales slowing, the inventory of unsold homes on the market rose in December to 374,000, the highest level since June 1989.
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That just cannot possibly be, CAD and all the AT Economy experts swore I was seeing things with all the empty brand new houses all around me. They said the Tin Foil Hat is screwing with my senses.
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Who wants Cookies anyway...

1-27-2004 Kraft to Cut 6,000 Jobs, Close 20 Plants

Last year Kraft saw market share slip in part because it overpriced Nabisco cookies, Kraft cheese and other products in a tight economy.
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No it can't be because of a "Tight" Economy, it's the best Economy since 1984 and soaring and booming just as CAD & Co, Rush, Hannity and Bush keep saying.

More great Layoffs of all those slacker workers and send their work to India:

1-25-2004 Midwest Retailer Meijer Trims 1,900 Positions

WALKER, Mich. - Meijer Inc. has eliminated about 1,900 management positions in a reorganization effort, the family-owned grocery and merchandise retailer said Saturday.

"As part of our continual transformation, we have been studying the industry's best practices," Meijer spokesman John Zimmerman said. "As a result, we have determined we need to streamline our stores' supervisory structure in each store."


1-23-2004 Hefty Layoffs Feed Georgia's Jobless

Atlanta - Georgia posted the nation's second-largest increase in jobless claims due to large-scale layoffs, according to a Bureau of Labor Statistics report.

Only the state of New York had a larger increase than Georgia.

1-22-2004 Kodak Lays Off 15,000

NEW YORK - Eastman Kodak Co. said Thursday it will slash its work force by 20 percent and take up to $1.7 billion in charges over the next three years as the company accelerates a painful shift away from the waning film photography market.

1-21-2004 Andrew Caard - Chief of Staff says "We inherited a Recession in 2001 and ended it in 11 months".

IBM says overseas shift was a mistake, will now hire more in U.S. than send overseas:

1-17-2004 IBM Raises Number of New Hires for 2004

An article in The Wall Street Journal in December said IBM planned to move 4,730 highly skilled software jobs from the United States to India. MacDonald said that figure was incorrect but he declined to say how many jobs were being sent overseas.

IBM, which has faced criticism for its plans to shift some U.S. workers to cheaper locations such as India and China, will add about 4,500 net jobs in the United States this year..."We are going to hire more in the U.S. than we shift" overseas, MacDonald said in an interview.

Moving jobs overseas has become a hot political issue as U.S. corporations build foreign workforces to try to cut costs. IBM services competitor Accenture Ltd. (NYSE:ACN - news), for instance, plans to double its staff in India to 10,000 this year.

1-14-2004 Factory Jobs Seen Rising 250,000 in 2004

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - A rebounding U.S. factory sector should generate about 250,000 jobs in 2004, barely denting the huge losses it has suffered since its peak, the National Association of Manufacturers said on Thursday in its annual economic forecast.

"Manufacturing has lost 2.8 million jobs, and it is doubtful if more than half of those jobs will return any time soon," NAM President Jerry Jasinowski said in a statement.

Before the dollar's recent slide, NAM was a vocal critic of the U.S. Treasury Department's so-called strong dollar policy which the group said hurt the ability of U.S. exporters to compete with goods from countries with weaker currencies.

Manufacturers have enjoyed a reprieve on the currency front recently with the dollar last year tumbling some 17 percent against the euro, hit by low U.S. interest rates and the wide current account deficit.



1-14-2004 Fed Reports Economy Gathering Strength - 2.8 Million Laid Off to be Re-hired

Even the nation's beleaguered manufacturing sector showed further signs of life, and the central bank said reports from its 12 regional banks suggested the economic rebound that began in the second half of last year was gathering momentum in late December and early January. Housing and auto sales remaining strong amid scattered signs that manufacturers were beginning to rehire some of the 2.8 million workers laid off over the last three years.

The strength in sales was led by gains in high-end products, according to reports from the New York, Philadelphia, Atlanta and San Francisco districts, while sales at discount stores were coming in below expectations.

Nearly all Fed districts reported increases in manufacturing activity in December and several noted that factory employment edged up a bit as well. This upturn has yet to register on the national unemployment figures

However, economists are hoping that various signs of a rebound in manufacturing will soon translate into significant gains in factory jobs, an expectation that the Fed survey found as well.

"Manufacturers across the country generally expect" better factory conditions in the months ahead, the survey reported, noting that manufacturers had plans to boost capital spending, especially to replace outdated computer equipment.
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Nothing like working towards retirement to have your employer piss it away.

Can I have another?

1-13-2004 Kaiser Aluminum Aims to Ax Benefit Plans

Kaiser Aluminum Corp. asked a federal bankruptcy court Monday for relief from obligations to pay medical and life insurance for thousands of retirees and dependents and to end its underfunded pension plans.

"This is a difficult but essential step in order for Kaiser to complete its restructuring and emerge from Chapter 11 in mid-2004," Kaiser president and chief executive Jack A. Hockema said in a release.

"Almost two years after filing for Chapter 11 protection, Kaiser Aluminum is now forcing retirees ? its most vulnerable stakeholders ? to shoulder the greatest burden in reorganizing the company," Steelworker District Director David Foster of Minneapolis said.

Kaiser filed for bankruptcy protection in 2002, and stopped making payments to its pension plans in 2003.

How sweet it is: Two 100 Year old U.S. based Candy Companies close. Factories moved to Mexico and 228 stores, putting over 5,500 people out of work:

1-12-2004 Archibald Candy to Close U.S. Stores

CHICAGO - Archibald Candy Corp. has announced it will close all 228 of its Fannie May and Fannie Farmer stores by next month.

1-12-2004 Fannie May to shut plant, putting 625 out of work

Archibald Candy Corp. on Monday announced it will sell its Fannie May and Fanny Farmer stores and shut down its West Loop factory--putting 625 employees out of work and ending more than 80 years of tradition.

Brach's Confections Inc., founded in 1904, completed the shutdown its West Side plant last week, laying off the last of what was once more than 3,500 employees. Its Zurich-based parent company, Barry Callebaut, the world's largest merchant of wholesale chocolate, has moved production to Mexico.

1-11-2004 Administration: Treasury Secretary Snow Sees Job Growth

WASHINGTON - U.S. Treasury Secretary John Snow said on Sunday that despite disappointing job growth last month the economy is on an upswing that will lead to increased employment.

Snow said. "But we are beginning to see a much stronger recovery. All the evidence points in that direction."

"As you get an economy into high gear ... it does translate into jobs," Snow said.

"I'm confident that this recovery will translate into job creation," Snow said as he also reaffirmed the administration's commitment to cut in half in five years the record federal deficit...

The treasury secretary said, "We are in a good recovery" that will lead to job growth as well as added revenue, which will also help shrink the deficit.

Snow said the federal budget that President Bush will soon propose will reflect the administration's vow to reduce the deficit, largely by slowing the growth in spending.


1-9-2004 Dow Plunges, Ends Down 134 on Jobs Report

Charles H. Blood Jr., senior financial markets analyst at Brown Brothers Harriman & Co. in New York, said, "the market took the employment report badly at the start."

He noted, however, that the jobs figures were at odds with other reports of economic expansion.

"Two months in a row like this would raise a real question," Blood said. "One month, you have to decide if it's telling the truth and the other ones are wrong, or visa versa."


1-9-2004 Unemployment Rate Falls; Few Jobs Added

A separate survey of business payrolls showed that employers added only 1,000 positions in December, although economic analysts were expecting over 100,000 new jobs.

More than 300,000 people gave up their search for jobs and dropped out of the pool of available workers, said the Bureau of Labor Statistics.

manufacturing continued a 41-month slide by losing 26,000 jobs.

For sustained job growth, economists are looking for monthly payroll gains of 200,000 to 300,000 ? a mark the economy is far from reaching. December marked the fifth consecutive month of payroll gains, however slight.

Other areas of the economy are surging...To remain competitive in the global economy and out of concern that economic improvements wouldn't last, companies have been hesitant to take on added costs of hiring new full-time workers. Instead, they have been working their employees longer and harder. Hence, the productivity of American workers has been at high levels in recent months.

The painfully slow employment growth has been making life difficult for job seekers.

Since President Bush took office, the economy has lost 2.3 million jobs, a statistic that Democrats hope to use against the Bush as he seeks re-election. The Bush administration contends that stronger economic growth ? helped by the president's three tax cuts ? will eventually lead to more meaningful job creation on a sustained basis.
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Since President Bush took office, the economy has lost 2.3 million jobs

:Q , How can a News report Lie? The President and the Economy hasn't lost millions of jobs, millions more have been created than lost and at the highest wages ever. They better print a retraction immediately right CAD?



1-8-2004 Levi's Closes Last Two U.S. Sewing Plants

Levi Strauss spokesman Jeff Beckman said the 150-year-old company was making a delayed but unavoidable business decision.

Along with the San Francisco headquarters, Levi's will continue to base its design and sales staffs in the United States, along with some distribution centers.

"We're still an American brand, but we're also a brand and a company whose products have been adopted by consumers around the world," Beckman said. "We have to operate as a global company."

Once, more than 4 million pairs of jeans were made here each year by workers earning an average of $10 to $12 per hour.

This spring Levi's will shutter its three remaining company-owned plants in Canada, completing the shift to contract production in China and other countries with far cheaper labor.

"We tried to do our best to maintain manufacturing in the United States, but we have to be competitive to survive as a company"


1-8-2004 Weekly Jobless Claims Rise, as Expected

WASHINGTON - The number of Americans applying for unemployment benefits climbed 14,000 during the New Year holiday week, the government said on Thursday, but were in line with Wall Street expectations.


1-6-2004 Earthlink Fires 1,300 Employees, ships jobs to India

ATLANTA, Jan. 6, 2004 ? EarthLink, Inc. (Nasdaq: ELNK) today announced a comprehensive plan to restructure its contact center operations. The restructuring efforts are part of the company?s continuing strategy to deliver award-winning service as it increases operational efficiencies and reduces overall costs.
Under the plan, EarthLink will close its contact center operations in Harrisburg, PA, Roseville, CA, San Jose, CA, and Pasadena, CA and reduce its contact center operations in Atlanta by the end of the first quarter of 2004. EarthLink expects a seamless transition as customer support functions will be routed to its remaining Atlanta staff and to outsourced contact center providers. Approximately 1,300 employees will be directly impacted.

"EarthLink remains committed to delivering award-winning customer service and maintaining our reputation for excellence and innovative tools and features," said Garry Betty, EarthLink?s chief executive officer. "By improving operational efficiencies, this plan allows us to serve our customers and better compete in a highly dynamic marketplace."


1-6-2004 U.S. Consumer Debt More Than Doubles in Decade, Highest Ever

Consumer debt hit a record $1.98 trillion in October 2003, according to the most recent figures from the Federal Reserve. That debt ? which includes credit cards and car loans, but not mortgages ? translates to some $18,700 per U.S. household.


Originally posted by: BaliBabyDoc
What is important is the per capita earnings of the new filers versus the per capita earnings of the new jobs. If the new filer use to earn $50,000 and the new job pays $20,000 we have a problem, Washington! Not only has the tax base eroded but the economic purchasing power has decreased significantly. This won't show up in the economy right away but, it will. Of course the actual figures are not fully known but, we can assume from the recent reports of who eleminated what jobs and how many new Walmarts etc. stores opened what the likely figures ought to be.
More liberal "crocodile tears" trying put a damper on the fantastic Bush Economy. Next thing you know somebody will claim budget deficits and the unfunded liabilities in Medicare and Social Security are problems.
"The fantastic Bush Economy"

It's a New Year, CAD is away on Vacation but will be thrilled when he comes back to see I've changed the Depression Title to "Bushes Fantastic Economy".
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Awww, our citizens to the south are hurting too, they blame China:

1-3-2004 After Initial NAFTA Boom, Mexico Economy Goes Bust, Blame China

"China threatens all of us," said Jorge Verastequi, spokesman for Grupo Industrial Saltillo, a Mexican auto parts manufacturer in Saltillo.

Garcia, the former Mitsubishi plant manager, enjoyed the post-NAFTA boom and now is struggling through the bust. He grew up and attended college in Mexicali, and realized his dream of making it big in his hometown.

But Mitsubishi was blindsided by the popularity of space-saving flat-screen computer monitors made in Taiwan, South Korea and China.

Garcia worked furiously with his crew and his Mitsubishi bosses to cut costs and keep the plant open. Over two years, they reduced the wholesale price of a 17-inch monitor from $160 to $80. But Mitsubishi shuttered the factory anyway

"I thought Mexicali would be a center of computer technology, but it's all disappeared. Garcia said. "Our competition has gone to China."
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Awww, our friends in War across the pond don't seem to be having the same Booming and Soaring Economy as we are here:

1-3-2004 British retail chain WH Smith reports gloomy Christmas

LONDON - British retail chain WH Smith saw its shares plunge as stock markets re-opened for 2004 after it warned that profits were likely to be hit by a disappointing Christmas period.

"These are, by any standards, disappointing results, reflecting tough conditions in the UK high street and the fact that we have not dealt with those conditions as well as we should,"


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Official DEPRESSION Thread:

12-31-2003 [/L]New Jobless Claims Lowest of Bush Tenure ]http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20031231/ap_on_bi_go_ec_fi/economy&cid=668&ncid=716[/L]

The Labor Department reported Wednesday that new applications filed for unemployment insurance dropped by a seasonally adjusted 15,000 to 339,000 for the week ending Dec. 27. Last week's drop marked the third week in a row that claims went down and left claims at their lowest level since Jan. 20, 2001 ? Bush's inauguration day.

Claims have been below 400,000 for 13 consecutive weeks, something economists view as a sign that the fragile labor market may be turning a crucial corner.

But job growth has been slow...Since Bush took office, the economy has lost 2.3 million jobs...

Economists believe that as companies' profits improve they will feel even more comfortable about ramping up investment and hiring new people, two crucial ingredients to the recovery's staying power.

Wednesday's report also showed that the number of unemployed people collecting jobless benefits for more than a week rose by 81,000 to 3.3 million for the week ending Dec. 20, the most recent period for which that information is available. This suggests that jobs are still hard to find for some workers.
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"This suggests that jobs are still hard to find for some workers." Ya Think :confused:

lost 2.3 million jobs / rose by 81,000 to 3.3 million , the Voodoo math still at work.

Originally posted by: dmcowen674
12-28-2003 Bankruptcies Hit Historic New Highs

Must be that great Booming and Soaring Economy
12-28-2003 Economy.com says Many Signs Point to Strong 2004 Economy

WASHINGTON - For the U.S. economy, 2004 could turn out to be a banner year.

"The economy is off and running, and 2004 should be a very good year," said Mark Zandi, chief economist at Economy.com.

That should be welcome news for President Bush and other incumbents who face voters next year. Many analysts believe the overall economy, as measured by gross domestic product, will expand next year by 4.6 percent or more, the biggest gain since 1984, when another Republican president, Ronald Reagan, was running for office.

Forecasters believe things are falling into place to produce the strongest economic growth in two decades. Consumer spending will be bolstered by tax refund checks early in the year. Businesses are finally beginning to invest in new plants and equipment and rehiring some laid off workers, though improvements in the unemployment rate are expected to be modest.

But analysts believe there will be much less improvement in unemployment as businesses concentrate on boosting productivity so they can expand output without hiring new workers.

A significant change from past downturns, workers who lost their jobs have stayed unemployed far longer. The proportion of unemployed workers who have been without a job for more than six months hit 24 percent in November, a 20-year high

"Never bet against a politician's willingness to spend in an election year," said Diane Swonk, chief economist at Bank One Corp. in Chicago, who predicted that the economy in 2004 will not be the curse to Bush that economy of 1992 proved to be for his father's re-election hopes.

"Bush's father made the mistake of having the recession a year too late so there wasn't enough time for the recovery to really get going in 1992," said Wyss. "The timing for the current president is almost perfect."

12-23-2003 U.S. Companies Moving More Jobs Overseas and now being real quiet and sneaky about it to not affect Election

U.S. corporations are picking up the pace in shifting well-paid technology jobs to India, China and other low-cost centers, but they are keeping quiet for fear of a backlash, industry professionals said.

Morgan Stanley estimates the number of U.S. jobs outsourced to India will double to about 150,000 in the next three years. Analysts predict as many as two million U.S. white-collar jobs such as programmers, software engineers and applications designers will shift to low cost centers by 2014.

But the biggest companies looking to "offshoring" to cut costs, such as Microsoft Corp., IBM and AT&T Wireless, are reluctant to attract attention for political reasons..

"The problem is that companies aren't sure if it's politically correct to talk about it," "Nobody has come up with a way to spin it in a positive way."

This causes a problem for publicly traded companies, which would ordinarily brag about cost savings to investors. Instead, they send vague signals that they are opening up operations in India and China, but often decline to elaborate.

In India, some technology companies have recently adopted lower profiles. Microsoft has been removing its name from minibuses used to ferry engineers on overnight shifts.

Guyer believes as many as 40,000 of IBM's 160,000 U.S. jobs will be transferred overseas by 2005...IBM asserts that it is not moving jobs but creating new ones.

AT&T Wireless told the U.S. Securities & Exchange Commission that it would lay off 1,900 employees this year. Communications Workers of America members obtained an internal memo prepared by Tata Consultancy Services of India that discussed how it would assume those U.S. jobs. Subsequently, AT&T Wireless officials acknowledged it was exploring the job shifts but didn't offer details.
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Apparently many of the Heads of these Corps are right here in AT and are the AT Experts:

"IBM asserts that it is not moving jobs but creating new ones." :confused:


Happy Days are here again, the Government and AT Experts say so:

12-23-2003 GDP Roars Ahead at 8.2 Percent in Q3 strongest growth since 1983.

The 0.5 percent rise in personal incomes followed much smaller increases of 0.2 percent in October and 0.3 percent in September. The strength last month came from a big wages and salaries, which rose by $16 billion in November compared to an October gain of $8.2 billion.

After an extended period of layoffs, employers have begun adding workers to their payrolls, which should help bolster incomes even more in coming months.
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OK, those that have had their Salaries doubled please chime in.

All the Layoffs and jobs going overseas was a figment of everyone's imagination. Really good jobs are being created, not the reports of nothing but Wal-Mart and Mickey D's and they are not making $8.50 an hr but but than $15.83 per hr according to Government reports and going up every month. All those landing these great jobs please chime in.

The people I know at BellSouth didn't really get fired yesterday and today for Christmas according to the Government and Experts here.

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This article came out over a week ago although no one was told who was affected but today the pink slips were handed out.
What a great Christmas present in this great Booming Economy.

BellSouth fires 1,074 jobs for Christmas

12-15-2003 IBM to Export Highly Paid Jobs to India, China

In one of the largest moves to "offshore" highly paid U.S. software jobs, International Business Machines Corp. has told its managers to plan on moving the work of as many as 4,730 programmers to India, China and elsewhere, Monday's Wall Street Journal reported.

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From the how many times are they going to say this Dept:

12-11-2003 Jobless Claims Up Unexpectedly Last Week

While claims have risen for two straight weeks, they have been below the 400,000 level that economists see as the divide between improving and deteriorating labor markets for 10 straight weeks - the longest stretch since a run that ended in April 2001.

The department said the number of unemployed workers who continued to draw benefits after an initial week of aid rose 11,000 to 3.35 million.
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So when will they finally say that number is Bullsh1t?

What? The number rose to 3.35 Million?

"And the 3M jobs thing...well it might have been true a while back but to say the current numbers are 3M would be a falsehood. CkG"

That can't be, the Economists and AT Experts swear the number is going down and improving everyday.



12-10-2003 Mortgage Applications fall to nearly 2 year lows. Banks begin Lay Offs.
Washington Mutual Bank announces the Lay Off of 3,000 Employees today in response to the Housing slowdown.

12-10-2003 AOL Laysoff more than 50% of California workforce

450 out of 825 California positions eliminated, meaning it has reduced its workforce in the state by more than half. The layoffs amount to about 2 percent of AOL's total work force of 19,000.


12-9-2003 SBC lays Off 4,000 in this Quarter

In its continuing effort to cut costs and staff, SBC Communications announced it would cut 1.7 percent to 2.3 percent of its total work force. The lay off will incur a one-time charge of up to $150 million, effective in the current quarter. The company sees growth potential in its ability to bundle products and services and expects strong growth from Cingular Wireless.

12-8-2003 OK AT Experts. Please explain why there are more and more AT members posting they have been laid off and looking for work?

12-4-2003 Jobless Claims Climb in Latest Week

Applications for initial U.S. jobless claims logged an unexpected rise in the Thanksgiving week.

The number of people already on state jobless benefits rolls rose 44,000 to 3.39 million in the Nov. 22 week, the latest period for which so-called continued claims data are available.

The unemployment rate for November is expected to remain unchanged at 6 percent with the economy generating 150,000 new jobs outside the farm sector.


12-1-2003 U.S. Factory Activity Strongest in 20 Years

U.S. factories charged ahead in November at their quickest pace since 1983, far exceeding economists' forecasts and putting to rest any lingering doubts that a manufacturing recovery will prove sustainable.



The new American Dream at $30K:

11-23-2003 Wages Drop, Service Jobs Grow

Two years ago, you were a $95,000-a-year employee. You got laid off and were out of work for nearly nine months.

Then you get a new job making $30,000, considerably less that your previous job.

While Georgia's economy and employment numbers are improving, the hardship of going down the salary ladder certainly isn't reflected in the overall employment numbers.

"A lot of people are working, but they're earning a lot less prior to their job loss," said state Labor Commissioner Michael Thurmond.

"When you lose highly skilled, well-paying manufacturing jobs and replace them with service sector jobs, there's a huge loss of income," Thurmond said during a recent visit to Hall County.

Thurmond noted that while economic growth is centered in Atlanta, negative growth is scattered elsewhere in the state.

Thurmond acknowledged that many of the high-paying jobs have moved overseas and may never come back.


11-20-2003 Jobless Claims Fall 15,000 Last Week

Filings for initial U.S. jobless claims fell more steeply than expected last week, a government reported showed on Thursday, while a more closely watched barometer of job conditions hit its healthiest level since before the 2001 recession began.

Indicators Show Growth Should Continue
A closely watched gauge of future U.S. economic activity rose 0.4 percent in October, suggesting strong economic growth should continue in the next few months, a private research firm said on Thursday.
The Conference Board (news - web sites) said its index of leading indicators rose 0.4 percent in October to 113.6, after being unchanged in September.
Conference Board economist Ken Goldstein said something other than a one-month shock -- such as a major power outage, new war or other disruption -- would have to occur to halt the rising trend in spending and investment.
"Latest economic data point to continued economic growth in the next year," Goldstein said in a statement.
The leading index foreshadows economic activity in the next three to six months.

11-11-2003 Three months of small gains in Employment numbers is better than going backwards in massive numbers but we are still in a wait and see mode to see if it is real this time and not just another False Hope. If in fact they stay and job growth kicks in then great. Looks like they are trying to declare today's date as the end of the 2000-2003 DEPRESSION, remains to be proven...
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11-19-2003 Taking advantage of continuing extremely Low Interest rate, Home Builders crank up like crazy at a pace not seen since 1986.

Question is - who is going to fill these 2 million homes?

Speaking of growing Economy, here is some more "positive" numbers to out up:

AT&T - another 3,000 employees gone by 1st Quarter

Toys R Us - Just in time for Christmas Sales, close 180 Stores, 3,600 employees let go.

11-14-2003 Wall Street sinks as economic data fail to inspire buyers

NEW YORK - A late-day sell off hit Wall Street shares as investors were unable to muster any buying enthusiasm after a mixed bag of economic reports and some warnings about weak sales from the tech sector.

11-14-2003 Retail Sales Fall by 0.3 Percent in Oct.

WASHINGTON - America's shoppers tightened their belts in October, depressing sales at the nation's retailers by 0.3 percent, the second month in a row that sales declined, the government reported Friday.

The back-to-back declines in retail sales ? they fell by 0.4 percent in September ? come after consumers went on a shopping spree during the summer, however.

Analysts are hopeful that any moderation in consumer spending will be compensated by strong economic activity elsewhere ? namely a pickup in investment by businesses, a crucial ingredient to a sustained recovery.

Fed policy-makers are expected to hold short-term rates near rock bottom levels for a while to ensure that recently seen economic improvements ? especially in the labor market ? are lasting and don't evaporate.


11-11-2003 Turning Point?

Some employment experts warn that further confirmation is needed to say this is an important turning point. "Is this just another stop and start?" asks John Challenger, chief executive of Challenger, Gray & Christmas, a Chicago outplacement firm.

Predicting the return of job growth has been a frustrating experience for economists. Few expected productivity to increase as much as it has, allowing business to produce more with fewer workers. Over the past two years, productivity has risen at its fastest in 50 years.

At the same time, many companies are continuing to outsource production abroad, holding down job growth in the US.


11-8-2003 Bush Touts Tax Cuts as source of Gains

President Bush claimed credit Saturday for a raft of favorable new economic reports, saying it was proof his tax cuts are kicking in.


11-6-2003 Jobless Claims Plunge, Productivity Soars

The number of Americans filing first-time claims for jobless benefits took an unexpectedly sharp plunge last week, reaching a level not seen since before the economy tumbled into recession in 2001, a government report showed on Thursday.
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Talk about up and down News Stories. 2 days ago headlines in October doubles job cuts.
One of the Companies I thought was going to wait until after the Holidays to announce thousands of job cuts looks like they will do it tomorrow. This will have a big impact in the Southeast States.


11-4-2003 Job Cuts More Than Double in October

Chicago-based Challenger, Gray & Christmas Inc. said Tuesday that in October companies announced plans to eliminate 171,874 positions, compared with 76,506 jobs in September. It was the highest monthly level since October 2002, when 176,010 job cuts were announced.

In a new poll of human resources executives conducted by Challenger, 78 percent did not expect to see any significant upturn in hiring until the second quarter of 2004. None of the respondents forecast an upturn in the first quarter. Eleven percent said hiring would pick up in the third or fourth quarter.

Eleven percent of those polled said that there would be no hiring rebound at all in 2004.

11-4-2003 Bankruptcies Climb, Relief in Sight

Donald Ratajczak, a consulting economist, jokingly called the overall bankruptcy climb "a sustained growth path." He said bankruptcies were directly linked to the loss of jobs over the past two years.

But there is good news on the horizon, he said. His indicators show that a turnaround started last April, something that could be showing up in the decline in Chapter 11 filings but not reflected in bankruptcies across the board. "It could be another year before it peaks out," he said.


10-30-2003 U.S. Economic Rebound Gains As GDP Soars

"The U.S. slowdown is over, dead, gone, defunct, finished and unlikely to return soon," said Sherry Cooper, chief economist with BMO Nesbitt Burns.

"The tax relief we passed is working," Bush said, citing the latest GDP showing. "We left more money in the hands of the American people, and the American people are moving this economy forward."

The president cautioned against expecting "economic growth numbers like this every quarter. Yet by continuing a pro-growth agenda, we will sustain growth and job creation in this country."

He added: "We're on the right track, but we've got work to do."

The Bush administration contends that as economic growth improves, meaningful job creation will follow. Bush will be counting on that as he faces re-election in 2004.


10-26-2003 Buffett Sees Little to Invest In

Warren Buffett (news - web sites) sees very few attractive investments at the moment, and is sitting tight on a $24 billion war chest.

The billionaire investor and chief executive of Berkshire Hathaway said in an interview with Barron's that he is not impressed with the current opportunities in stocks, Treasury bonds or junk debt.

"We've got more cash than ideas. The question is whether that will prevail for an unduly long time," he told Barron's.
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Well folks, now even the rich old boys are speaking publicly about not putting money into the Market. Now how do you stop a DEPRESSION?

10-22-2003 Investors question whether they had become too optimistic too soon.

"Today's report threw a little bit of cold water on the sentiment of rising expectations," said Anthony Chan, chief economist at Banc One Investment Advisors.

"This week has proved to be a reality check," said Tim Anderson, senior position trader with Citigroup Capital Markets. In general, he added, "guidance for the fourth quarter has been conservative."


10-20-2003U.S. employment has shrunk for 26 of the last 33 months a stretch unmatched since the Great Depression

"The president is under great pressure now because of the jobless recovery ... (and) support for free trade (in) the Republican Party has collapsed," Hale said. "Much will depend on what happens to U.S. employment over the coming months.
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The DEPRESSION word arrives. Where all of you in here agreeing with the Administration that the recession ended in November 2001 and the Economy is perfectly fine now?

10-15-2003 Oracle sends 175 Rocklin jobs to India

The Rocklin jobs being shipped to India pay $35,000 to $45,000 a year. They will cost Redwood Shores-based Oracle -- the world's second-largest software company, behind Microsoft Corp. -- as much as 50 percent less per job in India than it would pay here, by some estimates.

"There are some very upset people at Oracle," said Cindy Schaer, Rocklin's economic development manager. "To make things worse, they're sending 36 to 40 Indians here to be trained by the very people losing their jobs to them. That's brutal. That's nothing against the Indian people, it's just devastating to the people here."

Schaer said the company plans to take an "entire division" out of Oracle's second Rocklin office building, a 123,000-square-foot space where it leases 40,000 square feet...
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Hard to envision any kind of a Economic Recovery while this still continue to go on at a much faster pace than any other jobs might be created.


10-14-2003 As promised I sent an E-mail to an Economist featured on the local News last week and he replied.

Last week he was beaming with Good News and said the Recession was over November 2001 and now is the time to get back in the Stock Market. Earnings reports will prove the Economy is recovering.

I asked him what exactly is a "Jobless Recovery"?

----------------------------
Hello

Thanks for writing, in a recovery Employers always will add jobs last. They first try to do more with less to try and make their numbers look good. Hiring will pick up mid - year next year.
-----------------------------

So mark your Calendars everyone, Companies will begin hiring June 2004 in earnest.


10-10-2003 Andy Grove lashes out at Outsourcing, Patent insanity and slow speed Internet in U.S.

Grove acknowledged under questioning that the tech industry itself is responsible for numerous jobs leaving the United States, as firms take advantage of considerably cheaper labor costs in India and elsewhere.

Grove chided U.S. policymakers for all but ignoring the problem.

"What is the U.S. public policy?" he asked. "I am hard put to find a document" outlining a policy strategy.

He said he had detected no recognition of the problem from any of the presidential candidates.

He said that the inability of patent examiners to handle the workload has led to a backlog of important applications, but also less than thorough vetting of patents that perhaps should not be granted.

Grove also said the country lags dangerously behind in popular use of high-speed Internet connections, funding for science and technology research, and education.

Andy Grove Speaks out on Offshore Outsourcing
Andy Grove, of Intel fame, "spoke out" at a recent technology summit in Washington about the current trend towards offshore outsourcing and how it's causing the US to slowly but surely lose its edge in the tech sector. He states plainly that the US government must step in to restore balance between the need for profits and the lure of offshore outsourcing. There are also pokes at the patent system and slow adoption of broadband internet access. An interesting insight into what's going on inside the heads of the US's tech leaders."

10-9-2003 Jobless Claims Fall to an 8-Month Low

Although the economy emerged from recession in November 2001, it has lost over a million jobs since then. However, in September the recovery managed to eke out 57,000 new jobs.

While the report suggested layoffs were slowing, it also showed unemployed workers were still having a tough time finding new jobs. For the week ended Sept. 27, the number of Americans on the benefit rolls after filing an initial claim fell by a slim 7,000 to a still-lofty 3.64 million.
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This is supposed to be Good News, I say this because a couple of people made a claim I am only posting bad News.

"Although the economy emerged from recession in November 2001".

Hello????? This is nearly November 2003, 2 years later, WTF makes that kind of Official claim the recession ended 2 years ago? Yet the very next line says over 1 million jobs lost since this magical November 2001 that ended the recession.


Who is this "Someone" that says the Recession ended 2 years ago????

10-4-2003 Factory Closures Devastate U.S. Towns

The loss of 2.5 million manufacturing jobs since January 2001 has devastated factory towns across middle America, where once-dominant local employers are pulling up stakes and heading to Mexico or Asia in search of lower costs and cheaper labor.


10-2-2003 Hurrican Isabel blamed for Jobless increase

Economists see claims over that key level to be a sign the labor market is deteriorating.<B
 

tnitsuj

Diamond Member
May 22, 2003
5,446
0
76
Wouldn't foriegn capital have to completely flee the United States for thier to be a depression?
 

308nato

Platinum Member
Feb 10, 2002
2,674
0
0
Heh. I drink coffee with some Depression era "kids" every morning. I'll tell them tomorrow that the country is in another Depression. I will let them be the judge.

They said you could get fired from a WPA job if you were caught with fruit in your lunchpail. This was considered as a sign you had to much money to be eligible for the work/assistance.
 

Lucky

Lifer
Nov 26, 2000
13,126
1
0
blame the unions as evidenced by UAW job losses and the verizon job losses.

plus it's not like they are getting kicked out on their ass with nothing to put under the christmas tree. these folks are getting tens of thousands of dollars in severance.
 

308nato

Platinum Member
Feb 10, 2002
2,674
0
0
Maybe I am being picky, but the term "layoff" has little to do with what you are linking.

Being laidoff is......sorry but you have no job Monday.....god luck and sayonara.

Nothing to do with buyouts, getting retirement eligible old farts to retire and not replacing them etc.
 

dmcowen674

No Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
54,894
46
91
www.alienbabeltech.com
Originally posted by: 308nato
Maybe I am being picky, but the term "layoff" has little to do with what you are linking.

Being laidoff is......sorry but you have no job Monday.....god luck and sayonara.

Nothing to do with buyouts, getting retirement eligible old farts to retire and not replacing them etc.
That's the way they start off. If they don't get 74,000 people to take the "Package" then you get a pink slip with nothing.

 

Lucky

Lifer
Nov 26, 2000
13,126
1
0
these are people under union contract, they CANT be layed off like that. which is part of the freakin problem.
 

Corn

Diamond Member
Nov 12, 1999
6,389
29
91
My what a misrepresentation of the facts this thread turned out to be. Of course I knew it going into the deal.......

The "74,000 buyouts" offered were to *all* of Verizon's non-union management employees. They are trying to trim some fat with attractive severence packages, not layoff *every* management employee. Chicken little, this claim is bogus.


Where's the 50,000 auto layoffs? Where's your link for that? Will it be of similar quality to your bogus 74,000 Verizon layoffs?

Thread title is a lie, topic is misleading.......nothing new here.
 

Shelly21

Diamond Member
May 28, 2002
4,111
1
0
According to CNNMoney, Ford is slashing 12,000 jobs worldwide, not just in the US, and Chrysler is going to do the same.
 

rufruf44

Platinum Member
May 8, 2001
2,002
0
0
When the company tried to cut down expense and improve profits by laying off people or move it overseas, they got hit from all side, condemning them. When the company maintain those expense and excess employee/keep the job in the US, they got hit by the stock holder and Wallstreet who demands nothing else but profit, and the executives's head will probably roll if they can't do that.

Can't satisfy both sides, and if I'm the CEO and/or executives, I have to admit I'll do what it takes to keep my job (which in this case means layoff or moving job overseas).
 

XZeroII

Lifer
Jun 30, 2001
12,572
0
0
Originally posted by: Shelly21
According to CNNMoney, Ford is slashing 12,000 jobs worldwide, not just in the US, and Chrysler is going to do the same.
Yes.

And go over to OT and you will see all sorts of people who just bought a foreign car :|
 

XZeroII

Lifer
Jun 30, 2001
12,572
0
0
Another point: How many jobs were created in that time? It's pretty irresponsible to show information on how many jobs were lost and not point out how many new jobs were created.
 

dexvx

Diamond Member
Feb 2, 2000
3,899
0
0
Originally posted by: XZeroII
Originally posted by: Shelly21
According to CNNMoney, Ford is slashing 12,000 jobs worldwide, not just in the US, and Chrysler is going to do the same.
Yes.

And go over to OT and you will see all sorts of people who just bought a foreign car :|
A foreign car made in American, nonetheless. UAW is killing the big three.
 

dmcowen674

No Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
54,894
46
91
www.alienbabeltech.com
Originally posted by: XZeroII
Originally posted by: Shelly21
According to CNNMoney, Ford is slashing 12,000 jobs worldwide, not just in the US, and Chrysler is going to do the same.
Yes.

And go over to OT and you will see all sorts of people who just bought a foreign car :|
Can't say I blame them. I have never bought a Foreign car but my next Vehicle purchase WILL be one because the American cars are overpriced junk.

The U.S. Automakers did it to themselves.



 

rufruf44

Platinum Member
May 8, 2001
2,002
0
0
Originally posted by: XZeroII
Originally posted by: Shelly21
According to CNNMoney, Ford is slashing 12,000 jobs worldwide, not just in the US, and Chrysler is going to do the same.
Yes.

And go over to OT and you will see all sorts of people who just bought a foreign car :|
The same foreign's car company who's opening factory in the US, opposite Ford who's moving their plant out of USA? :p

But this is exactly whats happening. People in the US complained about stagnant economy, but they bought foreign products because they don't want to sacrifice their "needs".
 

dirtboy

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 1999
6,745
1
81
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Official DEPRESSION Thread:
This thread should be retitled to, Official dmcowen674 is an uneducated fool who can't interpret news accurately and doesn't understand how the economy works Thread.
 

dirtboy

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 1999
6,745
1
81
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Originally posted by: XZeroII
Originally posted by: Shelly21
According to CNNMoney, Ford is slashing 12,000 jobs worldwide, not just in the US, and Chrysler is going to do the same.
Yes.

And go over to OT and you will see all sorts of people who just bought a foreign car :|
Can't say I blame them. I have never bought a Foreign car but my next Vehicle purchase WILL be one because the American cars are overpriced junk.

The U.S. Automakers did it to themselves.
Do you know why American cars are more expensive and why there are layoffs. Of course you don't, otherwise you'd make educated statements. Ford is laying off people because their currect and retirement labor costs (what they pay their employees that work and those who are getting a pension) far exceed what the foreign companies are paying their AMERICAN workers. Yea that's right, the American workers working in American based foreign factories get paid less. So you can thank the UAW for raising the cost of workers above the market which forces the American companies to make less money and build crappier cars.

Go buy a foreign car...nobody cares. You'll just be back after you buy it spreading some other uneducated fear mongering dribble.
 

LunarRay

Diamond Member
Mar 2, 2003
9,993
1
76
When the guy in Florida loses his job we are in a sickly economy. When my neighbor loses his I refer to it as a recession and if I lose mine we are in a depression... Still true.. it is all relevant and by sector and or location. Detroit could be in a depression and Los Angeles in a major up tick.

But, the terms economists use are the result of X quarters of no or negitive growth and measurable factors like 24% unemployment.

What is a real tell tale is; of those auto worker jobs lost off set by jobs gained somewhere else, two factors are important. The difference in disposable income net because if it is negitive then the economy suffers, obviously and are the job growth locals the same as the job loss locals. If no, then the local area folks suffer as well and tumble down the drain as well (in time).

This could be a slow roller coaster ride down and once you start down from the high point you gotta start the ride over to get to that point again..

We need getting our manufacturing back and adopt a buy American attitude. Bring those jobs home Mr. Bush and do it now or you can be certain to be replaced in '04.
 

dirtboy

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 1999
6,745
1
81
Originally posted by: LunarRay
We need getting our manufacturing back and adopt a buy American attitude. Bring those jobs home Mr. Bush and do it now or you can be certain to be replaced in '04.
Do you know what would happen if we brought those manufacturing jobs home? Nobody would buy the product because it is too expensive. Our labor costs here are too high in comparison to the rest of the world. You wouldn't buy the products, because your dollar would go to the less expensive foreign product. Shipping jobs overseas does not hurt us. It actually helps. We buy stuff from them, they buy stuff from us. It's how a global economy works. A country with a low labor cost makes it a better place to manufacture, especially when you factor in the fact that many countries don't have such strict environment laws.
 

LunarRay

Diamond Member
Mar 2, 2003
9,993
1
76
Originally posted by: dirtboy
Originally posted by: LunarRay
We need getting our manufacturing back and adopt a buy American attitude. Bring those jobs home Mr. Bush and do it now or you can be certain to be replaced in '04.
Do you know what would happen if we brought those manufacturing jobs home? Nobody would buy the product because it is too expensive. Our labor costs here are too high in comparison to the rest of the world. You wouldn't buy the products, because your dollar would go to the less expensive foreign product. Shipping jobs overseas does not hurt us. It actually helps. We buy stuff from them, they buy stuff from us. It's how a global economy works. A country with a low labor cost makes it a better place to manufacture, especially when you factor in the fact that many countries don't have such strict environment laws.
What you are saying is we will buy ourselves into depression. We will support anything that lowers prices including sending the jobs that pay the bills overseas too. You wish to equalize our labor earnings with the rest of the world and by so doing reduce our standard of living to that of the peasant in Niger or Lybia.. They don't buy our stuff we have a 700 - 800 b trade deficit this year alone.. We are losing jobs hands over fist.
If you live in the US ought you not want to retain those jobs while creating new ones so our population growth has work?
Do you wish to pollute the environment to reduce the population growth so the dwindling jobs will be enough for the 37 survivors?
Sure it is more favorable to have the Chinese make our consumption... but, if you are an American you should support American workers... I'd think..
 

dirtboy

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 1999
6,745
1
81
Originally posted by: LunarRay
What you are saying is we will buy ourselves into depression. We will support anything that lowers prices including sending the jobs that pay the bills overseas too. You wish to equalize our labor earnings with the rest of the world and by so doing reduce our standard of living to that of the peasant in Niger or Lybia.. They don't buy our stuff we have a 700 - 800 b trade deficit this year alone.. We are losing jobs hands over fist. If you live in the US ought you not want to retain those jobs while creating new ones so our population growth has work?
Do you wish to pollute the environment to reduce the population growth so the dwindling jobs will be enough for the 37 survivors?
Sure it is more favorable to have the Chinese make our consumption... but, if you are an American you should support American workers... I'd think..
If you knew something about economics, this would be a worthwhile coversation. The reality is, a nation can exist quite well with a continuous trade deficit. While we do run a deficit with some countries, we run a surplus with others.

I never said I want to equalize labor earnings. NEVER. Idiot.

Until you pull your uneducated head out of the sand you won't understand that we are better off letting buying things from other countries, just like they are better off buying from us.

Us trading with other nations is no different than you buying a new CPU from a vendor in another state. I ask you, why do you not buy the CPU locally to support your local people. It's more expensive. DUH. So you benefit from trade. You save money which allows you to buy other things. When you buy other things, jobs are created. BINGO.

The fact of the matter is that American workers are the most efficient in the world. As you become more efficient, people lose jobs. Some because they aren't good employees, others because it's their time to retire. That's how it works. Those without work, will find another job, or start a business or invent something. Why do you think we enjoy the standard of living like we do now? It's because we buy things from other countries for less money. If we closed our boarders to trade, our economy would actually crash and stagnate.
 

Zebo

Elite Member
Jul 29, 2001
39,398
19
81
Originally posted by: dirtboy
Originally posted by: LunarRay
What you are saying is we will buy ourselves into depression. We will support anything that lowers prices including sending the jobs that pay the bills overseas too. You wish to equalize our labor earnings with the rest of the world and by so doing reduce our standard of living to that of the peasant in Niger or Lybia.. They don't buy our stuff we have a 700 - 800 b trade deficit this year alone.. We are losing jobs hands over fist. If you live in the US ought you not want to retain those jobs while creating new ones so our population growth has work?
Do you wish to pollute the environment to reduce the population growth so the dwindling jobs will be enough for the 37 survivors?
Sure it is more favorable to have the Chinese make our consumption... but, if you are an American you should support American workers... I'd think..
If you knew something about economics, this would be a worthwhile coversation. The reality is, a nation can exist quite well with a continuous trade deficit. While we do run a deficit with some countries, we run a surplus with others.

I never said I want to equalize labor earnings. NEVER. Idiot.

Until you pull your uneducated head out of the sand you won't understand that we are better off letting buying things from other countries, just like they are better off buying from us.

Us trading with other nations is no different than you buying a new CPU from a vendor in another state. I ask you, why do you not buy the CPU locally to support your local people. It's more expensive. DUH. So you benefit from trade. You save money which allows you to buy other things. When you buy other things, jobs are created. BINGO.

The fact of the matter is that American workers are the most efficient in the world. As you become more efficient, people lose jobs. Some because they aren't good employees, others because it's their time to retire. That's how it works. Those without work, will find another job, or start a business or invent something. Why do you think we enjoy the standard of living like we do now? It's because we buy things from other countries for less money. If we closed our boarders to trade, our economy would actually crash and stagnate.

I'm suprised your body has'nt been found in a dumpter behind some bar with a mouth like that. It's really sad you need to attack him this way. He did'nt you at all. Take a chill pill and learn some respect dickhead.
 

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