Bush Prods U.N. to Lift Iraq Sanctions

[phillyTIM]

Bush Prods U.N. to Lift Iraq Sanctions

WASHINGTON - President Bush prodded U.N. Security Council nations Wednesday to lift sanctions against Iraq, saying no country should use sanctions "to hold back the hopes of the Iraqi people."

===============

I'd say absolutely NOT.

Just as Hans Blix said: the sanctions dictate that Weapons Of Mass Destruction must be cleared. Yet the Bush regime insists they are there and will be found.

Bush is a victim of his own device; he made his bed, now he has to lie in it.

For all we know, Iraqi Baath party members/citizens may be holding onto these WMDs.

The onus is on the US, since they have appointed themselves the inspectors, to give Iraq the thumbs up to having a clean slate.

I'd love to see the day the sanctions are lifted, and the Iraqi people can be better taken care of; but until then, Bush must first come out and say Iraq is clear of WMDs, just as the sanctions stipulate.

 

[jjones]

Feeling a little vindictive today, are we? How convenient is it that this only hurts Iraqis and not you.

 

[SuperTool]

Yes, holding back the hopes of the Iraqi people for 12 years is fine when it suits the US, but waiting to have Iraq certified WMD free is not fine if Bush doesn't like it. The hypocrisy of this administration is astounding.

 

[phillyTIM]

Originally posted by: SuperTool
Yes, holding back the hopes of the Iraqi people for 12 years is fine when it suits the US, but waiting to have Iraq certified WMD free is not fine if Bush doesn't like it. The hypocrisy of this administration is astounding.

Yeah jones, so excuse us for a shimmer of vindictiveness in the shadow of the disgraceful treatment of pawns the Iraqi people have been used for.

 

[SnapIT]

Lift the sanctions, not for the US government (the clowns of the US) but for the Irakis...

Of course it is ironic, but there are people suffering, this is no time to show pride...

Let's be the bigger men and lif the sanctions...

 

[charrison]

Originally posted by: SuperTool
Yes, holding back the hopes of the Iraqi people for 12 years is fine when it suits the US, but waiting to have Iraq certified WMD free is not fine if Bush doesn't like it. The hypocrisy of this administration is astounding.

AT this point i think it is safe to say Iraq is in the process of disarming, even if no WMD are found.

If the UN does not lift the sanctions, I fully expect Iraq will become a free trade with the US, UK and the other in the coalition of the willing. Let the UN complain afterwards.

 

[charrison]

Originally posted by: SnapIT
Lift the sanctions, not for the US government (the clowns of the US) but for the Irakis...

Of course it is ironic, but there are people suffering, this is no time to show pride...

Let's be the bigger men and lif the sanctions...

Glad you realize that it is time to put the sanctions to rest

 

[jjones]

Originally posted by: SuperTool
Yes, holding back the hopes of the Iraqi people for 12 years is fine when it suits the US, but waiting to have Iraq certified WMD free is not fine if Bush doesn't like it. The hypocrisy of this administration is astounding.

I don't see the hypocrisy. The former government, which those sanctions were directed against, is no longer in place. But hey, the Iraqis have suffered under a dictator for about 30 years and sanctions because of this dictator for 12, what's a little more suffering of Iraqis if it will make you feel good about opposing Bush's request to get them lifted? Funny thing is, if it were France pressing and saying now that the war is over the UN should lift sanctions, and Bush were saying no, we don't think so yet, I'm sure you would side with France and argue they should be lifted.

 

[SnapIT]

Originally posted by: charrison

Originally posted by: SuperTool
Yes, holding back the hopes of the Iraqi people for 12 years is fine when it suits the US, but waiting to have Iraq certified WMD free is not fine if Bush doesn't like it. The hypocrisy of this administration is astounding.

AT this point i think it is safe to say Iraq is in the process of disarming, even if no WMD are found.

If the UN does not lift the sanctions, I fully expect Iraq will become a free trade with the US, UK and the other in the coalition of the willing. Let the UN complain afterwards.

And if no WMD's are ever found? oh well?

How nice, a war without a reason an the best you can do is a shrug?

 

[SnapIT]

Originally posted by: charrison

Originally posted by: SnapIT
Lift the sanctions, not for the US government (the clowns of the US) but for the Irakis...

Of course it is ironic, but there are people suffering, this is no time to show pride...

Let's be the bigger men and lif the sanctions...

Glad you realize that it is time to put the sanctions to rest

Making the best of a bad situation is the natural thing to do...

 

[jjones]

Originally posted by: phillyTIM

Originally posted by: SuperTool
Yes, holding back the hopes of the Iraqi people for 12 years is fine when it suits the US, but waiting to have Iraq certified WMD free is not fine if Bush doesn't like it. The hypocrisy of this administration is astounding.

Yeah jones, so excuse us for a shimmer of vindictiveness in the shadow of the disgraceful treatment of pawns the Iraqi people have been used for.

Like I said, how convenient is it that the sanctions don't result in you or your family suffering? As long as it's someone else that suffers, I guess that's okay.

Edit: I just reread your comment. How ironic that you mention the Iraqis being used as pawns.

 

[phillyTIM]

Originally posted by: jjones

Like I said, how convenient is it that the sanctions don't result in you or your family suffering? As long as it's someone else that suffers, I guess that's okay.

Why don't you accuse your President of the same thing--his sham of a war without obvious reason. He didn't think twice about putting the Iraqi people through hell when his vindictiveness against Saddam ruled his judgement. What's the reason we went to war? WMDs? Still searching for 'em even at 2 months now? Still believe they are there? Fine, then the sanctions stay that dictate no lift until a clean bill of health.

 

[charrison]

Originally posted by: SnapIT

Originally posted by: charrison

Originally posted by: SuperTool
Yes, holding back the hopes of the Iraqi people for 12 years is fine when it suits the US, but waiting to have Iraq certified WMD free is not fine if Bush doesn't like it. The hypocrisy of this administration is astounding.

AT this point i think it is safe to say Iraq is in the process of disarming, even if no WMD are found.

If the UN does not lift the sanctions, I fully expect Iraq will become a free trade with the US, UK and the other in the coalition of the willing. Let the UN complain afterwards.

And if no WMD's are ever found? oh well?

How nice, a war without a reason an the best you can do is a shrug?

No, more like makig the best of bad situation. I think there the chances of us finding nothing is slim, but some folks on this board would be content to punish the people because of our bad intelligence.

 

[SnapIT]

Originally posted by: jjones

Originally posted by: SuperTool
Yes, holding back the hopes of the Iraqi people for 12 years is fine when it suits the US, but waiting to have Iraq certified WMD free is not fine if Bush doesn't like it. The hypocrisy of this administration is astounding.

I don't see the hypocrisy. The former government, which those sanctions were directed against, is no longer in place. But hey, the Iraqis have suffered under a dictator for about 30 years and sanctions because of this dictator for 12, what's a little more suffering of Iraqis if it will make you feel good about opposing Bush's request to get them lifted? Funny thing is, if it were France pressing and saying now that the war is over the UN should lift sanctions, and Bush were saying no, we don't think so yet, I'm sure you would side with France and argue they should be lifted.

You know, just because you agree with one standpoint, it doesn't mean that you agree with everything...

Like, now the US agrees that the sanctions should be lifted, but to say they have the same standpoint that germany did a year ago is not a valid point to make...

Or is it? the rules of the game changes as the days go by...

 

[charrison]

Originally posted by: SnapIT

Originally posted by: jjones

Originally posted by: SuperTool
Yes, holding back the hopes of the Iraqi people for 12 years is fine when it suits the US, but waiting to have Iraq certified WMD free is not fine if Bush doesn't like it. The hypocrisy of this administration is astounding.

I don't see the hypocrisy. The former government, which those sanctions were directed against, is no longer in place. But hey, the Iraqis have suffered under a dictator for about 30 years and sanctions because of this dictator for 12, what's a little more suffering of Iraqis if it will make you feel good about opposing Bush's request to get them lifted? Funny thing is, if it were France pressing and saying now that the war is over the UN should lift sanctions, and Bush were saying no, we don't think so yet, I'm sure you would side with France and argue they should be lifted.

You know, just because you agree with one standpoint, it doesn't mean that you agree with everything...

Like, now the US agrees that the sanctions should be lifted, but to say they have the same standpoint that germany did a year ago is not a valid point to make...

Or is it? the rules of the game changes as the days go by...

The rules have not changed, but the players have.

 

[SuperTool]

Originally posted by: charrison

Originally posted by: SuperTool
Yes, holding back the hopes of the Iraqi people for 12 years is fine when it suits the US, but waiting to have Iraq certified WMD free is not fine if Bush doesn't like it. The hypocrisy of this administration is astounding.

AT this point i think it is safe to say Iraq is in the process of disarming, even if no WMD are found.

If the UN does not lift the sanctions, I fully expect Iraq will become a free trade with the US, UK and the other in the coalition of the willing. Let the UN complain afterwards.

Iraq has been "in the process of disarming" for 12 years, and for every one of those years, the US position was that process itself was not enough to lift sanctions, but that the inspectors have to certify Iraq as free of WMD before sanctions were lifted. I think the sanctions were and are a crime against humanity, perpetrated by the UN with US support. To indiscriminately impose economic sanctions on the civilian economy, which directly lead to civilian deaths and suffering for 12 years is unacceptable. The sanctions were targeted at all civilian trade and commerce, not just trade in military goods. That cannot be justified, no matter what the goal of these sanctions was. We directly targeted Iraqi civilians with these sanctions, even though they did not have a say in what their government did. We punished people for Saddam's behavior, even though they had no control over it. It's a complete disgrace.

 

[phillyTIM]

Yeah how kind of Bush to think of the welfare of the Iraqi people now, after 12 hard years of sanctions and bombs dropped all over'em.

 

[SnapIT]

Originally posted by: charrison

Originally posted by: SnapIT

Originally posted by: charrison

Originally posted by: SuperTool
Yes, holding back the hopes of the Iraqi people for 12 years is fine when it suits the US, but waiting to have Iraq certified WMD free is not fine if Bush doesn't like it. The hypocrisy of this administration is astounding.

AT this point i think it is safe to say Iraq is in the process of disarming, even if no WMD are found.

If the UN does not lift the sanctions, I fully expect Iraq will become a free trade with the US, UK and the other in the coalition of the willing. Let the UN complain afterwards.

And if no WMD's are ever found? oh well?

How nice, a war without a reason an the best you can do is a shrug?

No, more like makig the best of bad situation. I think there the chances of us finding nothing is slim, but some folks on this board would be content to punish the people because of our bad intelligence.

I am not one of them and i think you know that, i would like the Irakis to finally get their share of the countries income, and i HOPE that is going to happen, if it does not i will forever have lost my hope in the stars and stripes...

Yeah, i am a Swede at heart and soul, but that does not mean that i don't admire the stars and stripes for the great country it is... i have had the opportunity to live and work in the US, so i do know what it is all about... what i see now is a country that is divided, more so now than ever before, careful where you step from here on...

You already know my stance, so i will not repeat it, but the sanctions have always affected the common man, i was for lifting them five years ago, i am for lifting them today...

 

[charrison]

Originally posted by: SuperTool

Originally posted by: charrison

Originally posted by: SuperTool
Yes, holding back the hopes of the Iraqi people for 12 years is fine when it suits the US, but waiting to have Iraq certified WMD free is not fine if Bush doesn't like it. The hypocrisy of this administration is astounding.

AT this point i think it is safe to say Iraq is in the process of disarming, even if no WMD are found.

If the UN does not lift the sanctions, I fully expect Iraq will become a free trade with the US, UK and the other in the coalition of the willing. Let the UN complain afterwards.

Iraq has been "in the process of disarming" for 12 years, and for every one of those years, the US position was that process itself was not enough to lift sanctions, but that the inspectors have to certify Iraq as free of WMD before sanctions were lifted. I think the sanctions were and are a crime against humanity, perpetrated by the UN with US support. To indiscriminately impose economic sanctions on the civilian economy, which directly lead to civilian deaths and suffering for 12 years is unacceptable. The sanctions were targeted at all civilian trade and commerce, not just trade in military goods. That cannot be justified, no matter what the goal of these sanctions was. We directly targeted Iraqi civilians with these sanctions, even though they did not have a say in what their government did. We punished people for Saddam's behavior, even though they had no control over it. It's a complete disgrace.

And all Saddam had to do was come clean as this was part of his surrender agreement. And I will add that the US was at fault for failing to support uprising against Saddam by the people on 3 different times spanning across 2 presidents. The US carries a burdon of not helping the IRaqi people sooner, but Saddam was solely responsable for the sanctions.

 

[jjones]

Originally posted by: SnapIT

Originally posted by: jjones

Originally posted by: SuperTool
Yes, holding back the hopes of the Iraqi people for 12 years is fine when it suits the US, but waiting to have Iraq certified WMD free is not fine if Bush doesn't like it. The hypocrisy of this administration is astounding.

I don't see the hypocrisy. The former government, which those sanctions were directed against, is no longer in place. But hey, the Iraqis have suffered under a dictator for about 30 years and sanctions because of this dictator for 12, what's a little more suffering of Iraqis if it will make you feel good about opposing Bush's request to get them lifted? Funny thing is, if it were France pressing and saying now that the war is over the UN should lift sanctions, and Bush were saying no, we don't think so yet, I'm sure you would side with France and argue they should be lifted.

You know, just because you agree with one standpoint, it doesn't mean that you agree with everything...

Like, now the US agrees that the sanctions should be lifted, but to say they have the same standpoint that germany did a year ago is not a valid point to make...

Or is it? the rules of the game changes as the days go by...

I'm not sure I follow what you're saying. But I do realize the US has changed its position. In any case, the war, for right or wrong, has changed the landscape in Iraq and the continuation of sanctions doesn't really serve a purpose.

 

[SuperTool]

Originally posted by: charrison

Originally posted by: SuperTool

Originally posted by: charrison

Originally posted by: SuperTool
Yes, holding back the hopes of the Iraqi people for 12 years is fine when it suits the US, but waiting to have Iraq certified WMD free is not fine if Bush doesn't like it. The hypocrisy of this administration is astounding.

AT this point i think it is safe to say Iraq is in the process of disarming, even if no WMD are found.

If the UN does not lift the sanctions, I fully expect Iraq will become a free trade with the US, UK and the other in the coalition of the willing. Let the UN complain afterwards.

Iraq has been "in the process of disarming" for 12 years, and for every one of those years, the US position was that process itself was not enough to lift sanctions, but that the inspectors have to certify Iraq as free of WMD before sanctions were lifted. I think the sanctions were and are a crime against humanity, perpetrated by the UN with US support. To indiscriminately impose economic sanctions on the civilian economy, which directly lead to civilian deaths and suffering for 12 years is unacceptable. The sanctions were targeted at all civilian trade and commerce, not just trade in military goods. That cannot be justified, no matter what the goal of these sanctions was. We directly targeted Iraqi civilians with these sanctions, even though they did not have a say in what their government did. We punished people for Saddam's behavior, even though they had no control over it. It's a complete disgrace.

And all Saddam had to do was come clean as this was part of his surrender agreement. And I will add that the US was at fault for failing to support uprising against Saddam by the people on 3 different times spanning across 2 presidents. The US carries a burdon of not helping the IRaqi people sooner, but Saddam was solely responsable for the sanctions.

So what? Does it make it right to impose sanctions on the civilian population of a country, just because Saddam isn't cooperating? Did they have a say in what Saddam did? We were punishing millions of civilians for actions of one man, when we knew full well that they had no control over those actions. That's collective punishment, which is banned under the 4th Geneva convention. That's why it was a crime against humanity. Bottom line, Saddam didn't care about the suffering of the Iraqi civilians, but neither did we.

 

[SnapIT]

Originally posted by: jjones

Originally posted by: SnapIT

Originally posted by: jjones

Originally posted by: SuperTool
Yes, holding back the hopes of the Iraqi people for 12 years is fine when it suits the US, but waiting to have Iraq certified WMD free is not fine if Bush doesn't like it. The hypocrisy of this administration is astounding.

I don't see the hypocrisy. The former government, which those sanctions were directed against, is no longer in place. But hey, the Iraqis have suffered under a dictator for about 30 years and sanctions because of this dictator for 12, what's a little more suffering of Iraqis if it will make you feel good about opposing Bush's request to get them lifted? Funny thing is, if it were France pressing and saying now that the war is over the UN should lift sanctions, and Bush were saying no, we don't think so yet, I'm sure you would side with France and argue they should be lifted.

You know, just because you agree with one standpoint, it doesn't mean that you agree with everything...

Like, now the US agrees that the sanctions should be lifted, but to say they have the same standpoint that germany did a year ago is not a valid point to make...

Or is it? the rules of the game changes as the days go by...

I'm not sure I follow what you're saying. But I do realize the US has changed its position. In any case, the war, for right or wrong, has changed the landscape in Iraq and the continuation of sanctions doesn't really serve a purpose.

I was against the sanctions from day one as the did not serve a purpose even then... And we all loved how you idiots insisted that it was a good solution, yeah, it did a world of good (not you specifically of course, but your idiotic goverment, and no i do not care about if it was liberal, democrat or republican, it is still a fact)...

A moron could have understood that, now a moron finally has... you call him President, we call him moron... or dubya (while we think moron)....

 

[MrChicken]

Simply put, by arguing against the lifting of sanctions you show that all you care about is Bush/America hating. Or you may actually hate the Iraqis.

Your willingness to let the misery of the Iraqi people continue, reveals what type of person you are.

There is no connection between lifting sanctions for the good of the Iraqi people and whether or not the war was fought for the wrong reasons, illegal, immoral, etc...

 

[BaliBabyDoc]

I'm for lifting all sanctions as soon as a UN-mandated (Iraqi-approved) civilian authority is in place in Iraq.

 

[charrison]

Originally posted by: BaliBabyDoc
I'm for lifting all sanctions as soon as a UN-mandated (Iraqi-approved) civilian authority is in place in Iraq.

Until that happens, I support free trade with Iraq to ensure the people have food, medicine and fuel