"Budget" gaming and streaming build help

[mfenn]

In case anybody was wondering, the prices that Techhog listed don't include the combo discounts. The Case + HDD combo discount is $20. I couldn't find the CPU + mobo combo anymore. He also included the prices of components that he already owns, if you remove those you get $783 - $20 combo = $763.

The parts themselves look fine to me. I would personally prefer a different case, but the Patriot should perform well enough and meets his requirements.

 

[Techhog]

In case anybody was wondering, the prices that Techhog listed don't include the combo discounts. The Case + HDD combo discount is $20. I couldn't find the CPU + mobo combo anymore. He also included the prices of components that he already owns, if you remove those you get $783 - $20 combo = $763.

The parts themselves look fine to me. I would personally prefer a different case, but the Patriot should perform well enough and meets his requirements.

Yeah, the combos are gone now. I actually decided to switch to the Arc Mini 2 since I found that I could switch around some costs. I'm hoping that October brings some good new deals though, particularly $10-20 saved on the HDD or RAM. I would have updated, but I decided to leave it until I saw what combos/rebates would replace the expired ones. Otherwise, yeah, $783 is the total I'm looking at right now, and my hard limit is $800.

 

[Techhog]

So, after a ton of setbacks, I finally have the money I need!

Well, the check clears tomorrow, but still

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant / Benchmarks

CPU: Intel Core i5-4670K 3.4GHz Quad-Core Processor ($239.99 @ Newegg)
CPU Cooler: Cooler Master Hyper 212 EVO 82.9 CFM Sleeve Bearing CPU Cooler ($35.98 @ Newegg)
Motherboard: ASRock Z87 Pro3 ATX LGA1150 Motherboard ($104.99 @ Newegg)
Memory: Crucial Ballistix Sport 8GB (1 x 8GB) DDR3-1600 Memory ($64.99 @ Newegg)
Storage: Western Digital Caviar Blue 1TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive (Purchased For $59.99)
Video Card: PowerColor Radeon HD 7950 3GB Video Card (Purchased For $209.99)
Case: Fractal Design Arc Midi R2 (Black) ATX Mid Tower Case (Purchased For $69.99)
Power Supply: Corsair Enthusiast 650W 80 PLUS Certified ATX12V / EPS12V Power Supply (Purchased For $77.00)
Optical Drive: Lite-On iHAS124-04 DVD/CD Writer (Purchased For $15.00)
Operating System: Microsoft Windows 8 (OEM) (64-bit) ($76.21)
Monitor: Asus VX238H 23.0" Monitor ($129.99 @ Newegg)
Speakers: Cyber Acoustics CA-2014WB 1.5W 2ch Speakers ($10.98 @ Outlet PC)
Total: $1067.10
(Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available.)
(Generated by PCPartPicker 2013-10-09 21:34 EDT-0400)

I want to note that the monitor will actually be bought open-box, so the deal expiring isn't an issue.

Now, one thing on the RAM. With the way that game requirements are increasing and my RAM usage, I want to be able to upgrade to 16GB in the (likely near) future. Thus, I decided on buying a single RAM DIMM so I can later buy another 8GB stick, rather than having 4x4GB, fearing that it might strain the RAM controller. Is my fear justified? If not, I'll get a 2x4GB set now and another 2x4GB set later.

By the way, I don't care about the speakers. They're just there so I have speakers in case I ever need them.

 

[Techhog]

Any help here? Is filling all RAM slots in the future okay?

 

[bob123aka]

Shouldn't really need over 16GB, 32G would just be overkill in the future

 

[Techhog]

Shouldn't really need over 16GB, 32G would just be overkill in the future

Yeah, I know. Just wondering if I should go with 1x8GB or 2x4GB right now. I'm gonna buy in a few hours, and I think I'll go with 2x4GB

 

[mfenn]

1x8GB will be slower than 2x4GB because you won't get dual-channel memory operation. However, the impact in games seems to be minimal, even in the high FPS situations where you'd expect the most difference.

 

[Techhog]

1x8GB will be slower than 2x4GB because you won't get dual-channel memory operation. However, the impact in games seems to be minimal, even in the high FPS situations where you'd expect the most difference.

Yeah, I was aware of that. I was more concerned about later on if I fill all 4 DIMMs and if that would strain the memory controller.

Either way, I've bought almost everything. All of the hardware has been purchased and is even shipped by now. What I haven't ordered is the OS. The reason for this is because I'm waiting for the student discount on Windows 8.1 Pro. I'm guessing that all of the hardware will be delivered by Thursday, meaning that I'd have all of the hardware a couple of days before the OS. Windows 8.1 comes out on Saturday, but the most convenient time for me to build the computer without interruptions would actually be Friday morning/afternoon. So... how should I handle this exactly? Should I just leave the system sitting for a day, or perhaps even install a Linux distro on a small partition initially (I was already considering having a Linux partition) for testing right after the build and download/install Windows the next day?

 

[mfenn]

Yes, you'd probably have to go down to 2N timings if you fill out all 4 DIMM slots. That's not the end of the worth though.

As for Windows, 8.1 should be available on the 17th right? If you by it online you should be able to get the key and ISO file instantly.

 

[Techhog]

Yes, you'd probably have to go down to 2N timings if you fill out all 4 DIMM slots. That's not the end of the worth though.

As for Windows, 8.1 should be available on the 17th right? If you by it online you should be able to get the key and ISO file instantly.

Oh! I thought it was on the 18th, but that only seems to be the case outside of the US. I guess I'm fine then. Thanks for all the help, guys! :thumbsup: Now I just need to hope that this build goes well. I'll update if I think of any questions I need to ask.

EDIT: Oh wait. As I thought, it'll only be available for Windows 8 users as an update on the 17th. It won't actually be sold until the 18th. :/

 

[Techhog]

So, other than the OS issue which I'm still trying to resolve, quick question. A bunch of stuff just got here and I want to read the motherboard manual. The case, however, is NOT here, so I have no easy way to ground myself. Is it safe to just go in the box and grab the manual, considering the anti-static bag?

 

[mfenn]

There is no issue with opening the motherboard box or even handling the board. Just touch any large metal object first (refrigerator, etc.).

You can even post the board without a case, just sit the motherboard on top of its box. It'll be grounded though the PSU.

 

[Techhog]

There is no issue with opening the motherboard box or even handling the board. Just touch any large metal object first (refrigerator, etc.).

You can even post the board without a case, just sit the motherboard on top of its box. It'll be grounded though the PSU.

Okay, cool. And yes, I plan on using the box to test the board before building.

Also, the manual (and some YouTube videos for that matter) recommends leaving the socket cap on during CPU installation and letting it pop out after locking the CPU in the socket. Is that really a safe way to do it? And do I need to clean the CPU before applying TIM? I don't have a microfiber cloth and my isopropyl alcohol is only 91%...

 

[mjd]

If your CPU is new from the box, you don't need to clean it. Though if you see unusual dirt on it, sure, use your common sense. If you're re-installing the CPU fan or the CPU, then it's normal to clean the old thermal paste off with a small amount of alcohol (91% is fine. It's what I use), let it dry (a couple minutes), then apply the new paste and install.
Don't clean the underside of the CPU or the socket - the parts with all the connection nubs.

I pop the socket cap before I insert the CPU. I haven't seen the socket cap technique you mention.

 

[Techhog]

If your CPU is new from the box, you don't need to clean it. Though if you see unusual dirt on it, sure, use your common sense. If you're re-installing the CPU fan or the CPU, then it's normal to clean the old thermal paste off with a small amount of alcohol (91% is fine. It's what I use), let it dry (a couple minutes), then apply the new paste and install.
Don't clean the underside of the CPU or the socket - the parts with all the connection nubs.

I pop the socket cap before I insert the CPU. I haven't seen the socket cap technique you mention.

Okay, it's brand new, so I won't clean it. However, in the event that I seat the heatsink incorrectly, how should I clean it off? Like, I don't have a microfiber cloth, so what do I wipe it off with?

Also, what stress-testing software can I use in Linux?

 

[mjd]

I very carefully use a paper towel or paper napkin to spread the thermal paste. These tools will work fine in a pinch, just be super careful that you're not leaving parts of the tool in your system.

I'm sure an official instruction video on youtube or written instructions would increase your confidence (and probably suggest a different application tool ). You'll be fine. Keep the paste applied on the right surface in a thin layer is all. Don't slop it all over the place or into the socket.

Can't help you with modern linux. There's a thread over in CPUs for testing and burn-in that might be great for you.

 

[Techhog]

I very carefully use a paper towel or paper napkin to spread the thermal paste. These tools will work fine in a pinch, just be super careful that you're not leaving parts of the tool in your system.

I'm sure an official instruction video on youtube or written instructions would increase your confidence (and probably suggest a different application tool ). You'll be fine. Keep the paste applied on the right surface in a thin layer is all. Don't slop it all over the place or into the socket.

Can't help you with modern linux. There's a thread over in CPUs for testing and burn-in that might be great for you.

Okay, thanks. And don't worry, I've already decided on the line method... or maybe the pea method. Um... lol

Also, I just received the last of my components! Probably gonna build either tomorrow evening or Friday morning/afternoon. Too busy tonight.

 

[Aithos]

Yes, you'd probably have to go down to 2N timings if you fill out all 4 DIMM slots. That's not the end of the worth though.

As for Windows, 8.1 should be available on the 17th right? If you by it online you should be able to get the key and ISO file instantly.

With Haswell that is no longer true. You are able to fully populate the memory slots and still run at 1T. Also, you should NEVER buy a single DIMM as opposed to two. Even if you buy a second DIMM of the exact same memory they weren't quality controled and matched together so they may not perform the same. Buy 1x8gb and then 1x8gb is just begging to have problems.

Memory is cheap enough that you should just decide what the max amount of memory you could ever want is and just buy it. If you think 8GB may not be enough then get 16gb now and be done with it. My personal opinion is that no one should buy less than 16gb for a modern build. Games and OS are using more memory than ever and if you're streaming it sure doesn't hurt to have extra. I have 4GB now and that's woefully inadequate for streaming, I'm putting 32gb in my next system which is overkill but I won't have to worry about it.

Okay, it's brand new, so I won't clean it. However, in the event that I seat the heatsink incorrectly, how should I clean it off? Like, I don't have a microfiber cloth, so what do I wipe it off with?

Also, what stress-testing software can I use in Linux?

I would clean it anyway. Get one of those glasses microfiber cloths (the very smooth ones, not fuzzy like some TV cleaning cloths) and some 90% or higher rubbing alcohol (isopropyl) Ideally you want two cloths, one to use in case you need to clean paste and one for finishing. You can use the same cloth (opposite sides) if you're careful, but I used two myself. If you need to clean off paste here is the basics:

1) take some q-tips and your isopropyl alcohol and get as much paste off as you can, then put some alcohol on the microfiber cloth (a little) and rub carefully until it's clean. When it looks clean get a clean section of cloth and some more rubbing alcohol and give it a once over. I also always clean the cpu and heatsink prior to applying paste just to be sure there isn't any dust or prints on the surface. Even if it looks spotless it doesn't hurt to give it a quick once over.

As for Linux, I have no idea...but I haven't tried to run Linux for anything in years.

 

[Techhog]

With Haswell that is no longer true. You are able to fully populate the memory slots and still run at 1T. Also, you should NEVER buy a single DIMM as opposed to two. Even if you buy a second DIMM of the exact same memory they weren't quality controled and matched together so they may not perform the same. Buy 1x8gb and then 1x8gb is just begging to have problems.

Memory is cheap enough that you should just decide what the max amount of memory you could ever want is and just buy it. If you think 8GB may not be enough then get 16gb now and be done with it. My personal opinion is that no one should buy less than 16gb for a modern build. Games and OS are using more memory than ever and if you're streaming it sure doesn't hurt to have extra. I have 4GB now and that's woefully inadequate for streaming, I'm putting 32gb in my next system which is overkill but I won't have to worry about it.



I would clean it anyway. Get one of those glasses microfiber cloths (the very smooth ones, not fuzzy like some TV cleaning cloths) and some 90% or higher rubbing alcohol (isopropyl) Ideally you want two cloths, one to use in case you need to clean paste and one for finishing. You can use the same cloth (opposite sides) if you're careful, but I used two myself. If you need to clean off paste here is the basics:

1) take some q-tips and your isopropyl alcohol and get as much paste off as you can, then put some alcohol on the microfiber cloth (a little) and rub carefully until it's clean. When it looks clean get a clean section of cloth and some more rubbing alcohol and give it a once over. I also always clean the cpu and heatsink prior to applying paste just to be sure there isn't any dust or prints on the surface. Even if it looks spotless it doesn't hurt to give it a quick once over.

As for Linux, I have no idea...but I haven't tried to run Linux for anything in years.

Too late now... not that I could afford 16GB in the first place. RAM is not cheap right now at all. Even if I had the money for 16GB, I would have bought an SSD. I bought 2x4GB for the record.

 

[mfenn]

Also, you should NEVER buy a single DIMM as opposed to two. Even if you buy a second DIMM of the exact same memory they weren't quality controled and matched together so they may not perform the same. Buy 1x8gb and then 1x8gb is just begging to have problems.

What makes you think that each dual channel kit is tested together? They aren't unless you're buying super high-end hand binned memory like the new G.Skill DDR3 3000.

If you buy two DIMMs of the same model, or even different model with the same specs, they will work together. There is just not that much difference between standard DRAM. If the second DIMM doesn't work, it is defective and should be RMA'd.

Memory is cheap enough that you should just decide what the max amount of memory you could ever want is and just buy it. If you think 8GB may not be enough then get 16gb now and be done with it. My personal opinion is that no one should buy less than 16gb for a modern build. Games and OS are using more memory than ever and if you're streaming it sure doesn't hurt to have extra. I have 4GB now and that's woefully inadequate for streaming, I'm putting 32gb in my next system which is overkill but I won't have to worry about it.

The difference between 8GB and 16GB is the same as a difference between a 7950 and a 7970. The latter upgrade will make a much bigger difference in gaming performance, so no I don't agree that you should max out the memory right off the bat.

 

[Techhog]

I got impatient lol. 5 hours later, my build is complete! Now I just need Windows.

Something tells me the cooler won't be quite right though. I messed up twice and had to reapply paste twice. :/ BIOS temp was 35C, but that could probably change a lot in Windows I'm sure.

 

[Techhog]

Well, I screwed up. (Pun intended.) I didn't notice the screw labels on the box, and I ended up using SSD screws on the motherboard. >.< Do I really have to take the whole thing apart again?

EDIT: Okay, switched the screws. It wasn't too-too hard. Now I just need to buy and install Windows and I'm good to go!

 

[Techhog]

I can't find a USB 3.0 driver anywhere. Is that no longer necessary?

Also, as usual, my blank DVDs are gone right when I need them. Figures. Hope I can find them...

 

[mfenn]

Well, do your USB ports work? :awe: If so, then no you don't need an extra driver. Windows 8 has built-in support for 3.0, but you need a driver for Windows 7.

 

[Techhog]

Well, do your USB ports work? :awe: If so, then no you don't need an extra driver. Windows 8 has built-in support for 3.0, but you need a driver for Windows 7.

Okay, that's what I thought. Now I just need to buy a copy of 8.1 due to the fiasco Microsoft sent me through...