Brokaw says Hispanics should try harder to assimilate

[brycejones]

Where did he say different opinions, beliefs, or lifestyles are bad? He said not assimilating is bad. It creates divide - when we were previously known around the world as the melting pot.

Immigrants continue to assimilate just fine in this country and follow the same normal pattern by the second and third generation they are fully assimilated. Do you have evidence to the contrary?

 

[brandonbull]

Assimilate? Ask black people how that's working...lol! The problem with the argument that Hispanics need to assimilate is that every time brown people move in to a white neighborhood, the whites flee and eventually the neighborhood is all brown-skinned.

It's hard for them to assimilate when the whites keep running away from them.

Because that's why people would uproot their families and life is because the super nice "brown people" moved in next door. Or maybe it's hard to assimilate when you don't want to assimilate?

 

[Homerboy]

I'm sorry, what are the Mexicans supposed to "assimilate to"? What exactly is not "American" about them? Do they work too hard? Committed too much to family and neighborhood? Make bitchin' food?

 

[Stokely]

Eh, from a practical standpoint, it does make sense to "assimilate". My wife is Chinese and immigrated here at age 28...she worked her ass off to learn English and while she still struggles (and always will) with more advanced English and with accents, she has built several successful businesses here. She has friends that have lived here for 20-30 years that have never learned it. They watch Chinese tv, only have Chinese friends. My wife has helped them talk to car dealerships, with school officials when one kid was getting beat up and bullied, and many other times. Her sister has been here 10 years and can't do the simplest thing at the DMV or a store that isn't Chinese. Why would you want to be so helpless when it comes to dealing with anything "official"?

If I ever moved somewhere non-English-speaking, job 1 would be learning the language. Hey, if you don't want to, fine, but I would not want to be so dependent on others, and I feel it's pretty arrogant for me to bust over there and demand people change the established means of communication just to save me from making the effort.

None of this means you surrender your culture. And it wouldn't hurt English speakers to learn some other languages either, it's good for you!

 

[K1052]

Eh, from a practical standpoint, it does make sense to "assimilate". My wife is Chinese and immigrated here at age 28...she worked her ass off to learn English and while she still struggles (and always will) with more advanced English and with accents, she has built several successful businesses here. She has friends that have lived here for 20-30 years that have never learned it. They watch Chinese tv, only have Chinese friends. My wife has helped them talk to car dealerships, with school principles when one kid was getting beat up and bullied, and many other times. Her sister has been here 10 years and can't do the simplest thing at the DMV or a store that isn't Chinese. Why would you want to be so helpless when it comes to dealing with anything "official"?

None of this means you surrender your culture. And it wouldn't hurt English speakers to learn some other languages either, it's good for you!

The first generation born/raised in the US are the ones who really assimilate. What you describe isn't really much different than my great grandparents who's command of English (and US motor vehicle laws apparently) was highly questionable for their entire lives.

 

[Jhhnn]

Eh, from a practical standpoint, it does make sense to "assimilate". My wife is Chinese and immigrated here at age 28...she worked her ass off to learn English and while she still struggles (and always will) with more advanced English and with accents, she has built several successful businesses here. She has friends that have lived here for 20-30 years that have never learned it. They watch Chinese tv, only have Chinese friends. My wife has helped them talk to car dealerships, with school officials when one kid was getting beat up and bullied, and many other times. Her sister has been here 10 years and can't do the simplest thing at the DMV or a store that isn't Chinese. Why would you want to be so helpless when it comes to dealing with anything "official"?

If I ever moved somewhere non-English-speaking, job 1 would be learning the language. Hey, if you don't want to, fine, but I would not want to be so dependent on others, and I feel it's pretty arrogant for me to bust over there and demand people change the established means of communication just to save me from making the effort.

None of this means you surrender your culture. And it wouldn't hurt English speakers to learn some other languages either, it's good for you!

The ability to learn a second language varies enormously by the individual. It's a talent like musical ability or an aptitude for higher mathematics.

 

[s0me0nesmind1]

The ability to learn a second language varies enormously by the individual. It's a talent like musical ability or an aptitude for higher mathematics.

Yeah I kind of agree with that - except unlike learning a musical instrument... there is this little thing called societal pressure that plays a factor in why you should have an effort.

If you can't communicate with police officers, you're probably going to have some issues.
If you can't communicate with a retail store employee, you're probably going to have issues.
If you can't communicate with government employees (DMV, tax office, etc.) you're probably going to have issues.
If you can't communicate with doctors, you're probably going to have some issues.

The list goes on and on and on.

Having those types of issues in your daily day-to-day life is your incentive to learn (which isn't something you get from learning a musical instrument). There are clearly those who attempt to learn, and clearly those that just don't seem to care. Those are typically the stupid ones - and they are also (coincidentally) the ones that are destined to remain in the lower class.

 

[trenchfoot]

The ability to learn a second language varies enormously by the individual. It's a talent like musical ability or an aptitude for higher mathematics.

I work with 1st gen immigrants every day at work and can confirm your assessment. Some have it easy, some struggle a lot, even when English is taught as a secondary language at the primary grade levels in their home countries.

Those that struggle will learn the barest level of English to get by and not even try to improve while some others keep on trying their best. These folks rely on the more fluent ones in order to understand what's needed to accomplish the particular job at hand.

 

[pmv]

The ability to learn a second language varies enormously by the individual. It's a talent like musical ability or an aptitude for higher mathematics.

My purely-anecdotal impression is it's a lot easier for those who were bilingual from the start. People I know who were raised speaking two languages seem to find it annoyingly easy learn additional ones. Indeed they seem to find it hard to understand how difficult it is for those of us whose brains seem to have locked into some sort of "monolingual mode". (Which I envisage as being something akin to DVD region-coding!)

 

[BurnItDwn]

My purely-anecdotal impression is it's a lot easier for those who were bilingual from the start. People I know who were raised speaking two languages seem to find it annoyingly easy learn additional ones. Indeed they seem to find it hard to understand how difficult it is for those of us whose brains seem to have locked into some sort of "monolingual mode".

I agree a million percent, also there's lots of research on the subject!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neuroscience_of_multilingualism

Essentially, infants exposed to multiple languages tend to form denser inferior parietal cortex than those exposed only to 1 language.
This is thought to increase the brain's capacity for plasticity.
Higher plasticity is thought to help a LOT with learning new languages.

 

[1prophet]

I think it would be cool for Mexican culture to melt into US culture. It might help our culture to have a better work ethic, be happy with less, and appreciate opportunity more.

No unions or toothless ones, no living wages, open misogyny and machismo , your boss's way or the highway, be happy you are getting paid enough for bread and water, lax if any environmental laws, etc., etc., as well as assassination of politicians that stand up to crime and corruption, as long as the profits roll in for the 1% it's all cool to be like Mexico.

Funny with all those good paying jobs and industries worth many billions moving south of the border and that enormous oil output, people still want to come to the US and risk life and limb doing so.

Yet all this is forgotten because of the current social justice mentality ingrained into today's liberals and democrats that have forgotten why the Western world like the USA progressed ahead, and they believe all the opportunities and benefits they take for granted are expected to stay if we become Mexico.

 

[sdifox]

Where did he say different opinions, beliefs, or lifestyles are bad? He said not assimilating is bad. It creates divide - when we were previously known around the world as the melting pot.

Why hasn't Trump assimilated? He is still golfing all over the place.

 

[Jhhnn]

No unions or toothless ones, no living wages, open misogyny and machismo , your boss's way or the highway, be happy you are getting paid enough for bread and water, lax if any environmental laws, etc., etc., as well as assassination of politicians that stand up to crime and corruption, as long as the profits roll in for the 1% it's all cool to be like Mexico.

Funny with all those good paying jobs and industries worth many billions moving south of the border and that enormous oil output, people still want to come to the US and risk life and limb doing so.

Yet all this is forgotten because of the current social justice mentality ingrained into today's liberals and democrats that have forgotten why the Western world like the USA progressed ahead, and they believe all the opportunities and benefits they take for granted are expected to stay if we become Mexico.

The GOP constantly strives to emulate the distribution of wealth, income & power so prevalent in autocracies throughout the world.

 

[TheVrolok]

Seems that much of the argument has to do with what people consider "assimilation." I don't see this as forsaking native culture, but rather, as Brokaw said not just being codified in immigrant communities. Certainly, there is assimilation going on every day in this country, but it's not evenly distributed. Again, as Brokaw said this will take effort on both sides.

As someone who has lived in two cities that are both heavily populated by Latinos (not including having lived in Miami for a number of years), and married a latina immigrant, I can see both sides of the argument.

 

[brycejones]

No unions or toothless ones, no living wages, open misogyny and machismo , your boss's way or the highway, be happy you are getting paid enough for bread and water, lax if any environmental laws, etc., etc., as well as assassination of politicians that stand up to crime and corruption, as long as the profits roll in for the 1% it's all cool to be like Mexico.

Funny with all those good paying jobs and industries worth many billions moving south of the border and that enormous oil output, people still want to come to the US and risk life and limb doing so.

Yet all this is forgotten because of the current social justice mentality ingrained into today's liberals and democrats that have forgotten why the Western world like the USA progressed ahead, and they believe all the opportunities and benefits they take for granted are expected to stay if we become Mexico.

Where did anyone in this thread say be like Mexico? Seems like you were just looking for another whine fest about liberals and SJWs regardless of the subject at hand.

 

[dainthomas]

Why exactly are different opinions, beliefs, and lifestyles bad for the country in general? Why would it better if we were all the same?

Everything would be so much better if we all assimilated into the Republican hive mind. Seriously, it would be great. Just be calm and feel the tranquility of surrendering your individual beliefs and ideals. Any discomfort you feel will go away if you just relax....

 

[hal2kilo]

Brokaw?
Is he still alive?

He's getting so old his speech impediment is really showing.
Saying lol would be really hard for him.
He's not aging well.

 

[Bitek]

Eh, from a practical standpoint, it does make sense to "assimilate". My wife is Chinese and immigrated here at age 28...she worked her ass off to learn English and while she still struggles (and always will) with more advanced English and with accents, she has built several successful businesses here. She has friends that have lived here for 20-30 years that have never learned it. They watch Chinese tv, only have Chinese friends. My wife has helped them talk to car dealerships, with school officials when one kid was getting beat up and bullied, and many other times. Her sister has been here 10 years and can't do the simplest thing at the DMV or a store that isn't Chinese. Why would you want to be so helpless when it comes to dealing with anything "official"?

If I ever moved somewhere non-English-speaking, job 1 would be learning the language. Hey, if you don't want to, fine, but I would not want to be so dependent on others, and I feel it's pretty arrogant for me to bust over there and demand people change the established means of communication just to save me from making the effort.

None of this means you surrender your culture. And it wouldn't hurt English speakers to learn some other languages either, it's good for you!

Good post.

I think some of the negative reaction to Brokaw is overblown.

I watched to episode as it aired, you knew that but was going to get some attention, and even a panel member pushed back on the English comment.

From my own experiences with neighbors, coworkers, friends and family members working to "assimilate," saying to these people that learning English is not that important is tremendous disservice and will only isolate and limit their potential in the long run.

Learning the language is very difficult, and takes a lot of work to just be even moderately understandable. I totally understand why people quit or don't try and just stay in isolated communities.

Imo, that's lack of assimilation. You never really become a member of the larger community, and instead remain in a little bubble of your old culture. Neither side really gets the full benefit of the relocation, and instead settles on waiting for the next gen to do what they couldn't.

 

[Jaskalas]

Agreed, but the whole works best when it’s "the whole". Not assimilating creates fragmented parts which isn’t good for the country in general.

Sure, but to what degree? Differences are fine and can meld together on their own, over time. And I'm talking decades / generations / hundreds of years. A time frame we fail to appreciate, but can work wonders IF we don't polarize and blow each other up first.

 

[K1052]

Imo, that's lack of assimilation. You never really become a member of the larger community, and instead remain in a little bubble of your old culture. Neither side really gets the full benefit of the relocation, and instead settles on waiting for the next gen to do what they couldn't.

Assimilation is an intergenerational process and there is zero evidence I'm aware of that hispanics are somehow behind the curve of my long dead European ancestors. Most of America is far too removed from their family histories to comprehend that.

Instead I think something of a nativist bias gets exposed with comments like his that actually cuts across political and partisan lines. This should be examined with a bit more critical eye.

 

[MavericK96]

I never liked the term "melting pot". I don't think the idea was for everyone to lump together into a homogeneous blob with no defining characteristics or interesting culture.

Seems more like the goal would be something like a mixed salad - individual pieces retain their individuality but they all work well together.

 

[TheVrolok]

The ability to learn a second language varies enormously by the individual. It's a talent like musical ability or an aptitude for higher mathematics.

On a similar spectrum, though, is how fluent one needs to be to have been considered assimilated. Certainly, speaking fluently and having advanced discussions is too much to ask (IMHO), but a "functional" level may not be given age and occupational context.

 

[TheVrolok]

Assimilation is an intergenerational process and there is zero evidence I'm aware of that hispanics are somehow behind the curve of my long dead European ancestors. Most of America is far too removed from their family histories to comprehend that.

Instead I think something of a nativist bias gets exposed with comments like his that actually cuts across political and partisan lines. This should be examined with a bit more critical eye.

While I do agree with your premise, things are a little different now. There was much less of an option not to assimilate m in a country that did not have the safety net and technology that currently exists.

Also a little tough to talk evidence.. Do you have any evidence that Hispanics are not behind the curve of our European ancestors? Shrug.

 

[s0me0nesmind1]

Assimilation is an intergenerational process and there is zero evidence I'm aware of that hispanics are somehow behind the curve of my long dead European ancestors. Most of America is far too removed from their family histories to comprehend that.

Instead I think something of a nativist bias gets exposed with comments like his that actually cuts across political and partisan lines. This should be examined with a bit more critical eye.

Zero evidence? Call any corporate 1-800 number and tell me where I can press 3 for Mandarin, German, or French

There is OBVIOUS catering to the hispanic community. There are plenty of roads I drive down where the billboards start to all be in spanish. I'm not exactly old to remember mass migration from Europe, but not once have I seen those types of things for other languages. I've never seen a German go into a Walmart and demand an associate that speaks German. I've never seen a cell-phone company send me an advertisement with English on one side and French on the other. But again, that might just be my bias to my area - has anyone else seen it to that scale of another language in the US?

 

[K1052]

Also a little tough to talk evidence.. Do you have any evidence that Hispanics are not behind the curve of our European ancestors? Shrug.

Oh fuck no. That's not how this works.