Absolutely true. I was just looking up lifetime ratings of QBs before this thread was posted and I was stunned at Manning's lifetime compared to montana/favre.
Absolutely true. I was just looking up lifetime ratings of QBs before this thread was posted and I was stunned at Manning's lifetime compared to montana/favre.
Muadib
Lifer
- May 30, 2000
- 18,124
- 912
- 126
If the Vikes can somehow keep this up, then Favre takes MVP with no problem.
Why? Because before the start of the season, almost everyone thought the Vikes were nuts. Just look at the following thread:
http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=317133
I bet there aren't too many who feel that way now. You can't say the same for either of the other 2 QBs mentioned in this thread though. What Peyton & Brees have done so far was expected. How many here felt the same about Brett back when he first signed with the Vikes? Let's see some hands!!
<---- Hand is raised.:biggrin:
Why? Because before the start of the season, almost everyone thought the Vikes were nuts. Just look at the following thread:
http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=317133
I bet there aren't too many who feel that way now. You can't say the same for either of the other 2 QBs mentioned in this thread though. What Peyton & Brees have done so far was expected. How many here felt the same about Brett back when he first signed with the Vikes? Let's see some hands!!
<---- Hand is raised.:biggrin:
IndyColtsFan
Lifer
- Sep 22, 2007
- 33,655
- 688
- 126
The Vikings already had a top defense, plus Adrian Peterson, and were a playoff team a year ago. Regardless of the comments about Favre being a geezer, washed up, etc, I think even a mediocre Favre would be a major improvement over Tavaris Jackson.
On the other hand, I don't think anyone expected the Colts and Saints to be 10-0 at this point. I can't speak much about the Saints, but I can about the Colts. The Colts changed head coaches, released Marvin Harrison, were very close to losing two top assistants to retirement, lost Anthony Gonzalez early in the season, have 2 young receivers (one rookie, one second year) to replace Harrison and Gonzalez, AND have been battling major injuries all year, especially on defense. Many people picked the Colts to finish at 10-6 or below and some even said they would miss the playoffs.
At this point, they are 10-0 largely because of Manning. Sure, the defense has played very well in many games and you could say they won a couple of them. But take Manning away and put Jim Sorgi in, and the Colts might win 4 games all year. Take Favre away, and the Vikings probably still make the playoffs.
Fingolfin269
Lifer
- Feb 28, 2003
- 17,948
- 34
- 91
You're right to a degree. However, my memories of Manning will be those of an awesome QB slinging the ball around protected by the warmth of a dome. On the other hand my memories of Favre will be from those extremely cold/icy/snowy days at Lambeau. To me, the Favre memories represent more of a picturesque football memory.
No, I meant 10-6.
The Vikings last year were 10-6 with Peterson but without Favre. I don't think they would be as good without Peterson but with Favre.
Look at each player on a team. Try to imagine how good/bad the team would be with only an average player instead. That's how you decide MVP IMO.
The colts with an average QB don't make the playoffs. The Vikings with an average QB do, considering they did with a TERRIBLE QB last year. This makes Manning >> Favre since they have a better record with each guy, and would have a WORSE record if both teams took away the players....ie:
Colts with Manning > Vikings with Favre
Cols without Manning < Vikings without Favre
The Viking with an average RB aren't as good as they are with an average QB IMO, so Peterson is the MVP of the team.
Poulsonator
Golden Member
- Aug 19, 2002
- 1,597
- 0
- 76
It doesn't work like that in baseball, either.
Favre absolutely has to be in the MVP discussion. His numbers are sick, his team is playing fantastic, and he's 40 years old. If he doesn't collapse over the last 6 games, he'll get serious consideration.
Ok. We're saying the same thing but in roundabout ways.
Just to point this out, here are the total yards for the offenses around the four QBs mentioned for MVP.
Passing Off / Rushing Off
Minnesota - 10th / 10th
Saints - 6th / 5th
Patriots - 2nd / 15th
Colts - 1st / 31st
I think the clear disparity in their offense illustrates how much the Colt's success hinges on Manning's arm.
Deeko
Lifer
- Jun 16, 2000
- 30,213
- 12
- 81
The fact that he's 40 should have absolutely nothing to do with MVP consideration, and anyone that thinks so is wrong. Comeback player of the year? Sure. MVP? Nah.
He deserves to be in the race because of his numbers and his record, but his age is NOT a factor.
Poulsonator
Golden Member
- Aug 19, 2002
- 1,597
- 0
- 76
Agreed. I just put that in there because it's an amazing thing, him being 40 and having this great of a season.
Deeko
Lifer
- Jun 16, 2000
- 30,213
- 12
- 81
Yea, he's having the best statistical year of his career, which is very impressive at this point. I don't think he's ever had an offensive line or running back like this - not to mention the Vikings defense - which certainly helps the team being 9-1, but it takes more than just a good surrounding cast to have a 21/3 TD/INT ratio after 10 games.
Washoe
Senior member
- Nov 13, 2003
- 425
- 0
- 0
Hi all, long time Vikings fan here. Well I started saying last year that the Vikings would be a SB contender if they had a half decent quarterback. T-Jack absolutely crippled the team last year. There were so many close games that the Vikings had a chance to win, but ended up losing because of Jackson. He threw a pick at the end of the first GB game, which the Vikes lost, and a week or two later he again threw a pick as the Vikings had a chance to beat the Colts. Now take T-Jack out of those games and put Favre in, and you have a winner. By mid season, recall he got yanked and fans were actually cheering for Gus Frerotte. This year - of course - different story.
So do you make the case for Favre as MVP? I think you have to consider him. This team used to be Adrian Peterson's team, and although Adrian is tremendous factor in the team's success, it is now Favre's team. Favre has these guys *believing* they can beat anyone, and the Vikings are now playing with a swagger I have not seen coming from them in years.
The question is - who should be MVP if not Favre. Earlier in the season, I would have said Manning, but Favre lately has been playing even better imo. Remember, Brett came into this year having not ever played with *anyone* on this team before. At least Manning had built a repertoire with Reggie Wayne, his O-line, etc. Favre just jumped in and started slinging the ball around.
The thing is, this Vikings offense is nearly the same as it was last year. A great offensive line. Adrian Peterson and Chester Taylor. Same receivers: Berrian, Rice, Shiancoe. The new guy is Percy Harvin who obviously is making an impact. But the big difference is in the play of the quarterback, and the team is now 9-1. That is better than anyone could have predicted. Take Favre out, put T-Jack in, and I believe the Vikings are looking at 6-4 at best. Does T-Jack make the throw at the end of the SF game? Doubtful. Does T-Jack rally the team against Green Bay (twice) the way Favre did? Doubtful.
As for Drew Brees... yeah a case can be made for him too. It's just not as obvious how much of an impact his play has been on the team. With Favre, it's more obvious given the past history with of Tarvaris Jackson and Gus Frerotte.
I just don't know how a stronger case can be made for anyone else.
So do you make the case for Favre as MVP? I think you have to consider him. This team used to be Adrian Peterson's team, and although Adrian is tremendous factor in the team's success, it is now Favre's team. Favre has these guys *believing* they can beat anyone, and the Vikings are now playing with a swagger I have not seen coming from them in years.
The question is - who should be MVP if not Favre. Earlier in the season, I would have said Manning, but Favre lately has been playing even better imo. Remember, Brett came into this year having not ever played with *anyone* on this team before. At least Manning had built a repertoire with Reggie Wayne, his O-line, etc. Favre just jumped in and started slinging the ball around.
The thing is, this Vikings offense is nearly the same as it was last year. A great offensive line. Adrian Peterson and Chester Taylor. Same receivers: Berrian, Rice, Shiancoe. The new guy is Percy Harvin who obviously is making an impact. But the big difference is in the play of the quarterback, and the team is now 9-1. That is better than anyone could have predicted. Take Favre out, put T-Jack in, and I believe the Vikings are looking at 6-4 at best. Does T-Jack make the throw at the end of the SF game? Doubtful. Does T-Jack rally the team against Green Bay (twice) the way Favre did? Doubtful.
As for Drew Brees... yeah a case can be made for him too. It's just not as obvious how much of an impact his play has been on the team. With Favre, it's more obvious given the past history with of Tarvaris Jackson and Gus Frerotte.
I just don't know how a stronger case can be made for anyone else.
A senior moment with Brett Favre
http://images.yuku.com/image/jpeg/e7d26604e6fc881f320ad1722732987f80332d6c.jpg
http://images.yuku.com/image/jpeg/e7d26604e6fc881f320ad1722732987f80332d6c.jpg
Well, last night's goose egg pretty much ended Favre's MVP bid. Unless Favre has an absolutely insane finish to the season and the others completely collapse, the MVP is Peyton Manning's or Drew Brees' for the taking.
Homerboy
Lifer
- Mar 1, 2000
- 30,890
- 5,001
- 126
well lets be fair. He still threw for 275 yrds and 2 TDs. He did toss 2 INTs, but that bring his season total to what....5? He's till an top runner.
Lots of football left.
I'll say this too, and it maybe being a "homer" but lets not count out Woodson on the Packers either. QBs and RBs are always the shoe-ins, but Woodson is having a career season in GB. I'm not saying he will win MVP, but Defensive Player of the Year is well within his sites.
The second TD was a garbage TD when the game was already decided, and the two INTs were all on him and were very costly.
Peyton Manning and Drew Brees are putting up gaudy numbers as well, and their teams are both steamrolling to perfect seasons thus far. It is hard to argue against that now, especially after last night's game.
gorcorps
aka Brandon
- Jul 18, 2004
- 30,741
- 456
- 126
Do you just watch the Vikings or something? Both Brees and Manning have had less than stellar games, but still managed to pull out a win. I think they're all damn near even at this point
I will quote part of my post again, but read it carefully this time.
CMP ATT YDS CMP% YPA LNG TD INT SACK RAT
Favre 2009 278 403 3149 69.0 7.81 63 26 5 25 108.5
Brees 2009 271 392 3536 69.1 9.02 75 29 10 15 111.3
Manning 2009 322 460 3685 70.0 8.01 80 25 11 10 101.9
Considering their stats are pretty much equal, it will come down to how they are leading their respective teams. The Saints and Colts are 12-0. The Vikings are 10-2. Peyton Manning also doesn't have the luxury of a top back like Adrian Peterson; Manning pretty much IS the entire Colts team, and opposing defenses are keyed in to him every single game. Favre is having a great season, no doubt, but you cannot argue with the results. 12-0 beats out 10-2.
Other than good stats and the comeback drive against the 49ers, what MVP-type performances has Favre had? Manning and Brees have had many this year. The Vikings were 10-6 last year without Favre, meaning that they had a decent team in place. The Colts would be abysmal without Manning, and the Saints would probably be middling-to-pitiful like they were before Brees came to town.
Next week will be a true test. Favre needs to have a good game and lead his team to victory over the contending Bengals, or his MVP chances are done. I still have Favre at #3 behind Manning and Brees (like the majority of sports commentators do), but you have to win the big games when the odds are stacked against you to be considered the MVP of the league. He could still win it, but last night's game didn't do him any favors, and it separated Manning and Brees from the pack.
As an aside: Favre has been sacked 25 times? Wow...I would have never even imagined that many.
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Brett Farve has shaped the Vikings into a strong team and brings up the level of play of all the players on the team, and he certainly is playing phenomenally well this season, but I don't think he deserves the MVP over Peyton Manning.
Peyton Manning has been that to the Colts and more, and he has brought wins to the Colts for 12 straight games. He's just consistently a fantastic leader and player, and accounts for the weaknesses and strengths of his team.
I think Brees deserves consideration up there with Manning, and would put him slightly ahead of Favre, but it's still very close between the 3. I would have to say Peyton Manning should get the MVP at this point, but a lot depends on the circumstances and play for the rest of the season.
Peyton Manning has been that to the Colts and more, and he has brought wins to the Colts for 12 straight games. He's just consistently a fantastic leader and player, and accounts for the weaknesses and strengths of his team.
I think Brees deserves consideration up there with Manning, and would put him slightly ahead of Favre, but it's still very close between the 3. I would have to say Peyton Manning should get the MVP at this point, but a lot depends on the circumstances and play for the rest of the season.
Good post. This is more or less what I was saying as well. All three of them are excellent and deserve consideration, but (at this point) Manning is the clear-cut MVP, considering the Colts would more than likely be 3-13 or worse without Manning in charge. He IS the Colts. 12-0 also speaks louder than 10-2.
gorcorps
aka Brandon
- Jul 18, 2004
- 30,741
- 456
- 126
A Bears fan and you think the VIKINGS fail? Christ you Bears are the most annoying fans I can imagine. I define failure this year by the Bears. One of the worst trades I've seen at the beginning of the season, signing that dopey QB to an extra 2 years when he has the most turnover in the league. You guys are going to suck for the next 3 years... Have fun
And what, exactly, do the Bears have to brag about, other than having possibly the worst overpaid QB in the league, right up there with Matt Cassel and JaMarcus Russell?
ScottFern
Diamond Member
- Oct 23, 2002
- 3,629
- 2
- 76
I see I struck a cord with Mr. Sensitive. At least after week 8 we weren't gunning for a 1st round bye and home field advantage in the playoffs, you guys thought you were hot shit and in one game single-handedly self destructed. lol
Good luck with #4!!! He was bound to tank sooner or later.
I guess as a Bears fan, you would know all about tanking, wouldn't you? At least the Vikings are in the playoff hunt.
Shoo troll, shoo! Back under your bridge!
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