BREAKING: "Firearms incident" outside UK parliament

[Ichinisan]

Fucking hell man!

Pakistan isn't part of the middle East.

It's part of the Indian subcontinent.

Which is part of Asia.

Being wrong is ok.

Being ignorant is ok(ish).

Being willfully ignorant in the face of facts is a sign that theres something wrong with your mind.

The term "Middle East" is specifically used to refer to a not-very-defined region of both Europe and Asia. What is your point?

Hint: "middle east" is not the same as "middle of Asia." So which areas would you refer to as "middle east?" Some of it is in Europe. Some of it is in Asia. The parts of the "middle east" that are in Asia are in the western-most part of Asia. Being in Asia does not disqualify it from being "Middle East." We area talking about the Eurasian continent, in the eastern hemisphere. Pakistan is right against that area we call "Middle East."

Come on!

Why don't you tell us what you thought "middle east" means?

 

[Ichinisan]

I clearly told you to go ahead and call him what you like. The fact remains this didn't occur in the States so however it is reported from another country is up to them. They did not need to accommodate you. You are wrong from their perspective therefore, their Country, their rules now hush up about it. This is an ugly conversation and wholly unnecessary... Annnnd they are correct. Americans would be wrong because we're ignorant and lump all "brown skin" people together because we're jackasses like that.

Circular reasoning!

You're lumping a lot more ethnicities together, by the way.

 

[HTFOff]

.
Main goal of ilamist is to change our way of life. So just keep doing what we are doing.

No the main goal of terrorists is bloodshed. Putting a barrier on the side of a bridge where there is no cover, no place to run except for a 30 foot leap in to the river is more than reasonable and applicable.

 

[sdifox]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Middle_East

Seems very defined to me.

 

[HamburgerBoy]

Ichinisan, this is kind of like arguing "How can you call Ohio part of the Midwest? It's CLEARLY east to the center of the continental US." Whether or not the term has an immediately obvious context-free meaning, it does have an established definition that people follow. English works that way sometimes.

 

[sdifox]

No the main goal of terrorists is bloodshed. Putting a barrier on the side of a bridge where there is no cover, no place to run except for a 30 foot leap in to the river is more than reasonable and applicable.

No the bloodshed is just the mean to an end.

 

[Younigue]

Circular reasoning!

You're lumping a lot more ethnicities together, by the way.

Fair enough. I mean Americans who are poorly educated and opt to stay that way. There, I've excluded myself and many others.

 

[pmv]

If you're trying to convey his appearance, why would you use the most vague term you can possibly use?

Does he look at all similar to Shigeru Miyamoto? Anton Yelchin? Vladimir Putin?

Why is there opposition to saying "the attacker appeared to be of middle-eastern descent?"

Why would someone choose to use the least specific of all the accurate terms they could use if they were actually trying to convey the physical appearance of the attacker?

[edit]
Look on the first page of this thread and you see many confused people. If conveying his physical ethnic appearance is your goal, saying only "Asian" would be a demonstrably poor way to accomplish that.

You see confused people because this site is mostly US-based. Hence people speak American English. Hence the use of the English term 'Asian' confused people. Words have meaning in a particular language. In English English "Asian" is understood to mean what would more accurately be called 'South Asian', because the first and by far the largest, group of people from Asia to arrive in the UK are from South Asia. Just as in US English it gets taken to mean what should be called 'East Asian'.

It's absolutely true that all these racial terms are always a bit awkward (because race is an intrinsically awkward subject) and liable to change over time (e.g. black vs African American) and its probably better to be cautious until one can be specific and accurate ('cos it's easy to get it wrong, sometimes with really bad consequences, come to think of it, as with Jean Charles de Menezes ). But you are complaining, in essence, at non-Americans not speaking American.

As for your claim that Pakistan is in the 'Middle East' - there you aren't even being consistent with US usage. You are free to construct your own language, but you don't have the right to insist the rest of us speak it. Are you seriously saying terms like 'Middle East' have scientific objective meanings that follow from the spellings or sounds of the words, rather than the meaning that they have historically been taken to have by a given language community?

 

[twjr]

I think he's back on a British TV show now but crops up on some US shows from time to time. Exile him to Perth or something next time please.

Please don't send him to Perth. We already have enough meatheads here.

 

[Ichinisan]

... But you are complaining, in essence, at non-Americans not speaking American.

Really, it's almost like a language/culture barrier. A communication problem many in the UK apparently don't acknowledge. People refuse to acknowledge the confusion it caused in this thread and tell me the American dialect in this instance is "wrong." Brits can keep saying it that way, but it doesn't mean everyone else is "wrong." Objectively, there are good reasons the UK usage of that term doesn't universally convey meaning in the Western Hemisphere.

As for your claim that Pakistan is in the 'Middle East' - there you aren't even being consistent with US usage.

Not even referring to a country, but an ethnic appearance being described. Anyway, Pakistan is right on the edge of the "Middle East," with ethnically similar people all around. Ethnicities don't start and stop at the Pakistan border. Even the White House considered Pakistan to be part of the "Middle East" during the Bush 2 tenure. This is a term used to refer to a general region. Trying to confine the definition to specific countries defeats the entire reason the term developed.

Are you seriously saying terms like 'Middle East' have scientific objective meanings that follow from the spellings or sounds of the words, rather than the meaning that they have historically been taken to have by a given language community?

I'm most certainly not saying "Middle East" is a fixed area with well-defined borders. It's kinda nebulous. It's a generalization for an area that includes parts of Europe and parts of Asia. When someone says, "Middle East," I have a general idea what part of the world they are referring to. When they say "Asia," a much larger area comes to mind. That's true of most in the USA, apparently. It's not "wrong."

 

[sandorski]

Really, it's almost like a language/culture barrier. A communication problem many in the UK apparently don't acknowledge. People refuse to acknowledge the confusion it caused in this thread and tell me the American dialect in this instance is "wrong." Brits can keep saying it that way, but it doesn't mean everyone else is "wrong." Objectively, there are good reasons the UK usage of that term doesn't universally convey meaning in the Western Hemisphere.


Not even referring to a country, but an ethnic appearance being described. Anyway, Pakistan right on the edge of the "Middle East," with ethnically similar people all around. Ethnicities don't start and stop at the Pakistan border. Even the White House considered Pakistan to be part of the "Middle East" during the Bush 2 tenure. This is a term used to refer to a general region. Trying to confine the definition to specific countries defeats the entire reason the term developed.


I'm most certainly not saying "Middle East" is a fixed area with well-defined borders. It's kinda nebulous. It's a generalization for an area that includes parts of Europe and parts of Asia. When someone says, "Middle East," I have a general idea what part of the world they are referring to. When they say "Asia," a much larger area comes to mind. That's true of most in the USA, apparently. It's not "wrong."

You're the one insisting their usage is wrong. Quit projecting already.

 

[Younigue]

Really, it's almost like a language/culture barrier. A communication problem many in the UK apparently don't acknowledge. People refuse to acknowledge the confusion it caused in this thread and tell me the American dialect in this instance is "wrong." Brits can keep saying it that way, but it doesn't mean everyone else is "wrong." Objectively, there are good reasons the UK usage of that term doesn't universally convey meaning in the Western Hemisphere.


Not even referring to a country, but an ethnic appearance being described. Anyway, Pakistan right on the edge of the "Middle East," with ethnically similar people all around. Ethnicities don't start and stop at the Pakistan border. Even the White House considered Pakistan to be part of the "Middle East" during the Bush 2 tenure. This is a term used to refer to a general region. Trying to confine the definition to specific countries defeats the entire reason the term developed.


I'm most certainly not saying "Middle East" is a fixed area with well-defined borders. It's kinda nebulous. It's a generalization for an area that includes parts of Europe and parts of Asia. When someone says, "Middle East," I have a general idea what part of the world they are referring to. When they say "Asia," a much larger area comes to mind. That's true of most in the USA, apparently. It's not "wrong."

Then absurd. They truly were not reporting for Americans sake so our "confusion" matters little.

 

[Victorian Gray]

Then absurd. They truly were not reporting for Americans sake so our "confusion" matters little.

American exceptionalism at it's best.

 

[Younigue]

American exceptionalism at it's best.

Indeed. What wet think say and do matters most. Note to self - Remind all my Canadian friends. They're going to take it poorly.

 

[sdifox]

Please don't send him to Perth. We already have enough meatheads here.

Are you bidding on the bag of air from Adele concert? :awe:

 

[sdifox]

Really, it's almost like a language/culture barrier. A communication problem many in the UK apparently don't acknowledge. People refuse to acknowledge the confusion it caused in this thread and tell me the American dialect in this instance is "wrong." Brits can keep saying it that way, but it doesn't mean everyone else is "wrong." Objectively, there are good reasons the UK usage of that term doesn't universally convey meaning in the Western Hemisphere.


Not even referring to a country, but an ethnic appearance being described. Anyway, Pakistan is right on the edge of the "Middle East," with ethnically similar people all around. Ethnicities don't start and stop at the Pakistan border. Even the White House considered Pakistan to be part of the "Middle East" during the Bush 2 tenure. This is a term used to refer to a general region. Trying to confine the definition to specific countries defeats the entire reason the term developed.


I'm most certainly not saying "Middle East" is a fixed area with well-defined borders. It's kinda nebulous. It's a generalization for an area that includes parts of Europe and parts of Asia. When someone says, "Middle East," I have a general idea what part of the world they are referring to. When they say "Asia," a much larger area comes to mind. That's true of most in the USA, apparently. It's not "wrong."

You are complaning about a British news article not using American usage of the word Asian.

Bering Straight is at the narrowest point 82km wide. By your logic USA is in Asia.

P. S. George W Bush should not be your teacher in any subject.

 

[greatnoob]

Always knew Muricans were fucking idiots but not knowing basic geography, that's the epitome of stupidity. Very entertaining seeing the stereotype validated so wonderfully here.

@Ichinisan youve made yourself look like an ignorant dumb fuck. "He's obviously Middle Eastern because he has brown skin lol he ain't no Chinese hurhur derp"

Should've paid more attention In Geography class, dumb wise and beautiful woman.

 

[Younigue]

Always knew Muricans were fucking idiots but not knowing basic geography, that's the epitome of stupidity. Very entertaining seeing the stereotype validated so wonderfully here.

@Ichinisan youve made yourself look like an ignorant dumb fuck. "He's obviously Middle Eastern because he has brown skin lol he ain't no Chinese hurhur derp"

Should've paid more attention In Geography class, dumb wise and beautiful woman.

Wow, that seems unnecessarily rough.

 

[greatnoob]

Wow, that seems unnecessarily rough.

He's likely way older than I am. Knowing somebody can be this wilfully ignorant and obtuse at such an age should make it obvious that they don't really care about learning from their mistakes and instead want to feel like they are right, even when proven wrong. There are people who died from a terrorist attack and this uneducated fuckwit has been spewing his blatantly racist and misinformed drivel for the last 3-4 pages. You really think I care about his feelings?

 

[Ichinisan]

Always knew Muricans were fucking idiots but not knowing basic geography, that's the epitome of stupidity. Very entertaining seeing the stereotype validated so wonderfully here.

@Ichinisan youve made yourself look like an ignorant dumb fuck. "He's obviously Middle Eastern because he has brown skin lol he ain't no Chinese hurhur derp"

Should've paid more attention In Geography class, dumb wise and beautiful woman.

Clearly going on your own premise and not reading a thing I said.

You are complaning about a British news article not using American usage of the word Asian.

Bering Straight is at the narrowest point 82km wide. By your logic USA is in Asia.

P. S. George W Bush should not be your teacher in any subject.

Did I accidentally imply something is in Asia that isn't? I don't think I did that. If you can show me an example, I'll gladly correct it.

Always knew Muricans were fucking idiots but not knowing basic geography, that's the epitome of stupidity. Very entertaining seeing the stereotype validated so wonderfully here.

@Ichinisan youve made yourself look like an ignorant dumb fuck. "He's obviously Middle Eastern because he has brown skin lol he ain't no Chinese hurhur derp"

Should've paid more attention In Geography class, dumb wise and beautiful woman.

Sure. Do you really think I said Pakistan wasn't in Asia? Really? Keep telling yourself that. It won't be true. In what way have I shown any geographical confusion?

Funny how some of you convince yourselves I said something I never actually said. Mocking me repeatedly with something I never said is just confounding. I know exactly where Pakistan is. I know exactly where India is.

 

[Ichinisan]

He's likely way older than I am. Knowing somebody can be this wilfully ignorant and obtuse at such an age should make it obvious that they don't really care about learning from their mistakes and instead want to feel like they are right, even when proven wrong. There are people who died from a terrorist attack and this uneducated fuckwit has been spewing his blatantly racist and misinformed drivel for the last 3-4 pages. You really think I care about his feelings?

You characterization of me is incorrect. I didn't say those things you paraphrased. It makes me question your reading comprehension. It really seems like you're trying to delude yourself with that statement.

I'll condemn racism with you. Let's find something legitimately racist to condemn.

 

[sdifox]

Clearly going on your own premise and not reading a thing I said.

Did I accidentally imply something is in Asia that isn't? I don't think I did that. If you can show me an example, I'll gladly correct it.


Sure. Do you really think I said Pakistan wasn't in Asia? Really? Keep telling yourself that. It won't be true. In what way have I shown any geographical confusion?

Funny how some of you convince yourselves I said something I never actually said. Mocking me repeatedly with something I never said is just confounding. I know exactly where Pakistan is. I know exactly where India is.

You said Pakistan is next to Afghanistan and Iran so call it Middle East when Pakistan is not part of Middle East. You complained about British news using Asian to describe the perp when the security source provided "middle-aged Asian" to the news paper and tv.

My ridiculous example was following your "next to Middle East equals in Middle East" logic.

Have I attributed anything to you that you did not say?

 

[greatnoob]

You characterization of me is incorrect. I didn't say those things you paraphrased. It makes me question your reading comprehension. It really seems like you're trying to delude yourself with that statement.

I'll condemn racism with you. Let's find something legitimately racist to condemn.

Do you REALLY want me to point it to you? Maybe you should go back a couple of pages and read what you've posted before I make it apparent to you, fool.

 

[Ichinisan]

You said Pakistan is next to Afghanitan and Iran

It is.

so call it Middle East when Pakistan is not part of Middle East.

That's HIGHLY debateable. You seem to think "Middle East" is super-precisely defined. It's literally like saying "somewhere in the middle of these huge areas." Also, I'm talking about regional ethnicity that transcends the borders of a specific country.

You complained about British news using Asian to describe the perp when the security source provided "middle-aged Asian" to the news paper and tv.

I questioned if that's really what the source would have said. I'm told that, in UK, the answer is: "Yes."

I questioned the logic of why those in the U.K. use such a vague and non-specific term.

People tried to tell me that "middle eastern ethnicity" would be completely incorrect. They are wrong.

My ridiculous example was following your "next to Middle East equals in Middle East" logic.

Right on the imprecise vague "border" of a nebulous vaguely-defined area of the world.

Have I attributed anything to you that you did not say?

Kinda.

 

[Ichinisan]

Do you REALLY want me to point it to you? Maybe you should go back a couple of pages and read what you've posted before I make it apparent to you, fool.

Yes.