Brainwashing Camp for Gay Kids

[aidanjm]

Originally posted by: Riprorin
Good for the parents. They are doing what they can to prevent their child from likely going through a life of misery.

What they are doing is more likely to set the kid up for a lifetime of misery and depression. They aren't going to be able to change his sexual orientation, but they might succeed in instilling a great deal of self-hatred and feelings of inadequacy in the kid.

 

[Riprorin]

Originally posted by: aidanjm

Originally posted by: Riprorin
Good for the parents. They are doing what they can to prevent their child from likely going through a life of misery.

What they are doing is more likely to set the kid up for a lifetime of misery and depression. They aren't going to be able to change his sexual orientation, but they might succeed in instilling a great deal of self-hatred and feelings of inadequacy in the kid.

How do you explain the fact that many homosexuals do change their sexual orientation and are living happy, satisfying lives?

 

[JustAnAverageGuy]

Originally posted by: Riprorin
How do you explain the fact that many homosexuals do change their sexual orientation and are living happy, satisfying lives?

I doubt most of their were truly homosexual to begin with.

 

[Steeplerot]

Originally posted by: Riprorin
How do you explain the fact that many homosexuals do change their sexual orientation and are living happy, satisfying lives?

In the pages of lifenews.com I am sure they do rip...I am sure they do...*pats head*

 

[umbrella39]

Originally posted by: Riprorin

Originally posted by: aidanjm

Originally posted by: Riprorin
Good for the parents. They are doing what they can to prevent their child from likely going through a life of misery.

What they are doing is more likely to set the kid up for a lifetime of misery and depression. They aren't going to be able to change his sexual orientation, but they might succeed in instilling a great deal of self-hatred and feelings of inadequacy in the kid.

How do you explain the fact that many homosexuals do change their sexual orientation and are living happy, satisfying lives?

How do you explain married men of 20 years all of a sudden needing to go out and give head to guys?

 

[shira]

Originally posted by: Riprorin
Are you denying that many gays have turned straight?

Are YOU denying that 100 times more have not "turned"?

You are pathetic, Rip, and here's why: If 10,000 peer-reviewed research studied all concluded that homosexuality was not a disease, not a mental illness, you'd still be combing the web to find SOMETHING, some fringe "theory", to support your set-in-concrete beliefs.

Look inside yourself and answer this question honestly:

Is there ANYTHING in principle that could be produced by modern science that would lead you to accept gays as they are, to support same-sex marriage, to conclude they are normal and just fine and don't need "turning"?

 

[shira]

Originally posted by: robertcloud
Just because you don't believe it doesn't mean that you are immune from the eternal torture that awaits your soul.

Just because you believe something and "know" it is true, doesn't make it actually true.

Jihadist suicide bombers "know" they are doing God's work. Why is your "knowledge" any less wrong than theirs?

 

[shira]

Originally posted by: robertcloud
The kid is suicidal because he has let sin permeate his life.

Sorry, but if the kid is suicidal, it's because EVERYONE around him is telling him that his impulses are sin, that his nature is wrong, that that way he is is wrong.

If his parents and his community whole-heartedly accepted him with love and kindness, and didn't try to change, he'd be a happy, well-adjusted kid.

YOU are the problem, not the solution.

 

[aidanjm]

Originally posted by: robertcloud
The first step to help the sinner is for the sinner to acknowledge the sin. The kid shouldn't have been acting on his homosexual impulses. Everyone shares the lusts, but the strong man can resist them. God calls queers to lives of chastity, and this boy disobeyed God.

Why do you assume he is sexually active? He says nothing about having a boyfriend on his blog. I assume he is a virgin. I find it interesting that the most homophobic people seem to assume that every gay person (even teenagers) is sexually active.

 

[shira]

Originally posted by: robertcloud
I know you are a queer, and wickidness permeates your soul, but it is not too late for the child.

I know you are an intolerant bigot, and wickedness permeates your soul.

But it is not too late for this child if the parents accept him for who he is.

 

[aidanjm]

Originally posted by: robertcloud

Originally posted by: Legend
Only morons take extremes. Kids shouldn't *always*, but they should in situations like this. They're taking this kid to be mentally tortured.

If he doesn't repent and ask for forgiveness for his sins, he will be facing more than mental torture.

What sins, specifically, are you referring to? You don't even know if he is sexually active. You're just assuming that. I think it is disgusting the way you sexualize gay children. Just because they say they are gay, doesn't mean they are attending orgies every second of the day.

 

[shira]

Originally posted by: zendari
The desire for male anatomy may be chosen on a more subconscious level, but like all desires it can be overcome. And those who do are heroes. :thumbsup:

Why is "choice" such a big issue with you and your ilk? You know this is an intellecutal subterfuge.

What? You don't think so?

Question: If it were proven to your satisfaction that homosexuals did not make a "choice" and that homosexuality were absolutely NOT a mental illness, would you THEN wholeheartedly accept gays, consider them completely normal, accept same-sex marriage, and not label their sexual behavior a sin?

I thought not. So let's drop the "choice" nonsense and get down to what's really going on here:

You have a religious belief, and that belief tells you that homosexuality is a sin. Period. It has nothing to do with psychology, science, or any other objective, demonstrable truth. As much as you'd like to prop up your "truth" with pseudo-scientific arguments, it is all religion and faith for you.

Now, practice saying what you REALLY believe:

"My religion tells me that homosexuality is a sin. I don't care if other religions disagree. My religion is what matters to me. And therefore I think society should make laws that are in accordance with my religious views with respect to homosexuality. And parents should treat their homosexual children as though they are mentally ill, even if they are not actually mentally ill."

 

[shira]

[accidental duplicate post]

 

[NINaudio]

Originally posted by: newParadime

Christianity is not meant for everyone

You're right, it's not meant for people who can make up their own minds on what is right or wrong.



EDIT: I just read through all of this and all I can say is wow. I was raised a Catholic, spent 12 years in catholic schooling, and then turned my back on it. I've decided that I can see for myself what is wrong and what is right. To me it is simply inconceivable that one can go to hell for cursing and not being sorry about it yet a child molester can go to heaven if he apologizes and is sorry for what he did. How is he a better person than the guy who cursed and didn't feel sorry for what he did?

I questioned enough theology teachers in my schools with questions they couldn't answer that they eventually stopped calling on me in class.

As many others have stated there are plenty of religions that claim they are the one and only true religion. How do you know which one really is the "right" one?

 

[judasmachine]

Well said Shira!

 

[shira]

Originally posted by: Riprorin

Originally posted by: Rainsford

Originally posted by: Riprorin
Recent attention has focused on teenagers. Those years of transition into adulthood are a peak time for suicide, often on impulse. The latest research from Minnesota demonstrates that gay male teens are seven times more likely to kill themselves than are their heterosexual counterparts.

Link

Did the study say WHY? My guess is it is because of things like their parents sending them off to gay camp and telling them they are unnatural perversions. Being a teenager is hard enough, being a teenager who's different is much worse. And in most high schools, being a gay teenage male is even worse. I was a pretty normal teenager, but I observed what happened to gay guys my age. I certainly would be more likely to kill myself if I was them.

People like you are the reason these kids are dead. Maybe you didn't put the gun in their hand or pull the trigger, but you still share some of the blame.

People like me?

I've never mistreated or discriminated against a gay person.

I think that your hate mongering is misdirected.

You just don't get it, do you? The very fact that you and your intolerant cohorts self-righteously behave as though homosexuality were a sin and must be supressed, sends a message to gay youth that there is something wrong with them.

If you cannot understand how the constant message of,

"You're a sinner. You must change. Your most basic urges are unhealthy. Change! You are wicked! Change! You are mentally ill. Change!"

can drive children to despair and suicide, then you are more into self-denial than even the worst alcoholic or drug abuser.

It is YOU who have a choice - to love gays unconditionally, to accept them as full members of the community of humanmankind, to work to ensure that have every advantage straights do.

Instead, you CHOOSE to marginalize and label them as outcasts and mentally ill. YOU are the wicked one. By you attitude, YOU are the "torturer" of young children. YOU are the cause of suicides. YOU and your intolerance are evil, not genuine love between two people, whether man/woman, man/man, or woman/woman. You obviously do not believe in the teachings of Jesus. And if there is a heaven, your faith in Jesus won't protect you; you will be going straight to helll.

 

[JustAnAverageGuy]

Shira:

:beer:

 

[canadageek]

my family's been atheist ever since grandpa grew up in an orphanage. he was beaten for no reason, then forced to become a blacksmiths apprentice. where was "choice" there? religion is a freakin' fraud man. think about it. there has barely been a mention of the old gods. Jupiter, Mars and Venus would totally PWN god and his minions

man, i feel sorry for this kid. he should just confess to masturbating and get booted out

finally, any gays who are sick of USA fundies, come to canada! as long as the liberals win the next election, you'll totally be ble to get married.
isn't it great that there's a place for everyone in this world?

 

[Steeplerot]

Don't advertise too much CG, I want there to be some room left in canada when the chimpz0rz starts carpet bombing blue states for jesus.

Actually now that me and my family are in New England I feel safer then in SF now that I know it's not that far to a sane border...😉

 

[boran]

As always religious fundamentalism is a bad thing, it doesnt even matter what kind of religion, just look around, anyone who is blindly beleiving a faith is a danger to society as a whole. I have got nothing against any religion, but imho they all should be approached with at least some form of critical thinking, because if we all were to live according to the bible (I'll take that for example, but it might as well be another religious book) all our lives would be a living hell, I do not have enough knowledge of the bible to get quotes or anything, but I think lots of people can agree that if you applied all what was written literally it would be quite radical. (no condoms for starters, which would make our world look a lot like africa nowadays imho)

and imho those re-education camps are quite orwellian. brainwashing is always dangerous.

 

[aidanjm]

Originally posted by: boran
and imho those re-education camps are quite orwellian. brainwashing is always dangerous.

Not sure if this has been posted yet (apologies if it has)... here is a comparison between this camp for gay kids and cults in general. It seems that this camp/ program has many similarities to cults.


More on Love in Action?s Cult-Like Activities

Following up on my previous post associating Love in Action with cult-like characteristics, here are some specific ways that it behaves in this way. Each example is a quote from Love in Action?s own rules. Thanks to Mike A. for making the suggestion.

Using the criteria from Cultwatch:

*Deception
?Do not tell client who has called for them or who is asking about them. Keep the thoughts of the client focused on his/her treatment.?

*Exclusivism (us vs. them)
?Clients must gain permission through C.O.C. to make or receive phone calls from friends and family members outside the program.?

*Fear and intimidation
Punishment for deviating from the strict rules and regulations includes:
?Isolation from the group?
?Ten to thirty-page written paper on rule violation?
Being placed in a state where ?clients may not speak to each other unless there is a potentially life-threatening emergency?
Having items confiscated that the staff thinks is too gay (?False Images?)

*Love bombing (instant friends, lots of hugs, etc.)
Clients are required to ?Say ?I love you _____? after each person is finished relating.?

*Information control (only cult-supplied information is true)
?Clients are restricted from television-viewing, internet access, secular media, or reading of any kind without specific permission. Clients may not enter any non-Christian bookstores?
?No television viewing, going to movies, or reading/watching/listening to secular media of any kind, anywhere within the client?s and the parent?s/guardian?s control. This includes listening to classical or instrumental music that is not expressly Christian (Beethoven, Bach, etc. are not considered Christian).?
?Clients are not allowed to visit any video, music or media stores that are not expressly Christian, even if accompanied by a parent or guardian. Clients may visit LifeWay Christian stores with a parent or guardian.?
?Refuge clients may only read materials approved by staff.?

Reporting structure
All requests and communications have to be through the ?C.O.C. (Chain of Command)? reporting structure.

*Loaded language
All of their language is loaded. From buzz words such as ?In-phase? and ?corporate? to referring to gayness as ?addiction? and ex-gay conversion as ?sobriety?.

*Time control
?Safekeeping clients are required to spend a minimum of two hours (in one sitting) a day alone in their room?
?Weekend curfew (Friday and Saturday) is 10:00pm. Weekday curfew (Sunday through Thursday) is 9:30pm.?
?Total silence time at home begins at 9:00 p.m. Sunday through Thursday.?
?Lights-out time will begin each night at 10:00 p.m. Sunday through Thursday?
?Refuge clients are allowed a one-time 15-minute maximum closed bathroom door time for shower/grooming purposes. The only other closed-door alone time allowed is for using the restroom?

*Relationship control
?While on the LIA campus, Refuge clients must be in phase at all times, whether indoors or out of doors. A client is ?in phase? when he or she is with two or more other clients (whether Refuge or residential,) one of whom must have been in the program for at least eight weeks. Exceptions to phase rules will be granted by C.O.C. request only.?
?Clients may have no contact with anyone who has left the program prior to graduating without the blessing of the staff to do so. Clients may address off-limit persons they inadvertently encounter with a polite ?hello? only.?
?While in the program, clients may have no contact with anyone involved in unrepentant emotional dependencies, inappropriate sexual behaviors, or chemical dependencies. This includes any contact with friends struggling with dependency issues or inappropriate sexual behavior that was known about prior to entering the program. If such a person is encountered, the client must make his/her staff worker aware of this.?
?Clients must gain permission through C.O.C. to make or receive phone calls from friends and family members outside the program.?
?No cell phones, beepers, computers, or e-mail/internet access.?
?No visitors from out of town without permission via C.O.C.?
?Your client is not allowed to talk to anyone outside of your home including friends or family. Do not tell client who has called for them or who is asking about them.?

*Personal identity replacement
?Any belongings, appearances, clothing, actions, or humor that might connect a client to an inappropriate past are excluded from the program. These hindrances are called False Images (FI?s). FI behavior may include hyper-masculinity, seductive clothing, mannish/boyish attire (on women), excessive jewelry (on men), mascoting, and ?campy? or gay/lesbian behavior and talk.?
?Refuge participants must submit to an F.I. search every morning. [?] Refuge clients may not enter any of the client spaces on campus before submitting to an F.I. search. All belongings brought to campus will be searched, including book bags, notebooks, wallets, handbags, purses, etc.?

These examples are all from the official rules. Having had no personal contact with ex-participants or program staffers, there has to be a lot more information out there. Please feel free to leave that in the comments.

 

[boran]

this is insane, I'm sorry but I can only declare the people that run that camp certifiably insane, the closest analogy is the hitler jugend, or the fascist camps in italy under mussolini. and I think there the kids were even left more freedom. how can a country that is all about freedom even let this happen ? this is the 21st century, yet it doesnt show. (sorry to the jews whom I think are already in the 5th millenia, and to the chineese but I have no idea what time they have)

This is 1984 for real and totally freaks me out (as you might have noticed from my writing 😉) the tought that that can happen in america is just ... nuts. I wont claim it cannot happen here (europe) but I feel the general evolution here is towards acceptance of gay people, with marriages, getting kids, etc, because they are normal people after all and they are slowly being granted the rights everyone here has. now we just have got to outgrow the attitude, but that takes time, and generations, I'd think my generation (ironically from 1984) is quite tolerant towards gay people. offcourse I dont really want to think or get a mental image of two men ykno doing it, and I might be somewhat grossed out if I saw two men pasionatly kissing or so (strangely most men dont really have that problem with seeing two woman doing the same) but that's I think a natural reaction of a hetro person to seing a homo couple. the only way to show that you're an intelligent being and not some animal that can talk is to put yourself over your feelings and think instead of live on instincts and fears. then when you bother to think it's quite logical that you dont condemn or judge or curse the two people, but you accept them.

this is imho something what most religions are built upn, fear, fear from the unknown, trying to keep evrything just as it was, always in place, never progressing, never falling back, never doing anything. if you had given the church a time machine they'd put us all back in the middle ages when they had absolute power over the people, fear of the devil reigned everybody went to church, everyone was afraid and the church was more powerful than any lord or king.
because that's what it is all about, power, control, to control the masses fear is a very effective whip. and people by nature fear what they dont know and dont understand, so it's easy to play upon those fears and thus control the people. in essence people controlled by fear are no more advanced than a herd of cows or sheep.

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: robertcloud

Originally posted by: Steeplerot
good thing your standards only count for the waste of space your body exsists in.

I hope your preacher or whatever straightens you out for preaching such intolerance and lies...soon.

I may be down on christians but I sure am glad most of them have risen above that bvllsh1t you talk about.

I am a very successful preacher actually.

SO was Jim Jomes

 

[zendari]

Originally posted by: shira

Originally posted by: zendari
The desire for male anatomy may be chosen on a more subconscious level, but like all desires it can be overcome. And those who do are heroes. :thumbsup:

Question: If it were proven to your satisfaction that homosexuals did not make a "choice" and that homosexuality were absolutely NOT a mental illness, would you THEN wholeheartedly accept gays, consider them completely normal, accept same-sex marriage, and not label their sexual behavior a sin?

What do you think homosexuality is, besides an illness? An error in the human genome?

 

[robertcloud]

Originally posted by: zendari

Originally posted by: shira

Originally posted by: zendari
The desire for male anatomy may be chosen on a more subconscious level, but like all desires it can be overcome. And those who do are heroes. :thumbsup:

Question: If it were proven to your satisfaction that homosexuals did not make a "choice" and that homosexuality were absolutely NOT a mental illness, would you THEN wholeheartedly accept gays, consider them completely normal, accept same-sex marriage, and not label their sexual behavior a sin?

What do you think homosexuality is, besides an illness? An error in the human genome?

God makes no errors.

If we left these people to their hedonistic ways, God will punish us like he did with the cities of Sodom and Gamorrah. Everyone can turn from evil, and Jesus will be waiting with outstretched arms when they do.