Brady or Manning... A simple POLL

[Phokus]

Originally posted by: slsmnaz

Originally posted by: LegendKiller
As others have said, what Brady has done with the crap he had is amazing. It shows that he is a true leader. Manning has been babied his whole career with a much better team. I guarantee you that if you stick Manning with the crap that Brady had, he'd be far less inspiring. If Manning were so great, he'd have more rings that he does, especially considering the team he has had around him.

Manning did not start out with a great team and it took time to build it around him (3-13 his 1st year and a record for sacks given up IIRC). They finally got a D to go with the O they built and it worked out.

Bill Polian put drafting weapons for Manning over everything else. The Patriots, on the other hand, have drafted weapons for Brady as an afterthought because they KNOW Brady would at least put up good performances even with waiver wire players. When Manning loses Reggie Wayne/Marvin Harrison and has to deal with waiver wire wonders like Jabar Gaffney and Reche Caldwell, lets talk then.

 

[PlatinumGold]

Originally posted by: Phokus

Originally posted by: slsmnaz

Originally posted by: LegendKiller
As others have said, what Brady has done with the crap he had is amazing. It shows that he is a true leader. Manning has been babied his whole career with a much better team. I guarantee you that if you stick Manning with the crap that Brady had, he'd be far less inspiring. If Manning were so great, he'd have more rings that he does, especially considering the team he has had around him.

Manning did not start out with a great team and it took time to build it around him (3-13 his 1st year and a record for sacks given up IIRC). They finally got a D to go with the O they built and it worked out.

Bill Polian put drafting weapons for Manning over everything else. The Patriots, on the other hand, have drafted weapons for Brady as an afterthought because they KNOW Brady would at least put up good performances even with waiver wire players. When Manning loses Reggie Wayne/Marvin Harrison and has to deal with waiver wire wonders like Jabar Gaffney and Reche Caldwell, lets talk then.

amazing how the pats are the greatest team ever and yet, the pats are this group of waiver wire players. :roll:


the arguement you have is, belicheck is >>>>> than tony dungy.

belicheck gets more out of players offense and defense than any other coach in history.

is it because he cheats, maybe, but give credit due where it is due, he is amazing.

that same logic applies, is brady really that good? or is he the product of a system? in mannings case he is the system. without manning the colts are a mediocre team at best. without brady, i think the pats would still be 5-1 at worst this season.

 

[oddyager]

Originally posted by: PlatinumGold

Originally posted by: LegendKiller
As others have said, what Brady has done with the crap he had is amazing. It shows that he is a true leader. Manning has been babied his whole career with a much better team. I guarantee you that if you stick Manning with the crap that Brady had, he'd be far less inspiring. If Manning were so great, he'd have more rings that he does, especially considering the team he has had around him.

by crap you mean that the pats D has been crap for the last 6 seasons, and that the pats O Line has been crap, and the special teams have been crap and the coaching staff has been crap?

oh, you mean just the WR's. i guess only people that catch the ball count. :roll:

Correct. People are comparing QB's and not the entire team so really only the offensive unit has any relevance here. Manning has always had great receivers and backs. Brady had quality but nowhere near the talent Manning had. I also wouldn't rate NE's O-Line that much higher than Indy's over either of those 2 QB's career. I'll give you the coaching though.

 

[jonmcc33]

Originally posted by: oddyager

Originally posted by: jonmcc33
LOL @ everyone voting for Brady. The Patriots are STACKED! Wes Welker was the steal of the off season for them, even more so than Randy Moss.

Sorry, but Peyton Manning is the reason that the Colts won the Super Bowl last year. Tom Brady is not the reason that the Patriots are so dominating this year.

Brady has won Super Bowls over his career with a far less talented offensive unit than this year's. Besides I think most of the people voting for Brady are not basing it on just thiss year, duh.

Duh? I'm sure they are basing it upon the Super Bowl rings. I base it upon the team he had around him and his statistics. If you took Peyton Manning away from the Colts they wouldn't win crap. If you took Tom Brady away from the Patriots they wouldn't have any problem continuing to win. THANKS!

 

[Deeko]

Last year is the ONLY time the Pats had "waiver wire" receivers! Deion Branch, David Givens, Troy Brown...not stars, no, but not even CLOSE to Reche Caldwell.

Harrison went down earlier this year, and the Colts are still undefeated, by the way.

 

[Phokus]

Originally posted by: PlatinumGold

Originally posted by: Phokus

Originally posted by: slsmnaz

Originally posted by: LegendKiller
As others have said, what Brady has done with the crap he had is amazing. It shows that he is a true leader. Manning has been babied his whole career with a much better team. I guarantee you that if you stick Manning with the crap that Brady had, he'd be far less inspiring. If Manning were so great, he'd have more rings that he does, especially considering the team he has had around him.

Manning did not start out with a great team and it took time to build it around him (3-13 his 1st year and a record for sacks given up IIRC). They finally got a D to go with the O they built and it worked out.

Bill Polian put drafting weapons for Manning over everything else. The Patriots, on the other hand, have drafted weapons for Brady as an afterthought because they KNOW Brady would at least put up good performances even with waiver wire players. When Manning loses Reggie Wayne/Marvin Harrison and has to deal with waiver wire wonders like Jabar Gaffney and Reche Caldwell, lets talk then.

amazing how the pats are the greatest team ever and yet, the pats are this group of waiver wire players. :roll:


the arguement you have is, belicheck is >>>>> than tony dungy.

belicheck gets more out of players offense and defense than any other coach in history.

is it because he cheats, maybe, but give credit due where it is due, he is amazing.

that same logic applies, is brady really that good? or is he the product of a system? in mannings case he is the system. without manning the colts are a mediocre team at best. without brady, i think the pats would still be 5-1 at worst this season.

Without Brady you think the Patriots would be 5-1 AT WORST?! ROFL, ok you lost all credibility right there. Look what happened when Matt Cassele stepped in for Brady. They yanked him out in record time and put Brady back in record time because he stunk up the joint. Brady has never been a 'system' QB because the system has evolved so much and Brady has been successful in all of them. After Weiss left, they even started incorporating the Florida Gator's offensive system and Brady started flourishing under that as well. Brady has proven he can play well with ANY receivers. Has Manning proved that? HELL NO.

 

[Phokus]

Originally posted by: Deeko
Last year is the ONLY time the Pats had "waiver wire" receivers! Deion Branch, David Givens, Troy Brown...not stars, no, but not even CLOSE to Reche Caldwell.

Harrison went down earlier this year, and the Colts are still undefeated, by the way.

Yet Brady still performed very well, with crap receivers he has never had a chance to develop a chemistry with. Hell, where are some of the receivers he's worked with now? David Givens hasn't done squat, David Patten disappeared for a few years, Deion Branch hasn't proven himself to be a true #1 yet, Reche Caldwell isn't doing anything, Troy Brown has only been doing spot duty, and Jabbar Gaffney has been relegated to being the #4 receiver on the Patriots. Brady made those receivers look better than they actually were.

 

[slsmnaz]

Originally posted by: Phokus
Brady started flourishing under that as well. Brady has proven he can play well with ANY receivers. Has Manning proved that? HELL NO.

Has PM had a chance to prove that? If not then it doesn't matter what TB did

 

[JeffreyLebowski]

Let's not forget, Manning has the better sense of humor.

 

[PlatinumGold]

Originally posted by: Phokus

Originally posted by: PlatinumGold


amazing how the pats are the greatest team ever and yet, the pats are this group of waiver wire players. :roll:


the arguement you have is, belicheck is >>>>> than tony dungy.

belicheck gets more out of players offense and defense than any other coach in history.

is it because he cheats, maybe, but give credit due where it is due, he is amazing.

that same logic applies, is brady really that good? or is he the product of a system? in mannings case he is the system. without manning the colts are a mediocre team at best. without brady, i think the pats would still be 5-1 at worst this season.

Without Brady you think the Patriots would be 5-1 AT WORST?! ROFL, ok you lost all credibility right there. Look what happened when Matt Cassele stepped in for Brady. They yanked him out in record time and put Brady back in record time because he stunk up the joint. Brady has never been a 'system' QB because the system has evolved so much and Brady has been successful in all of them. After Weiss left, they even started incorporating the Florida Gator's offensive system and Brady started flourishing under that as well. Brady has proven he can play well with ANY receivers. Has Manning proved that? HELL NO.

and you think you have any credibility with ANYONE on ATOT with regards to anything dealing with the pats? you are the biggest homer on the board.

i'm speaking much more non biased as i am not a fan of either team. i've been a falcons fan for 30 yrs and that isn't going to change now.

i didn't say that the pats would be anywhere near where they are as far as offensive scoring, i said they would win, mb not with their second string qb, but with a halfway decent qb, jeff garcia type.

plus, moss makes a qb's job much much easier. his combination of height, speed and hands makes him the best pure WR in the game ever, obviously jerry rice is the greatest wr of all time, but i'm talking just physical skills, moss has it over anyone that's played the game at his position. and no one the colts have ever had comes close to being what moss is, harrison is great (a lesser jerry rice) but he is no where, never has been, in moss's class. harrison can't change the game the way moss can. if nothing else, the height disadvantage is huge.

look at plaxico for the giants, he is an average to below average wr at best if it weren't for his height.

 

[Deeko]

haha, no, they put brady back in because they have no sportsmanship. They wanted to scold the Dolphins for having the audacity to try to mount a comeback. Read Bill Simmons at all? He's pointed out that the Patriots have at least one needless, "Eff You" TD in every game. PS - he's a Patriots fan.

 

[Phokus]

Originally posted by: slsmnaz

Originally posted by: Phokus
Brady started flourishing under that as well. Brady has proven he can play well with ANY receivers. Has Manning proved that? HELL NO.

Has PM had a chance to prove that? If not then it doesn't matter what TB did

No he hasn't. However, several people have said that PM has proven he makes players better than they actually are... even though he gets to keep the same #1 and #2 receivers throughout the years!

If you want to see a QB making players around him look better than they are, just look at TB, he has proven it with countless receivers.

 

[slsmnaz]

Originally posted by: Phokus

Originally posted by: slsmnaz

Originally posted by: Phokus
Brady started flourishing under that as well. Brady has proven he can play well with ANY receivers. Has Manning proved that? HELL NO.

Has PM had a chance to prove that? If not then it doesn't matter what TB did

No he hasn't. However, several people have said that PM has proven he makes players better than they actually are... even though he gets to keep the same #1 and #2 receivers throughout the years!

If you want to see a QB making players around him look better than they are, just look at TB, he has proven it with countless receivers.

PM made Stokley look good.

 

[Deeko]

Reggie Wayne anyone? He's not a "waiver wire" receiver, since you love that term so much....but no way he's worthy of the pro bowl. How about Brandon Stokely, think anyone would know his name were it not for Manning? Uhhh, Kenton Keith sure looked good with Addai injured. What has Dominic Rhodes done this year? Manning makes everyone on his offense much, much better.

 

[Phokus]

Originally posted by: PlatinumGold

Originally posted by: Phokus

Originally posted by: PlatinumGold


amazing how the pats are the greatest team ever and yet, the pats are this group of waiver wire players. :roll:


the arguement you have is, belicheck is >>>>> than tony dungy.

belicheck gets more out of players offense and defense than any other coach in history.

is it because he cheats, maybe, but give credit due where it is due, he is amazing.

that same logic applies, is brady really that good? or is he the product of a system? in mannings case he is the system. without manning the colts are a mediocre team at best. without brady, i think the pats would still be 5-1 at worst this season.

Without Brady you think the Patriots would be 5-1 AT WORST?! ROFL, ok you lost all credibility right there. Look what happened when Matt Cassele stepped in for Brady. They yanked him out in record time and put Brady back in record time because he stunk up the joint. Brady has never been a 'system' QB because the system has evolved so much and Brady has been successful in all of them. After Weiss left, they even started incorporating the Florida Gator's offensive system and Brady started flourishing under that as well. Brady has proven he can play well with ANY receivers. Has Manning proved that? HELL NO.

and you think you have any credibility with ANYONE on ATOT with regards to anything dealing with the pats? you are the biggest homer on the board.

i'm speaking much more non biased as i am not a fan of either team. i've been a falcons fan for 30 yrs and that isn't going to change now.

i didn't say that the pats would be anywhere near where they are as far as offensive scoring, i said they would win, mb not with their second string qb, but with a halfway decent qb, jeff garcia type.

plus, moss makes a qb's job much much easier. his combination of height, speed and hands makes him the best pure WR in the game ever, obviously jerry rice is the greatest wr of all time, but i'm talking just physical skills, moss has it over anyone that's played the game at his position. and no one the colts have ever had comes close to being what moss is, harrison is great (a lesser jerry rice) but he is no where, never has been, in moss's class. harrison can't change the game the way moss can. if nothing else, the height disadvantage is huge.

look at plaxico for the giants, he is an average to below average wr at best if it weren't for his height.

Yeah, height makes the difference (Matt Jones) :roll: I don't care what team you're a fan of, you've shown your own anti-Patriots bias before. Have you seen how open Harrison and Wayne gets? That's what's important. Harrison/Wayne aren't munchkins either. Brady has had to work with short AND slow receivers throughout his careers. Brady has shown he can play well with crap, mediocre, good, and elite receivers. Has Manning? No, he gets to develop chemistry to the fullest extent with the same group of receivers year in and year out. When Manning has to use retreads, then lets talk.

 

[Phokus]

Originally posted by: slsmnaz

Originally posted by: Phokus

Originally posted by: slsmnaz

Originally posted by: Phokus
Brady started flourishing under that as well. Brady has proven he can play well with ANY receivers. Has Manning proved that? HELL NO.

Has PM had a chance to prove that? If not then it doesn't matter what TB did

No he hasn't. However, several people have said that PM has proven he makes players better than they actually are... even though he gets to keep the same #1 and #2 receivers throughout the years!

If you want to see a QB making players around him look better than they are, just look at TB, he has proven it with countless receivers.

PM made Stokley look good.

He was a #3 receiver in that system... you think he'd get as much attention as Harrison/Wayne from the defenses? :roll:

 

[Phokus]

Originally posted by: Deeko
Reggie Wayne anyone? He's not a "waiver wire" receiver, since you love that term so much....but no way he's worthy of the pro bowl. How about Brandon Stokely, think anyone would know his name were it not for Manning? Uhhh, Kenton Keith sure looked good with Addai injured. What has Dominic Rhodes done this year? Manning makes everyone on his offense much, much better.

Give me a break dude, Most scouts say that Wayne would be a #1 receiver on most teams... Bill Polian has proven that his first priority is giving Peyton his weapons (as evidenced by the 1st round draft pick used on Wayne) :roll:

 

[Deeko]

Yes - and those scouts haven't seen him in the NFL without Peyton Manning throwing him the ball. If the fact that he was good in college and thus a 1st round pick automatically makes you a pro bowl receiver, then guys like Mike Williams, Charles Rogers, the entire Falcons and Jaguars receiving corps, Freddie Mitchell, Troy Williamson...should I go on?.....would all be pro bowlers and not busts.

Wayne is good, and probably WOULD be a #1 on a lot of teams. But he probably wouldn't be a pro bowler. How can we know, when we haven't seen him play without the best QB in the league throwing to him?

 

[PlatinumGold]

Originally posted by: Phokus

Originally posted by: PlatinumGold

Originally posted by: Phokus

Originally posted by: PlatinumGold


amazing how the pats are the greatest team ever and yet, the pats are this group of waiver wire players. :roll:


the arguement you have is, belicheck is >>>>> than tony dungy.

belicheck gets more out of players offense and defense than any other coach in history.

is it because he cheats, maybe, but give credit due where it is due, he is amazing.

that same logic applies, is brady really that good? or is he the product of a system? in mannings case he is the system. without manning the colts are a mediocre team at best. without brady, i think the pats would still be 5-1 at worst this season.

Without Brady you think the Patriots would be 5-1 AT WORST?! ROFL, ok you lost all credibility right there. Look what happened when Matt Cassele stepped in for Brady. They yanked him out in record time and put Brady back in record time because he stunk up the joint. Brady has never been a 'system' QB because the system has evolved so much and Brady has been successful in all of them. After Weiss left, they even started incorporating the Florida Gator's offensive system and Brady started flourishing under that as well. Brady has proven he can play well with ANY receivers. Has Manning proved that? HELL NO.

and you think you have any credibility with ANYONE on ATOT with regards to anything dealing with the pats? you are the biggest homer on the board.

i'm speaking much more non biased as i am not a fan of either team. i've been a falcons fan for 30 yrs and that isn't going to change now.

i didn't say that the pats would be anywhere near where they are as far as offensive scoring, i said they would win, mb not with their second string qb, but with a halfway decent qb, jeff garcia type.

plus, moss makes a qb's job much much easier. his combination of height, speed and hands makes him the best pure WR in the game ever, obviously jerry rice is the greatest wr of all time, but i'm talking just physical skills, moss has it over anyone that's played the game at his position. and no one the colts have ever had comes close to being what moss is, harrison is great (a lesser jerry rice) but he is no where, never has been, in moss's class. harrison can't change the game the way moss can. if nothing else, the height disadvantage is huge.

look at plaxico for the giants, he is an average to below average wr at best if it weren't for his height.

Yeah, height makes the difference (Matt Jones) :roll: I don't care what team you're a fan of, you've shown your own anti-Patriots bias before. Have you seen how open Harrison and Wayne gets? That's what's important. Harrison/Wayne aren't munchkins either. Brady has had to work with short AND slow receivers throughout his careers. Brady has shown he can play well with crap, mediocre, good, and elite receivers. Has Manning? No, he gets to develop chemistry to the fullest extent with the same group of receivers year in and year out. When Manning has to use retreads, then lets talk.

harrison and wayne are at best average height wr at 6'0".

and i don't see this "Have you seen how open Harrison and Wayne gets?" you are talking about either, i see pin point passess by manning.

thing is, with moss, he doesn't have to be open to be open and it doesn't have to be a pin point pass because he does have a 4" to 6" height advantage and probably a closer to 10" to 14" reach advantage when his arm length and vertical are taken into consideration.

my point is, in your attempt to make brady seem great i think you are seriously underestimating just how good randy moss really is. if you think either harrison or wayne or even the two combined is anywhere near randy moss in physical size and abilities, you have absolutely no credibility here at all.

 

[RapidSnail]

Originally posted by: Deeko
haha, no, they put brady back in because they have no sportsmanship. They wanted to scold the Dolphins for having the audacity to try to mount a comeback. Read Bill Simmons at all? He's pointed out that the Patriots have at least one needless, "Eff You" TD in every game. PS - he's a Patriots fan.

Are you serious? The Dolphins are the worst team New England has played thus far, and they still managed to put 28 points on the board. Matt Cassel goes in, and the second play from scrimmage he throws an interception returned for a TD by a DE. So now NFL teams are considered unsportsmanlike for winning by 3 TD's? If NE really wanted to be unsportsmanlike, Brady would have thrown for at least 8 TD's and 600 yards.

PS - I'm a Christian, and I worship Satan. Therefore, Satan is better than Jesus.

 

[PlatinumGold]

Originally posted by: Phokus
Yeah, height makes the difference (Matt Jones) :roll: I don't care what team you're a fan of, you've shown your own anti-Patriots bias before. Have you seen how open Harrison and Wayne gets? That's what's important. Harrison/Wayne aren't munchkins either. Brady has had to work with short AND slow receivers throughout his careers. Brady has shown he can play well with crap, mediocre, good, and elite receivers. Has Manning? No, he gets to develop chemistry to the fullest extent with the same group of receivers year in and year out. When Manning has to use retreads, then lets talk.

and i forgot, yeah, by anti patriots bias is why i bought my 11 yr old son a Brady jersey (he is a big time pats fan).

 

[Phokus]

Originally posted by: PlatinumGold

Originally posted by: Phokus
Yeah, height makes the difference (Matt Jones) :roll: I don't care what team you're a fan of, you've shown your own anti-Patriots bias before. Have you seen how open Harrison and Wayne gets? That's what's important. Harrison/Wayne aren't munchkins either. Brady has had to work with short AND slow receivers throughout his careers. Brady has shown he can play well with crap, mediocre, good, and elite receivers. Has Manning? No, he gets to develop chemistry to the fullest extent with the same group of receivers year in and year out. When Manning has to use retreads, then lets talk.

and i forgot, yeah, by anti patriots bias is why i bought my 11 yr old son a Brady jersey (he is a big time pats fan).

Because you would have to be a tremendous dick to deny your own son a Jersey of his favorite player?

 

[PlatinumGold]

Originally posted by: RapidSnail

Originally posted by: Deeko
haha, no, they put brady back in because they have no sportsmanship. They wanted to scold the Dolphins for having the audacity to try to mount a comeback. Read Bill Simmons at all? He's pointed out that the Patriots have at least one needless, "Eff You" TD in every game. PS - he's a Patriots fan.

Are you serious? The Dolphins are the worst team New England has played thus far, and they still managed to put 28 points on the board. Matt Cassel goes in, and the second play from scrimmage he throws an interception returned for a TD by a DE. So now NFL teams are considered unsportsmanlike for winning by 3 TD's? If NE really wanted to be unsportsmanlike, Brady would have thrown for at least 8 TD's and 600 yards.

PS - I'm a Christian, and I worship Satan. Therefore, Satan is better than Jesus.

no silly, it's not the margin of victory that determines if a team is rubbing it in or not, it's the time left in the game.

if there are less than 30 secs left in the game and you are up and you line up and throw for a TD, vs just taking the knee you are running up the score.

 

[Deeko]

Originally posted by: RapidSnail

Originally posted by: Deeko
haha, no, they put brady back in because they have no sportsmanship. They wanted to scold the Dolphins for having the audacity to try to mount a comeback. Read Bill Simmons at all? He's pointed out that the Patriots have at least one needless, "Eff You" TD in every game. PS - he's a Patriots fan.

Are you serious? The Dolphins are the worst team New England has played thus far, and they still managed to put 28 points on the board. Matt Cassel goes in, and the second play from scrimmage he throws an interception returned for a TD by a DE. So now NFL teams are considered unsportsmanlike for winning by 3 TD's? If NE really wanted to be unsportsmanlike, Brady would have thrown for at least 8 TD's and 600 yards.

PS - I'm a Christian, and I worship Satan. Therefore, Satan is better than Jesus.

Dude...I'm quoting a sportswriter who posts opinion-based articles who is openly a Patriots fan.

The Pats were in no danger of losing the game, despite the Dolphins pulling it to the "scary" differential of 42-21. You can't possibly say otherwise with a straight face.

 

[PlatinumGold]

Originally posted by: Phokus

Originally posted by: PlatinumGold

Originally posted by: Phokus
Yeah, height makes the difference (Matt Jones) :roll: I don't care what team you're a fan of, you've shown your own anti-Patriots bias before. Have you seen how open Harrison and Wayne gets? That's what's important. Harrison/Wayne aren't munchkins either. Brady has had to work with short AND slow receivers throughout his careers. Brady has shown he can play well with crap, mediocre, good, and elite receivers. Has Manning? No, he gets to develop chemistry to the fullest extent with the same group of receivers year in and year out. When Manning has to use retreads, then lets talk.

and i forgot, yeah, by anti patriots bias is why i bought my 11 yr old son a Brady jersey (he is a big time pats fan).

Because you would have to be a tremendous dick to deny your own son a Jersey of his favorite player?

mb, some parents would have required their kids to use their own money, i wouldn't call thos parents dicks, but only a pats fan would be arrogant enough to make judgements on how other people should raise their kids. :roll: