Boy, 14, Shot and Killed by Police Officer

[Amused]

Originally posted by: Atheus

Originally posted by: waggy
i have been in martial arts for most of my life. I can tell you a stick is far worse then a punch.

Come on man! A broomstick? It would break under hardly any pressure, way before you got real power in it.

You're a martial artist? Good. Can you break a stackof concrete tiles with your fist? Good, I thought so. With a brookstick? Doubt it.

Broomsticks are made with hardwoods. It was hard enough to give the cop a concussion.

How much harder does it need to be?

 

[Unheard]

Originally posted by: Atheus

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: Atheus

Originally posted by: Amused
Again, it's painfully obvious you've never had to face violence and have absilutely no idea what you're talking about.

Sticks and bats are considered dangerous weapons. People are beaten to death by sticks and bats every day.

I have experience in martial arts competition (low level) as well as street-fighting.

My statement was that a broom stick is about as dangerous as a punch and I stand by it. Ask a martial artist or anyone with the appropriate training. If other hand shapes than the classic punch are included then I would say hands are more lethal due to the possibility of pinpoint striking.

You do not shoot people who attack you with fists and sticks and things.

Amazing. Simply amazing.

You have limited experience in controlled, phony, staged fighting and think you know real violence?

A martial arts competition is not a staged fight, it is a real fight in which knockouts and broken bones are common. I have been in other fights too, but I don't see how it matters. Just think about it: a broom as about the weight of an arm right? about the thickness of a major bone? About as hard as a fist? Probably the bone is stronger in compression. They are pretty much the same thing and would cause similar damage.

In fact I have had a staff broken on my blocking arm before - not that bad really, just some bruising

You do realize you can swing a stick a lot faster than you can your arm? But I guess if what your telling is the truth, I will call up the MLB and tell them to stop using bats, your arm is just as effective!

 

[Nebor]

Originally posted by: Atheus

Originally posted by: waggy
i have been in martial arts for most of my life. I can tell you a stick is far worse then a punch.

Come on man! A broomstick? It would break under hardly any pressure, way before you got real power in it.

You're a martial artist? Good. Can you break a stackof concrete tiles with your fist? Good, I thought so. With a brookstick? Doubt it.

He hit the officer hard enough to cause a concussion, a life threatening injury. Then he had an extremely sharp, pointed weapon, and I promise you a broomstick isn't going to break when you stab someone with it. It's going to to stab right into them.

 

[Atheus]

Originally posted by: Nebor
You're an idiot. Fists are deadly weapons. Police officers and civilians are trained to shoot someone if their life is threatened by any means. That could be by someone's punch, a pointy stick, or an automobile.

Of course fists can be deadly, but really are only moderately dangerous if the person is untrained.

I have no idea what American cops are trained to do.

Someone who shoots a man who only wants a fist-fight is a coward.

 

[Unheard]

Originally posted by: Atheus

Originally posted by: Nebor
You're an idiot. Fists are deadly weapons. Police officers and civilians are trained to shoot someone if their life is threatened by any means. That could be by someone's punch, a pointy stick, or an automobile.

Of course fists can be deadly, but really are only moderately dangerous if the person is untrained.

I have no idea what American cops are trained to do.

Someone who shoots a man who only wants a fist-fight is a coward.

Now you are contridicting yourself, I thought sticks and fists were on equal level? Now fists are only good if you are trained? I guess I gotta be trained in broom handling to crack your skull open with one then?

 

[eits]

Originally posted by: classy
The officer had to protect himself, but this is just another example of poor policing. Why did the other officer leave before the situation was completely handled is beyond me. And the officer could have tried to subdue the kid with his nightstick as well. Police officers have to be able to do a better job or be better trained. Sad story though.

:clap;

night stick ftw. of course, he'd have to know how to use it... it's not like the guy goes through the police academy and whenever he dons the uniform, they hand him a night stick and say, "here you go, sport. you... uh.... beat people with this... just.... i dunno... do your best if you're in a situation, i guess. good luck out there, champ :thumbsup:."

 

[Nebor]

Originally posted by: Atheus

Originally posted by: Nebor
You're an idiot. Fists are deadly weapons. Police officers and civilians are trained to shoot someone if their life is threatened by any means. That could be by someone's punch, a pointy stick, or an automobile.

Of course fists can be deadly, but really are only moderately dangerous if the person is untrained.

I have no idea what American cops are trained to do.

Someone who shoots a man who only wants a fist-fight is a coward.

Someone who engages in a fist fight with me without my consent is a dead man. I've shot someone who tried to rob me without a weapon at an ATM, and I shot a man on my back porch who was reaching for (what turned out to be) a screwdriver in his pocket. Neither of them were heavily armed, but they were both a very real threat to my life, and I didn't even visit the police station regarding either event.

You never know how dangerous someone might be, so if someone attacks you, you shoot first, and ask questions later.

 

[Amused]

Originally posted by: Atheus

Originally posted by: Nebor
You're an idiot. Fists are deadly weapons. Police officers and civilians are trained to shoot someone if their life is threatened by any means. That could be by someone's punch, a pointy stick, or an automobile.

Of course fists can be deadly, but really are only moderately dangerous if the person is untrained.

I have no idea what American cops are trained to do.

Someone who shoots a man who only wants a fist-fight is a coward.

And what if the man fist fighting you had every intent to kill you? What if you're losing the fight and the man is trying to get your gun?

You sure are tough in the internet, but this is real life.

Cops are taught to subdue. If they are unable to quickly subdue the suspect, they are trained to back off so the suspect cannot get the cop's sidearm. At this point, if the suspect is still a danger to the cop or others, the cop can use any weapons necessary to stop the suspect.

 

[Unheard]

Originally posted by: Nebor

Originally posted by: Atheus

Originally posted by: Nebor
You're an idiot. Fists are deadly weapons. Police officers and civilians are trained to shoot someone if their life is threatened by any means. That could be by someone's punch, a pointy stick, or an automobile.

Of course fists can be deadly, but really are only moderately dangerous if the person is untrained.

I have no idea what American cops are trained to do.

Someone who shoots a man who only wants a fist-fight is a coward.

Someone who engages in a fist fight with me without my consent is a dead man. I've shot someone who tried to rob me without a weapon at an ATM, and I shot a man on my back porch who was reaching for (what turned out to be) a screwdriver in his pocket. Neither of them were heavily armed, but they were both a very real threat to my life, and I didn't even visit the police station regarding either event.

You never know how dangerous someone might be, so if someone attacks you, you shoot first, and ask questions later.

I need to move to TX.

 

[waggy]

Originally posted by: Atheus

Originally posted by: Nebor
You're an idiot. Fists are deadly weapons. Police officers and civilians are trained to shoot someone if their life is threatened by any means. That could be by someone's punch, a pointy stick, or an automobile.

Of course fists can be deadly, but really are only moderately dangerous if the person is untrained.

I have no idea what American cops are trained to do.

Someone who shoots a man who only wants a fist-fight is a coward.

moderately dangerous? uh no. a untrained person can still kill another with 1 hit.

also this was a fist-fight. this was a kid that had a deadly weapn (even in untrained hands). he hit the cop over the head and attacked again with a spear type weapon.

 

[Atheus]

Originally posted by: Unheard
Now you are contridicting yourself

Don't think so...

I thought sticks and fists were on equal level?

That is my assertion.

Now fists are only good if you are trained? I guess I gotta be trained in broom handling to crack your skull open with one then?

Both fists and sticks (staff/spear) become more effective with training. Both are only moderately dangerous compared to a gun.

An untrained boy with a stick does not deserve to be shot.

 

[mobobuff]

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: mobobuff
Uhh... self defense? It was a broken broom handle for crying out loud, couldn't have been more than 4 feet long. He was in someone else's house, houses have exits. Either the cop scares easily and wasn't properly trained to disarm someone, or wasn't thinking clearly from the thwap on the head. From what I've heard, I can't see where firing a weapon was justified.

Hey, how about a test? We'll enter a house I am familiar with, and you are not. I'll proceed to beat you with a stick and see if you can get away.

I'll bet you a months pay I win... if you live.

Yeah, but in your test the abuser (you) is bigger than the abusee (me). The actual story is the inverse of that. The kid was 14, and while I know that a psycho kid on adrenaline can be a scary thing, it doesn't take much to wrench a small broom handle from someone when you have the size advantage. Also, you don't need the blueprints to a house to leave it, especially when you've already entered it. You know where one exit is.

It's easy to side with the cop, he has a tough job and was being beaten with a stick by a little sh*t of a teenager. But firing his weapon so quickly... I don't know if I can follow him there. If he was disoriented from the hit to the head, then I can understand. It sounds likely, if he had a concussion. But I can't see a clearheaded decision to fire being justifiable in the circumstances as we know it.

 

[Unheard]

Originally posted by: Atheus

Originally posted by: Unheard
Now you are contridicting yourself

Don't think so...

I thought sticks and fists were on equal level?

That is my assertion.

Now fists are only good if you are trained? I guess I gotta be trained in broom handling to crack your skull open with one then?

Both fists and sticks (staff/spear) become more effective with training. Both are only moderately dangerous compared to a gun.

An untrained boy with a stick does not deserve to be shot.

Would you not agree an untrained person can inflict more damage with a stick (and at greater distances) than with his fist?

 

[tyler811]

 

[Atheus]

Originally posted by: waggy
moderately dangerous? uh no. a untrained person can still kill another with 1 hit.

Sure, with a lucky shot. Or a continuous beating will do it. Same with the stick.

I guess if it happens to break cleanly in a spear type shape it becomes more deadly, but nowhere near a gun.

also this was a fist-fight. this was a kid that had a deadly weapn (even in untrained hands). he hit the cop over the head and attacked again with a spear type weapon.

It just seems a cowardly reation to me. I guess it's because when I was growing up people hit eachother with sticks and bottles quite regularly, but no-one was ever shot. No one was ever killed. The one seems normal to me while the other seems very over the top.

 

[eits]

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: eits

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: mobobuff
Uhh... self defense? It was a broken broom handle for crying out loud, couldn't have been more than 4 feet long. He was in someone else's house, houses have exits. Either the cop scares easily and wasn't properly trained to disarm someone, or wasn't thinking clearly from the thwap on the head. From what I've heard, I can't see where firing a weapon was justified.

Hey, how about a test? We'll enter a house I am familiar with, and you are not. I'll proceed to beat you with a stick and see if you can get away.

I'll bet you a months pay I win... if you live.

you're bigger than he is (and pretty much 99% of atot). that wouldn't be a fair fight whatsoever. have a 14 year old hit him with a stick instead.

OK, I'll find a large, football playing 14 year old. I know quite a few in the gym that are almost as big as me.

Oh, if that's the case can I hype the kid up on PCP first?

the kid wasn't hyped up on pcp... if he was, it would have been obvious to the cops as soon as they walked in the door.

 

[Amused]

Originally posted by: mobobuff

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: mobobuff
Uhh... self defense? It was a broken broom handle for crying out loud, couldn't have been more than 4 feet long. He was in someone else's house, houses have exits. Either the cop scares easily and wasn't properly trained to disarm someone, or wasn't thinking clearly from the thwap on the head. From what I've heard, I can't see where firing a weapon was justified.

Hey, how about a test? We'll enter a house I am familiar with, and you are not. I'll proceed to beat you with a stick and see if you can get away.

I'll bet you a months pay I win... if you live.

Yeah, but in your test the abuser (you) is bigger than the abusee (me). The actual story is the inverse of that. The kid was 14, and while I know that a psycho kid on adrenaline can be a scary thing, it doesn't take much to wrench a small broom handle from someone when you have the size advantage. Also, you don't need the blueprints to a house to leave it, especially when you've already entered it. You know where one exit is.

It's easy to side with the cop, he has a tough job and was being beaten with a stick by a little sh*t of a teenager. But firing his weapon so quickly... I don't know if I can follow him there. If he was disoriented from the hit to the head, then I can understand. It sounds likely, if he had a concussion. But I can't see a clearheaded decision to fire being justifiable in the circumstances as we know it.

As has been pointed out quite often in this thread, there are many 14 year olds who are nearly as big as me.

The only picture of the boy (released by the lying mother) is 3-4 years old. He's obviously been playing football and is considerably bigger now. It could very well be that the boy was bigger than the cop.

Plus, after repeated tries to stop the boy with mace, I doubt the cop had much of a chance.

 

[waggy]

Originally posted by: mobobuff

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: mobobuff
Uhh... self defense? It was a broken broom handle for crying out loud, couldn't have been more than 4 feet long. He was in someone else's house, houses have exits. Either the cop scares easily and wasn't properly trained to disarm someone, or wasn't thinking clearly from the thwap on the head. From what I've heard, I can't see where firing a weapon was justified.

Hey, how about a test? We'll enter a house I am familiar with, and you are not. I'll proceed to beat you with a stick and see if you can get away.

I'll bet you a months pay I win... if you live.

Yeah, but in your test the abuser (you) is bigger than the abusee (me). The actual story is the inverse of that. The kid was 14, and while I know that a psycho kid on adrenaline can be a scary thing, it doesn't take much to wrench a small broom handle from someone when you have the size advantage. Also, you don't need the blueprints to a house to leave it, especially when you've already entered it. You know where one exit is.

It's easy to side with the cop, he has a tough job and was being beaten with a stick by a little sh*t of a teenager. But firing his weapon so quickly... I don't know if I can follow him there. If he was disoriented from the hit to the head, then I can understand. It sounds likely, if he had a concussion. But I can't see a clearheaded decision to fire being justifiable in the circumstances as we know it.

read TFA.
"Mitter, a one-year veteran who recently concluded his probationary period, was treated for a concussion and lacerations at a local hospital and released. "

so he was already hit over the head. suffering a concussion and getting attacked by a 14 yr old kid with a spear.

also 14yr old boys are still pretty large. most are strong enough to kill a person with a broom handle or spear.

 

[PrinceofWands]

Originally posted by: Atheus
Damn coward pig can't fight a little boy with a stick, so he shoots him? WTF? The cop was in _his_ house! He was only defending it, I would defend my house and family too, regardless of a faceful of mace and a meaningless badge.

but in a major city where there's plenty of crime daily, cops go through pretty extensive training.

I used to do a lot of martial arts, and I've seen cop training, it's very limited. He should have run away and called for backup if he couldn't disarm the kid. No-one would have gotten hurt.

Nope. He should have done EXACTLY what he did. It's not only the law, it's the moral thing to do. Do NOT try to kill someone and you're much less likely to be shot by the police. Try to kill someone and you will die.

 

[eits]

i'm hungry.

 

[PinmasterJay]

I'm still as to why this is even being debated

 

[waggy]

Originally posted by: eits
i'm hungry.

i got hamburgers and bratwurst getting ready on the grill if you want to come over?

 

[PrinceofWands]

Originally posted by: Atheus
Listen flamers, I don't the deny the boy is a bad egg, I am meerly saying he is a _boy_ not a man. He is not even legally responsible for his actions, regardless of mental illness, which he supposedly had a history of.

A broomstick is not a lethal weapon, or no more than fists and feet. The cop had time to spray him repeatedly with mace, then aim and fire an accurate shot - he had time to run away.

There is no reason for this kid to die.

BS you ignorant fvcktard.

I would be happy to come at you with a broken broom handle and see if I can kill you. In fact, I'll pay you $1000 if you let me deomonstrate on you how lethal a broken broom handle can be.

It takes about 2 seconds to pull the mace and douse him, which is a legal response to a non-cooperative suspect in this situation. It takes less than a second to pull a gun and fire (there is no aim time in combat) and it seems likely that during this action he was still under attack. If you turn to flee you expose vulnerable areas to attack which can prove lethal. Meanwhile the officer has responded to an assault, which means if he leaves the assault victim is open to further harm.

Everything you've said is 100% wrong, both legally and morally.

 

[Amused]

Originally posted by: waggy

Originally posted by: eits
i'm hungry.

i got hamburgers and bratwurst getting ready on the grill if you want to come over?

Dammit! You're like 3 hours away.

 

[waggy]

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: waggy

Originally posted by: eits
i'm hungry.

i got hamburgers and bratwurst getting ready on the grill if you want to come over?

Dammit! You're like 3 hours away.

well they might be a little crisp by then..