Born the wrong species

[boomerang]

Conflating this with transgendered people is quite a stretch.

Who in this thread did that and why are you including it in a response to me?

 

[buckshot24]

Mods:

Here's a forum member, Buckshot24, who unambiguously wrote that "Tolerence is great and all but some things you shouldn't tolerate."

When asked who decides what shouldn't be tolerated, and what it would mean to "not tolerate" someone, Buckshot24 refused to tell us and tried to change the subject. Cerpin Text asked Buckshot24 what "not tolerating" someone would entail; Buckshot24 did not respond. I again asked Buckshot24 this question, and he again refused to tell us and is again trying to change the subject.

I think this provocative and evasive behavior is trolling, and should be grounds for a short-term ban. But I'll give Buckshot24 one more chance:

For the fourth time we ask you: Who determines what "shouldn't be tolerated; and what are you advocating should be done when society is confronted by someone who is doing "some things you shouldn't tolerate?"

Cerpin is on my ignore list FYI, where it will remain. I don't see anything it says unless somebody quotes it.

You've completely blown my comment out of proportion. Tolerance is fine and dandy but that doesn't mean everything should be tolerated. That is the extent of my comment and you've turned it into me wanting to lock up a person who thinks they are a cat. Nonsense.

And why are you making an appeal to the mods publically? There is a report post function for that.

To me, not tolerating mental illness and recognizing it as such is the correct way to go. I wouldn't pet this lady on the head and encourage her delusion. I wouldn't put her in a gulag either or lock her up. You created that whole narrative in your genetic mistake riddled brain.

 

[Jaskalas]

To me, not tolerating mental illness and recognizing it as such is the correct way to go. I wouldn't pet this lady on the head and encourage her delusion. I wouldn't put her in a gulag either or lock her up. You created that whole narrative in your genetic mistake riddled brain.

Not tolerate as in... not accommodate?
The subject really does parallel a real social / political issue.

 

[buckshot24]

It's good that you and she both recognize that as she did state she sees a psychologist. I don't see the delusion. She feels like she has heightened senses and communicate with a friend in meow speak. What she didn't say is that she was born a kitten... her mom was a Siamese and her dad an Alley cat... She knows who she is and what she is. If a little fantasy, which happens to give someone a little comfort without harming others, is cause for "intervention" then every man I've ever met qualifies!

Conflating this with transgendered people is quite a stretch.

She thinks she was born in the wrong species. That is delusional. She claims to have night vision, do you think she has night vision?

 

[buckshot24]

Not tolerate as in... not accommodate?

Not tolerate as in not recognize as a valid choice. People aren't cats.

The subject really does parallel a real social / political issue.

Which one is that?

 

[chipwitch]

Who in this thread did that and why are you including it in a response to me?

Sorry, I didn't mean for it to sound like it was directed at you. It has been
intimated, Herr Kutz in #63 for one and some have suggested it's whats behind the opposition to the cat woman in the first place. It was merely directed at the general discussion.

 

[buckshot24]

Sorry, I didn't mean for it to sound like it was directed at you. It has been
intimated, Herr Kutz in #63 for one and some have suggested it's whats behind the opposition to the cat woman in the first place. It was merely directed at the general discussion.

Is Bruce Jenner a man or a woman? If we lined up all the evidence for both positions which one would come out on top? Is it intolerant to be objective about this?

 

[Shaun_Brannen]

Is Bruce Jenner a man or a woman? If we lined up all the evidence for both positions which one would come out on top? Is it intolerant to be objective about this?

Bruce/Caitlyn Jenner is a terrible human being, regardless of his/her gender. It's a shame that, out of anybody that gets blown up out of proportion to be a public idol for transgender people, they chose her.

Our celebrities are even worse than our politicians. It's disgusting.

 

[chipwitch]

She thinks she was born in the wrong species. That is delusional. She claims to have night vision, do you think she has night vision?

Whether she thinks she has night vision or not, can you prove she doesn't? Why do you care so much? For one to imagine one feels like a cat, and claiming to actually be a cat is what separates sanity from mentally illness. You never studied philosophy did you? Look into solipsism. Then consider how god-like one would have to be to truly know what the hell anyone else thinks feels or perceives. The arrogance required to think one knows absolutely what another person feels inside is more a mark of insanity in MY book. Anyone who believes in a magical immortal sorcerer floating in the sky (whether or not you do) who created the universe seems far more delusional to me than a woman saying she feel like she is a cat BORN in the wrong species. Geesh, she acknowledges she's human. Think about how many people in the world believe in that magical sorcerer... the majority of people in the world are then DELUSIONAL because THEY believe it ABSOLUTELY! The best answer I've ever heard from a god-botherer is that they know he exists because they "feel his presence." How is a woman feeling like she has cat attributes any more difficult for you to swallow than that? Never heard anyone killing in the name of "kitty," but I can't same the same is true of god-people.

Maybe the desire to NOT be human is greater than the desire to BE something else. Meh, who knows, maybe that's why she feels like a cat... because there's little reason to WANT to be human given their propensity (generally speaking) for violence, hatred and a desire to harm others. It's certainly one way I could understand it.

 

[chipwitch]

Is Bruce Jenner a man or a woman? If we lined up all the evidence for both positions which one would come out on top? Is it intolerant to be objective about this?

Why does it matter? Why consume more than 10 seconds even considering it? Don't you have more productive things to do with your time? No one, not even Katelyn (that IS her NAME, by the way since FACTS matter to you so much) denies she has xy chromosomes. She would agree with ALL the things you PERCEIVE about her, yet you're unwilling to agree with her about the one thing that ONLY SHE can PERCEIVE. There is absolutely nothing wrong with being objective (though there are really GREAT arguments that there's no such thing as objectivity). But, if Katelyn feels like she has more feminine qualities and wishes to express that, then again, why does it matter? And don't give me the bathroom argument. She's going in to pee... not masturbate or get in a little peekeeloo.

Nobody here is saying the OP woman is a cat. But some of us ARE saying that they understand if she feels like a cat. Okay... cool. There are 7 billion people on the planet. I'm glad they aren't all the same. If they were, they might all be like YOU! Or worse... like KATELYN JENNER! WoooOOOooooOo... very scary. So relax, is my advice. Neither Katelyn or a woman in Norway who likes to dress up for holloween every day is going to impact your life... except maybe to add a little color to it.

 

[buckshot24]

Whether she thinks she has night vision or not, can you prove she doesn't?

Can I prove she doesn't have night vision? How about some evidence that she does instead? If I claim to be able to fly to the moon when nobody is watching it isn't up to the people who doesn't believe me to prove I can't do it.

Why do you care so much?

I really don't.

For one to imagine one feels like a cat, and claiming to actually be a cat is what separates sanity from mentally illness. You never studied philosophy did you? Look into solipsism. Then consider how god-like one would have to be to truly know what the hell anyone else thinks feels or perceives.

I'm not talking about how she feels I'm listening to her claims and she says she was born in the wrong species and that she thinks she has night vision and can hear better than people. This has nothing to do with how she feels.

The arrogance required to think one knows absolutely what another person feels inside is more a mark of insanity in MY book.

I'm not sure why you're going on about feelings. I don't think I've made any comment about how she feels.

Anyone who believes in a magical immortal sorcerer floating in the sky (whether or not you do) who created the universe seems far more delusional to me than a woman saying she feel like she is a cat BORN in the wrong species.

So you do agree that we can recognize delusion. Great.

Geesh, she acknowledges she's human.

But with night vision and enhanced hearing.

Think about how many people in the world believe in that magical sorcerer...

Theists don't believe in magic nor a magical sorcerer. Designing things isn't magic.

We have a few claims this person has made.

1. She has night vision.
2. She has enhanced hearing.

These are claims about reality, if they are false and she believes them anyway then she is delusional. Your God red herring have nothing to do with her claims being delusional or not.

 

[Subyman]

Wow guys, this tabloid trash really has everyone worked up.

 

[buckshot24]

Why does it matter? Why consume more than 10 seconds even considering it?

I couldn't care less about what Bruce decides to do I care how society is reacting to his decision.

No one, not even Katelyn (that IS her NAME, by the way since FACTS matter to you so much) denies she has xy chromosomes.

Sorry, I can't recognize his delusion. Is it objectively true that Bruce has xy chromosomes?

She would agree with ALL the things you PERCEIVE about her, yet you're unwilling to agree with her about the one thing that ONLY SHE can PERCEIVE.

Haha, if only he can perceive it isn't that a good sign that there is a delusion involved?

There is absolutely nothing wrong with being objective

Just not when there are feelings involved?

(though there are really GREAT arguments that there's no such thing as objectivity).

Which make objective claims while doing so!

But, if Katelyn feels like she has more feminine qualities and wishes to express that, then again, why does it matter?

If I feel I have more cactus like qualities then I'm wrong. Bruce is wrong, he is a man. Embracing his delusion doesn't help him.

Nobody here is saying the OP woman is a cat. But some of us ARE saying that they understand if she feels like a cat. Okay... cool. There are 7 billion people on the planet. I'm glad they aren't all the same. If they were, they might all be like YOU! Or worse... like KATELYN JENNER!

Everybody I know who doesn't "feel" like a cat are different than I am and anybody else on the planet. You don't need to think you're a pine tree to be different.

 

[chipwitch]

Can I prove she doesn't have night vision? How about some evidence that she does instead? If I claim to be able to fly to the moon when nobody is watching it isn't up to the people who doesn't believe me to prove I can't do it.

So, she made a claim. So you're upset about truth in advertising? Ever listen to a politician? Or a ministers? Or your mom tell you about Santa Clause? If you're demanding that she back up her claims with evidence, when said claim has no impact on your life or anyone you know, then you've set a ridiculously high bar that I'm sure not even YOU could achieve.

I'm not talking about how she feels...

That is painfully clear. You're more upset that what she claims doesn't fit your world view. Your world view comes before the feelings of others. I understand.

I'm not sure why you're going on about feelings.

I'm not sure why you're so quick to disregard them.

So you do agree that we can recognize delusion. Great.

I have no doubt we can both label things delusional. The problem arises when we are required to agree on to what the labels belong. Your definition will likely be different than mine because you have a different definition. What we label delusional is subjective, as with almost everything!

Theists don't believe in magic nor a magical sorcerer. Designing things isn't magic.

It isn't that designing things is magical... it's the claim (evidence please, since it's crucial to your world view) that something exists that did the designing (and construction and monitoring).

We have a few claims this person has made.

1. She has night vision.
2. She has enhanced hearing.

These are claims about reality, if they are false and she believes them anyway then she is delusional.

No, they are claims about what she perceives. I often perceive things that are false (I'm not so arrogant to believe I perceive all things precisely nor that others can't perceive things I can't!), but that doesn't make one delusional. That makes one mistaken.

Your God red herring have nothing to do with her claims being delusional or not.

How dare you call it a red herring! YOU bring up delusion and want to make it an issue. Ok, I point out to you the most grandiose example of mass delusion to have ever existed, that is irrationally tolerated by otherwise rational people who don't share the delusion. It is the mountain to the mole hill. One is responsible for the deaths of thousands... the other... well, she wears a stuffed tail. Don't like mountain/mole hill? Try Beam/mote (I really hope the irony isn't lost on you).

Whether or not she is delusional is irrelevant. I'll highly improbably our paths will ever cross. However, my path crosses with countless others daily who are equally enamored with the perception of something for which they're unable to provide evidence. Some even come to my residence pushing WatchTower. So, even though I don't believe their perception is accurate, I allow for the possibility that I could be wrong. I treat them with respect. And go on with my day. Is that so bad?

 

[waffleironhead]

Wow guys, this tabloid trash really has everyone worked up.

Won't someone think of the kittens?

 

[shortylickens]

If I was a girl, I'd probably tease. I'd be the worlds worst tease. Other girls would hate me. And I would laugh.

Also, I'd probably whine about the income gap. And my period.

 

[chipwitch]

Wow guys, this tabloid trash really has everyone worked up.

Nah... it's not the tabloid trash that has me worked up, it's the disrespect others insist on showing to their fellow human beings. It's all good

 

[MagnusTheBrewer]

Won't someone think of the kittens?

Regular or transpecied?

 

[shortylickens]

Regular or transpecied?

 

[MongGrel]

Wow guys, this tabloid trash really has everyone worked up.

Apparently.

Some people like a reason to rant for no reason in circles, of course.

I care less if she thinks she is a cat.

 

[Moonbeam]

Apparently.

Some people like a reason to rant for no reason in circles, of course.

I care less if she thinks she is a cat.

But what about if she were PERFECT.

 

[Jaskalas]

Not tolerate as in not recognize as a valid choice. People aren't cats.

And males are not females and vise versa.

 

[MongGrel]

But what about if she were PERFECT.

Many of the more interesting women are pretty catlike to begin with, of course.

()

 

[chipwitch]

I couldn't care less about what Bruce decides to do I care how society is reacting to his decision.

How society is reacting? By my observation, most of society is supportive and not too concerned with it. Aren't you just talking about your little closed circle of friends

Just not when there are feelings involved?

It's a matter of priority. I have a high regard for objectivity, arguable a thing subjective though... I just don't put it above people. Some people don't care how they hurt other people. I'm not one of those. See, there's one difference between us.

You don't need to think you're a pine tree to be different.

And, have you ever met someone like that? You really are attached to your little black and white world, are't you?

 

[chipwitch]

And males are not females and vise versa.

I don't think they're saying they are... not physically. What they're saying is that what they feel doesn't match their body. I'm pretty sure that is a concept that would be completely foreign to everyone but the individual who experiences it first hand.

First, all you have do is accept that this person feels it or believes it. Who is so arrogant to stand and call bullshit on what another person feels? I'll bet everyone in this thread has known someone (if not themselves) that claims to have seen ghosts, heard the voice of god, had a dream that foretold the future or some such thing. I'm just curious, how many of you would give them the benefit of the doubt? How many would want them committed or to seek counseling? Those who are worried about what's becoming of society can start by respecting others, instead of making pariahs of them. That's how we make a cohesive society again. Not by tearing people down because they don't fit into some myopic view of the world.

<edit> Sorry, forgot to finish....

If you can make that small leap... accept the notion that someone may perceive something that YOU don't, then the question isn't whether or not a man is a woman (or vice versa), the question is what do you do about it? Textbooks don't need to be changed to say that a woman is a cat or a woman is a man... it's about showing a little respect to the individual and showing some measure of adapting. You don't have to believe it. Just give people the benefit of the doubt as long as they're not hurting anyone. I still don't believe in ghosts or god. I don't throw stones at those who do.