Boehner walks from White House debt talks

[MooseNSquirrel]

Why didn't the Democrats do that when they had complete control then?

Why did they cave in last fall when they still had control as well?

Here is a hint: Democrats are only for tax increases when they can get Republicans to vote for them too. Otherwise they won't raise taxes either.

That credit card bill Republicans ran up for 8-30 years is due...and now you can't support paying for it?

This is the fallacy of partisanship at any cost. No matter what errors your side made, never ever admit you made a mistake and always try and make the other guy appear to be worse.

Its time to pay for your Medical Drug Benefit plan ProfJohn. Its time to pay for Iraq. Its time to pay for that capital gains tax cut etc etc etc etc.

If one's side pet programs can be put under the knife, than surely the otehr side can find it in their Patriotic Christian hearts to do their share too.

 

[MooseNSquirrel]

Most people seem to be rather impressed with the way the GOP is handling themselves by not budging until they receive moderate concessions. It's just like in the Clinton after '96 days, spending got reigned in. That's what most of the polls on CNN are showing at least. Democrats need to lay off the partisan stuff a bit, Republicans doing pretty well.

Actually....no. The majority of Americans support a combination of spending cuts and revenue increases, which is exactly what the President is pushing for.

Actually, the American public (as usual) has no frigging clue what they are asking for.

Read the damn poll, not what your favourite brain dead political commentator is trying to sell you.

http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2011/images/03/31/rel4m.pdf

Here is a nugget, just using Medicare as an example:

Increased: 48%
Kept the same: 39%
Decreased a little: 10%
Decreased a lot: 4%
Eliminated: 0%

Good luck have fun!

 

[MomentsofSanity]

Most people seem to be rather impressed with the way the GOP is handling themselves by not budging until they receive moderate concessions. It's just like in the Clinton after '96 days, spending got reigned in. That's what most of the polls on CNN are showing at least. Democrats need to lay off the partisan stuff a bit, Republicans doing pretty well.

Was this statement not meant to be taken as factual? The poll you cite paints the GOP as uncooperative, uncompromising and negotiating in bad faith whose policies would move the country in the wrong direction... But spin away.

 

[ProfJohn]

Liar.

Prove it!

Link us to the Democrat proposal with specific facts and figures for what will be cut and what taxes will be raised.

 

[ProfJohn]

No, the Dems put trillions in cuts on the table. The Republicans were kicking ass and taking names but they wanted to win by even more so they walked away from what would have been their greatest partisan victory in years.

Cuts in WHAT??

They threw out some figures, nothing more. No one knows how they plan to come up with $3.5 trillion in cuts or whatever the figure.

 

[Throckmorton]

Most people seem to be rather impressed with the way the GOP is handling themselves by not budging until they receive moderate concessions. It's just like in the Clinton after '96 days, spending got reigned in. That's what most of the polls on CNN are showing at least. Democrats need to lay off the partisan stuff a bit, Republicans doing pretty well.

They've gotten HUGE concessions already... Where do you get your news?? Fox?

 

[MooseNSquirrel]

Prove it!

Link us to the Democrat proposal with specific facts and figures for what will be cut and what taxes will be raised.

Since when do you start requiring hard evidence?

Here you go: http://lmgtfy.com/?q=obama+spending+cuts+proposal

 

[dmcowen674]

That credit card bill Republicans ran up for 8-30 years is due...and now you can't support paying for it?

This is the fallacy of partisanship at any cost. No matter what errors your side made, never ever admit you made a mistake and always try and make the other guy appear to be worse.

Its time to pay for your Medical Drug Benefit plan ProfJohn. Its time to pay for Iraq. Its time to pay for that capital gains tax cut etc etc etc etc.

If one's side pet programs can be put under the knife, than surely the other side can find it in their Patriotic Christian hearts to do their share too.

The best part of all of this is the history books showing how the Republicans destroyed a once great country.

Still sucks to look back at what they did and still doing but history always tells the truth.

How's that WMD in Iraq working for ya PJ?

The lies never go away.

 

[Carmen813]

That's an excellent point. These discussions need to be held live on CSPAN, so that we can all see who is offering up what and who is being disingenuous. All we can do now is to mindlessly support the side we like the most, or rather, fear the least. There should be an official running tally on the Internet of each side's specific current proposals. If nothing else, it would keep us all honest.

Start here:
What programs are they talking about cutting?
What is the largest voting block in the country?

That is why these negotiations occur in private. You can't ask people to run for election and create policy at the same time, and that's what happens when negotiations occur in public. Politicians need political cover to do their jobs. There are too many special interests and media whores who will manipulate every word they say. We don't have to like it, but that's the way it is.

 

[Carmen813]

Cuts in WHAT??

They threw out some figures, nothing more. No one knows how they plan to come up with $3.5 trillion in cuts or whatever the figure.

Democrats offered to cut the big three entitlements and reform them to make less people eligible. They offered to substantially lower income tax rates in exchange for eliminating loopholes and special deductions, the net result of which would have been lower taxes for most middle class families and a streamlined tax code for businesses. They offered cuts to every domestic agency and modest cuts to the military budget (which really needs some trimming).

 

[Carmen813]

40 senators can stop almost anything in the Senate.

Actually, unless the rules have changed and depending on what it is one senator can put just about anything on hold indefinitely.

 

[her209]

Most people seem to be rather impressed with the way the GOP is handling themselves by not budging until they receive moderate concessions. It's just like in the Clinton after '96 days, spending got reigned in. That's what most of the polls on CNN are showing at least. Democrats need to lay off the partisan stuff a bit, Republicans doing pretty well.

LOL... do you really believe that? That's just sad.

 

[Engineer]

Most people seem to be rather impressed with the way the GOP is handling themselves by not budging until they receive moderate concessions. It's just like in the Clinton after '96 days, spending got reigned in. That's what most of the polls on CNN are showing at least. Democrats need to lay off the partisan stuff a bit, Republicans doing pretty well.

CNN Poll


Actual PDF of poll...


:hmm:

 

[Double Trouble]

There is a good chance that even if Obama wins in 2012 he could be looking at a Republican control house AND Senate.

This would actually be the greatest blessing of them all for the American people. Blessed gridlock. The partisan bickering would prevent all but the most critical legislation to get through, and neither the president nor congress could push stupid partisan ideas through. Win for all.

 

[trenchfoot]

Start here:
What programs are they talking about cutting?
What is the largest voting block in the country?

That is why these negotiations occur in private. You can't ask people to run for election and create policy at the same time, and that's what happens when negotiations occur in public. Politicians need political cover to do their jobs. There are too many special interests and media whores who will manipulate every word they say. We don't have to like it, but that's the way it is.

Absolutely correct. I've been in too many contract negotiations where, depending on what the agenda is of the various editors of the news media, all manner of spin is put on TENTATIVE ongoing negotiations that can change at the whim and mood of the negotiators.

Prepared statements that correctly and definitively address the status of very fluid ongoing negotiations are about the only way the public can get an accurate assessment of what's actually going on.

Of course, all is lost to the public when those prepared statements are actually statements of posture and pose without any substance, as we've all been witness to as of late.

 

[trenchfoot]

This would actually be the greatest blessing of them all for the American people. Blessed gridlock. The partisan bickering would prevent all but the most critical legislation to get through, and neither the president nor congress could push stupid partisan ideas through. Win for all.

From what I've witnessed so far though, is that there's a big difference results-wise between a Repub holding the White House with a Dem controlled Congress vs. a Dem sitting up top with a Repub held Congress.

 

[umbrella39]

CNN Poll


Actual PDF of poll...


:hmm:

Hmm indeed... polls conducted in ones mind usually have a slant.

 

[Engineer]

Hmm indeed... polls conducted in ones mind usually have a slant.

ABC News Poll

CBS News

Politico

Republicans doing pretty well indeed.

 

[Jhhnn]

This would actually be the greatest blessing of them all for the American people. Blessed gridlock. The partisan bickering would prevent all but the most critical legislation to get through, and neither the president nor congress could push stupid partisan ideas through. Win for all.

Heh. Too bad Repubs didn't think of that before they instituted medicare part D, went to war, cut taxes to the bone simultaneously, cheered on the bankstas as they ran up the credit bubble of the ownership society, then bailed them out even as they demand austerity for the rest of the population...

Just when they have things pretty much the way they want them, the way that's of maximum benefit to the true Bush constituency, some damned fools want to change it, huh?

 

[senseamp]

If you like blessed gridlock, you are going to love blessed default and blessed government shutdown.

 

[trenchfoot]

If you like blessed gridlock, you are going to love blessed default and blessed government shutdown.

Graciously brought to you by the new reactionist arm of the republican party.....the most feared.....the most well-armed.....the most loudest.....the most belligerent.....the most intransigent.....the most alarmist ideologue infested......the party of Palin and Bachmann.....your favorite and mine.....let's hear it for the Tea Party!!!!!.............*crickets*

 

[werepossum]

Start here:
What programs are they talking about cutting?
What is the largest voting block in the country?

That is why these negotiations occur in private. You can't ask people to run for election and create policy at the same time, and that's what happens when negotiations occur in public. Politicians need political cover to do their jobs. There are too many special interests and media whores who will manipulate every word they say. We don't have to like it, but that's the way it is.

Certainly I can ask people to run for office and create policy at the same time.

Politicians having political cover is exactly why we're in this mess now. What we need is the cleansing of sunlight on the process. We need to be able to see that what politicians are DOING matches what they are SAYING. Right now the two appear to be nodding acquaintances at best.

 

[EagleKeeper]

It's very simple: raise the debt ceiling to pay our bills. No deal, bundle, hostage taking.

Obama and the Democrats have supported that all along.

And then when does the government get serious about paying the bills?

They have not previously. :thumbsdown:

Until it is backed into a corner, nothing is done. They are so used to passing the issue down stream until later.

Now, the Republicans have decided to stop that action. While it may be for political reasons, it needs to be done and they have the leverage to force the issue.

The Dems screwed up and allowed the Republicans to get to this point; now everyone needs to take the medicine.

 

[Turin39789]

And then when does the government get serious about paying the bills?

They have not previously. :thumbsdown:

Until it is backed into a corner, nothing is done. They are so used to passing the issue down stream until later.

Now, the Republicans have decided to stop that action. While it may be for political reasons, it needs to be done and they have the leverage to force the issue.

The Dems screwed up and allowed the Republicans to get to this point; now everyone needs to take the medicine.

100% agree that about passing it downstream on both parties behalf.

Except it seems like it is the President who is now ready to make deals, cutting spending and raising revenue to make a $4t dent and the Republicans who are refusing to take their medicine, who are talking about kicking the can down the road with a temporary fix that will bring the issue up again during the next election cycle.

 

[kage69]

Most people seem to be rather impressed with the way the GOP is handling themselves by not budging until they receive moderate concessions. It's just like in the Clinton after '96 days, spending got reigned in. That's what most of the polls on CNN are showing at least. Democrats need to lay off the partisan stuff a bit, Republicans doing pretty well.

Impressed? LOL! Sounds like your weekend was a lot more fun than mine.

Even the rabid tea spooners I work with are walking around like some tough guy is waiting for them in the parking lot with a pocket full of whoopass. The normally outspoken and more level headed conservatives who frown upon the pea party are surprisingly silent lately. Odd.

Must be all that impressive stuff the GOP has been up to lately. :laugh:

Show me a person who's been impressed with the GOP giving 99% of the country (and their responsibilities) the middle finger and I'll show you a fvcking retard that's not worth listening to.