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Boehner walks from White House debt talks

MomentsofSanity

MomentsofSanity

Lifer
Says he will now work with the Senate. As an outsider this whole thing is just a big clusterfuck of a joke on all sides. So many people have painted themselves in different corners and no one wants to budge.
 
It's very simple: raise the debt ceiling to pay our bills. No deal, bundle, hostage taking.

Obama and the Democrats have supported that all along.
 
Craig234 said:
It's very simple: raise the debt ceiling to pay our bills. No deal, bundle, hostage taking.

Obama and the Democrats have supported that all along.
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Honest question: Can you even conceive of some level at which the correct answer would not be simply borrowing more money and raising taxes?

If so, what level of GDP would government spending then be?
 
The GOP backed themselves into this corner. Compromise is not a dirty word. They rejected deals that were tremendously gracious, especially considering that they control only half of Congress and they still balked. Pretty sad to watch, but I think it's fairly obvious that they will receive a lot of blame if something doesn't happen.

I think trying to tie government spending to GDP is an absolutely foolish policy. I can't think of any logical reason that justifies it.
 
Carmen813 said:
The GOP backed themselves into this corner. Compromise is not a dirty word. They rejected deals that were tremendously gracious, especially considering that they control only half of Congress and they still balked. Pretty sad to watch, but I think it's fairly obvious that they will receive a lot of blame if something doesn't happen.

I think trying to tie government spending to GDP is an absolutely foolish policy. I can't think of any logical reason that justifies it.
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Somehow, these Republicans seem to think they have a right to 'sign a pledge' that precludes good policy, and it allows them in negotiations to say 'sorry, we signed a pledge'.
 
The deals offered aren't ones that I personally like, but overall they would be good for our deficit situation. The Republicans have had ample opportunity to do the right thing here, and even before this manufactured 'crisis', but clearly they are willing to let this country shoot itself in the economic foot for political advantage. The only option they are leaving Democrats are to completely cave in on everything the Republicans want, or to let the country go under. Democrats aren't doing anything like that to the Republicans. This is just another example on how the Republicans, especially the freshmen Republicans, are piss-poor statesmen in a class of their own. Real statesmen will compromise for the good of their country. 😡
 
Boehner released a statement saying they will now work with Senate leaders. I'm hoping this is code for the McConnell plan as it is known the Reid and McConnell have been working today on that for days now.

I feel sorry for McConnell as I have been in that position when negotiating for totally unreasonable clients. Boehner is damned as a failure no matter which way he turns. Unfortunately the TP contingency in the House is stuck in their childish refusal to actually negotiate.

I think we will get some kid of debt ceiling increase but it is becoming increasingly likely to me that the USA's credit rating stands a very good chance of being downgraded. Perhaps Obama should ignore the Republicans and negotiate directly with Moodys? (j/k)
 
Thump553 said:
Boehner released a statement saying they will now work with Senate leaders. I'm hoping this is code for the McConnell plan as it is known the Reid and McConnell have been working today on that for days now.

I feel sorry for McConnell as I have been in that position when negotiating for totally unreasonable clients. Boehner is damned as a failure no matter which way he turns. Unfortunately the TP contingency in the House is stuck in their childish refusal to actually negotiate.

I think we will get some kid of debt ceiling increase but it is becoming increasingly likely to me that the USA's credit rating stands a very good chance of being downgraded. Perhaps Obama should ignore the Republicans and negotiate directly with Moodys? (j/k)
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😀 How much of a "stimulus package" to keep that Triple A, sport?

Hey, might be cheaper than the extra interest.
 
werepossum said:
Honest question: Can you even conceive of some level at which the correct answer would not be simply borrowing more money and raising taxes?

If so, what level of GDP would government spending then be?
Click to expand...


The Republican idea of compromise is Democrats giving them EVERYTHING they want. This isn't one of those situations where there are two sides to the story and everybody is equally to blame. It's purely Republicans playing politics and refusing to compromise, because their rhetoric has painted them into a corner.
 
It's just the Republican way of saying that the top .01% of earners have no intention of making any sacrifice for the common good, even as the rest of us are called upon to do so.

Little people need to sacrifice in a meaningful way, not people who can make large sacrifices rather painlessly. It'd be Un-American, against everything they stand for...
 
werepossum said:
Honest question: Can you even conceive of some level at which the correct answer would not be simply borrowing more money and raising taxes?

If so, what level of GDP would government spending then be?
Click to expand...

Good questions. For the budget debate. Not for the debt ceiling debate.
There shouldn't even be a debt limit debate, only spending and revenue debate. Debt is simply spending - revenue.
 
Waiting on PJ to post and defend this by telling us that it is Obama's fault by not compromising and that Boehner actually is compromising by walking out on negotiations.
 
The major problem is obviously the Republicans at this point have been put in a corner. Boehner can't raise taxes otherwise he will be recalled fairly quickly and at this point his political career is already in jeopardy. To think this is for the good of the country is a bit stupid. At this point it is about keeping Boehners already short political career longer.

As for .01% of republicans not wanting their taxes to go up, there was a fairly good survey on the Bloomberg Pro (Terminal) Service at the beginning of the year about higher taxes. A large majority of the users are going to be in the highest bracket and 65% of respondents said they wouldn't mind the highest marginal rate increasing. I don't agree that the republicans position is no tax increases, the elected Republicans position however is no higher taxes.
 
Throckmorton said:
The Republican idea of compromise is Democrats giving them EVERYTHING they want. This isn't one of those situations where there are two sides to the story and everybody is equally to blame. It's purely Republicans playing politics and refusing to compromise, because their rhetoric has painted them into a corner.
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Right. It's only Republicans who are playing politics. Funny how you see it like that every single time.

senseamp said:
Good questions. For the budget debate. Not for the debt ceiling debate.
There shouldn't even be a debt limit debate, only spending and revenue debate. Debt is simply spending - revenue.
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There is a point to that. However, we have a debt limit because Congress, no matter who is in charge, has fundamentally proven unable or unwilling to not bankrupt the country in pursuit of agenda. Look at it like this: I may be perfectly willing to buy a $20,000 new car, but if I don't get that raise I counted on, or if the car is actually $30,000 once all the fees are added, then I may have to revise my plans rather than automatically go another ten grand into debt.

If Congress agrees to spend $4 trillion but takes in only $2 trillion, re-evaluating the budget is at least as valid a reaction as automatically borrowing another couple trillion.
 
No more closed door meetings. We pay our leaders to conduct business in public!

It is obvious the president just wants to blindside the process and get only what he wants, more taxes. So it is useless to negotiate with a lyar backstabbing idiot. So tell the president to go to hell and figure it out between the house and the senate.
 
Beohner is such a worthless sack of excrement, since he has become speaker of the house not one single thing has come out of the house, absolutely nothing. And I really think he believes this is acceptable, and has no clue that he is dooming himself and the republican party.
 
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piasabird said:
No more closed door meetings. We pay our leaders to conduct business in public!

It is obvious the president just wants to blindside the process and get only what he wants, more taxes. So it is useless to negotiate with a lyar backstabbing idiot. So tell the president to go to hell and figure it out between the house and the senate.
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If you actually believe the garbage you spew I truly feel sorry for you. :'(
 
piasabird said:
No more closed door meetings. We pay our leaders to conduct business in public!

It is obvious the president just wants to blindside the process and get only what he wants, more taxes. So it is useless to negotiate with a lyar backstabbing idiot. So tell the president to go to hell and figure it out between the house and the senate.
Click to expand...
That's an excellent point. These discussions need to be held live on CSPAN, so that we can all see who is offering up what and who is being disingenuous. All we can do now is to mindlessly support the side we like the most, or rather, fear the least. There should be an official running tally on the Internet of each side's specific current proposals. If nothing else, it would keep us all honest.
 
werepossum said:
That's an excellent point. These discussions need to be held live on CSPAN, so that we can all see who is offering up what and who is being disingenuous. All we can do now is to mindlessly support the side we like the most, or rather, fear the least. There should be an official running tally on the Internet of each side's specific current proposals. If nothing else, it would keep us all honest.
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Though that would be great in an ideal world, the problem with that is neither side will make any significant concessions if the negotiations were public. The first side to blink would pay a heavy political cost as its base reacted in outrage. In today's highly-partisan America, the only way this can work politically if both sides present a comprehensive package to the public jointly, so that neither side gets blamed for the needed cuts and increases.
 
GuitarDaddy said:
Beohner is such a worthless sack of excrement, since he has become speaker of the house not one single thing has come out of the house, absolutely nothing. And I really think he believes this is exceptable, and has no clue that he is dooming himself and the republican party.
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So, we should return to the days of ramming through legislation without reading it? Mega thousand page bills that no one understands?

We have to pass the bill so that you can find out what is in it?

This just do something even if it's wrong method sounds good to those that feel that the way to measure success is by the intent. Meanwhile, the rest of us have to live with these garbage bills.
 
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