Bleh legalized ticket scalpers suck! LP tix $200+ dollars

[3chordcharlie]

Originally posted by: CrazyDe1

Originally posted by: Viper GTS
Anybody with a basic understanding of economics would have a hard time believing scalping is illegal anywhere.

It's a simple supply/demand relationship, if there's a market for scalpers the tickets are priced too cheap.

Viper GTS

EXACTLY!

This is a pretty misleading argument:

IF the companies are buying large numbers of tickets, what they are really doing is hijacking control of the supply of tickets. If they control enough of the supply to artificially create a shortage of tickets at face value, they can extract higher prices for some of the tickets they buy.

The trick is to make more money selling back two-thirds of the tickets you purchased than it cost you to buy the whole lot. "Anyone with a basic undersanding of economics" could tell you that this would be a brilliant scheme for creating a monopoly, especially for things like concerts where many people will want to go regardless of the price.

This is not a simple case of arbitrage, which can be argued for a single scalper, buying a small number of tickets, and selling them for a profit at the venue, or to someone who could not buy tickets themself for some reason. It is an artificial manipulation of supply which defeats the efforts of concert promoters to find a ticket price that results in a full venue, the venue normally having been chosen to be as close to 'profit-maximizing' when full as is possible for a given act.

Defeating schemes like this is one of the reasons for wristband and random-wristband policies; they aren't put in place to make it less convenient for you to buy tickets, they are there to make life harder for large-scale scalping ventures.

 

[jjones]

I don't know if things have changed, perhaps they have, but if they are the same as I recall, scalping should be illegal. When I quit going to concerts, it was because of scalpers. The scalpers would send as many people as they could to buy up tickets when they went on sale at the venue's ticket office. Thousands of real fans were there to buy tickets but also hundreds working for the scalpers were there too. The show would sell out and many fans were left with nothing while the scalpers made off with their fistfulls of tickets. Then the only option for the fan was to buy it at extortionist prices from the scaplers.

This happened to me at two different concert ticket sales and after that, I just quit going to concerts anymore.

If things have changed, great; but if the scalpers are still denying the opportunity for legit fans to buy tickets at the time they go on sale, then IMO scalping should be illegal.

 

Beat up a scalper on the street.

Anybody with a basic understanding of economics would have a hard time believing scalping is illegal anywhere.

It's a simple supply/demand relationship, if there's a market for scalpers the tickets are priced too cheap.

Viper GTS

So... by that argument monopolies are ok.

 

[HamSupLo]

Originally posted by: 3chordcharlie

Originally posted by: CrazyDe1

Originally posted by: Viper GTS
Anybody with a basic understanding of economics would have a hard time believing scalping is illegal anywhere.

It's a simple supply/demand relationship, if there's a market for scalpers the tickets are priced too cheap.

Viper GTS

EXACTLY!

This is a pretty misleading argument:

IF the companies are buying large numbers of tickets, what they are really doing is hijacking control of the supply of tickets. If they control enough of the supply to artificially create a shortage of tickets at face value, they can extract higher prices for some of the tickets they buy.

The trick is to make more money selling back two-thirds of the tickets you purchased than it cost you to buy the whole lot. "Anyone with a basic undersanding of economics" could tell you that this would be a brilliant scheme for creating a monopoly, especially for things like concerts where many people will want to go regardless of the price.

This is not a simple case of arbitrage, which can be argued for a single scalper, buying a small number of tickets, and selling them for a profit at the venue, or to someone who could not buy tickets themself for some reason. It is an artificial manipulation of supply which defeats the efforts of concert promoters to find a ticket price that results in a full venue, the venue normally having been chosen to be as close to 'profit-maximizing' when full as is possible for a given act.

Defeating schemes like this is one of the reasons for wristband and random-wristband policies; they aren't put in place to make it less convenient for you to buy tickets, they are there to make life harder for large-scale scalping ventures.

Bingo! Someone has a basic understanding of economics here. :thumbsup:

Hey if some people go so blindly with the "It's Capitalism" mantra, let them get bent over if they want to pay exorbiant prices if they want to.

 

[CVSiN]

Originally posted by: jjones
I don't know if things have changed, perhaps they have, but if they are the same as I recall, scalping should be illegal. When I quit going to concerts, it was because of scalpers. The scalpers would send as many people as they could to buy up tickets when they went on sale at the venue's ticket office. Thousands of real fans were there to buy tickets but also hundreds working for the scalpers were there too. The show would sell out and many fans were left with nothing while the scalpers made off with their fistfulls of tickets. Then the only option for the fan was to buy it at extortionist prices from the scaplers.

This happened to me at two different concert ticket sales and after that, I just quit going to concerts anymore.

If things have changed, great; but if the scalpers are still denying the opportunity for legit fans to buy tickets at the time they go on sale, then IMO scalping should be illegal.

No DD things havent changed much.. its very much that way except now they can use the internet/phone to really hammer ticketmaster the sec tix go on sale...
its nearly impossible for a legit fan to get a decent ticket at face value... or in soem cases a ticket at all.. as I quoted in this case.. even the super crappy sit at your own rish 18 dollar lawn seats are selling at 90 bucks+

 

[jjones]

Originally posted by: CVSiN

Originally posted by: jjones
I don't know if things have changed, perhaps they have, but if they are the same as I recall, scalping should be illegal. When I quit going to concerts, it was because of scalpers. The scalpers would send as many people as they could to buy up tickets when they went on sale at the venue's ticket office. Thousands of real fans were there to buy tickets but also hundreds working for the scalpers were there too. The show would sell out and many fans were left with nothing while the scalpers made off with their fistfulls of tickets. Then the only option for the fan was to buy it at extortionist prices from the scaplers.

This happened to me at two different concert ticket sales and after that, I just quit going to concerts anymore.

If things have changed, great; but if the scalpers are still denying the opportunity for legit fans to buy tickets at the time they go on sale, then IMO scalping should be illegal.

No DD things havent changed much.. its very much that way except now they can use the internet/phone to really hammer ticketmaster the sec tix go on sale...
its nearly impossible for a legit fan to get a decent ticket at face value... or in soem cases a ticket at all.. as I quoted in this case.. even the super crappy sit at your own rish 18 dollar lawn seats are selling at 90 bucks+

A very simple law should be enacted making it illegal to sell tickets at more than face value.

Edit: And I can't believe that this type of scalping is still permitted.

 

[sciencewhiz]

Originally posted by: 3chordcharlie

This is not a simple case of arbitrage, which can be argued for a single scalper, buying a small number of tickets, and selling them for a profit at the venue, or to someone who could not buy tickets themself for some reason. It is an artificial manipulation of supply which defeats the efforts of concert promoters to find a ticket price that results in a full venue, the venue normally having been chosen to be as close to 'profit-maximizing' when full as is possible for a given act.

The scalper does not create an "artificial shortage" or "manipulate supply". The supply was already low, the demand high, and a natural shortage occured.

 

[jjones]

Originally posted by: sciencewhiz

Originally posted by: 3chordcharlie

This is not a simple case of arbitrage, which can be argued for a single scalper, buying a small number of tickets, and selling them for a profit at the venue, or to someone who could not buy tickets themself for some reason. It is an artificial manipulation of supply which defeats the efforts of concert promoters to find a ticket price that results in a full venue, the venue normally having been chosen to be as close to 'profit-maximizing' when full as is possible for a given act.

The scalper does not create an "artificial shortage" or "manipulate supply". The supply was already low, the demand high, and a natural shortage occured.

It's not a natural shortage. What is natural about it? The scalpers buy up as many available tickets for the sole purpose of extorting money from fans.

 

[3chordcharlie]

Originally posted by: sciencewhiz

Originally posted by: 3chordcharlie

This is not a simple case of arbitrage, which can be argued for a single scalper, buying a small number of tickets, and selling them for a profit at the venue, or to someone who could not buy tickets themself for some reason. It is an artificial manipulation of supply which defeats the efforts of concert promoters to find a ticket price that results in a full venue, the venue normally having been chosen to be as close to 'profit-maximizing' when full as is possible for a given act.

The scalper does not create an "artificial shortage" or "manipulate supply". The supply was already low, the demand high, and a natural shortage occured.

Congratulations: You didn't read what I wrote, or you wouldn't say that. Here, I'll go back and highlight the key part of the strategy:

"The trick is to make more money selling back two-thirds of the tickets you purchased than it cost you to buy the whole lot."

 

[sciencewhiz]

Originally posted by: jjones

A very simple law should be enacted making it illegal to sell tickets at more than face value.

So, you are number 2001 in line for tickets for a concert with 2000 tickets sold. Sorry, you can't go. No one in their right mind would sell you their ticket for face value.

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: sciencewhiz

Originally posted by: jjones

A very simple law should be enacted making it illegal to sell tickets at more than face value.

So, you are number 2001 in line for tickets for a concert with 2000 tickets sold. Sorry, you can't go. No one in their right mind would sell you their ticket for face value.

Say that some schmuck bought b50 of those tickets for the purpose of reseeling them for a profit. Are you ok with that because I am not.

 

[edro]

I went to the Korn/Linkin Park concert about 3 weeks ago in Columbus. It was the best concert I have ever been to. I like Linkin Park a lot, but my fav band of all time is Korn. It was turbo sweet!

We were in the 7th row...with VIP parking...

...and it was all FREE from work! w0000t!

 

[waggy]

yeah i hate that. it happens all the time with Chicago Cubs tickets.

 

[jjones]

Originally posted by: sciencewhiz

Originally posted by: jjones

A very simple law should be enacted making it illegal to sell tickets at more than face value.

So, you are number 2001 in line for tickets for a concert with 2000 tickets sold. Sorry, you can't go. No one in their right mind would sell you their ticket for face value.

That's the point. If tickets are sold out, then they are sold out. Sorry you can't go is right. It's not as if scalpers magically create more tickets by doing what they do. Hopefully, you'll find someone who can't make it to the show and be able to buy the ticket from them - at face value.

 

[CVSiN]

Haha Nice Edro!
i really wanted to go I missed the LP Metallica show in Houston they filmed thier DVD on.. Im soo pissed my 2 fave bands in the same show.. =/
been to over 75 Metallica shows since 1986 and every time they hammered us.. but the DVD shows thta LP kicked butt in Houston that day =/
and I missed it =/

 

Originally posted by: jjones

Originally posted by: sciencewhiz

Originally posted by: jjones

A very simple law should be enacted making it illegal to sell tickets at more than face value.

So, you are number 2001 in line for tickets for a concert with 2000 tickets sold. Sorry, you can't go. No one in their right mind would sell you their ticket for face value.

That's the point. If tickets are sold out, then they are sold out. Sorry you can't go is right. It's not as if scalpers magically create more tickets by doing what they do. Hopefully, you'll find someone who can't make it to the show and be able to buy the ticket from them - at face value.

I've had situations where I bought only one ticket for a show but could not attend due to other obligations arising.
I put it in the classifide ads in the paper. I received calls on it and people were offering me above face value for the ticket. So that is what I sold it for.

 

[3chordcharlie]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: sciencewhiz

Originally posted by: jjones

A very simple law should be enacted making it illegal to sell tickets at more than face value.

So, you are number 2001 in line for tickets for a concert with 2000 tickets sold. Sorry, you can't go. No one in their right mind would sell you their ticket for face value.

Say that some schmuck bought b50 of those tickets for the purpose of reseeling them for a profit. Are you ok with that because I am not.

If it was simply a matter of me selling you my ticket at a mutually agreeable price (i.e. you're willing to pay that much to go to the concert, while I'm willing to accept that much to not go), it wouldn't break any rules of fair markets (though it would be illegal in some places).

The systemic abuse happens because they buy 50 tickets (or more like 500 tickets out of 2000) and only intend to sell 300 of them. They are artificially creating for themselves the opportunity to sell 300 tickets in an 1800 seat venue, at the cost of 500 seats in a 200 seat venue. Analysis of the concert-going habits of fans in the area will have helped the compnay decide how many tickets to purchase in order to make this highly profitable. That's why newer bands rarely have their tickets scalped on a large scale; it's too hard to figure out how much to squeeze the supply of tickets by in order to make more money!

(I know you understand this, but I'm fleshing out the problem a little more).

 

[CVSiN]

Originally posted by: SampSon

Originally posted by: jjones

Originally posted by: sciencewhiz

Originally posted by: jjones

A very simple law should be enacted making it illegal to sell tickets at more than face value.

So, you are number 2001 in line for tickets for a concert with 2000 tickets sold. Sorry, you can't go. No one in their right mind would sell you their ticket for face value.

That's the point. If tickets are sold out, then they are sold out. Sorry you can't go is right. It's not as if scalpers magically create more tickets by doing what they do. Hopefully, you'll find someone who can't make it to the show and be able to buy the ticket from them - at face value.

I've had situations where I bought only one ticket for a show but could not attend due to other obligations arising.
I put it in the classifide ads in the paper. I received calls on it and people were offering me above face value for the ticket. So that is what I sold it for.

hey i wouldnt mind that at all.. but the fact that these services are what put the bind on the supply is what pisses me off..
do a quick search on google...
Concert tickets Houston Linkin park...
go into a few of these services web pages ..
it shows how many tickets they have in stock and where they are... there is over 1000 seperate tickets listed between these places...
thats alot of tickets...
most individual sites are showing about 50-100 tickets each..

 

[sygyzy]

Originally posted by: RagingBITCH
AFAIK, ticket companies have to follow the same rules as individuals selling tickets, unless that state has a special law/rule regarding resale by companies.

Doubtful. Ticket companies always scalp them. If the same rules applied, they wouldn't be in business. I am referring to the companies that buy up the tickets, not Ticketmaster.

 

[Jzero]

Originally posted by: CVSiN
hey i wouldnt mind that at all.. but the fact that these services are what put the bind on the supply is what pisses me off..

The Tweeter Centre in Camden has a 25000 seat capacity when the lawn is open and the rear wall is not in place.
Philadelphia ALONE has 1.5 million residents, but people come from all over the northeastern US to see shows there.

The scalpers aren't restricting the supply - it is already restricted by the intrinsic way performance venues work.

 

[3chordcharlie]

Originally posted by: Jzero

Originally posted by: CVSiN
hey i wouldnt mind that at all.. but the fact that these services are what put the bind on the supply is what pisses me off..

The Tweeter Centre in Camden has a 25000 seat capacity when the lawn is open and the rear wall is not in place.
Philadelphia ALONE has 1.5 million residents, but people come from all over the northeastern US to see shows there.

The scalpers aren't restricting the supply - it is already restricted by the intrinsic way performance venues work.

If this were the only reason, the promoters would raise prices to make more money. Why would they donate to another company and allow them to make free profits?

 

[jjones]

Originally posted by: SampSon

Originally posted by: jjones

Originally posted by: sciencewhiz

Originally posted by: jjones

A very simple law should be enacted making it illegal to sell tickets at more than face value.

So, you are number 2001 in line for tickets for a concert with 2000 tickets sold. Sorry, you can't go. No one in their right mind would sell you their ticket for face value.

That's the point. If tickets are sold out, then they are sold out. Sorry you can't go is right. It's not as if scalpers magically create more tickets by doing what they do. Hopefully, you'll find someone who can't make it to the show and be able to buy the ticket from them - at face value.

I've had situations where I bought only one ticket for a show but could not attend due to other obligations arising.
I put it in the classifide ads in the paper. I received calls on it and people were offering me above face value for the ticket. So that is what I sold it for.

That's no big deal compared to the effect scalpers have. Everyone wants to make a little extra when they can and given the precedent allowed by scalping, it's a pretty normal thing to do. But I'll ask you this: Assuming that scalping is illegal, would you have a real problem if you were only allowed to sell the ticket for face value?

The unfortunate effect of scalping is that at many events it denies many legit fans the opportunity to buy a ticket at it's original selling price. They are denied this opportunity not because there are too many fans buying tickets for the event, but because companies buy up as many available tickets that they can for the sole purpose of creating a shortage and extorting money from fans.

 

[Jzero]

Originally posted by: 3chordcharlie

Originally posted by: Jzero

Originally posted by: CVSiN
hey i wouldnt mind that at all.. but the fact that these services are what put the bind on the supply is what pisses me off..

The Tweeter Centre in Camden has a 25000 seat capacity when the lawn is open and the rear wall is not in place.
Philadelphia ALONE has 1.5 million residents, but people come from all over the northeastern US to see shows there.

The scalpers aren't restricting the supply - it is already restricted by the intrinsic way performance venues work.

If this were the only reason, the promoters would raise prices to make more money. Why would they donate to another company and allow them to make free profits?

Hey, I still don't know why they do that, but they are learning. Ticket prices have gone through the roof in the last 10 years. If they know a reseller can make more money selling only 2/3 of the seats, it won't be long before they start selling only 2/3 of the seats at much higher prices. They'll just start using the same market research techniques the scalpers use right now.

 

[yukichigai]

Originally posted by: Viper GTS
Anybody with a basic understanding of economics would have a hard time believing scalping is illegal anywhere.

It's a simple supply/demand relationship, if there's a market for scalpers the tickets are priced too cheap.

Viper GTS

Anybody with a basic understanding of economics will also understand that scalping -- in fact any significant form of immediate reselling by unlicensed/undendorsed 3rd party vendors -- artificially inflates the Demand segment of the Supply/Demand equation. The fact of the matter is that scalping does increase the average price of a concert ticket pre-resale.

 

[jjones]

Originally posted by: jjones

Originally posted by: SampSon

Originally posted by: jjones

Originally posted by: sciencewhiz

Originally posted by: jjones

A very simple law should be enacted making it illegal to sell tickets at more than face value.

So, you are number 2001 in line for tickets for a concert with 2000 tickets sold. Sorry, you can't go. No one in their right mind would sell you their ticket for face value.

That's the point. If tickets are sold out, then they are sold out. Sorry you can't go is right. It's not as if scalpers magically create more tickets by doing what they do. Hopefully, you'll find someone who can't make it to the show and be able to buy the ticket from them - at face value.

I've had situations where I bought only one ticket for a show but could not attend due to other obligations arising.
I put it in the classifide ads in the paper. I received calls on it and people were offering me above face value for the ticket. So that is what I sold it for.

That's no big deal compared to the effect scalpers have. Everyone wants to make a little extra when they can and given the precedent allowed by scalping, it's a pretty normal thing to do. But I'll ask you this: Assuming that scalping is illegal, would you have a real problem if you were only allowed to sell the ticket for face value?

The unfortunate effect of scalping is that at many events it denies many legit fans the opportunity to buy a ticket at it's original selling price. They are denied this opportunity not because there are too many fans buying tickets for the event, but because companies buy up as many available tickets that they can for the sole purpose of creating a shortage and extorting money from fans.

Edit: They're not actually creating a shortage, they are taking advantage of and contributing to an anticipated shortage.

Edit 2: Oops, that was suppoed to be an edit of my post.