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Bleh legalized ticket scalpers suck! LP tix $200+ dollars

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well if this is the true issue how come Arena shows dont sell out from the same problems...
the Linkin park, Limp Biskit, Metallica, Deftones concert held in the 100k seat Reliant stadium did not sell out... and there were tickets availible... the whole concert was GA.. this affects the smaller venues / ampatheatres that are very popular for concerts now... those with only about 25k capacity.. this is when the dent from scalpers really begins to hurt us...
less tickets at a bigger proportion bought up by peeps only trying to make a profit.. robbing fans that want to go...

Arena/staduim shows hardly ever sell out mainly becasue they are set up as 100% GA which means way more than 100k peeps can possibly see the show.. since you are utilizing the stadium floors as well as the regular football seating... minus 1 end zone usually...

ozzfest lalapalooza etc that are held in huge venues dont seem to have the same problems... even though demand is super high.. the differnce is that the scalpers cannot possibly buy up all the seats for the bigger venues.. where 20k seats sell very fast.. especially when you have 100s of ticket companies trying to get thier share of tickets to sell...
 
Originally posted by: CVSiN
How or why is this allowed..
In most states individuals cannot scalp tickets.. but they allow a company to do the same thing...
why on earth should we have to pay 90 dollars for a grass seat because the scalper companies buy up all the tickets...
300+ dollars for reserved seats in the center REAR... 200 dollars for a semi obstructed view ticket...

I really wanted to see LP and Korn.. but I cant justify this kind of money for 1 ticket... for a 4 hour concert..

The dont allow these "services" in some states wonder why Texas does =/
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If you don't think it's worth it to pay $300 or $200 for whatever seats, then don't pay it

I don't really see the problem here...
 
Originally posted by: Jzero
Hey, I still don't know why they do that, but they are learning. Ticket prices have gone through the roof in the last 10 years. If they know a reseller can make more money selling only 2/3 of the seats, it won't be long before they start selling only 2/3 of the seats at much higher prices. They'll just start using the same market research techniques the scalpers use right now.
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You're right - prices have gone up a lot, and many bands that used to insist on low prices to preserve accessibility for their fans (The Tragically Hip in Canada are one example) have recently adopted higher prices to help prevent scalping; they realized that the money they were giving up to try to help their fans was simply ending up in the pockets of scalpers.

Promoters try not to book bands in locations that are too large: it looks bad to play to an empty house, and in general it isn't as much fun for the band or the fans. So when a promoter lowers the ticket-supply, what we see is a more subtle shift from stadiums to arenas, and from arenas to concert halls.

Remember also that scalpers are manipulating the supply after it is initially announced; many fans DO get tickets at face value. This complicates the market, and I'm not sure if the promoter could always shrink the venue similarly and make larger profits; a more accurate comparison is a theatre with a 'hot' play that releases 'a new block of tickets' in the last day or two before a show which they claimed was 'sold out'. They kept back tickets as a way of making the supply seem smaller than it really was. In the case of large-scale scalpers, they are the ones with the extra block of tickets.*

Market economics ignores psychology at it's peril 😉

*Actually, sometimes the extra block of tickets is held back as a weapon against scalpers; the theatre hopes that they have enough face-value tickets available on the day of the performance to serve the customers who came willing to pay scalper's prices. The goal being to lessen the impact of scalping on the concert-going/play-watching experience.
 
*Actually, sometimes the extra block of tickets is held back as a weapon against scalpers; the theatre hopes that they have enough face-value tickets available on the day of the performance to serve the customers who came willing to pay scalper's prices. The goal being to lessen the impact of scalping on the concert-going/play-watching experience.
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This might be true in some cases, but not always. I worked at an arena and did ticketing for all the cities venues. In many cases, lots of tickets were sold for sold-out shows on the day of the show. The reason for this is the promoter of the show. When contracts are signed, ticket allotments for the promoter, venue, etc. are decided upon. So, say the promoter holds out 1,000 tickets. Why you ask? Mainly 3 reasons. 1. Band/promoter/crew tickets that are given as comps to people like band families, record label folks, media, etc. 2. They hold many back because of the stage setup and sightlines. If there is a question of whether section 102 will have a clear view of the stage, they will hold these. If, after they setup everything and walk over to 102 and everything is cool, they will be released. 3. The last reason is problem tickets. Say after they got everything setup there is a speaker blocking half of section 201 from seeing the stage. Those folks are moved to seats the promoter held from the get go. In the 8 years that I worked there, we never held tickets back due to thwarting scalping. Granted, we are a mid-level market so bigger ones might do this.

Scalping is fine in my opinion. I knew most of the scalpers that regularly worked the shows in our area. We didn't have large companies buying 1000s of tickets to an event, but we did have scalpers. We used a 10 ticket/person rule at every outlet. Some were policed better than others. But still, if someone thinks they can buy all the tickets and then make more profit, be my guest. Old saying, "it takes money to make money."

The only reason companies get away with it is because people pay the prices. If no one bought the tickets, they would be out of business real quick. But, folks seem to think, "I have to see Metallica. Sucks tickets are $300 from XX broker." This isn't the case. You don't have to go. Really, you don't. Is an unfair market set up at this point? Maybe, but you have free will not to attend.

I've done this before. When Playstation 2s came out, I bought as many as I could find. I made a good amount selling those over the next month. Should that be illegal? Should selling a comic book over the $0.25 price tag be illegal if I'm holding Superman #1?

Let's say Target gets a special edition Star Wars DVD with an extra disc inside. Should it be illegal if I want to take a chance, buy every copy my Target gets, and then resell them?

The supply and demand for concert tickets exists scalping or not. Scalping does inflate prices, but 90% of the time the person forced to pay that didn't buy tickets at face when they could have. They waited. Maybe they have valid reasons for waiting, but it doesn't matter. You waited, now pay higher prices.

Bands playing arenas and concert halls large enough to warrant scalpers to buy mass numbers of tickets aren't looking for new fans. They have the fans they need. They make most of their money from touring so they are just happy it sold out. And it also creates a must-be there atmosphere. Tickets are $400, wow. That must be a good show. It increases awareness in many cases and some people will check it out due to this reason. Obviously the band wants new fans, but if the show is good, the person that paid $300 will tell everyone how good it was. Chain reaction from there.
 
Originally posted by: jjones
Originally posted by: SampSon
Originally posted by: jjones
Originally posted by: sciencewhiz
Originally posted by: jjones

A very simple law should be enacted making it illegal to sell tickets at more than face value.
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So, you are number 2001 in line for tickets for a concert with 2000 tickets sold. Sorry, you can't go. No one in their right mind would sell you their ticket for face value.
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That's the point. If tickets are sold out, then they are sold out. Sorry you can't go is right. It's not as if scalpers magically create more tickets by doing what they do. Hopefully, you'll find someone who can't make it to the show and be able to buy the ticket from them - at face value.
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I've had situations where I bought only one ticket for a show but could not attend due to other obligations arising.
I put it in the classifide ads in the paper. I received calls on it and people were offering me above face value for the ticket. So that is what I sold it for.
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That's no big deal compared to the effect scalpers have. Everyone wants to make a little extra when they can and given the precedent allowed by scalping, it's a pretty normal thing to do. But I'll ask you this: Assuming that scalping is illegal, would you have a real problem if you were only allowed to sell the ticket for face value?

The unfortunate effect of scalping is that at many events it denies many legit fans the opportunity to buy a ticket at it's original selling price. They are denied this opportunity not because there are too many fans buying tickets for the event, but because companies buy up as many available tickets that they can for the sole purpose of creating a shortage and extorting money from fans.
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I never said, nor implied that I endorsed ticket scalping in anyway.
I am against it.
 
Sigh Austin, ya LP is pretty big here... lots of airplay and lots of fans... but then again surfing and calling the ticket agencies I see they have a great number of the reserved tix for this show..
thats what brought this up...

Whats funny is there are still very good tickets for Metallica in November.. whcih I already got a very nice ticket to for 50 bucks...
this same seat scapled would cost me 300 bucks easy.....
The reason for this i beleive is the Staduim is selling thier own tickets it appears.. ticketmaster does not have a listing for this concert or the new Toyota Center in downtown houston yet..
not sure if this is hampering scalpers or what... but GA is sold out but the very good stadium seating very close to stage is still availible
 
Originally posted by: 3chordcharlie
Originally posted by: Jzero
Hey, I still don't know why they do that, but they are learning. Ticket prices have gone through the roof in the last 10 years. If they know a reseller can make more money selling only 2/3 of the seats, it won't be long before they start selling only 2/3 of the seats at much higher prices. They'll just start using the same market research techniques the scalpers use right now.
Click to expand...

You're right - prices have gone up a lot, and many bands that used to insist on low prices to preserve accessibility for their fans (The Tragically Hip in Canada are one example) have recently adopted higher prices to help prevent scalping; they realized that the money they were giving up to try to help their fans was simply ending up in the pockets of scalpers.

Promoters try not to book bands in locations that are too large: it looks bad to play to an empty house, and in general it isn't as much fun for the band or the fans. So when a promoter lowers the ticket-supply, what we see is a more subtle shift from stadiums to arenas, and from arenas to concert halls.

Remember also that scalpers are manipulating the supply after it is initially announced; many fans DO get tickets at face value. This complicates the market, and I'm not sure if the promoter could always shrink the venue similarly and make larger profits; a more accurate comparison is a theatre with a 'hot' play that releases 'a new block of tickets' in the last day or two before a show which they claimed was 'sold out'. They kept back tickets as a way of making the supply seem smaller than it really was. In the case of large-scale scalpers, they are the ones with the extra block of tickets.*

Market economics ignores psychology at it's peril 😉

*Actually, sometimes the extra block of tickets is held back as a weapon against scalpers; the theatre hopes that they have enough face-value tickets available on the day of the performance to serve the customers who came willing to pay scalper's prices. The goal being to lessen the impact of scalping on the concert-going/play-watching experience.
Click to expand...
That's hardly a failure on the part of market economics. Market economics reacts as it's supposed to but the variable that has changed is the supplier--the performer--has shifted his utility curve--from which his supply curve is derived. Market economics can take psychic value into account--don't you worry 😉
 
This smells like Clear Channel.

Chris Rock stated that during his last tour he intentionally tried to limit ticket prices to $100/per in order to have more it accessible to average black folk. However, Clear Channel, which owned the venue (they own most large venues in the US now), also owns the 'ticket reseller' company which buys up huge blocks of the tickets for $100/per as soon as they go on sale and then turn around and sell them for $200-500/per. WTF?
 
A quick search shows the website of the tour and surprise, surprise it's a Clear Channel Communications production. Clear Channel and Lowry Mays, a good friend of GWB, can go f*ck themselves.
 
Originally posted by: b0mbrman
That's hardly a failure on the part of market economics. Market economics reacts as it's supposed to but the variable that has changed is the supplier--the performer--has shifted his utility curve--from which his supply curve is derived. Market economics can take psychic value into account--don't you worry 😉
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It's not a failure of people to react to the market they face.

It's the intentional creation of a market-failure for the purposes of exploitation.

And you'll find that I nowhere here say that people are forced to pay more than they are willing to pay for a ticket; what is happening is the artificial creation of something approximating 'perfect pricing'. I.E. all consumer surplus is redirected to the seller.

I can wave lines around graphs, and highlight triangles as well as anyone on these forums, and better than most. removed: relevent but I'd rather it not be misinterpreted The fact remains that the situation created by large-scale ticket scalpers is one of the fundamental problems with market economics.

Actually, 90% of the people who end up buying from scalpers may have tried to buy tickets initially but been beaten to it by those scalpers. Neither you nor I have any way to know this for sure, but if the concert sold out in the first few hours, chances are this is the case, and not that they were too lazy to buy tickets. Why not have a look at ticket prices for Toronto Maple Leafs gams (or other sports teams with rabid fans). Scalpers have their fingers so deep in seasons tickets and other sources that the average person is lucky to ever have the opportunity to buy at face value (one of the reasons it doens't bother me when they raises prices is that all it really does is take a bite out of scalpers' illegitimate profits, since people arne't necessarily willing to pay more just because the price on the ticket has gone up).

BTW - thanks to royaldank for some more insight on other reasons why tickets might be held back. I'm afraid that I think it probably should be illegal for you to purchase retail products for speculative reasons, unless you have set up a legitimate business for that purpose, and purchase from a wholesale supplier. Also, the products you mention have MSRPs, not set prices, so if you purchase them through a supplier and are not breaking any tax laws, etc, you will find yourself free to set whatever price you want. Ticketmaster and outlets sell retail tickets, they do not sell tickets for the purposes of resale.
 
My thoughts are fairly simple. If you want a ticket to a concert, you can probably get one at face value if you try hard renough. Maybe this means camping out for a day in line. Maybe this means getting up at 4am and traveling to an outlet. Generally, you can get tickets at face when they go on sale.

I will say that there are instances where you might not. In the last 15 years of seeing shows (well over 1000 shows) there has only been one time when I almost didn't get tickets at face. I showed up at an outlet around 8:30 for a 10:00 on sale. Because of the random wristband policy, I was back of the line. When I got up to purchase tickets, they were sold out. People were bitching like crazy as this was approx 10:05. What most people fail to realize is the setup Ticketmaster has going. They field calls across the country for concert sales. For example, say Metallica is playing in ATL. It's a hard ticket and tons of people are calling. TM might have call centers from NY to Texas taking the ATL orders. Add to that the ability to do regional outlet selling (outlet sales from VA to FL) and you see how fast tickets can go.

Do scalping companies pay folks to camp out? Sure they do. But you have every right to join those people and get tickets. You have every right to hire a buddy or two to stand in line at other places. I've had to pull a 3 man gig at different outlets before to get tickets. Only 1 of the 3 scored and we were happy.

I will say that any policy of holding back tickets from the public and selling directly to a scalping company probably doesn't happen all that much. If it does, it's wrong. It's probably illegal. All tickets must be sold 'over the counter' except rare instances (charity group tickets, medical problem tickets, etc.). I am very much against any type of insider trading of tickets to scalping companies. But, if the company is using 40 bums at $100/day to stay in line, power to them.
 
You're still arguing from the perspective that on ticket-buying-day there are essentially unlimited tickets. This simply isn't true. When large-scale scalping reduces the supply of tickets, some people who would have received tickets in a system geared to good-faith purchasing are unable to do so. It's no different from selling the 'not for individual sale' razor blades you buy at costco. If the items aren't sold with the intention of being used as a supply for sale, then it's not right to treat them that way.

The economic inefficiency is a separate issue, and you'll probably see form many of my other posts that it is rarely a priority for me that things be efficient, but at the same time, it is an undeniable result. You have to analyze the real difference between one concert-goer selling the ticket to another, because the other values the ticket more highly, and the practice of manipulating a market to acheive private gain. It's illegal in stock trading, and it should be illegal for ticket sales as well.
 
Originally posted by: 3chordcharlie
You're still arguing from the perspective that on ticket-buying-day there are essentially unlimited tickets. This simply isn't true. When large-scale scalping reduces the supply of tickets, some people who would have received tickets in a system geared to good-faith purchasing are unable to do so. It's no different from selling the 'not for individual sale' razor blades you buy at costco. If the items aren't sold with the intention of being used as a supply for sale, then it's not right to treat them that way.
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In my 15+ years, I've never been shut out from a ticket sale on the first day if I did enough work. I understand your point and agree with it somewhat. I guess I just haven't been exposed to any situation where someone who camped overnight at the ticket outlet wasn't able to get a ticket.

I think stock trading is a bit different. Not sure that really is a fair analogy. You are dealing with a company's value instead of some luxury entertainment item. I'm no stock expert, so I could be way off here.

If it wasn't some luxury item that everyone can do without, it would be different.
 
LOL I get free tix and backstage passes to any LP concert, but I passed up on the chance last weekend when they came to Charlotte, because it was dreary outside and I thought it would rain. If I had called to reserve earlier (like a few months ago) I could've guaranteed me front row tix but as it is I only called week of the concert, and all I could get for free was lawn passes. Oh well, I'm not really a big fan anyway.
 
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