Bleak news for Average American's wages

[WhipperSnapper]

I also love how many of you lefties can't wait to strip religion and religious values out of public existence, yet you complain when the 'greedy' CEOs keep all the raise money for themselves. Maybe this is what happens when the concepts of morality and peoples' sense of fairness disappears? Hmm...

Isn't it possible to be an atheist and to have a strong sense of morality at the same time? Can't an atheist have a moral system? I'm a proud atheist and I certainly believe in objective right and wrong.

Why do you think religion has a monopoly on morality and philosophy? Is it possible that many religions often have destructive aspects to their moral code and belief systems? (Take the notion of original sin--you are inherently bad--ridiculous.)

Have religious institutions always looked out for the good of other people, or do they sometimes become powerful political entities themselves that try to confiscate their people's wealth (building lush palaces for themselves--see Catholicism). Historically, religion has even been used as a means of controlling the masses for the benefit of the upper classes.

Heck--today--arguably many of the people who vote Republican and who support the Tea Party--even though they themselves are not rich--do so for RELIGIOUS reasons (opposition to abortion, etc.). They vote against their own economic selfish interest because they are blinded by their insane religious devotion.

 

[WhipperSnapper]

It is not. However, it helps put a restraint on people who would otherwise push the envelope of what society broadly considers good and decent.

And people need to have those boundaries defined in order for a civil society to function effectively. Clearly, something is missing in this day and age and it is decency IMO. The de-emphasizing of religion and moral behavior in our daily lives, and the overemphasis on self / selfishness / hubris is contributing to all of the negative behavior, lack of fairness, etc many of you are observing today.

I definitely agree that people need philosophy--people need a guide to life. But why does it need to take the form of belief in a magical transcendental being as opposed to being an explicitly rational atheist philosophy based on reason? Why can't we just dispense with this child-like belief in a magic God-being and instead establish atheist philosophies to guide us?

If anything, a good atheist philosophy would be far superior to religion because no one would be questioning the entire basis of their morality because they question the existence of the god-being.

 

[WhipperSnapper]

Fair question. As a moderately religious person (Catholic) who believes in judgement day at death, I would suggest that they will be judged based on the gifts they were given. If they grew up and were taught religion, know their faith, yet behaved poorly or rejected it, then they will be judged harder than the person who grew up in a completely secular non-religious household who behaved generally decent but still far from perfect. Not sure if that answers your question adequately. Actually, my wife who is a devout Catholic (who grew up in Spain and was taught our faith properly, not out of fear like we were here) could give you a much better answer but she is not here right now to read my answer.

Did you grow up as an agnostic, study various religions and philosophies, and then conclude that Catholicism made the most sense, or were you indoctrinated into Catholic belief since early childhood?

Are you open to the possibility that Catholicism is false and that there is no such thing as a God? Do you think your upbringing and peer/family pressure makes it difficult to ask the hard questions?

(The moral of the story is--you should really keep religion out of these economic policy debates.)

 

[alphatarget1]

There are simply a lot of skills that have become obsolete and isn't needed in the economy anymore. I don't think everyone is cut out to work their butt off and make themselves more marketable to a potential employer.

Ultimately we are becoming more efficient at what we do in many industries, and those who are not cut out are let go. That's just how things will be in the future...

 

[RbSX]

Jesus, how did this turn into a religious thread?

The reality is that there's been an increase in productivity for the last 30 years while real wages have been stagnant.

This is no news to the well informed.

 

[Doppel]

(the moral of the story is--you should really keep religion out of these economic policy debates.)

please

 

[Doppel]

BTW here are some excepts from Buchanan's new book on drudge. I can't say they are all wrong that's for sure.

http://www.drudgereport.com/flashpb.htm

 

[Jhhnn]

There are simply a lot of skills that have become obsolete and isn't needed in the economy anymore. I don't think everyone is cut out to work their butt off and make themselves more marketable to a potential employer.

Ultimately we are becoming more efficient at what we do in many industries, and those who are not cut out are let go. That's just how things will be in the future...

But... But... Hard Work! Righties claim that's the key to success... Hard Work!

So, if after 30 years or so of Hard Work!, your skills are outsourced, offshored or rendered obsolete by automation, or just at low demand because of a general economic downturn, them's just the breaks, huh?

Fuck 'em! but, well, feel sorry for 'em, too, because that's the essence of compassionate conservatism...

Efficiency! It's the duty of every internet corporate shill to promote efficiency!, make sure every last nickel goes swiftly to the top, because execs need their bonuses and corporate America needs all the cash reserves they can muster!

Job Creators! Give 'em a tax break too!

 

[MagickMan]

Do you really think the people are going to rise up and start constructing guillotines?

No, they're gonna rise up and order another Big Mac w/ extra cheese and a fried pie. Most of those saps are at the Wall Street rallies because they're bored or they want to be on the TV.

"What we here for?"
"Dunno, but check out that hot bitch from WTEN!"
"DAYUM!"

 

[HeXen]

So what is the average wage of americans now? used to be $15 per hour i heard years ago.

 

[dmcowen674]

Bleak news for Average American's wages

Average American's wages have dropped 7% since 2000 and the majority of Economist surveyed feel wages won't even begin to catch up until 2021.

Welcome to the new normal.

It's been well documented by me and others in here that have been experiencing wages going down.

Of course you also see the ones in here that they are not affected and their wages have been going up as they destroy the country and proud of it.

 

[dmcowen674]

Do you really think the people are going to rise up and start constructing guillotines?

Absolutely and not soon enough.

 

[HeXen]

Of course you also see the ones in here that they are not affected and their wages have been going up as they destroy the country and proud of it.

well its not effected me and i even got a raise this year. though i'd like to know how my wage increase is destroying this country?

 

[Jhhnn]

well its not effected me and i even got a raise this year. though i'd like to know how my wage increase is destroying this country?

Oh, please. Nobody is begrudging any middle class worker a raise or stable employment. Far from it.

It's not about your job, my job, or Dave's job, but rather about the generalized trend of income shifting to the top. We tried to ignore it when times were good, but it's become predatory in the very lean times of today. The financial elite's income is still growing in any terms you'd care to use, while falling, in aggregate, for the rest of us.

That's trickledown economics in action.

 

[HeXen]

sounds more like the "me" generation is wanting a piece of cake

 

[Craig234]

sounds more like the "me" generation is wanting a piece of cake

What kind of a doofus ideologue are you?

The left is cheering you getting a raise and fighting for you to get bigger ones.

 

[Craig234]

No, they're gonna rise up and order another Big Mac w/ extra cheese and a fried pie. Most of those saps are at the Wall Street rallies because they're bored or they want to be on the TV.

"What we here for?"
"Dunno, but check out that hot bitch from WTEN!"
"DAYUM!"

MagickMan is here because he's bored and likes to see his name posted. He doesn't actually have anything to say about the issues.

 

[Nebor]

What kind of a doofus ideologue are you?

The left is cheering you getting a raise and fighting for you to get bigger ones.

Because he's not selfish? He's selfless.

When people selflessly support the poor, you cheer them. When people selflessly support the rich, you jeer at them. Hypocrisy. Selflessness is selflessness, to do for others without concern for your own well being. It's noble.

 

[Nebor]

Of course you also see the ones in here that they are not affected and their wages have been going up as they destroy the country and proud of it.

What do you expect from those of us that hate America so much? To just let her prosper?

 

[HeXen]

What kind of a doofus ideologue are you?

The left is cheering you getting a raise and fighting for you to get bigger ones.

lol. look, you missed it entirely, so just move on.

 

[Moonbeam]

Because he's not selfish? He's selfless.

When people selflessly support the poor, you cheer them. When people selflessly support the rich, you jeer at them. Hypocrisy. Selflessness is selflessness, to do for others without concern for your own well being. It's noble.

You make these absurd statements because you have no idea what you are talking about. In order to understand selflessness you have to be selfless. Selflessness has nothing at all to do with being noble. You are selfish so when you do something for others YOU feel noble, your self, your ego does. Selfless people don't react like you do because they have no self. The selfless are selfless without effort or thought simply by being who they are.

You are angry that you aren't selfless because a part of you remembers the perfection of when you were. You are lucky. You know you're full of hate. You need to be more hateful still. Get yourself a therapist that has a padded cell, get in there and puck up your rage. Hehehehe, you'll find out that so far you're just a bit tepid. I know, trust me!

 

[Moonbeam]

lol. look, you missed it entirely, so just move on.

Wait a minute? He missed it? How so? Please restate what you think he missed?

You said: "well its (Should be it's but what do you mean by 'it')not effected me and i even got a raise this year. though i'd like to know how my wage increase is destroying this country?" The rest of the statement seems rather clear.

So what did Craig miss? Could it be that you didn't say what you thought you did?

 

[alphatarget1]

But... But... Hard Work! Righties claim that's the key to success... Hard Work!

So, if after 30 years or so of Hard Work!, your skills are outsourced, offshored or rendered obsolete by automation, or just at low demand because of a general economic downturn, them's just the breaks, huh?

Fuck 'em! but, well, feel sorry for 'em, too, because that's the essence of compassionate conservatism...

Efficiency! It's the duty of every internet corporate shill to promote efficiency!, make sure every last nickel goes swiftly to the top, because execs need their bonuses and corporate America needs all the cash reserves they can muster!

Job Creators! Give 'em a tax break too!

Do you feel bad for switchboard operators who have lost their jobs? It simply isn't needed anymore. I remember a few years back reading about how back in the 50s and 60s, a lot of people in industrial states don't care for education in their next generation thinking that the auto job will be around when their kids grow up. That's the mentality most people have. Most want a stable job and do it till they retire. We can't stay on top forever if people don't innovate.

Like it or not, we live in a capitalistic society where the companies' goals are to maximize profit. I do believe that a lot of US based companies are short-sighted when it comes to technology transfer, but that's another topic all together.

I don't have a solution to stagnating wages, and I'm pretty sure that our policy makers do not either. What we are seeing is an equalization of standard of living around the world. I think there are certain things policy makers can make it less painful for people in developed countries, but it only delays the inevitable.

US is not the only country that has wage stagnation. Places like Germany has had double digit unemployment for well over a decade due to a variety of factors, plus high taxation for almost everyone (regressive taxes that you hate). When the US military is inevitably required to shrink due to budgetary reasons, other democratic socialistic countries will have to ramp up their military spending to fill in the void, which means less resources will be available for welfare.

My $0.02.

 

[amdhunter]

Thank You Obama. At least with Bush, all he did was make life miserable overseas. Obama brought it here to the states.

I wish someone would step up and start using some of that overseas oil to make life better here in the states already.

 

[Moonbeam]

"We live in a capitalist society, like it or not" Hehehe

If you need a job to live than then having a job is a human right. If a job is a human right, the government must supply everybody that can work with a job. And it is the right of the people to abolish any form of government that is obstructive of these ends. Such an outcome may have begun.

You can't just go along and tell people who have hungry children that things are want they are. Nope, they are going to tell you how things are going to be.

The sword of God is the empty bellies of the poor. A saying