Bleak news for Average American's wages

[Ausm]

In other news, CEO pay is up 28%!

http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2198537

So what, these threads are talking about 2 separate issues that can or can not be connected depending on what your ideological beliefs are...

 

[Ausm]

sounds more like the "me" generation is wanting a piece of cake

Please take off your blinders

 

[Jhhnn]

Do you feel bad for switchboard operators who have lost their jobs? It simply isn't needed anymore. I remember a few years back reading about how back in the 50s and 60s, a lot of people in industrial states don't care for education in their next generation thinking that the auto job will be around when their kids grow up. That's the mentality most people have. Most want a stable job and do it till they retire. We can't stay on top forever if people don't innovate.

Like it or not, we live in a capitalistic society where the companies' goals are to maximize profit. I do believe that a lot of US based companies are short-sighted when it comes to technology transfer, but that's another topic all together.

I don't have a solution to stagnating wages, and I'm pretty sure that our policy makers do not either. What we are seeing is an equalization of standard of living around the world. I think there are certain things policy makers can make it less painful for people in developed countries, but it only delays the inevitable.

US is not the only country that has wage stagnation. Places like Germany has had double digit unemployment for well over a decade due to a variety of factors, plus high taxation for almost everyone (regressive taxes that you hate). When the US military is inevitably required to shrink due to budgetary reasons, other democratic socialistic countries will have to ramp up their military spending to fill in the void, which means less resources will be available for welfare.

My $0.02.

Sigh. Trying to put it all off to technological advances is inaccurate, and demeaning to the enormous number of skilled people currently unemployed. It's not like there's been some paradigm shift wrt skills & work over the last 5 years, at all. The current unemployment problem extends across all skill levels, if somewhat less among those with greater skills. All of the jobs being done then are still being done today.

Education? Some of the bleakest outlooks are for recent college grads. Yeh, sure, graduates from some programs are doing better than others, but there is no real skill or educational shortage of the sort that would account for what we have today.

If it's just a matter of equalization of living standards around the world, then we'd see that the people at the top would be getting "equalized" themselves, which is obviously *not* happening. The opposite is happening.

 

[Engineer]

US is not the only country that has wage stagnation. Places like Germany has had double digit unemployment for well over a decade due to a variety of factors, plus high taxation for almost everyone (regressive taxes that you hate). When the US military is inevitably required to shrink due to budgetary reasons, other democratic socialistic countries will have to ramp up their military spending to fill in the void, which means less resources will be available for welfare.

My $0.02.

Germany's unemployment rate sinks to 6.6%...


Looks like those that have a "rise in manufacturing" and "exports" are doing better than the rest of us "decline" and "sinking" countries that rely on bubbles to fill the void.

 

[Jhhnn]

Germany's unemployment rate sinks to 6.6%...


Looks like those that have a "rise in manufacturing" and "exports" are doing better than the rest of us "decline" and "sinking" countries that rely on bubbles to fill the void.

It's also important to remember that the re-unification of Germany in 1990 placed enormous strains on the economy of what had been West Germany, and that a huge part of their unemployment issues from then to now stem from that. The collapse of the East German state created enormous unemployment in that region, something that simply couldn't be overcome in the blink of an eye... The economy of East Germany having been suppressed & looted by the former Soviets for the preceding 45 years...

 

[piasabird]

The wages did not drop! A lot of people were overpaid, and are going through an adjustment. It is all a point of view. Now they have to deal with the people they thought were peons that they looked down on. It is a rough economy for everyone.

Maybe we should import less junk from China and elsewhere.

 

[Ausm]

Germany's unemployment rate sinks to 6.6%...


Looks like those that have a "rise in manufacturing" and "exports" are doing better than the rest of us "decline" and "sinking" countries that rely on bubbles to fill the void.

Ot to the OP it's a good thing Germany was able to prop up the European Economy saving us from a possible double dip Recession.

 

[Ausm]

The wages did not drop! A lot of people were overpaid, and are going through an adjustment. It is all a point of view. Now they have to deal with the people they thought were peons that they looked down on. It is a rough economy for everyone.

Maybe we should import less junk from China and elsewhere.

I would like to see the following CEOs from Wall Street,Big oil ,Big insurance and don't forget Congress to go through a pay adjustment

 

[Engineer]

The wages did not drop! A lot of people were overpaid, and are going through an adjustment. It is all a point of view. Now they have to deal with the people they thought were peons that they looked down on. It is a rough economy for everyone.

Maybe we should import less junk from China and elsewhere.

LOL...except those at the top shipping jobs out, lowering our pay, firing us and then getting a 28% raise...just for last year along. Sure thing.

 

[Jhhnn]

LOL...except those at the top shipping jobs out, lowering our pay, firing us and then getting a 28% raise...just for last year along. Sure thing.

They can assuage their consciences, assuming that such exist, with a case of 40 year old scotch, a $5000 hooker twice a week, and a couple of ounces of pink Peruvian flake.

They'll be thinking about the working man when they get down to the short strokes, and they'll be just fine. Really.

 

[WhipperSnapper]

There are simply a lot of skills that have become obsolete and isn't needed in the economy anymore. I don't think everyone is cut out to work their butt off and make themselves more marketable to a potential employer.

Ultimately we are becoming more efficient at what we do in many industries, and those who are not cut out are let go. That's just how things will be in the future...

Could you please elaborate on what skills have become obsolete? Is the problem in your view a lack of jobs or is it that people just don't have the skills that pundits claim people need? How do you explain the fact that we have an oversupply of people in STEM fields, including PhD scientists, and that 17 million Americans who have college degrees are working in jobs that don't require a college degree?

This claim that automation and increased efficiency is to blame is red herring thrown out there to distract the sheeple from the real cause of our nation's economic malaise (mostly Global Labor Arbitrage). The claim that productivity increases and technological advance cause unemployment is bogus and defies logic. If fewer man-hours are required to produce a certain good or service, the price of that good or service should decrease resulting in job creation in other fields when people spend the money they saved in those other fields.

 

[WhipperSnapper]

So what is the average wage of americans now? used to be $15 per hour i heard years ago.

Do keep in mind that you have to adjust for inflation. $15 today is less than $15 ten years ago.

 

[WhipperSnapper]

Do you feel bad for switchboard operators who have lost their jobs? It simply isn't needed anymore. I remember a few years back reading about how back in the 50s and 60s, a lot of people in industrial states don't care for education in their next generation thinking that the auto job will be around when their kids grow up. That's the mentality most people have. Most want a stable job and do it till they retire. We can't stay on top forever if people don't innovate.

Here's the problem with innovation as the solution to our nation's economic problems. If someone discovers Next Big Thing technology tomorrow--what's to keep the jobs associated with Next Big Thing technology from being performed for less money in China, India, and Mexico? Innovation is nice, but it won't address the real problem.

I don't have a solution to stagnating wages, and I'm pretty sure that our policy makers do not either. What we are seeing is an equalization of standard of living around the world. I think there are certain things policy makers can make it less painful for people in developed countries, but it only delays the inevitable.

We could simply become a self-sufficient nation and adopt a zero-dollar trade deficit policy, which means that we're willing to trade goods produced by American labor for goods produced by foreign labor but not our capital assets (as we're doing now). We could also abolish the H-1B and L-1 visa programs and end mass immigration.

The problem is that this averaging out of the standard of living means that the small percentage of people who are wealthy will become wealthier and everyone else will become poorer because the owners of capital will be able to pay less money to their employees--they'll be able to keep a larger percentage of an employee's contribution to the act of wealth production as a result of the dramatic increase in the supply of labor available to them.

In other words, if we don't address Global Labor Arbitrage, we will transform into a third world country. It's happening right now before our very eyes.

 

[WhipperSnapper]

Thank You Obama. At least with Bush, all he did was make life miserable overseas. Obama brought it here to the states.

I wish someone would step up and start using some of that overseas oil to make life better here in the states already.

What do you think Obama has done that is worse than Bush? The economy was already in the toilet when Obama took over. Shouldn't Bush get more of the blame for being in office during the years when much of the underpinnings of our current predicament were being laid?

 

[dawp]

that's the problem with people like amdhunter, they seem to think Obama is god and should have fixed all our woes the minute he took office.

 

[Doppel]

I imagine this will continue as we continue to outsource more and more. There is just no reason to hire a low-skilled worker in the US demanding $15/hour when you can get the same level of ability from a guy in China at $2-3. As companies increase proficiency at remote management and outsourcing this will surely continue. I think the only two options are either 1) Put up with it, 2) Protectionism. It's not like the US is a tiny nation, if any country can tariff this stuff away it's a big one. There are drawbacks to both but there will always be barely-high school graduated people who need something to do. In this climate they have less to do all the time.

I saw househunters a couple nights ago. People went into a kitchen cabinet store in Germany looking to outfit their kitchen. "Is this all made in Germany?" "Yes", answered the salesman. Is that even possible in the US? Not really, if not at all.

Outsourcing works well and improves the "quality of life" (i.e. stupid consumer buying power) of well-to-do and upper middle class but the rest are probably suffering.

 

[Engineer]

Outsourcing works well and improves the "quality of life" (i.e. stupid consumer buying power) of well-to-do and upper middle class but the rest are probably suffering.

Is the "rest" the 47%? They'll be big enough to vote themselves even more in a few years. Either they can get decent paying job that don't require a college degree or they will get it other ways, whether that be working multiple jobs, voting it to themselves or stealing more of it.

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally Posted by amdhunter
Thank You Obama. At least with Bush, all he did was make life miserable overseas. Obama brought it here to the states.

I wish someone would step up and start using some of that overseas oil to make life better here in the states already.

What do you think Obama has done that is worse than Bush? The economy was already in the toilet when Obama took over. Shouldn't Bush get more of the blame for being in office during the years when much of the underpinnings of our current predicament were being laid?

Well if Obama is making people like AMD miserable here then Obama is truly a God and thank you Obama :thumbsup:

 

[Ausm]

Are you saying you give a better rimjob than me?

I let you go first

 

[Doppel]

Is the "rest" the 47%? They'll be big enough to vote themselves even more in a few years. Either they can get decent paying job that don't require a college degree or they will get it other ways, whether that be working multiple jobs, voting it to themselves or stealing more of it.

I'd say the rest are the vast majority. And they've done well until this recent recession, but if the equation was to not have had decades of more deficit spending I doubt that would be the case.

Thank heavens for lobbying and advertisements; otherwise the small minority would actually have to bow to the will of the populous. Instead they can force fed rhetoric down their throats and still get their way.</sarcasm.