Blame the Rich..

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Matt1970

Lifer
Mar 19, 2007
12,320
3
0
Instead of being greedy and keeping the money, how 'bout using it to hire someone? Edit: by 'reshoring' those jobs.

You do realize that the vast majority of wealth is re-invested back into the economy. They are not stuffing it into mattresses. When one of those greedy hoarders builds a mansion that means jobs for carpenters, plumbers, roofers, etc, etc. If they invest it into a company, that gives that company the funds to grow and expand. They buy furniture, cars, clothes, electronics, boats, jewelry, appliances.
 

Matt1970

Lifer
Mar 19, 2007
12,320
3
0
Walmart is a drop in the bucket, 99% of the same stuff in other stores is from China. Don't forget the car parts, every cell phone, tablet, PC, Mac, appliance, TV, etc.

The largest corporation in the world is a drop in the bucket?
 

dmcowen674

No Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
54,889
47
91
www.alienbabeltech.com
Originally Posted by shortylickens
You must be a kid.

I grew up in the 80's and believe me it took a LONG time for goods to slowly shift out of America and into Asia. The public had loads of opportunity to pay extra for high quality. The vast majority chose cheap & inferior.

We did this to ourselves. Also we tax the shit out of corporations and then get mad when they hire illegals and send work across the border.



We tax the shit out of corporations.. which is why 1/3 of the Fortune 500 pay 0 to negative taxes?

Looks like he grew up in the 80's and the Nintendo controller crawled up his butt and took over the brain.
 

schmuckley

Platinum Member
Aug 18, 2011
2,335
1
0
So you want the U.S. to be dominant in the crap business? There's a reason why we let the Chinese and 3rd world have the low-end consumer goods products market space - if you want to restore America's past glory in such amazing growth fields as textiles and garment assembly, knock yourself out.

Textile and garment factory workers have jobs;They in turn, consume goods and services,pay taxes, etc..

I would like to see more production in the US.
 

Michael

Elite member
Nov 19, 1999
5,435
234
106
Sitting in Suzhou right now, drinking a beer and watching a band and figuring that most in this thread have never even been to China.

Michael
 

shortylickens

No Lifer
Jul 15, 2003
80,287
17,081
136
Originally Posted by shortylickens
You must be a kid.

I grew up in the 80's and believe me it took a LONG time for goods to slowly shift out of America and into Asia. The public had loads of opportunity to pay extra for high quality. The vast majority chose cheap & inferior.

We did this to ourselves. Also we tax the shit out of corporations and then get mad when they hire illegals and send work across the border.





Looks like he grew up in the 80's and the Nintendo controller crawled up his butt and took over the brain.


There used to be a time when I expected better of you.

Sadly because of your actions over the last two years that time has passed.
 

bshole

Diamond Member
Mar 12, 2013
8,315
1,215
126
You do realize that the vast majority of wealth is re-invested back into the economy. They are not stuffing it into mattresses. When one of those greedy hoarders builds a mansion that means jobs for carpenters, plumbers, roofers, etc, etc. If they invest it into a company, that gives that company the funds to grow and expand. They buy furniture, cars, clothes, electronics, boats, jewelry, appliances.

What you don't understand and will never understand is that the MIDDLE CLASS is the great driver of national prosperity. ALL countries have a rich overlord class, the countries that are rising to the top are the ones with a thriving MIDDLE CLASS. The rich do not drive prosperity and never have. The rich in this country have declared war on the middle class and are in the active process of killing it. Unfortunately a sizeable portion of the middle class (you for instance) are cheerleading them in their efforts. Turn on the rich and turn around America.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9REdcxfie3M
 
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highland145

Lifer
Oct 12, 2009
43,973
6,338
136
What you don't understand and will never understand is that the MIDDLE CLASS is the great driver of national prosperity. ALL countries have a rich overlord class, the countries that are rising to the top are the ones with a thriving MIDDLE CLASS. The rich do not drive prosperity and never have. The rich in this country have declared war on the middle class and are in the active process of killing it. Unfortunately a sizeable portion of the middle class (you for instance) are cheerleading them in their efforts. Turn on the rich and turn around America.
Hmm, maybe we could revive the middle class and their jobs. Just a guess.


Nothing will save the US but the rebuilding of manufacturing. Nothing.



The left nor the right are working for this..... before the hacks get in.
 
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MagickMan

Diamond Member
Aug 11, 2008
7,460
3
76
What you don't understand and will never understand is that the MIDDLE CLASS is the great driver of national prosperity. ALL countries have a rich overlord class, the countries that are rising to the top are the ones with a thriving MIDDLE CLASS. The rich do not drive prosperity and never have. The rich in this country have declared war on the middle class and are in the active process of killing it. Unfortunately a sizeable portion of the middle class (you for instance) are cheerleading them in their efforts. Turn on the rich and turn around America.

Oh horse shit, "the rich" don't care about the middle class, they care about buying cool stuff and taking vacations. You're looking for an aggressive agenda where none exists.

The middle class is dying because middle class jobs are going away. Why? Because it's cheaper to buy shit from other countries. Want to see it come back? Repeal NAFTA, repeal all the other trade agreements, put a 20-25% tariff on everything imported into the USA that isn't food, and give deeper cuts to companies who build factories here. Take that plan to Obama and his cronies, see what they think. Oh wait, he's too busy farming out his own healthcare system to Ireland. Fucking politicians. :rolleyes:
 

Jeff7

Lifer
Jan 4, 2001
41,596
20
81
...
Culture and mindset go as far as all that feel-good "positive thinking" stuff that managers and such like to talk about at company meetings.
Optimists can still starve to death, and a self-confident country can still bankrupt itself. But either one will feel good about getting to where they're going.
How does this actually jibe with reality? (The last sentence in particular doesn't make any sense).
I don't know how to better describe it.
Optimists can have all the positive mindset and outlook they want, but they can't magically convert that good feeling into food in their stomachs. A country can be confident that it's implementing good policies even as its economy crumbles.
But both can continue in their delusions right up to the point where they've either starved or collapsed.



If your nation is sitting on a bubble of oil, gold and diamonds, perfect climate for tourism etc., but your culture is all about 80% of the male population getting drunk all day, casting voodoo on the tribe next door, robbing and stealing and worshiping the idiot dictator who hordes all the nation's resources, then you're not going to prosper.
No argument there.



If your nation is an otherwise worthless strip of desert, but your culture is all about programming computers and being educated and successful in the modern world, then you likely will prosper.
You often need something of value in the first place just to act as a jump-start. It certainly helps. Other factors being equal, someone starting out with $50k in the bank is likely to have an easier time of things than someone starting out with $5, and that one starting out with $50k is more likely to have a substantial competitive advantage.


You can't redistribute the more successful culture or mindset to the less successful one. Sure, the amount of resources is a nice head start, but ultimately means nothing. Israel is a tiny little country with few natural resources, surrounded by giant nations with abundant natural resources. Israel is easily the more advanced and successful and most of its neighbors are utter shitholes. The difference is Israeli culture is more about belonging to the modern world; the mindset is a more educated one. Their neighbors' cultures are more backward and less educated. All the bullshit fantasies of 'redistributing' the world's wealth wouldn't change this balance one bit.
You can level the playing field, and take measures to reduce the chance of extreme concentration of wealth. Our species has repeatedly and consistently shown that it cannot handle the concentration of power without leading to some manner of gross abuses of those who do not have power. Wealth grants power, because everyone has his price.
Measures can be taken to prevent this recurring problem. Part of the design intent of the US's system of government was to avoid concentrating power. They saw what that would lead to, and decided to attempt to curb the problem. Now we have extreme wealth serving as a fourth branch of government, which is capable of subverting the other three.




Except it's not that money has flowed out of the United States and into China, it's that money has flowed out of the poorest 99.9% of Americans into the hands of a few wealthy elite. Six members of the Walton family have as much combined wealth as 48 million American families (source). We have more dollar billionaires than ever, even as the true purchasing power for middle class Americans diminishes. If you think that's helping to make the third world less poverty-stricken, you're delusional. I don't necessarily disagree that it's important to work towards eradicating poverty on a global scale, but the current economic model of American companies taking advantage of cheap foreign labor and pocketing the profits is not accomplishing that.
Wow.....that's olden-days-monarchy wealth right there.



How exactly is a different distribution of wealth supposed to create jobs and what would these jobs be?
Don't know. How exactly is the insane concentration of wealth supposed to help out the rest of the country? We've been told that they're going to use this money to create jobs and such. Do they need to obtain the wealth of 100 million families before they do that?



You do realize that the vast majority of wealth is re-invested back into the economy. They are not stuffing it into mattresses. When one of those greedy hoarders builds a mansion that means jobs for carpenters, plumbers, roofers, etc, etc. If they invest it into a company, that gives that company the funds to grow and expand. They buy furniture, cars, clothes, electronics, boats, jewelry, appliances.
How much as a portion of their income are they investing or spending? And how much is being sat on as cash? A lower-class or middle-class person will spend a large portion of their income simply because they need to. Some might invest some of what's left into the stock market or in bonds, so it's at least out there getting something done.

A $20M mansion for someone holding onto $2 billion in assets isn't helping much at all. A middle class family will likely go into debt to secure a modest house. Many of them are then going to end up with that house being one of their most significant assets, with the other ones likely being an IRA and a 401k.




Hmm, maybe we could revive the middle class and their jobs. Just a guess.

Nothing will save the US but the rebuilding of manufacturing. Nothing.

The left nor the right are working for this..... before the hacks get in.
++
 
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Feb 4, 2009
35,862
17,403
136
Oh horse shit, "the rich" don't care about the middle class, they care about buying cool stuff and taking vacations. You're looking for an aggressive agenda where none exists.

The middle class is dying because middle class jobs are going away. Why? Because it's cheaper to buy shit from other countries. Want to see it come back? Repeal NAFTA, repeal all the other trade agreements, put a 20-25% tariff on everything imported into the USA that isn't food, and give deeper cuts to companies who build factories here. Take that plan to Obama and his cronies, see what they think. Oh wait, he's too busy farming out his own healthcare system to Ireland. Fucking politicians. :rolleyes:

This, almost all of us know this is true so why is it so difficult to get it done?
Lazy Politicians'
Maybe fear of increased prices since clothing and steel/metal production in America is gone

Here is my challenge, find a US made toaster. The professional grade one don't count. I am talking about a regular home use toaster. Try it you won't be able to find one.
 

Matt1970

Lifer
Mar 19, 2007
12,320
3
0
What you don't understand and will never understand is that the MIDDLE CLASS is the great driver of national prosperity. ALL countries have a rich overlord class, the countries that are rising to the top are the ones with a thriving MIDDLE CLASS. The rich do not drive prosperity and never have. The rich in this country have declared war on the middle class and are in the active process of killing it. Unfortunately a sizeable portion of the middle class (you for instance) are cheerleading them in their efforts. Turn on the rich and turn around America.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9REdcxfie3M

The only ones who have declared war is you:

Engineer,

In other words, my loathing for the upper class is based on cold reality. They are my and America's mortal enemy. They have corrupted our government and kicked out the foundations of our nation. Until the middle and working classes unite and actively go to war against the elites, we will continue our slide into morass and decay.
 

yllus

Elite Member & Lifer
Aug 20, 2000
20,577
432
126
Instead of being greedy and keeping the money, how 'bout using it to hire someone? Edit: by 'reshoring' those jobs.

Companies aren't hoarding cash and avoiding hiring people because they want to - they hold onto money because it's a strategic asset, to use in uncertain times to defend themselves through stock buybacks, acquisitions or just to buy time as they retool for an unforeseen threat.

I believe the U.S. is in something of a unique situation due to your taxation rules making it a problem to repatriate profits made overseas. I'm sure there are disadvantages to it, but having a tax holiday would perhaps help in this regard.

I don't understand the use of greedy as a pejorative. None of us are ascetic monks. We are all greedy, every last one of us. I see zero value in labelling others as greedy or holding something against them for acting so. Be as greedy as you like as long as you're not also fixing the rules to only work in your favour.
 

dmcowen674

No Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
54,889
47
91
www.alienbabeltech.com
Sitting in Suzhou right now, drinking a beer and watching a band and figuring that most in this thread have never even been to China.

Michael

Very true

Takes money to travel overseas. Most of us lowly Americans don't have that kind of money and never will.

I've never been off this rock. My wife and I spent $350 for passports back on 2007 thinking or a I should say hoping to at least take a cruise which would have been first time either of us to another Country off this rock.

Never got the money together and looks like never will.

We'll keep working and hoping but know the reality is against it ever happening.

This is the reality for those like us that live check to check every month with nothing left in the bank account at the end of the month after paying bills.

That is the point of threads like this.

The spirit of Americans has been broken. Only a revolution against the Corporations and the rich that run them that did to us will anything change. There is no doubt it's coming, just a matter of time.
 

Matt1970

Lifer
Mar 19, 2007
12,320
3
0
The spirit of Americans has been broken. Only a revolution against the Corporations and the rich that run them that did to us will anything change. There is no doubt it's coming, just a matter of time.

How's that revolution working out for you? You Phokus and bshole figured out a strategy yet? It will back to just you when the shit starts to hit the fan. Phokus and bshole are actually part of the 5% they despise so they will be out once they figure out it's their shit too the people will be coming after.
 

MagickMan

Diamond Member
Aug 11, 2008
7,460
3
76
Very true

Takes money to travel overseas. Most of us lowly Americans don't have that kind of money and never will.

I've never been off this rock. My wife and I spent $350 for passports back on 2007 thinking or a I should say hoping to at least take a cruise which would have been first time either of us to another Country off this rock.

Never got the money together and looks like never will.

We'll keep working and hoping but know the reality is against it ever happening.

This is the reality for those like us that live check to check every month with nothing left in the bank account at the end of the month after paying bills.

That is the point of threads like this.

The spirit of Americans has been broken. Only a revolution against the Corporations and the rich that run them that did to us will anything change. There is no doubt it's coming, just a matter of time.

The purpose is to sit on here and cry about it? Quit bitching and go out and work in your spare time. Fuck, I worked 80+ hours each week for 20 years, to help get me where I am, even collecting scrap metal and running after bounties. I have no sympathy for you. You want more money? Get off your lazy ass and do something about it. :\
 

DucatiMonster696

Diamond Member
Aug 13, 2009
4,269
1
71
NAFTA was the first pact that made offshoring jobs economically feasible.

http://www.aflcio.org/Issues/Trade/NAFTA/NAFTA-Made-Outsourcing-Easy

A Republican president could've never passed it but since a Democrat was in office it wasn't opposed like it should have been.

If you want to know why the middle class isnt prospering and why wages are stagnating you need to look at where all the jobs went.

You're forgetting the larger trade treaty that had a far greater impact then NAFTA that Clinton signed which is known as GATT (Global Agreement on Trade and Tariffs) and also the fact that Clinton granted China the coveted "Most favored nation" status which granted China greater access to US markets.
 
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MagickMan

Diamond Member
Aug 11, 2008
7,460
3
76
You're forgetting the larger trade treaty that had a far greater impact then NAFTA that Clinton sign which is known as GATT (Global Agreement on Trade and Tariffs) and also the fact that Clinton granted China the coveted "Most favored nation" status which granted China greater access to US markets.

Gotta pay back those campaign contributors somehow, right? :eek:
 

Matt1970

Lifer
Mar 19, 2007
12,320
3
0
You can level the playing field, and take measures to reduce the chance of extreme concentration of wealth. Our species has repeatedly and consistently shown that it cannot handle the concentration of power without leading to some manner of gross abuses of those who do not have power. Wealth grants power, because everyone has his price.
Measures can be taken to prevent this recurring problem. Part of the design intent of the US's system of government was to avoid concentrating power. They saw what that would lead to, and decided to attempt to curb the problem. Now we have extreme wealth serving as a fourth branch of government, which is capable of subverting the other three.




Wow.....that's olden-days-monarchy wealth right there.



Don't know. How exactly is the insane concentration of wealth supposed to help out the rest of the country? We've been told that they're going to use this money to create jobs and such. Do they need to obtain the wealth of 100 million families before they do that?



How much as a portion of their income are they investing or spending? And how much is being sat on as cash? A lower-class or middle-class person will spend a large portion of their income simply because they need to. Some might invest some of what's left into the stock market or in bonds, so it's at least out there getting something done.

A $20M mansion for someone holding onto $2 billion in assets isn't helping much at all. A middle class family will likely go into debt to secure a modest house. Many of them are then going to end up with that house being one of their most significant assets, with the other ones likely being an IRA and a 401k.




++

The only people that have a worse track record of wasting money than the rich, is the government. Now you want to let them pick the winners and losers. No thanks.
 

DucatiMonster696

Diamond Member
Aug 13, 2009
4,269
1
71
Having resources sure as hell helps though. A country with virtually no natural resources can have in incredible wealth of ingenuity. With no good resources to trade, or nothing substantial to offer to other countries though, you're still at their mercy. Your country's starving of food and water? Ah, great! A country that we can exploit for cheap labor! All they want is enough food and water to stave off an early death, and we can provide that for virtually no cost. Win-win. And the longer they can stay in the depths of poverty, the longer we can keep exploiting them.

Culture and mindset go as far as all that feel-good "positive thinking" stuff that managers and such like to talk about at company meetings.
Optimists can still starve to death, and a self-confident country can still bankrupt itself. But either one will feel good about getting to where they're going.

Africa is awash in resources, Venezuela is oil rich yet a nation like Japan, a small island nation with very little in the way of natural resource and arable land still is able to have a higher standard of living then all those nations in Africa or the oil rich nation of Venezuela. I won't throw in England of the past which basically was a resource poor nation but ended up having an empire at one time in history that stretched from one horizon to the next. Or what about Venice, Italy whose only resource was that they had a solid banking system built by a family of bankers which helped them expand that city-nation's wealth and prosperity world wide and set off a revolution of re-discovery of lost knowledge, art and culture.
 
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dmcowen674

No Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
54,889
47
91
www.alienbabeltech.com
The purpose is to sit on here and cry about it? Quit bitching and go out and work in your spare time. Fuck, I worked 80+ hours each week for 20 years, to help get me where I am, even collecting scrap metal and running after bounties. I have no sympathy for you. You want more money? Get off your lazy ass and do something about it. :\

Wow, aren't you special. Not

I've never seen a scrap metal collector that isn't a thief and Bounty Hunters that don't break the law.

So now we all know how you got ill gotten rich.

and you really expect anyone to believe you worked 80+ hours every week for 20 years? and if you really did, you've admitted you've had no life other than working. How very sad.