Blame the Rich..

[TerryMathews]

You are a hate-mongering little anklebiter, aren't you?

Hes still bitter that he almost went to prison.

 

[MagickMan]

Hes still bitter that he almost went to prison.

Was it over all the hate speech?

 

[TerryMathews]

Was it over all the hate speech?

Nope. Google is your friend.

 

[Incorruptible]

So the OP wants to blame the rich but what about NAFTA? Shouldn't blame also go on to those who buy the Chinese made crap? They are the ones who are making it worse.

 

[compuwiz1]

Hopefully very soon all the rich leave the U.S. and we get our Country back.

Then it will rise once again.

So there will be no wealth and no jobs so ya all can live off the government? That should work out really swell........

 

[Jhhnn]

Stop shopping at Walmart, when shopping somewhere else put the product back on the shelf if it says "Made in China". That's a good way to start.

You realize that the internet would cease to exist for anybody who does that, right?

It's not just about China, either.

 

[sandorski]

Have mixed feelings about this. On the one hand it has cost millions of people to lose the lifestyle their Parents had. While on the other hand it has helped 10s of millions to rise out of abject Poverty.

In a world of equivalent access to Resources/Wealth, the US would be far behind China and India. So in a way this is just a crossroad on the way to that state. That's a rather rose coloured view of reality though. Especially when history shows how often a people choose to Exploit for the few rather than Cooperate for the many.

As China grows in power and influence, my hope is they don't choose to follow the US or British down the path of dominant Super Power status, projecting their Will and Control through any means necessary. Rather I would hope that we have reached a state of sophistication to see that continued exploitation of others is not just Immoral, but that it is simply not in anyone's Self Interest.

We have reached a point in History where Nationalism is no longer the highest form of Community. Perhaps we have not fully realized or are not quite ready yet for it, but the next stage is a Global Community. Already it exists, albeit as an infant, but increasingly Nationalism fails to address daily concerns and in fact exacerbates problems faced by the average person.

It's time to look to the future and quit holding on to the past. It's time to work towards making the Nation less and making the Planet more.

 

[compuwiz1]

Chrysler is already making crap and it has nothing to do with the Chinese.

There is no longer a "Big 3". Now Chrysler is wholly owned by Fiat.

 

[TerryMathews]

Have mixed feelings about this. On the one hand it has cost millions of people to lose the lifestyle their Parents had. While on the other hand it has helped 10s of millions to rise out of abject Poverty.

In a world of equivalent access to Resources/Wealth, the US would be far behind China and India. So in a way this is just a crossroad on the way to that state. That's a rather rose coloured view of reality though. Especially when history shows how often a people choose to Exploit for the few rather than Cooperate for the many.

As China grows in power and influence, my hope is they don't choose to follow the US or British down the path of dominant Super Power status, projecting their Will and Control through any means necessary. Rather I would hope that we have reached a state of sophistication to see that continued exploitation of others is not just Immoral, but that it is simply not in anyone's Self Interest.

We have reached a point in History where Nationalism is no longer the highest form of Community. Perhaps we have not fully realized or are not quite ready yet for it, but the next stage is a Global Community. Already it exists, albeit as an infant, but increasingly Nationalism fails to address daily concerns and in fact exacerbates problems faced by the average person.

It's time to look to the future and quit holding on to the past. It's time to work towards making the Nation less and making the Planet more.

Fuck that noise. The world doesn't have the right to "equal access" of our resources any more than I have the right to "equal access" your checking account.

Which, by the way, I want to buy another 770 for SLI. Pm me your PayPal account plz.

 

[Jhhnn]

I like how you're like "Eh, you're point I can't argue with but this is still the Republicans fault more than anyone else."

Shows your true colors. :thumbsdown:

Special interests and Congress/President having no ethics and no repercussions for their bad acts are destroying what little is left of the American dream.

Heh. Your reply exemplifies what I offered. The broad middle class & the American Dream were only possible when American capitalists hired American workers in sufficient numbers at good wages to spread the money around. They no longer do that, nor likely will they ever again in our lifetimes. The share of income that moved from the lower 60% to the top 1% is enormous, and will be difficult to reverse. Until that's done or some other way of looking at it all is broadly accepted, you're right, the American Dream is fading fast for younger Americans.

Like this-

http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2011/02/income-inequality-in-america-chart-graph

That's where trickle down supply side Reaganomics have led us. That's the truth. Would you suggest harder & deeper, or perhaps something else?

 

[Zaap]

Forget even this notion of sharing everyone's resources; the reality of this fucked up world is that there are tons of people living in nations with a lion's share of the world's resources (oil, diamonds, gems, precious metals, sought after commodities, food, tourism, great climate, etc. etc.) who are dirt fucking poor.

People act like the US and the developed world is all gold paved streets shaded under diamond trees, with oil oozing from the ground everywhere and resources raining from the sky. Meanwhile, the rest of the world is all just a desert or an ice cave with absolutely nothing of value in it.

We're not rich just because of our natural resources and others in the world aren't poor because they lack natural resources- it's a difference in culture and mindset. You can't redistribute those things.

Although, granted a society can lose the culture and mindset that understands how to support itself, and sadly, we're well on our way to doing just that.

 

[sandorski]

Fuck that noise. The world doesn't have the right to "equal access" of our resources any more than I have the right to "equal access" your checking account.

Which, by the way, I want to buy another 770 for SLI. Pm me your PayPal account plz.

Your post isn't making any sense. What Resources are being taken from you? On that metric, the US would have far less than it currently has, especially in the area of Energy.

 

[TerryMathews]

Your post isn't making any sense. What Resources are being taken from you? On that metric, the US would have far less than it currently has, especially in the area of Energy.

You recognize there is a difference between buying and taking right?

 

[sandorski]

You recognize there is a difference between buying and taking right?

Explain your previous post. As far as I can tell buying/taking is moot.

 

[Jeff7]

Heh. Your reply exemplifies what I offered. The broad middle class & the American Dream were only possible when American capitalists hired American workers in sufficient numbers at good wages to spread the money around. They no longer do that, nor likely will they ever again in our lifetimes. The share of income that moved from the lower 60% to the top 1% is enormous, and will be difficult to reverse. Until that's done or some other way of looking at it all is broadly accepted, you're right, the American Dream is fading fast for younger Americans.

Like this-

http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2011/02/income-inequality-in-america-chart-graph

That's where trickle down supply side Reaganomics have led us. That's the truth. Would you suggest harder & deeper, or perhaps something else?

And some would say that that is the American Dream, and is worth defending at any cost: Once you get yourself on the path to extreme wealth, you deserve all of it. Screw everyone else, I've got mine.

It astonishes me that lower or middle class people get so defensive about what's done to the extremely wealthy in terms of taxation or restrictions or anything. Many of them have made it abundantly clear that they don't give a damn about the lower classes. They'll go to great lengths to ensure that they don't have to be bothered with even mingling with such people, and to ensure that they can retain every last dollar they can, done with the desperation of a starving person about to lose their final meal.

Forget even this notion of sharing everyone's resources; the reality of this fucked up world is that there are tons of people living in nations with a lion's share of the world's resources (oil, diamonds, gems, precious metals, sought after commodities, food, tourism, great climate, etc. etc.) who are dirt fucking poor.

People act like the US and the developed world is all gold paved streets shaded under diamond trees, with oil oozing from the ground everywhere and resources raining from the sky. Meanwhile, the rest of the world is all just a desert or an ice cave with absolutely nothing of value in it.

We're not rich just because of our natural resources and others in the world aren't poor because they lack natural resources- it's a difference in culture and mindset. You can't redistribute those things.

Although, granted a society can lose the culture and mindset that understands how to support itself, and sadly, we're well on our way to doing just that.

Having resources sure as hell helps though. A country with virtually no natural resources can have in incredible wealth of ingenuity. With no good resources to trade, or nothing substantial to offer to other countries though, you're still at their mercy. Your country's starving of food and water? Ah, great! A country that we can exploit for cheap labor! All they want is enough food and water to stave off an early death, and we can provide that for virtually no cost. Win-win. And the longer they can stay in the depths of poverty, the longer we can keep exploiting them.

Culture and mindset go as far as all that feel-good "positive thinking" stuff that managers and such like to talk about at company meetings.
Optimists can still starve to death, and a self-confident country can still bankrupt itself. But either one will feel good about getting to where they're going.

 

[Zaap]

Culture and mindset go as far as all that feel-good "positive thinking" stuff that managers and such like to talk about at company meetings.
Optimists can still starve to death, and a self-confident country can still bankrupt itself. But either one will feel good about getting to where they're going.

How does this actually jibe with reality? (The last sentence in particular doesn't make any sense).

If your nation is sitting on a bubble of oil, gold and diamonds, perfect climate for tourism etc., but your culture is all about 80% of the male population getting drunk all day, casting voodoo on the tribe next door, robbing and stealing and worshiping the idiot dictator who hordes all the nation's resources, then you're not going to prosper.

If your nation is an otherwise worthless strip of desert, but your culture is all about programming computers and being educated and successful in the modern world, then you likely will prosper.

You can't redistribute the more successful culture or mindset to the less successful one. Sure, the amount of resources is a nice head start, but ultimately means nothing. Israel is a tiny little country with few natural resources, surrounded by giant nations with abundant natural resources. Israel is easily the more advanced and successful and most of its neighbors are utter shitholes. The difference is Israeli culture is more about belonging to the modern world; the mindset is a more educated one. Their neighbors' cultures are more backward and less educated. All the bullshit fantasies of 'redistributing' the world's wealth wouldn't change this balance one bit.

 

[shadow9d9]

You must be a kid.

I grew up in the 80's and believe me it took a LONG time for goods to slowly shift out of America and into Asia. The public had loads of opportunity to pay extra for high quality. The vast majority chose cheap & inferior.

We did this to ourselves. Also we tax the shit out of corporations and then get mad when they hire illegals and send work across the border.

We tax the shit out of corporations.. which is why 1/3 of the Fortune 500 pay 0 to negative taxes?

 

[Michael]

The way the trade statistics are measured, China imports a whole bunch of high value parts, assembles them and then ships it out. China gets credit for the fully assembled part as if everything was made in China.

The measure is always the same, so this does show the rise of China, but you need to look at a lot of different statistics to see the real picture. China has a vastly larger population, if they had not wasted decades on a failed communist system this report would have happened a long time ago.

Michael

 

[Atomic Playboy]

Have mixed feelings about this. On the one hand it has cost millions of people to lose the lifestyle their Parents had. While on the other hand it has helped 10s of millions to rise out of abject Poverty.

In a world of equivalent access to Resources/Wealth, the US would be far behind China and India. So in a way this is just a crossroad on the way to that state. That's a rather rose coloured view of reality though. Especially when history shows how often a people choose to Exploit for the few rather than Cooperate for the many.

As China grows in power and influence, my hope is they don't choose to follow the US or British down the path of dominant Super Power status, projecting their Will and Control through any means necessary. Rather I would hope that we have reached a state of sophistication to see that continued exploitation of others is not just Immoral, but that it is simply not in anyone's Self Interest.

We have reached a point in History where Nationalism is no longer the highest form of Community. Perhaps we have not fully realized or are not quite ready yet for it, but the next stage is a Global Community. Already it exists, albeit as an infant, but increasingly Nationalism fails to address daily concerns and in fact exacerbates problems faced by the average person.

It's time to look to the future and quit holding on to the past. It's time to work towards making the Nation less and making the Planet more.

Except it's not that money has flowed out of the United States and into China, it's that money has flowed out of the poorest 99.9% of Americans into the hands of a few wealthy elite. Six members of the Walton family have as much combined wealth as 48 million American families (source). We have more dollar billionaires than ever, even as the true purchasing power for middle class Americans diminishes. If you think that's helping to make the third world less poverty-stricken, you're delusional. I don't necessarily disagree that it's important to work towards eradicating poverty on a global scale, but the current economic model of American companies taking advantage of cheap foreign labor and pocketing the profits is not accomplishing that.

 

[sandorski]

Except it's not that money has flowed out of the United States and into China, it's that money has flowed out of the poorest 99.9% of Americans into the hands of a few wealthy elite. Six members of the Walton family have as much combined wealth as 48 million American families (source). We have more dollar billionaires than ever, even as the true purchasing power for middle class Americans diminishes. If you think that's helping to make the third world less poverty-stricken, you're delusional. I don't necessarily disagree that it's important to work towards eradicating poverty on a global scale, but the current economic model of American companies taking advantage of cheap foreign labor and pocketing the profits is not accomplishing that.

The Wealth produced by the Job Transfer is what I was focussed on. I agree that the accumulation of Wealth within the US Economy is a problem and a significant part of what's going on. However, the issue with the Middle and Lower Class is the decline in good paying Jobs. That problem could be largely rectified through a different distribution of generated Wealth, but there's a lot of political opposition to that kind of thing.

 

[Zorkorist]

Blame Government.

They are the ones spending money they don't have.

They are the ones expressing authority over each of us, that they don't deserve.

-John

 

[manimal]

There is no longer a "Big 3". Now Chrysler is wholly owned by Fiat.

Does it really make that much of a difference? The cars are mostly built here.

 

[Matt1970]

The Wealth produced by the Job Transfer is what I was focussed on. I agree that the accumulation of Wealth within the US Economy is a problem and a significant part of what's going on. However, the issue with the Middle and Lower Class is the decline in good paying Jobs. That problem could be largely rectified through a different distribution of generated Wealth, but there's a lot of political opposition to that kind of thing.

How exactly is a different distribution of wealth supposed to create jobs and what would these jobs be?

 

[bradly1101]

Stop shopping at Walmart, when shopping somewhere else put the product back on the shelf if it says "Made in China". That's a good way to start.

Walmart is a drop in the bucket, 99% of the same stuff in other stores is from China. Don't forget the car parts, every cell phone, tablet, PC, Mac, appliance, TV, etc.

 

[bradly1101]

How exactly is a different distribution of wealth supposed to create jobs and what would these jobs be?

Instead of being greedy and keeping the money, how 'bout using it to hire someone? Edit: by 'reshoring' those jobs.