Biology is making me doubt evolution

[jonks]

Originally posted by: amoeba
Here is my main problem with intelligent design argument of "everything is too complex to be the result of randomness, it must have been designed that way."

If we take that as fact, that the world is very complex and thus could only be designed by an intelligent being, then it stands to reason that this intelligent being is even more complex than the world that he designed.

I then start asking for the origins of this intelligent being, and I get the response of "the intelligent creator has always existed". If it can be accepted as fact that the intelligent creator, who is more complex than the system that he designed has always existed, then why is it so hard to comprehend that the system has always existed instead of being created?

In other words, intelligent design just changes the question from where did we come from to where did god come from, and doesn't really answer much.

Ha, why haven't I heard this simple argument before? I like it.

 

[Vette73]

Originally posted by: Xylitol

Originally posted by: sierrita

Originally posted by: Xylitol


My 16 year old brain is probably quicker than yours

Perhaps, but you're not very convincing today.

I'm trying to make a point outside of religion, yet people like marlin like changing my quotes so they look religious. I obviously don't have any proof since it was just a simple question asking if people's minds were turned away from evolution due to biology class. I was not asking for more information on whether or not religion is stupid, god is stupid, evolution is stupid, etc.

Originally posted by: Marlin1975

Originally posted by: Xylitol
I don't fear him cause he loves me.
I believe in God and Jesus and know that I'm going to be saved. Although I'm not perfect and am not even close to being perfect, I'm still
going to go to heaven for believing in Jesus

Yep seems you went into the class with a open mind. :roll:

What? I did a copy and paste of YOUR quote. I did not change a thing.

Its not hard just search "Xylitol God" and anybody can see you are very biased and went into your "class" just trying to make your biased belief fit what you want.

 

[BeauJangles]

Originally posted by: Xylitol

Originally posted by: AMDZen
ATOT makes me doubt evolution, posts like this make me doubt human intelligence as a whole.

because it's hard for me to fathom how something so complex could be made from a single cell? I haven't taken any college courses with more in depth material on proof of evolution, and that is why I specifically stated HIGH SCHOOL biology

We already know that our mitochondria were actually once independent organisms that were eventually absorbed by our cells and now work in a symbiotic fashion with our cells. From there it really isn't hard to picture that over billions of years cells 'learned' to cooperate and eventually specialize into the different organs / tissues / whatever.

 

[amoeba]

Xylitol, perhaps it would help if you clarified what your position really is.

from what I gather, your position seems to be "modern animals are too complex to have evolved from single cell organisms".

 

[Stuxnet]

Originally posted by: Xylitol
Yea well that's my opinion

Which is based on... what?

No one is attacking your right to an opinion. In the end, that's all we all have - opinions. Our thoughts on our existence are merely opinions we've formed based on so-called facts we've been taught.

However, this does not mean that all opinions are created equal. It seems that your opinion is based on nothing more than "we're too complex to have evolved from a single cell". People have given you quite a bit of evidence to the contrary, but you've ignored it and cast it aside - your only defense being "this is your opinion."

If you're going to start a discussion on this, be prepared for people to give you THEIR opinions and present you with their EVIDENCE. You, however, have presented no evidence.

Assuming you go to college, and assuming you major in the arts and sciences, you'll be learning quite a bit more about biology, our DNA, evolution, etc. You don't have to make up your mind today. Just keep your mind open to the possibilities.

 

[jonks]

Originally posted by: jbourne77

Originally posted by: Xylitol
Yea well that's my opinion

Which is based on... what?

No one is attacking your right to an opinion. In the end, that's all we all have - opinions. Our thoughts on our existence are merely opinions we've formed based on so-called facts we've been taught.

However, this does not mean that all opinions are created equal. It seems that your opinion is based on nothing more than "we're too complex to have evolved from a single cell". People have given you quite a bit of evidence to the contrary, but you've ignored it and cast it aside - your only defense being "this is your opinion."

If you're going to start a discussion on this, be prepared for people to give you THEIR opinions and present you with their EVIDENCE. You, however, have presented no evidence.

Assuming you go to college, and assuming you major in the arts and sciences, you'll be learning quite a bit more about biology, our DNA, evolution, etc. You don't have to make up your mind today. Just keep your mind open to the possibilities.

NO! Choose now or be forever damned!

 

[Iron Woode]

I have decided to torture myself by watching a bunch of pro-creationism videos on Youtube.

The only conclusion I can draw is: Creationists never bothered to take any biology, physics or chemistry classes. And failed a course on common sense and logic.

After watching 5 of these videos, I felt like I was bukaked with stupid.

Another interesting thing was how many of these videos have the comments turned off. I wonder why? Could it have something to do with not wanting to hear anything other than your own point of view?

here is a prime example of this stuff:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v...m4I5lw&feature=related

and

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v...aXAJb0&feature=related

A number of creationists actually blame Darwin directly, for the Holocaust of Jews during WWII.

😕

 

[Kev]

Originally posted by: Xylitol
I'm taking bio junior year (my school does physics freshman year) and all this stuff involving the immune system, nervous system, and circulatory system is making me doubt evolution even more.

It's just so hard to believe that all these ccmplex funnctions started with a single cell
I mean - different nerve signals = seeing, hearing, REMEMBERING?

The teacher does not believe in a creator (he believes in macroevolution), but even though he teaches only evolution, it's hard for me to believe


This IS NOT A RELIGION THREAD

Edit: I don't know how many times I have to say that I do not want to talk about if a God made everything. I just want to say that it's so hard for me to believe in evolution due to the complexity (say as much as you want about billions of years but that's my reasoning - regardless of whether or not I'm ignorant)

I don't know why ATOT has to turn everything about evolution to why God doesn't exist. Or why me disliking people who love Americans dying turns into people getting murdered and people dying as one and the same.

Your thinking is inherently flawed, because if you believe it is impossible that complex organisms evolved from nothing, then it should also be impossible for a creator to just poof into existence.

 

[randay]

xylitol, do you realise that you started life as a single cell? how did you go from a single egg cell to what you are now?

 

[Xylitol]

Originally posted by: randay
xylitol, do you realise that you started life as a single cell? how did you go from a single egg cell to what you are now?

that's not evolution... that's cell division

 

[PlasmaBomb]

Clarification on what you do and do not believe would be helpful...

 

[jonks]

Originally posted by: randay
xylitol, do you realise that you started life as a single cell? how did you go from a single egg cell to what you are now?

Yeah, but he had TWO creators. You're only proving his point!

 

[amoeba]

Originally posted by: Xylitol

Originally posted by: randay
xylitol, do you realise that you started life as a single cell? how did you go from a single egg cell to what you are now?

that's not evolution... that's cell division

Right so his point is how can you so easily believe in cell division yet not believe in evolution? when one happens in a few months while the other happens in a few billion years?

Doesn't it stand to reason that the process that takes a few billion years would have to be infinitely more complex?

 

[Xylitol]

Originally posted by: amoeba

Originally posted by: Xylitol

Originally posted by: randay
xylitol, do you realise that you started life as a single cell? how did you go from a single egg cell to what you are now?

that's not evolution... that's cell division

Right so his point is how can you so easily believe in cell division yet not believe in evolution? when one happens in a few months while the other happens in a few billion years?

Doesn't it stand to reason that the process that takes a few billion years would have to be infinitely more complex?

I can believe in cell division because that's not species changing from a singe bacteria to a human walking on 2 legs

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: StormRider
Why are evolution and "intelligent design" mutually exclusive? To me, using the principles of evolution to allow a system to change according to external stimuli is a really elegant design. I'm more impressed by a "God" that uses evolution in his design than with a "God" that requires himself to periodically intervene in the system to help things move along.

Let's take a game designer as an example. Game Designer #1 designs a game where the enemy bots react in a fixed hard-coded way to a player. As players improve, he must periodically stop the game and make hard coded fixes to the enemy bots so they present a better challenge.

Game Designer #2 uses evolutionary principles to model the behavior of enemy bots. He encodes the behavior as a string of bits. Those enemy bots that survive the longest or makes the most kills are deemed the "fittest". He uses the string of bits describing the behavior from those bots and produces offspring from them by mixing up the bits from two parents. The offspring will have a combination of behavior from the two parents and hopefully will become a better and more challenging enemy bot. Game Designer #2 never has to stop the game and recode because he got it right the first time. The game's enemy bots evolve as the game is played with no intervention from Game Designer #2.

Which designer is more impressive? And noticed how the game has still been designed but if you analyze how things work, it would appear that evolution is how things work. So, to me, "intelligent design" and evolution are not mutually exclusive. They can co-exist.

This is a good post, and I would agree with you completely except for the fact that ID has insisted on clinging to the GD#1 idea, i.e. the Creationist "personal God" who intervenes and changes things along the way.

One of the major challenges in this whole argument IMO is the unscientific view of the nature of time that is always brought into it, and which the Creationists should know better. And I mean seriously, what does it matter if it was 6,000 or 13 billion years to an eternal omniscient God? Why would a being who lives outside time need to interfere within time? And so forth.

 

[amoeba]

Originally posted by: Xylitol

Originally posted by: amoeba

Originally posted by: Xylitol

Originally posted by: randay
xylitol, do you realise that you started life as a single cell? how did you go from a single egg cell to what you are now?

that's not evolution... that's cell division

Right so his point is how can you so easily believe in cell division yet not believe in evolution? when one happens in a few months while the other happens in a few billion years?

Doesn't it stand to reason that the process that takes a few billion years would have to be infinitely more complex?

I can believe in cell division because that's not species changing from a singe bacteria to a human walking on 2 legs

you better believe there is a stew of organic compounds coming out of me tonight.

sorry, just had to.

 

[FleshLight]

It's 2:07 PM. Shouldn't you be in 5th period or something?

 

[kstu]

Originally posted by: amoeba
Xylitol, perhaps it would help if you clarified what your position really is.

from what I gather, your position seems to be "modern animals are too complex to have evolved from single cell organisms".

Answer this please...

 

[Xylitol]

Originally posted by: FleshLight
It's 2:07 PM. Shouldn't you be in 5th period or something?

no we got computers and instead of working, I just chat with friends and post on ATOT
I still do well in my classes - I just use peripheral hearing if that makes any sense

 

[Xylitol]

Originally posted by: kstu

Originally posted by: amoeba
Xylitol, perhaps it would help if you clarified what your position really is.

from what I gather, your position seems to be "modern animals are too complex to have evolved from single cell organisms".

Answer this please...

That is my position

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: Xylitol

Originally posted by: AMDZen
ATOT makes me doubt evolution, posts like this make me doubt human intelligence as a whole.

because it's hard for me to fathom how something so complex could be made from a single cell? I haven't taken any college courses with more in depth material on proof of evolution, and that is why I specifically stated HIGH SCHOOL biology

Uh... a single cell is a highly complex thing itself. There are something like 10 trillion atoms in a single average human cell. And then a very similar number of cells in the human body. And yet you're arguing the one as simple and the other as too complex.
This is the mistake in your argument.

 

[amoeba]

why don't you explain to us what you think the theory of evolution is saying? To make sure that you aren't misunderstanding the theory in question.

 

[Xylitol]

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: Xylitol

Originally posted by: AMDZen
ATOT makes me doubt evolution, posts like this make me doubt human intelligence as a whole.

because it's hard for me to fathom how something so complex could be made from a single cell? I haven't taken any college courses with more in depth material on proof of evolution, and that is why I specifically stated HIGH SCHOOL biology

Uh... a single cell is a highly complex thing itself. There are something like 10 trillion atoms in a single average human cell. And then a very similar number of cells in the human body. And yet you're arguing the one as simple and the other as too complex.
This is the mistake in your argument.

I never said one cell is simple. I believe that both are very complex and did not evolve from anything else / created from anything else on a huge level (ie: stew of organic compounds -> proteins -> cells?)

 

[Xylitol]

Originally posted by: Xylitol

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: Xylitol

Originally posted by: AMDZen
ATOT makes me doubt evolution, posts like this make me doubt human intelligence as a whole.

because it's hard for me to fathom how something so complex could be made from a single cell? I haven't taken any college courses with more in depth material on proof of evolution, and that is why I specifically stated HIGH SCHOOL biology

Uh... a single cell is a highly complex thing itself. There are something like 10 trillion atoms in a single average human cell. And then a very similar number of cells in the human body. And yet you're arguing the one as simple and the other as too complex.
This is the mistake in your argument.

I never said one cell is simple. I believe that both are very complex
It's hard to believe that a stew of organic compounds eventually became a cell that could survive on its own and reproduce

 

[Juddog]

Originally posted by: Xylitol

Originally posted by: Xylitol

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: Xylitol

Originally posted by: AMDZen
ATOT makes me doubt evolution, posts like this make me doubt human intelligence as a whole.

because it's hard for me to fathom how something so complex could be made from a single cell? I haven't taken any college courses with more in depth material on proof of evolution, and that is why I specifically stated HIGH SCHOOL biology

Uh... a single cell is a highly complex thing itself. There are something like 10 trillion atoms in a single average human cell. And then a very similar number of cells in the human body. And yet you're arguing the one as simple and the other as too complex.
This is the mistake in your argument.

I never said one cell is simple. I believe that both are very complex
It's hard to believe that a stew of organic compounds eventually became a cell that could survive on its own and reproduce

You're not talking about evolution at that point, you're talking about abiogenesis, which is a whole other ball game. Evolution only covers after the cell was initially formed, and where it went from there.