Bio-weapons lab found

[CaptnKirk]

No, again you spend hours on line providing links to support your spin, no matter what the subject.
Carefully filtered to provide support of only your position.

I do not feel it is incumbent upon me to provide links to promote my position,
as I actually do not heavily take one side or the other on a position.

I provide links to where I find a manipulation of data by a government that looks to be deceiving it's people.'
I try to stimulate thought to where someone may actually have a fresh idea.
(and not to just type in the latest slanted Pro-Bush or FOX supported propaganda).

I have never said whether I was Pro of Anti Bush, nor Pro or Anti War.
I am definitly Pro our Country, but there is a limit to wrongness by a political agenda.
And we are racing over the edge into the abyss, and don't seem to be able to put our feet on the brake pedal.

 

[rahvin]

Originally posted by: CaptnKirk
There are about 86,000 listings for Mobile Agricultural Laboratories

Pick one and see which supports your theory.

This is a response to all those who responded to me, for brevity I quoted only one post.

The link in the quote above links to various agriculture testing labratories, of which there are not 86,000 produced. Based on a quick skim of the list there are less than 6. In fact there could be lots of labratories with testing equipment for various purposes that would be mobile. The difference between these and what was discovered in Iraq was that the Labratory found in Iraq is not a Lab, it's a production facility. Lab's are focused on testing, not the fullscale production of biological agents. In fact in the link above I challenge you to find a use for large scale biological cookers in any benine labratory environment.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Story/0,2763,951469,00.html

Mr Cambone said the trailer was captured on an Iraqi tank transporter at a Kurdish checkpoint in northern Iraq on April 19, 10 days after Baghdad fell. Inside, investigators found a fermenter used for growing bacteria and a system to prevent waste gases from the fermentation escaping, which might allow the the laboratory to be detected.

"So while some of the equipment on the trailer could have been used for purposes other than biological weapons agent production, US and UK technical experts have concluded that the unit does not appear to perform any function beyond what the defector said it was for, which was the pro duction of biological agents," Mr Cambone said.

So we have a trailer full of Biological cookers (devices designed for the mass production of microbiological agents such as in the benine production of insulin) being transported on a millitary vehicle in northern Iraq. A realist would assume that a mobile factory for mass production of biological agents wouldn't have ANY benine purpose. The benine purposes that cookers like this would be used for are not condusive to mobile production. If you are growing insulin bacteria you want them in a factory so you can isolate the product after production. There is NO legitimate use for a mobile factory producing biological agents. Skeptacism is NOT realism, realism is acceptance that in view of a situation where there is no obvious reason for this biological production to be mobile other than illegitimate reasons.

SnapIt attempted to analogize the finding of a fired weapon and assuming a murder had taken place. A more appropriate analogy would be walking in a room, finding new carpet and paint, a fired weapon, a missing person and the guy found with the gun was a convicted murder. Is it enough to convict him? Nope, but it's enough that people who think realistically can make assumptions about what did occur until evidence to the contrary is found.

 

[Alistar7]

A quick review of your posts definitely proves your bias against the Bush administration.

I have not and will not try to spin anything, If I am wrong, I will glady admit so, there has not been one instance of POSSIBLE WMD found that once PROVEN to be harmless that I have continued to try to spin as still a legitimate find.

I will always SPECUALTE based on what is known, as most intelligent people including yourself will do. Part of what is known is Saddam's penchant for WMD and his willingness to use them, also his noncompliance with the UN. It is hard to blame the UN for their failure given they were dependent on his cooperation.

 

[Alistar7]

I am still hoping thay what we have been told by some Iraqis is true,they were all destroyed just before the war. This is far better than having them handed out to anyone.

They did find documents where a "holy warrior" offered the sale of nuclear material to Sadddam in 2001, the same information suggets that while Iraq apparently declined due to UN sanctions regarding the material, the offer was left open to be pursued at a more "opportune" time.

 

[ConclamoLudus]

They had pictures all over NBC last night.

 

[CaptnKirk]

The pictures that were all over the news programs last night were the same pictures of the
aledged Mobile Bio-Lab that were shown 3 - 4 weeks ago, and the same sketches that
Colin Powell showed to the UN Security council 4 months or more ago.
It is not NEW as in NEWS, it's a recycle at the direction of 'Government Officials'

They have had it, the Bio-Lab, in their possion since before April 19th and it has tested clean.
Now they want to take it apart and see if the cleaning missed a trace of anything.

I am expecting to be shown the 500,000 tons of ready to go WMD that was sitting
ready to be placed on my doorstep along with the delivery system that was so
obviously everywhere that they couldn't be missed - they were everywhere, they said so.
Cleaned, disposed, de-activated, destroyed dosen't count - only genuine threat need apply.

The scientists and other officials have all said they were disposed of.
None have said that now that Saddam is out of power, here's a map to Ali-Babba's hidden cave
and the password is "Open-Sesame" - they would have more to gain from us in their favor if they did.
All have said that before the first strike of the war they were gone.
If we wanted to find the stuff active, we should have struck weeks earlier.

 

[Fausto]

I'll chime in here since this "weapons lab" has been the subject of much debate here at the CDC.

The prevailing opinion is that this is not a mobile biological weapons lab. Reason being that the construction is such that avoiding contamination of whatever it is you were trying to culture would be almost impossible. Keeping your cultures clean becomes exponentially more difficult as the culture gets bigger. For a bioreactor this big, even under the most carefully controlled conditions, contamination is still a distinct possibility. This thing isn't even somewhat sealed to the elements.

If it IS an Iraqi attempt at a mobile bioweapons lab, they are clearly too incompetent as scientist to ever be any kind of threat to us. They'd be lucky to grow mold in that thing.

Photo of suspected mobile lab.

 

[Fencer128]

Originally posted by: Fausto1
I'll chime in here since this "weapons lab" has been the subject of much debate here at the CDC.

The prevailing opinion is that this is not a mobile biological weapons lab. Reason being that the construction is such that avoiding contamination of whatever it is you were trying to culture would be almost impossible. Keeping your cultures clean becomes exponentially more difficult as the culture gets bigger. For a bioreactor this big, even under the most carefully controlled conditions, contamination is still a distinct possibility. This thing isn't even somewhat sealed to the elements.

If it IS an Iraqi attempt at a mobile bioweapons lab, they are clearly too incompetent as scientist to ever be any kind of threat to us. They'd be lucky to grow mold in that thing.

Photo of suspected mobile lab.

Yay! A photo! (athough it would have been nicer if it showed the entire trailer minus covering - and with some detailed shots too).

Cheers,

Andy

 

[SuperTool]

These aren't UN inspectors, so I don't know how credible they are, since they report to Dubya, and he's been trying to prove WMD link for a year now.

 

[Fausto]

Originally posted by: SuperTool
These aren't UN inspectors, so I don't know how credible they are, since they report to Dubya, and he's been trying to prove WMD link for a year now.

Either way. If that's a mobile bioweapons lab, it's a really, really crappy one.

 

[Fencer128]

Originally posted by: SuperTool
These aren't UN inspectors, so I don't know how credible they are, since they report to Dubya, and he's been trying to prove WMD link for a year now.

I understand your view. I'm just happy that I can prove to myself that this thing actually exists.

Cheers,

Andy

 

[phillyTIM]

Originally posted by: SuperTool
These aren't UN inspectors, so I don't know how credible they are, since they report to Dubya, and he's been trying to prove WMD link for a year now.

Thats certainly a key issue that should not be forgotten.

 

[ConclamoLudus]

Originally posted by: phillyTIM

Originally posted by: SuperTool
These aren't UN inspectors, so I don't know how credible they are, since they report to Dubya, and he's been trying to prove WMD link for a year now.

Thats certainly a key issue that should not be forgotten.

The entire US military reports to Dubya should we not believe anything they do? I agree its important for other sources to come in but if you think the UN inspectors are any less corruptable of people, then I would say be careful of what brush you're painting people with.

 

[CaptnKirk]

Alistair-7 - How do we know you didn't write this ?

We were watching the whole time

 

[dabuddha]

Originally posted by: ConclamoLudus

Originally posted by: phillyTIM

Originally posted by: SuperTool
These aren't UN inspectors, so I don't know how credible they are, since they report to Dubya, and he's been trying to prove WMD link for a year now.

Thats certainly a key issue that should not be forgotten.

The entire US military reports to Dubya should we not believe anything they do? I agree its important for other sources to come in but if you think the UN inspectors are any less corruptable of people, then I would say be careful of what brush you're painting people with.

Agreed.

 

[CaptnKirk]

Comprehensive report on Iraq's weapons program, not necessarily a liberal view.

Mention and projected analysis of Mobile Biological Laboratories begins on page 12.
If you take time to read it, it says quite a lot. It is a study over a long span of time.

 

[LunarRay]

Why don't we use our military to invade Columbia and rid that place of all the WMD cocaine and heroin that is poisoning this country directly every day... or is that stuff not considered destructive. They can find lots of BIO labs and Chem labs and all sorts of bad guys...
I know ..... no oil...

 

[CaptnKirk]

If we tried to invade Columbia, wouldn't that bring us back to the Iran-Contra thing that we did under Reagan
when Ollie North and friends got involved in drug deals, money laundering, and weapons movement for Iran and Columbis,
just like back in the good old days ?
-We armed Saddam at the same time so Iran and Iraq could kill each other.
We just didn't want either side to survive.

 

[phillyTIM]

Originally posted by: ConclamoLudus
[
The entire US military reports to Dubya should we not believe anything they do? I agree its important for other sources to come in but if you think the UN inspectors are any less corruptable of people, then I would say be careful of what brush you're painting people with.

Well while you are on your noble soapbox, let me pop your bubble by saying that at least the mix of various (UN/US) inspectors would help keep each other in check--that's key. I'm all for a coalition of inspectors, just not when it's a sole coalition of US inspectors whose boss is the one searching for justification for his invasion (now 2 months later, and still nothing found).

 

[charrison]

Originally posted by: Fausto1
I'll chime in here since this "weapons lab" has been the subject of much debate here at the CDC.

The prevailing opinion is that this is not a mobile biological weapons lab. Reason being that the construction is such that avoiding contamination of whatever it is you were trying to culture would be almost impossible. Keeping your cultures clean becomes exponentially more difficult as the culture gets bigger. For a bioreactor this big, even under the most carefully controlled conditions, contamination is still a distinct possibility. This thing isn't even somewhat sealed to the elements.

If it IS an Iraqi attempt at a mobile bioweapons lab, they are clearly too incompetent as scientist to ever be any kind of threat to us. They'd be lucky to grow mold in that thing.

Photo of suspected mobile lab.

Did it occur to you and anyone you work with, that this rig could be parked inside of clean building?

 

[CaptnKirk]

Don't you think that the "Claen Rooms' would have been even easier to find and see - like the UN Inspectors had already done.
They are really big and don't really move very fast, we could have tracked them down no matter how many feet they traveled.

 

[LunarRay]

Originally posted by: CaptnKirk
If we tried to invade Columbia, wouldn't that bring us back to the Iran-Contra thing that we did under Reagan
when Ollie North and friends got involved in drug deals, money laundering, and weapons movement for Iran and Columbis,
just like back in the good old days ?
-We armed Saddam at the same time so Iran and Iraq could kill each other.
We just didn't want either side to survive.

Kukla, Ron and Ollie were in a covert operation that had not to do with ridding the US of Drugs... I propose an Overt... attack on the silent terror that invades the corners of every city in the Union. I say attack.... and rid the place of the evil that controls the lives of so many. Lets get it all done now that we have the Willing and Wongging will to fight for right... Or perhaps we need more focus on the issue or less competition for the war buck.

 

[Fausto]

Originally posted by: charrison

Originally posted by: Fausto1
I'll chime in here since this "weapons lab" has been the subject of much debate here at the CDC.

The prevailing opinion is that this is not a mobile biological weapons lab. Reason being that the construction is such that avoiding contamination of whatever it is you were trying to culture would be almost impossible. Keeping your cultures clean becomes exponentially more difficult as the culture gets bigger. For a bioreactor this big, even under the most carefully controlled conditions, contamination is still a distinct possibility. This thing isn't even somewhat sealed to the elements.

If it IS an Iraqi attempt at a mobile bioweapons lab, they are clearly too incompetent as scientist to ever be any kind of threat to us. They'd be lucky to grow mold in that thing.

Photo of suspected mobile lab.

Did it occur to you and anyone you work with, that this rig could be parked inside of clean building?

Trust me. It wouldn't matter. The likelyhood of getting this thing clean once you parked it, getting the culture set up and not contaminated and then keeping it that way once you move the thing around is about nil. You don't just set up a reaction, seal it, stick it in the microwave for five minutes and then bomb New York. Making huge amounts of weaponized biological agents is not a simple process under ideal conditions. This truck thing is the polar opposite of ideal.

 

[charrison]

Originally posted by: CaptnKirk
Don't you think that the "Claen Rooms' would have been even easier to find and see - like the UN Inspectors had already done.
They are really big and don't really move very fast, we could have tracked them down no matter how many feet they traveled.

Kinda like that empty facility they found a couple days after the war started....

 

[charrison]

Originally posted by: Fausto1

Originally posted by: charrison

Originally posted by: Fausto1
I'll chime in here since this "weapons lab" has been the subject of much debate here at the CDC.

The prevailing opinion is that this is not a mobile biological weapons lab. Reason being that the construction is such that avoiding contamination of whatever it is you were trying to culture would be almost impossible. Keeping your cultures clean becomes exponentially more difficult as the culture gets bigger. For a bioreactor this big, even under the most carefully controlled conditions, contamination is still a distinct possibility. This thing isn't even somewhat sealed to the elements.

If it IS an Iraqi attempt at a mobile bioweapons lab, they are clearly too incompetent as scientist to ever be any kind of threat to us. They'd be lucky to grow mold in that thing.

Photo of suspected mobile lab.

Did it occur to you and anyone you work with, that this rig could be parked inside of clean building?

Trust me. It wouldn't matter. The likelyhood of getting this thing clean once you parked it, getting the culture set up and not contaminated and then keeping it that way once you move the thing around is about nil. You don't just set up a reaction, seal it, stick it in the microwave for five minutes and then bomb New York. Making huge amounts of weaponized biological agents is not a simple process under ideal conditions. This truck thing is the polar opposite of ideal.

Yes I have no doubt this kind of setup is by no means ideal, but I also doubt it is completely unworkable.