Bill Cosby in the spotlight looking good!

[fskimospy]

So the mere presence of anyone asking for any money from Bill Cosby makes the stories of other people who have disavowed it less plausible. Uhmm, okay.

The reason we would choose to believe something is because such a large number of people all reporting a similar experience is unlikely. Again, you have a choice between 27 separate people all lying or one person lying. You appear to think they are both equally likely because he is rich. I don't.

 

[CZroe]

As for the amount of people, it does not make a difference in the presumption of innocence. You see, there are these phenomenons known as copycats and bandwagoning. It's why we had a huge uptick in copycat problems when the police leaked a video to the news and it's why we have con artists showing up left and right after another won a huge lawsuit.

Why is it so hard to believe that people want his money bad enough to form a bandwagon with a similar story to accusations from 30 years ago? That would be the perfect story to center your extortion plot on, no?

 

[werepossum]

So the mere presence of anyone asking for any money from Bill Cosby makes the stories of other people who have disavowed it less plausible. Uhmm, okay.

The reason we would choose to believe something is because such a large number of people all reporting a similar experience is unlikely. Again, you have a choice between 27 separate people all lying or one person lying. You appear to think they are both equally likely because he is rich. I don't.

Gotcha. So Bill Clinton is also a serial rapist, no? Or is that somehow different?

 

[bshole]

What I don't get for the people saying they don't believe any of this is that you're basically saying that you think there is a less than 50% chance of even a single one of 27 separate allegations being true. Is that really the most likely thing?

Um, how about the fact that we know and love Bill Cosby and everything he has done for American culture? You know Fat Albert and The Cosby Show.... It would be heartbreaking to see that wonderful legacy destroyed by unsubstantiated rumors.

 

[CZroe]

Um, how about the fact that we know and love Bill Cosby and everything he has done for American culture? You know Fat Albert and The Cosby Show.... It would be heartbreaking to see that wonderful legacy destroyed by unsubstantiated rumors.

And is it so wrong to expect SOMETHING substantial after so many years and so many "victims?"

These days money can make you a victim/target just as easily as it could buy someone else power.

 

[fskimospy]

As for the amount of people, it does not make a difference in the presumption of innocence. You see, there are these phenomenons known as copycats and bandwagoning. It's why we had a huge uptick in copycat problems when the police leaked a video to the news and it's why we have con artists showing up left and right after another won a huge lawsuit.

Why is it so hard to believe that people want his money bad enough to form a bandwagon with a similar story to accusations from 30 years ago? That would be the perfect story to center your extortion plot on, no?

Ok so you are arguing that one of the largest organized extortion plots in history is more likely than Bill Cosby being a sex offender.

It's not hard to believe that people could want to do something like that. I just think that considering the amount of accusations, the variety of sources, his reputation in his professional community, etc. I just find it considerably less likely than the alternative that at least one of the 27 is true. It's hard to see how a critical examination of the facts could lead to that conclusion.

 

[fskimospy]

Um, how about the fact that we know and love Bill Cosby and everything he has done for American culture? You know Fat Albert and The Cosby Show.... It would be heartbreaking to see that wonderful legacy destroyed by unsubstantiated rumors.

I honestly could not care less about that. I would still find his comedy funny no matter what his personal issues are. I separate the art and the artist, many of whom have been awful people.

 

[werepossum]

I honestly could not care less about that. I would still find his comedy funny no matter what his personal issues are. I separate the art and the artist, many of whom have been awful people.

How could you watch anything starring or made by someone you consider a serial rapist? That just totally boggles my mind.

 

[fskimospy]

Gotcha. So Bill Clinton is also a serial rapist, no? Or is that somehow different?

This is an instructive example though. Given the large number of accusations against Bill Clinton I find it overehelmingly likely that he has engaged in a pattern of highly inappropriate, possibly illegal sexual behavior throughout his life. (Although calling him a serial rapist doesn't really fit with the evidence. More like a serial philanderer and sexual harasser, but yes there is one person who alleges rape)

So by the same standard, I find it very likely that there is something to these allegations against Cosby.

 

[fskimospy]

How could you watch anything starring or made by someone you consider a serial rapist? That just totally boggles my mind.

Are the rockets that sent the first men to the moon less impressive because nazis helped make them? Of course not. The personal attributes of a person who creates something informs how we view it, but it's not like cosby's contributions to American culture suddenly are erased just because he's probably a rapist.

 

[werepossum]

Are the rockets that sent the first men to the moon less impressive because nazis helped make them? Of course not. The personal attributes of a person who creates something informs how we view it, but it's not like cosby's contributions to American culture suddenly are erased just because he's probably a rapist.

But those were tame Nazis! That's completely different!

I can see not abandoning something of technology because someone heinous worked on it. I just can't see how I could ever enjoy watching art or entertainment created by or starring such a person. Maybe that's an arbitrary difference, but art to me seems much more personal.

 

[Victorian Gray]

Personally I'm not saying it's not possible. I'm just saying I'm not convinced it's true.

As far as Jimmy Savile, perhaps his case is indeed illustrative.
http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-30494996 Jimmy Savile: Victims' compensation scheme approved

Claim to have been molested by Jimmy Saville? That's good enough for us. Come get your chunk of his estate, and while you're at it, have a double helping of taxpayer money too. Just remember to tip your lawyers on the way out. They're the ones atop that biiig pile of cash.

Proving things in a court of law is SO twentieth century.

Yeah, it's just about the money.

And again, everyone was told to piss off/laughed at/ignored when they tried top tell anyone in positions of authority. Now where have we heard that type of story before? I think it was in regards to some famous American comedian/actor.

SAVILE ‘MOLESTED AS HE BROADCASTED

Savile might have molested young girls while recording radio broadcasts of his show Savile’s Travels, according to The Sunday Telegraph. The paper has heard the tapes, which date back to 1975. In one, a girl can be heard screaming as Savile tells her: “Watch how I operate… I better play a record with the other hand.” On another tape, a girl is heard pleading: “Get off… Get off my backside.” The tapes are now with the police."

"Alan Simpson, who worked with Savile at the Mecca dancehall in Wakefield in the 1960s, said: “One of the biggest laffs we had [with Jimmy] was either he was going to be a huge success or in prison for screwing 14-year-old girls. Everyone in the Mecca company knew about it. It was wink, wink, nod, nod. It was never made public.”

"BBC 6 Music DJ Liz Kershaw, who joined Radio 1 in 1987, has said jokes about Jimmy Savile’s sexual proclivities were commonplace at the corporation and that she was herself routinely groped by another radio presenter, The Guardian reports. "There was one presenter who routinely groped me,” said Kershaw, 54. “I would be sitting in the studio with my headphones on, my back to the studio door, live on air, and couldn't hear a thing except what was in my headphones, and then I'd find these wandering hands up my jumper fondling my breasts."

""I couldn't say anything, I couldn't even explain because I was broadcasting to the nation. When I complained to somebody they were incredulous and said: 'Don't you like it, are you a lesbian?'"

http://www.theweek.co.uk/people-new...my-savile-molested-girls-while-he-broadcasted

Molested on Camera

"A Top of the Pops audience member has told Sky News she was molested on camera by Jimmy Savile and then laughed at by a member of the crew when she tried to complain.

Sylvia Edwards, who was 18 at the time, says she was told to get lost by a man on the studio floor who said: "That's just Jimmy Savile."

http://news.sky.com/story/1005362/savile-molested-teen-during-top-of-the-pops

"LONDON — No one listened to Deborah Cogger’s story. Not her teachers, who dismissed it as no big deal. Not her social worker, who accused her of making it up. Not the newspapers she called decades later, which said it was too explosive to publish.

Deborah Cogger was a teenager in reform school where, she says, Jimmy Savile molested her and others.

It was not until this fall, nearly 40 years after she left a reform school in Surrey, England, that Ms. Cogger finally got anyone to believe her account of how she and other girls there were routinely molested by one of Britain’s most powerful celebrities, the eccentric, cigar-chomping television host Jimmy Savile.

“If you moaned about it, you were told not to say those awful things about Jimmy — ‘Oh, that’s just Jimmy, that’s his way; he loves you girls,’ ” said Ms. Cogger, 52. If you said he had touched your breasts, she added, “they’d say, ‘Don’t be wicked, he would never do that.’ ”

The revelation last month that Mr. Savile, who died last year, was most likely a child sex abuser with perhaps hundreds of victims has profoundly shocked a country that now acknowledges that all the signs were there, if anyone had cared to see them"

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/11/11/w...-complaint-is-heeded.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

Care home boss delivered me into the clutches of evil Savile, says victim

"The man says the boss of Broome House children’s home, later jailed for targeting boys in his care, introduced the DJ to him when he was 13.

http://www.manchestereveningnews.co...ws/jimmy-savile-abuse-manchester-care-6926729

Ex-York nurse saw Jimmy Savile ‘molest’ patient

“I can still remember seeing exactly what he did. He just helped himself to her. He molested her. He rubbed his hands over her chest and further down her front.”

Mrs Thornton, from the north of York, claimed that when she told a nurse, she took no notice and nothing was done. “I couldn’t believe it. I remember saying: ‘Don’t let that man anywhere near me. If he does, I will scream the place down!’”

She said the victim, a young woman, had been sitting in a chair when Savile abused her. The woman was unable to resist and she believed she had undergone neurosurgery. Mrs Thornton said she told her husband what had happened when he visited her that evening, and her family had always been aware of the incident"

http://www.yorkpress.co.uk/news/9968467.Ex_York_nurse_saw_Jimmy_Savile____molest____patient/

 

[Victorian Gray]

I honestly could not care less about that. I would still find his comedy funny no matter what his personal issues are. I separate the art and the artist, many of whom have been awful people.

Really? You could watch an unrepentant, serial sexual predator (if true) do jokes and laugh at them?

I must say, that surprises me.

 

[fskimospy]

Really? You could watch an unrepentant, serial sexual predator (if true) do jokes and laugh at them?

I must say, that surprises me.

Sure. Some of the greatest art, music, etc, the world has ever seen has come from people who were virulent racists, sex offenders, thieves, and even murderers. You might be surprised to learn that a number of things you currently enjoy were made by truly awful people.

I would think twice about doing things that would financially support Cosby now that this has come out, but I can't pretend I suddenly don't find his comedy funny.

 

[Don Vito Corleone]

Extortion or kick backs from others involved would be private (duh) and if that's not it, the $100 million "victim" fund does not require that she be a member of the suit. Convenient, huh? $100 million divided 27 ways is nearly 4 million each. It isn't only legal pressure that may make an extortion plot succeed: his sponsors and other associations are dropping him like he was diseased and this, too, could be a planned result of him rejecting their extortion plot. Now they have moved on to plan B, which is the $100 million pot to split.

He very well may be a rapist but there is a reason we are innocent until proven guilty in this country.

The $100M is sheer fantasy for Gloria Allred. It will never happen. It certainly doesn't explain all of the many other women who have accused him of similar conduct over many years.

 

[bshole]

The $100M is sheer fantasy for Gloria Allred. It will never happen. It certainly doesn't explain all of the many other women who have accused him of similar conduct over many years.

Does it seem odd to you that nobody has come forward to state that they supplied opiates to Bill Cosby? If he was drugging all of this women over the decades, it would be necessary for him to have a supplier of drugs. I haven't heard a whisper of ANYBODY supplying Bill Cosby with drugs capable of knocking people out.

Secondly, if Bill Cosby was really giving opiates to multiple women over the decades, how come there wasn't a single documented visit to an emergency room? Opiates are EXTREMELY dangerous drugs and are a leading cause of death with 10's of thousands of victims every year. They are even more lethal when mixed with alcohol. It strikes me as more than a little odd that he could SAFELY knock out that many women without a single medical emergency, that doesn't seem possible. I have an uncle that died of an opiate overdose on the operating table and a brother who went to the emergency room due to a prescription opiate overdose. Both of these incidents involved professional md's not a comedian with a bottle of whiskey and pills.

 

[Don Vito Corleone]

Does it seem odd to you that nobody has come forward to state that they supplied opiates to Bill Cosby? If he was drugging all of this women over the decades, it would be necessary for him to have a supplier of drugs. I haven't heard a whisper of ANYBODY supplying Bill Cosby with drugs capable of knocking people out.

Secondly, if Bill Cosby was really giving opiates to multiple women over the decades, how come there wasn't a single documented visit to an emergency room? Opiates are EXTREMELY dangerous drugs and are a leading cause of death with 10's of thousands of victims every year. They are even more lethal when mixed with alcohol. It strikes me as more than a little odd that he could SAFELY knock out that many women without a single medical emergency, that doesn't seem possible. I have an uncle that died of an opiate overdose on the operating table and a brother who went to the emergency room due to a prescription opiate overdose. Both of these incidents involved professional md's not a comedian with a bottle of whiskey and pills.

There is no evidence they were opiates. It sounds like they may have been something as banal as large doses of antihistamines like Benadryl (even he agrees he gave Benadryl to one of the alleged victims, Andrea Constand), which can cause dizziness and sleepiness combined with alcohol. Obviously there is also the possibility that later incidents involved a benzodiazepine like rohypnol, which is very powerful when mixed with alcohol but does not appear to kill (hence its wild popularity as a date rape drug). The former is an OTC drug, and the latter is something Cosby could presumably lay his hands on through an intermediary. That intermediary would be just as motivated as Cosby to keep this secret, since they too could be charged with one or more felonies.

 

[bshole]

There is no evidence they were opiates. It sounds like they may have been something as banal as large doses of antihistamines like Benadryl (even he agrees he gave Benadryl to one of the alleged victims, Andrea Constand), which can cause dizziness and sleepiness combined with alcohol. Obviously there is also the possibility that later incidents involved a benzodiazepine like rohypnol, which is very powerful when mixed with alcohol but does not appear to kill (hence its wild popularity as a date rape drug). The former is an OTC drug, and the latter is something Cosby could presumably lay his hands on through an intermediary. That intermediary would be just as motivated as Cosby to keep this secret, since they too could be charged with one or more felonies.

Some of the side effects of rohypnol are "coma" and "death". It is certainly not a "safe" alternative to opiates. Let me put it another way, ANY drug that can cause you to lose consciousness can also kill you or cause a medical emergency.

Rohypnol is a central nervous system (CNS) depressant. It creates a general slowing down brain activity. The signs of too much Rohypnol reflect this slower biological pace: Slower heart rate, lower blood pressure, slurring of speech, unsteady walking, and an inability to form memories are among the milder symptoms of an overdose.
When the overdose is more severe, very basic vital functions can be suppressed to very dangerous levels. The user may lose consciousness. Breathing and even the beating of the heart may momentarily stop altogether. The overdose victim may slip into a coma or even die.

http://rohypnolabusetreatment.com/how-much-rohypnol-will-cause-an-overdose

 

[Don Vito Corleone]

Some of the side effects of rohypnol are "coma" and "death". It is certainly not a "safe" alternative to opiates. Let me put it another way, ANY drug that can cause you to lose consciousness can also kill you or cause a medical emergency.



http://rohypnolabusetreatment.com/how-much-rohypnol-will-cause-an-overdose

Those side effects relate to an overdose, not a normal dose mixed with alcohol. Rohypnol is regularly used as a date rape drug without fatal effects.

I'm not sure why I am even having this debate with someone whose principal argument seems to be that because Cosby played decent, honorable characters, he must be a decent, honorable man. That is about as inane an argument as I have ever heard.

 

[bshole]

I'm not sure why I am even having this debate with someone whose principal argument seems to be that because Cosby played decent, honorable characters, he must be a decent, honorable man. That is about as inane an argument as I have ever heard.

You obviously haven't read many of my posts. I have certainly made much more inane arguments than that.

 

[CZroe]

The $100M is sheer fantasy for Gloria Allred. It will never happen. It certainly doesn't explain all of the many other women who have accused him of similar conduct over many years.

"Over the years." You keep saying this, but was it really "over the years?"

You must mean the few dismissed long ago and then a couple more in recent years followed by a sudden influx of retcon-accusations that fill in the rest of the "years?"

Perhaps I need to lay it out on a timeline including when the accusation was made public, because the ones I've heard about since his initial issue decades ago seem to fit like this: Wait a long time, throw some new fuel on the fire (accusations from 2000-2008), wait a bit longer, and then fill in the blanks (new accusations of old misconduct). It appears to be a constructed narrative.

He seems to be targeted. If anyone would be targeted, he would, so don't be so quick to dismiss it as conspiracy/fantasy. Even criminals will work long and hard for a BIG payday.

 

[werepossum]

There is no evidence they were opiates. It sounds like they may have been something as banal as large doses of antihistamines like Benadryl (even he agrees he gave Benadryl to one of the alleged victims, Andrea Constand), which can cause dizziness and sleepiness combined with alcohol. Obviously there is also the possibility that later incidents involved a benzodiazepine like rohypnol, which is very powerful when mixed with alcohol but does not appear to kill (hence its wild popularity as a date rape drug). The former is an OTC drug, and the latter is something Cosby could presumably lay his hands on through an intermediary. That intermediary would be just as motivated as Cosby to keep this secret, since they too could be charged with one or more felonies.

M'kay . . . Certainly not buying that these women slept through a rape because of large doses of benadryl. And rohypnol, while safe as date rape drugs go, is only safe compared to recreational or date rape drugs. There are deaths from what people think are safe doses.

http://oade.nd.edu/educate-yourself-drugs/rohypnol-flunitrazepam/

Drug Interactions
One trend is termed synthetic speedballing. This involves combining Ecstasy and Rohypnol to induce a stronger effect. To produce a “floating effect,” Rohypnol is also used in combination with marijuana, cocaine, or heroin. College students typically use alcohol in combination with Rohypnol to create an enhanced feeling of drunkenness. High school students use the drug as a “cheap drunk” without the smell of alcohol. In some areas, it is associated with gangs and is known as a club drug. It is also popular in raves. Warning – when used in combination with other drugs including alcohol, Rohypnol presents great risk of overdose. Results are fatal because breathing stops. Combining Rohypnol with MDMA (Ecstasy) can lead to heart failure, coma, and death.

Rohypnol isn't used by rapists because it's safe for the victim - someone planning a rape has already accepted the victim as more or less expendable, an object rather than a person. Rohypnol is used by rapists because it's relatively safe for the rapist. I don't know the odds, but it's certainly reasonable to ask why we have seen no deaths or medical emergencies if we assume the man is a serial rapist. These are young women who are mixing with alcohol, and at least some no doubt had other drugs in their systems as well. It's a business rife with drug use and abuse.

You obviously haven't read many of my posts. I have certainly made much more inane arguments than that.

lmao +1

 

[Don Vito Corleone]

"Over the years." You keep saying this, but was it really "over the years?"

You must mean the few dismissed long ago and then a couple more in recent years followed by a sudden influx of retcon-accusations that fill in the rest of the "years?"

Perhaps I need to lay it out on a timeline including when the accusation was made public, because the ones I've heard about since his initial issue decades ago seem to fit like this: Wait a long time, throw some new fuel on the fire (accusations from 2000-2008), wait a bit longer, and then fill in the blanks (new accusations of old misconduct). It appears to be a constructed narrative.

He seems to be targeted. If anyone would be targeted, he would, so don't be so quick to dismiss it as conspiracy/fantasy. Even criminals will work long and hard for a BIG payday.

Andrea Constad filed criminal charges against him following her incident with him, which the prosecutor did not pursue (thought he now says he believes Cosby was guilty). When she brought her civil case, in 2005, 13 other victims swore out affidavits stating that they, too, had been drugged and molested. As far as I am aware none of them has ever sought money from Cosby.

To me the idea that this is a big conspiracy is nonsensical, and far less plausible than the possibility that at least some of the alleged victims are telling the truth.

 

[Victorian Gray]

"Over the years." You keep saying this, but was it really "over the years?"

You must mean the few dismissed long ago and then a couple more in recent years followed by a sudden influx of retcon-accusations that fill in the rest of the "years?"

Perhaps I need to lay it out on a timeline including when the accusation was made public, because the ones I've heard about since his initial issue decades ago seem to fit like this: Wait a long time, throw some new fuel on the fire (accusations from 2000-2008), wait a bit longer, and then fill in the blanks (new accusations of old misconduct). It appears to be a constructed narrative.

He seems to be targeted. If anyone would be targeted, he would, so don't be so quick to dismiss it as conspiracy/fantasy. Even criminals will work long and hard for a BIG payday.

Here's your timeline and it apparently starts in 1965

http://www.tvguide.com/news/bill-cosby-rape-allegations-timeline-1089629.aspx

 

[Don Vito Corleone]

M'kay . . . Certainly not buying that these women slept through a rape because of large doses of benadryl. And rohypnol, while safe as date rape drugs go, is only safe compared to recreational or date rape drugs. There are deaths from what people think are safe doses.

http://oade.nd.edu/educate-yourself-drugs/rohypnol-flunitrazepam/

Rohypnol isn't used by rapists because it's safe for the victim - someone planning a rape has already accepted the victim as more or less expendable, an object rather than a person. Rohypnol is used by rapists because it's relatively safe for the rapist. I don't know the odds, but it's certainly reasonable to ask why we have seen no deaths or medical emergencies if we assume the man is a serial rapist. These are young women who are mixing with alcohol, and at least some no doubt had other drugs in their systems as well. It's a business rife with drug use and abuse.


lmao +1

Again, by using the word "rape" you are presuming a set of facts (intercourse) different from what has actually been alleged. The allegations mostly seem to involve some creepy, nonconsensual touching and masturbating. Interestingly the most recent alleged victim to reveal herself says she woke up to find Cosby masturbating while licking her toes, and that he left the room once he saw she was awake. The kinds of crimes we are talking about don't require general anesthesia - just for the victim to be far enough asleep that she won't wake up based on some touching.

The only reason I brought up Benadryl is that he admitted giving it to the alleged victim he paid. I brought it up mostly to illustrate the notion that he didn't need to administer propofol or other major anesthesia to effect the kinds of crimes he is accused of.