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Discussion Beyond zen 6

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jpiniero said:
That is what I imagine AMD will do. Maybe even do rebrands.

Edit: To fill out the lower priced stack. I still say that AMD shouldn't bother with non-X3D desktop products, but the leaky dies have to go somewhere I guess.
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I think that would be a bad idea. Plenty of people don't need 3D cache and look at the markup on 9800X3D over the 9700X. Over $100. Also it may cause supply problems as the X3D models always seem to out of stock for awhile after launch.

Fjodor2001 said:
Compete on what arena? Gaming perf, MT perf, perf/$, … ? And enough for AMD to be one CPU generation behind in that comparison?

Why do you base that on?
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The only thing NVL has going for it is moar cores. If they haven't fixed the L3 it'll probably still be behind in gaming. MT will be good perhaps but how many people cant benefit from 52c? Also AMD is doing just fine being a node behind Intel at the moment. Plus the DIY market strongly favors AMD and that is likely to continue. The Dell's of the world will keep selling Intel but that's ok it's crap margins anyway.
 
adroc_thurston said:
Why do you think they have an 8c CCD?
That's right, for poor people.
People with sub-$600 budgets gotta have a CPU too.

I buy server parts (and laptops).
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Hell I could've predicted this response. Blah blah blah poor people. Most people don't need expensive CPU's. A six or eight core is more than fine for most.

The other possibility would be something like "you will pay $800-1000 and you will like it". Not as long as older gens are still readily available.
 
Thunder 57 said:
Hell I could've predicted this response. Blah blah blah poor people. Most people don't need expensive CPU's. A six or eight core is more than fine for most.

The other possibility would be something like "you will pay $800-1000 and you will like it". Not as long as older gens are still readily available.
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A six or 8 core is fine for most. They are not wrong. If you want cores and you get economic value from them you can pay for more.
 
inquiss said:
No, everyone will buy X3D just like now. AMD owns retail because of X3D
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Put X3D on everything and you lose the #2 best selling CPU on Amazon. Plenty of people are very happy with the 9600X. Why risk giving Intel an opening? Honestly if Intel didn't crap the bed in gaming with ARL the 265k likely would've sold a lot more. Though probably not at the fire sale prices Intel has been charging.
 
inquiss said:
No, everyone will buy X3D just like now. AMD owns retail because of X3D
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They own retail for the same reason Nvidia owns the GPU market. They have a strong halo part that everyone sees and then just buy whatever is in their price range that is the same brand.
 
Fjodor2001 said:
Yeah, the Zen5 CPUs with 8C CCDs will likely still be available.
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No 1t perf big dawg.
1t perf rules the world and AMD knows it (very acutely; tons of internal politics involved).
Fjodor2001 said:
So you’re hoping that you’ll be able to disable sufficient number of cores on those Zen7 parts to get your precious 6C.
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Don't have to, 8c CCD exists for mainstream usecases (and low CC freq EPYCs. sexo).
Claudiovict said:
The 32c will exist?
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the 16c CCD exists (gotta up the core counts on SP8 EPYCs).
Thunder 57 said:
The other possibility would be something like "you will pay $800-1000 and you will like it". Not as long as older gens are still readily available.
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See the thing with "older gens" is that they don't have 1t.
 
Thunder 57 said:
Hell I could've predicted this response. Blah blah blah poor people. Most people don't need expensive CPU's. A six or eight core is more than fine for most.

The other possibility would be something like "you will pay $800-1000 and you will like it". Not as long as older gens are still readily available.
Click to expand...

A new 6 core priced at the same price as old gen 8 core but with slightly more int/scalar FP nT performance , much higher 1T and newer instruction sets, which one are you picking?
 
itsmydamnation said:
A new 6 core priced at the same price as old gen 8 core but with slightly more int/scalar FP nT performance , much higher 1T and newer instruction sets, which one are you picking?
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Hex core clearly. But it seems we aren't assuming same/similar price and that Zen 6 will cost significantly more. Adroc just said above sub $600 can/will be for 8c models for the poors. A 9700X is already about $300 so I would hardly call that a similar price. Even a 9800X3D at $450 would be a good bit cheaper.
 
adroc_thurston said:
See this is Zen7, on A14 with much more area per core (2M L2 and other bling).
Zen6 does not have the dedicated 8c CCD for lumpenproles.
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There's always new shit coming. Zen has gone to newer nodes before and added cache, etc. Yet the x600X series has always had a similar MSRP ($250) other than the $50 increase across the board with Zen 3. And prices have generally stuck to MSRP on all models unless their is uber demand (X3D or all of Zen 3 on launch).

1600X $249
2600X $229
3600X $249
5600X/7700X $299
9600X $279

That's despite new nodes, inflation, and far more popularity over the years. Besides, isn't price one of the last things to be decided? All anyone can do is speculate and that includes you. We don't even have Zen 6 prices yet.
 
Thunder 57 said:
That's despite new nodes, inflation, and far more popularity over the years. Besides, isn't price one of the last things to be decided? All anyone can do is speculate and that includes you. We don't even have Zen 6 prices yet.
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Yes exact prices are decided last, but they are still bound by trends / constraints, so you can make a trajectory. All else being equal are AMD going to decrease / maintain / increase margin. if AMD going to have a bigger/small/same T1 gaming advantage, have input costs increased/decreased/same etc etc. so you can argue the specifics of the price point but all the indicators point towards price per core increasing.
 
511 said:
Well it's not that expensive
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ehhh.
Zen6 alone is 2 nodes of money + packaging cost addr + new moremoney cIOD.
Zen7 compounds on that with A14 so prices will just go up and up.

It's the reason most laptop segments are becoming increasingly hard to live in. DIY can tolerate mass ASP hikes. Laptop can't; OEM opmargins are razor thin as is.
 
adroc_thurston said:
ehhh.
Zen6 alone is 2 nodes of money + packaging cost addr + new moremoney cIOD.
Zen7 compounds on that with A14 so prices will just go up and up.
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I agree they are getting expensive cause of N4P IOD and packing but not that expensive to cost 200$ To produce a 12C Z6 CPU not today i will wait for Zen 6 to ready my cost spreadsheet.
adroc_thurston said:
It's the reason most laptop segments are becoming increasingly hard to live in. DIY can tolerate mass ASP hikes. Laptop can't; OEM opmargins are razor thin as is.
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Yeah that's why older stuff had to sell and existence of WCL.
 
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