Beginning of the End for Roe v Wade?

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Feb 23, 2005
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Here's a scenario for you: Say a couple finds out in the 2nd trimester that their child has a tumor growing off her tailbone and that couple is referred to specialists at an Ivy League's Hospital's Children's Hospital (Dartmouth College's Dartmouth Medical Center's CHaD) who have some damn good pediatric neurosurgeons. Say this same couple spends all of the 2nd trimester going back and forth seeing the different specialists. All the while the tumor is getting bigger and bigger while stealing more of her blood supply and more and more nerves are growing and things are becoming more complicated. Once it is decided that there is nothing that can be done at Dartmouth Medical Center they are referred to the best team east of the Mississippi River at the Children's Hospital in Philadelphia at the University of Philadelphia Medical Center.

If you haven't figured out by now this story is about me and is very personal and turned me into the cold-hearted prick I am today. I spent my 28th birthday on a Sunday in Camden, New Jersey at the Ronald McDonald House because we had appointments scheduled for the next day starting at 6:30 AM. After 12 hours of tests and meetings, we finally met with the team of neurosurgeons and found out there was nothing that could be done. At the same time, they were informing us that because of laws in every except Kansas that there was nothing we could do and that my girlfriend would be forced to carry our little girl to term just so we could watch her die. 22 days later on Christmas night 2002 at 23:50 Emily was born, she died December 26 at 00:10 of heart failure due to having to pump blood through a tumor that was half of her total body weight.

Because of you and people like you, we couldn't terminate the pregnancy which would have been done in a more humane way than the way it all unfolded. My daughter wasn't viable but we were still forced to go through with it. 2 days later my paternal grandfather died. On the same night, I had to attend 2 memorial services thankfully I only died at one.



Based on posting history I would say serious.
I'm truly sorry for your loss. That's sounds like a trickle thing to go through.
 
Dec 18, 2010
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www.countrylifenet.com
Because of you and people like you, we couldn't terminate the pregnancy which would have been done in a more humane way than the way it all unfolded. My daughter wasn't viable but we were still forced to go through with it. 2 days later my paternal grandfather died. On the same night, I had to attend 2 memorial services thankfully I only died at one.
I am so sorry to hear that, I really am

In 1991 my wife was driving home and was hit by a drunk driver, she was 16 weeks pregnant. The baby was tore in half by the impact. It sucks.

I feel there should be a way to terminate a nonviable pregnancy, while at the same time protecting the life of viable unborn children.
 

DarthKyrie

Senior member
Jul 11, 2016
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I'm truly sorry for your loss. That's sounds like a trickle thing to go through.
I am so sorry to hear that, I really am

In 1991 my wife was driving home and was hit by a drunk driver, she was 16 weeks pregnant. The baby was tore in half by the impact. It sucks.

I feel there should be a way to terminate a nonviable pregnancy, while at the same time protecting the life of viable unborn children.
Thank you guys, it's not something I usually talk about much less post on a forum, but with this topic, I had to tell my story because it serves a purpose to inform on a reason why 3rd-trimester abortion should be legal. Some good has come of it thou, the doctors at Dartmouth medical got to study her and learn a great deal from her.
 
Nov 4, 2004
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Here's a scenario for you: Say a couple finds out in the 2nd trimester that their child has a tumor growing off her tailbone and that couple is referred to specialists at an Ivy League's Hospital's Children's Hospital (Dartmouth College's Dartmouth Medical Center's CHaD) who have some damn good pediatric neurosurgeons. Say this same couple spends all of the 2nd trimester going back and forth seeing the different specialists. All the while the tumor is getting bigger and bigger while stealing more of her blood supply and more and more nerves are growing and things are becoming more complicated. Once it is decided that there is nothing that can be done at Dartmouth Medical Center they are referred to the best team east of the Mississippi River at the Children's Hospital in Philadelphia at the University of Philadelphia Medical Center.

If you haven't figured out by now this story is about me and is very personal and turned me into the cold-hearted prick I am today. I spent my 28th birthday on a Sunday in Camden, New Jersey at the Ronald McDonald House because we had appointments scheduled for the next day starting at 6:30 AM. After 12 hours of tests and meetings, we finally met with the team of neurosurgeons and found out there was nothing that could be done. At the same time, they were informing us that because of laws in every except Kansas that there was nothing we could do and that my girlfriend would be forced to carry our little girl to term just so we could watch her die. 22 days later on Christmas night 2002 at 23:50 Emily was born, she died December 26 at 00:10 of heart failure due to having to pump blood through a tumor that was half of her total body weight.

Because of you and people like you, we couldn't terminate the pregnancy which would have been done in a more humane way than the way it all unfolded. My daughter wasn't viable but we were still forced to go through with it. 2 days later my paternal grandfather died. On the same night, I had to attend 2 memorial services thankfully I only died at one.



Based on posting history I would say serious.
/Thread. Thanks for opening up with this, you're very strong.
 
Jun 4, 2004
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Ok, I will directly answer your question.

Spontaneous abortion - Act of nature / act of GOD. Nothing we can do about it.
Nothing we can do about it? Hardly. You can not have sex.

Your response is the same as if you and the mother pointed a partially loaded revolver at your own newborn pulled the trigger and if it went off said it’s an act of nature or god. Nothing we could do about it.

By your logic, there’s no difference. The newborn is the same as a fertilized egg, the risk of death from spontaneous abortion is the same as playing Russian roulette, and whether you admit it or not the responsibility for that death is the same.


Pregnant women slaves - They made their choice. It is not a matter of making women slaves, it is a matter of holding them accountable for their actions.
So your argument is if a woman has sex with you they lose the right to bodily autonomy? Interesting argument.

Furthmore I thought you were arguing that a fetus is a baby and therefore has rights. What actions are you holding rape victims accountable for? Or are fetuses conceived of rape ok to terminate because this isn’t about the life of the baby but about punishing women who have sex?

I also don’t see an equal interest from you in having the man held accountable for his actions.

People give up certain rights when they commit certain actions. The idea that a personals rights can only be taken away by due process is BS. A person can take away their rights by their own hand.

  • Play in the middle of a highway - You forfeit your right to life by your own hand.
  • Jump out of a plane without a parachute - You forfeit your right to life by your own hand.
  • Get pregnant - You forfeit your rights by your own hand.
But you don’t lose your rights automatically by getting pregnant. You want the government to use force to remove those rights. Taking away someone’s right through government force requires due process per the constitution.

Once more you want someone to lose their rights in favor of someone who per the 13th amendment isn’t a citizen yet.

Now that could be fixed to say anyone conceived in the US is a citizen. I’m sure most conservatives would be super happy to jump on board with that change in light of the current fights on immigration.

The unborn child did NOTHING to forfeit their right to life.
You might find this shocking but no one has a right to be born. Not you not me. My kids are here because my wife and I wanted them. Other children we could have had are not here because we didn’t.

Birth is a subjective barrier to rights. It is no different than being white to vote, being a free slave, being a property owner to vote... etc. Birth is a subjective an moveable barrier.

Creation is not a subjective barrier. Once the egg attaches to the uterus and cells begin to divide, it is a life. There is nothing subjective about that. By the very definition of life, dividing cells consuming nutrients is alive.
But you just subjectively chose the point of creation.

The sperm and egg are by definition alive before conception. The fertilized egg is alive after conception.

You’ve chosen embryo implantation as your line but many anti-abortionists choose conception as that line. So why are you right and they are wrong?

Of course at this point we don’t even know how many “babies” there are as multiples are always a possibility. Yet you talk of “a” life.

As Jefferson said in the Declaration of Independence - "We hold these Truths to be self-evident, that all Men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness."

For all people to be created equal, rights have to start at the time of creation.
Now I am sorry to hear about what happened to you and your pregnant wife in the car crash. That’s awful.

It still doesn’t change the fact that your position above makes women into slaves, absolves men of any responsibility all based on an arbitrary line in the sand.
 
Jun 4, 2004
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Here's a scenario for you: Say a couple finds out in the 2nd trimester that their child has a tumor growing off her tailbone and that couple is referred to specialists at an Ivy League's Hospital's Children's Hospital (Dartmouth College's Dartmouth Medical Center's CHaD) who have some damn good pediatric neurosurgeons. Say this same couple spends all of the 2nd trimester going back and forth seeing the different specialists. All the while the tumor is getting bigger and bigger while stealing more of her blood supply and more and more nerves are growing and things are becoming more complicated. Once it is decided that there is nothing that can be done at Dartmouth Medical Center they are referred to the best team east of the Mississippi River at the Children's Hospital in Philadelphia at the University of Philadelphia Medical Center.

If you haven't figured out by now this story is about me and is very personal and turned me into the cold-hearted prick I am today. I spent my 28th birthday on a Sunday in Camden, New Jersey at the Ronald McDonald House because we had appointments scheduled for the next day starting at 6:30 AM. After 12 hours of tests and meetings, we finally met with the team of neurosurgeons and found out there was nothing that could be done. At the same time, they were informing us that because of laws in every except Kansas that there was nothing we could do and that my girlfriend would be forced to carry our little girl to term just so we could watch her die. 22 days later on Christmas night 2002 at 23:50 Emily was born, she died December 26 at 00:10 of heart failure due to having to pump blood through a tumor that was half of her total body weight.

Because of you and people like you, we couldn't terminate the pregnancy which would have been done in a more humane way than the way it all unfolded. My daughter wasn't viable but we were still forced to go through with it. 2 days later my paternal grandfather died. On the same night, I had to attend 2 memorial services thankfully I only died at one.



Based on posting history I would say serious.
God damn that must have been hard. Situations like yours are never in the stories anti-abortionists tell. They believe it’s only “ignorant sluts” waiting until the 9 month to bother getting an abortion. Who must be held “accountable”. Mostly so they can feel self-righteous.

When in reality it’s families in desperate circumstances trying to do the right thing.
 

glenn1

Elite Member
Sep 6, 2000
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Because of you and people like you, we couldn't terminate the pregnancy which would have been done in a more humane way than the way it all unfolded. My daughter wasn't viable but we were still forced to go through with it. 2 days later my paternal grandfather died. On the same night, I had to attend 2 memorial services thankfully I only died at one.

Based on posting history I would say serious.
There is nothing humane about abortion procedures in the later stages of pregnancy; the fetus is literally ripped apart and removed. It might have been easier for your peace of mind because you didn't need to watch it unfold or because it was over faster than the alternative but "more humane" isn't the correct word to use.
 
Jun 4, 2004
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There is nothing humane about abortion procedures in the later stages of pregnancy; the fetus is literally ripped apart and removed. It might have been easier for your peace of mind because you didn't need to watch it unfold or because it was over faster than the alternative but "more humane" isn't the correct word to use.
What are you talking about?

Most late term abortions are done via induction. The old DXE was mostly rendered illegal.

If it’s not being done by induction then it’s being done because there is something else wrong and they are protecting the health of the mother.
 

glenn1

Elite Member
Sep 6, 2000
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What are you talking about?

Most late term abortions are done via induction. The old DXE was mostly rendered illegal.

If it’s not being done by induction then it’s being done because there is something else wrong and they are protecting the health of the mother.
So even presuming for sake of argument its induced instead of IDX or D&E, I'm failing to see how it's more humane to induce a non-viable fetus to be born intact prematurely where it will die outside the womb due to non-viability vs. allowing it to come to term and be delivered intact when it where it will likewise die outside the womb due to non-viability.
 
Oct 6, 2009
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So even presuming for sake of argument its induced instead of IDX or D&E, I'm failing to see how it's more humane to induce a non-viable fetus to be born intact prematurely where it will die outside the womb due to non-viability vs. allowing it to come to term and be delivered intact when it where it will likewise die outside the womb due to non-viability.
Does it not stand to reason that a less developed fetus will suffer less?
 
Jun 4, 2004
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So even presuming for sake of argument its induced instead of IDX or D&E, I'm failing to see how it's more humane to induce a non-viable fetus to be born intact prematurely where it will die outside the womb due to non-viability vs. allowing it to come to term and be delivered intact when it where it will likewise die outside the womb due to non-viability.
In the interview I linked a few pages back an injection was used to end the non viable fetuses life. Then it’s removed via induction.

So instead of struggling for minutes or hours it’s over in seconds. Less suffering all around.
 

glenn1

Elite Member
Sep 6, 2000
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In the interview I linked a few pages back an injection was used to end the non viable fetuses life. Then it’s removed via induction.

So instead of struggling for minutes or hours it’s over in seconds. Less suffering all around.
Or you could allow it to come to term and be delivered and then do the injection and end its life in seconds. Or do a IDX and vacuum aspirate its thorax out killing it instantly if pure execution speed is the benchmark. I'm unsure why you think shifting the timing of the eventual act of ending the life is more humane. It might be easier on the mental state of the parents should they choose to compartmentalize the death being via one means vs. another but that's about it.
 
Oct 6, 2009
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Or you could allow it to come to term and be delivered and then do the injection and end its life in seconds. Or do a IDX and vacuum aspirate its thorax out killing it instantly if pure execution speed is the benchmark. I'm unsure why you think shifting the timing of the eventual act of ending the life is more humane. It might be easier on the mental state of the parents should they choose to compartmentalize the death being via one means vs. another but that's about it.
I think you could classify that as "more humane."
 
May 19, 2011
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There are always exceptions.
I think you are one confused bunny.

You've stated that abortion is murder in any trimester, you've likened it to slitting the throat of a todder, you've also said that you're OK with abortions just not third trimester abortions, sometimes abortion is OK in 'exceptional situations' (without saying what those are), and:

First, I have to clarify what *I* personally believe versus what I think is best for the country. For me, abortion is murder in any trimester; however, if I were king for a day I wouldnt ban it. Third trimester, however, as a general rule, I would. There are always extraneous circumstances that arise, and those should be treated as such. But when the baby can survive outside the womb, its murder.

Is that clear enough for you?
Just in case it isn't obvious to you, "murder" is defined as "the unlawful killing of a human being".

Tip: Unless you think abortion should be illegal in every circumstance, don't liken abortion in general to an illegal act. It's like going into a topic about the law on self-defence and saying that self-defence should be illegal in all circumstances but you're OK with it in exceptional circumstances.
 
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DarthKyrie

Senior member
Jul 11, 2016
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There is nothing humane about abortion procedures in the later stages of pregnancy; the fetus is literally ripped apart and removed. It might have been easier for your peace of mind because you didn't need to watch it unfold or because it was over faster than the alternative but "more humane" isn't the correct word to use.
So you want other people to be forced to go through what I did? It's good to know you want other's to give up their faith in humanity as I have. I'm a sociopath and I have more consideration for my fellow man, although that could be just my desire to make people suffer at hands.
 

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