Beginning of the End for Roe v Wade?

[Moonbeam]

As terrible as it would be if the court reverses RvW, it will, in my opinion, only be a temporary reversal. The reversal would prove such a titanic mistake that it would be it would soon be reinstated. Conservatism used to work in a world where change happened so slowly that the rapid adaption to change that only liberals can supply wasn't vital to keep up with rapid change. The pace of change is accelerating. Conservatism will soon equal extinction. The Republican party is clearly dying from within. Survival ultimately proves to be more important to most people than party affiliation.

 

[Texashiker]

The reversal would prove such a titanic mistake that it would be it would soon be reinstated.

Progressives crack me up. Protecting human life is a mistake?

One day our species will evolve past barbaric practices such as abortion.

 

[Jhhnn]

Progressives crack me up. Protecting human life is a mistake?

One day our species will evolve past barbaric practices such as abortion.

Denying modern women sovereignty over their own bodies won't fly. That's just the way it is, the way it has to be in a society where women are truly equal.

 

[Texashiker]

Denying modern women sovereignty over their own bodies won't fly. That's just the way it is, the way it has to be in a society where women are truly equal.

Denying unborn children their right to life is a crime against humanity.

If we are all equal, then why does a child have to die?

See therein lies the problem which demcrats have used as wedge issues for centuries. For one person to have their rights, another person must lose theirs.

 

[Paratus]

Denying unborn children their right to life is a crime against humanity.

If we are all equal, then why does a child have to die?

See therein lies the problem which demcrats have used as wedge issues for centuries. For one person to have their rights, another person must lose theirs.

Unborn “children” die due to spontaneous abortion at a rate orders of magnitude more than caused by elective abortion. If that’s a problem for you take it up with nature or god or stop having sex or use protection.

If you and your family didn’t have a funeral for each one of the fertilized eggs that spontaneously aborted while trying to have kids congratulations you didn’t consider it la real child either.

So you say the unborn are the same as born kids and expect us to treat them that way yet you don’t treat them as such.

You say you abortion is like slavery which you are against but you wish to make pregnant women slaves.

Do you care to address either of these discrepancies in your position?

 

[Moonbeam]

Progressives crack me up. Protecting human life is a mistake?One day our species will evolve past barbaric practices such as abortion.

This is an excellent way to illustrate the problem with your thiinking. It is perfectly obvious to any moral person that protecting human life can't be a mistake and since progressives and liberals generally are just as moral an anybody else, that tells you right away you have characterized the issue improperly. Conservatives constantly make this mistake. The conservative brain doesn't like uncertainty and refuses to see anything but black and white on issues that evoke negative feelings. Thus by focusing on the life of the fetus there immediately arises in the conservative mind a blindness to all other subject related moral issues, the ones that introduce gray those very black and white issues. This limitation of thinking capacity of conservatives threatens to to actually make them less able to act in a morally appropriate way.

 

[dank69]

Denying unborn children their right to life is a crime against humanity.

If we are all equal, then why does a child have to die?

See therein lies the problem which demcrats have used as wedge issues for centuries. For one person to have their rights, another person must lose theirs.

In addition to Paratus' comments, the fetus is not equal anyway and you do not believe they are equal. However, you also believe it is okay to take someone else's life in defense of your own body, so it is inconsistent for you to try to take that right away from women.

 

[mikeymikec]

I think the fairest summary of TH's position is that his idea of a 'moral obligation' is the one that represents the least tax burden. It's cheaper to force rape victims to bear the children of their rapists, then give them no meaningful support whatsoever.

It's also more than a little scary to hear him harp on about there being no difference between abortion and slavery, in doing so saying that a bundle of cells that he couldn't even tell what species they came from (let alone their complete inability to demonstrate sentience let alone humanity) and the kidnap for profit of fully functioning human beings who were perfectly capable of demonstrating sentience and humanity.

If a bundle of cells should be protected as if they're sentient and intelligent human beings, then surely every organism on the planet should be similarly protected.

 

[brycejones]

See therein lies the problem which demcrats have used as wedge issues for centuries. For one person to have their rights, another person must lose theirs.

Insert excessive amounts of LOL. Trollhiker your projection is showing again.

 

[dank69]

Insert excessive amounts of LOL. Trollhiker your projection is showing again.

It's his rationalization. He agrees with a lot of liberal policies but he was raised from birth to hate liberals and so he hates himself for liking those filthy policies and hates himself even more because deep down he knows he should be voting Democrat because the policies are better. Not just better, but the difference between engineered malice and solid evidence-based policy better.

Thus, he has to find a way to protect his ego from the guilt that causes and voila, Democrats make me vote Republican because abortion.

 

[Texashiker]

This is an excellent way to illustrate the problem with your thiinking. It is perfectly obvious to any moral person that protecting human life can't be a mistake and since progressives and liberals generally are just as moral an anybody else, that tells you right away you have characterized the issue improperly. Conservatives constantly make this mistake. The conservative brain doesn't like uncertainty and refuses to see anything but black and white on issues that evoke negative feelings. Thus by focusing on the life of the fetus there immediately arises in the conservative mind a blindness to all other subject related moral issues, the ones that introduce gray those very black and white issues. This limitation of thinking capacity of conservatives threatens to to actually make them less able to act in a morally appropriate way.

Love you Moonbeam XOXXOOO

It is our duty to protect the most variable in a given situation.

Between a woman, through her irresponsible decisions, and an unborn child, who is the most deserving of protection?

The one true answer should be the unborn child.

 

[Texashiker]

saying that a bundle of cells that he couldn't even tell what species they came from (let alone their complete inability to demonstrate sentience let alone humanity) and the kidnap for profit of fully functioning human beings who were perfectly capable of demonstrating sentience and humanity.

Is this what you are saying?

1 - All people are not created equal,

2 - Subjective barriers can be placed in front of people before they obtain they rights?

Birth is a subjective barrier.

 

[Paratus]

Love you Moonbeam XOXXOOO

It is our duty to protect the most variable in a given situation.

Between a woman, through her irresponsible decisions, and an unborn child, who is the most deserving of protection?

The one true answer should be the unborn child.

Didn’t bother to directly answer my questions I see. Can’t say I’m surprised.

Interesting though that rights which the constitution describe as inherent you believe can be removed from those who you think aren’t “deserving”.

 

[Jhhnn]

Didn’t bother to directly answer my questions I see. Can’t say I’m surprised.

Interesting though that rights which the constitution describe as inherent you believe can be removed from those who you think aren’t “deserving”.

Sluts! TH hates sluts! They need to suffer!

 

[mikeymikec]

Is this what you are saying?

1 - All people are not created equal,

2 - Subjective barriers can be placed in front of people before they obtain they rights?

Birth is a subjective barrier.

Nope, not even close. Which of course was what you were aiming for.

Honestly dude, why bother to go on a discussion forum when you're not willing to discuss the topic honestly.

 

[Jhhnn]

wrong button.

 

[Texashiker]

Unborn “children” die due to spontaneous abortion at a rate orders of magnitude more than caused by elective abortion. If that’s a problem for you take it up with nature or god or stop having sex or use protection.

If you and your family didn’t have a funeral for each one of the fertilized eggs that spontaneously aborted while trying to have kids congratulations you didn’t consider it la real child either.

So you say the unborn are the same as born kids and expect us to treat them that way yet you don’t treat them as such.

You say you abortion is like slavery which you are against but you wish to make pregnant women slaves.

Do you care to address either of these discrepancies in your position?

Ok, I will directly answer your question.

Spontaneous abortion - Act of nature / act of GOD. Nothing we can do about it.

Pregnant women slaves - They made their choice. It is not a matter of making women slaves, it is a matter of holding them accountable for their actions.

People give up certain rights when they commit certain actions. The idea that a personals rights can only be taken away by due process is BS. A person can take away their rights by their own hand.

• Play in the middle of a highway - You forfeit your right to life by your own hand.
• Jump out of a plane without a parachute - You forfeit your right to life by your own hand.
• Get pregnant - You forfeit your rights by your own hand.

The unborn child did NOTHING to forfeit their right to life.

Birth is a subjective barrier to rights. It is no different than being white to vote, being a free slave, being a property owner to vote... etc. Birth is a subjective an moveable barrier.

Creation is not a subjective barrier. Once the egg attaches to the uterus and cells begin to divide, it is a life. There is nothing subjective about that. By the very definition of life, dividing cells consuming nutrients is alive.

As Jefferson said in the Declaration of Independence - "We hold these Truths to be self-evident, that all Men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness."

For all people to be created equal, rights have to start at the time of creation.

 

[Moonbeam]

Love you Moonbeam XOXXOOO

It is our duty to protect the most variable in a given situation.

Between a woman, through her irresponsible decisions, and an unborn child, who is the most deserving of protection?

The one true answer should be the unborn child.

Love you too. The problem with your answer is that black and white thingi I described earlier. It's not that you are intentionally wrong but you are wrong because you can't see your only see the problem in black and white because you can't see shades of gray.

The issue is that you determine who is most deserving by telling yourself a fetus is more deserving because the mother has to be irresponsible. But that is actually irresponsible thinking itself. Conservatives are really good at taking a judgmental attitude toward what they regard as immoral because it is fear of punishment that lies too much as the heart of why they obey moral rules. The reason, then, for the black and white. 'irresponsible and undeserving' kind of thinking is that it would leave conservatives morally paralyzed without it. Without the ability to assign blame you would not be able to define guilt. But the problem is, the guilt is all created and made up by how conservatives think. You create it by black and white thinking. You are fixated on a single idea, the divinity of the fertilized egg and not the moral nightmare that kind of thinking brings. You don't look for the greater good once you're stuck in that rut.

 

[Moonbeam]

Ok, I will directly answer your question.

Spontaneous abortion - Act of nature / act of GOD. Nothing we can do about it.

Pregnant women slaves - They made their choice. It is not a matter of making women slaves, it is a matter of holding them accountable for their actions.

People give up certain rights when they commit certain actions. The idea that a personals rights can only be taken away by due process is BS. A person can take away their rights by their own hand.

• Play in the middle of a highway - You forfeit your right to life by your own hand.
• Jump out of a plane without a parachute - You forfeit your right to life by your own hand.
• Get pregnant - You forfeit your rights by your own hand.

The unborn child did NOTHING to forfeit their right to life.

Birth is a subjective barrier to rights. It is no different than being white to vote, being a free slave, being a property owner to vote... etc. Birth is a subjective an moveable barrier.

Creation is not a subjective barrier. Once the egg attaches to the uterus and cells begin to divide, it is a life. There is nothing subjective about that. By the very definition of life, dividing cells consuming nutrients is alive.

As Jefferson said in the Declaration of Independence - "We hold these Truths to be self-evident, that all Men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness."

For all people to be created equal, rights have to start at the time of creation.

There is a greater law. Humans are the product of evolution that included sex and the sex drive to propagate the species. Along the way humans also became conscious beings. The nature of consciousness is that no conscious being is going to be any more subject to the laws of biology then he or she has to, and that includes having a child against ones conscious will. The whole evolutionary advantage to consciousness is to consciously think and chose how you want to survive. Any conscious being with a modern education knows that consciousness evolved long after the autonomic imperative to reproduce because there were no conscious beings early on who could consciously choose to reproduce. But now that we can, we can also choose not to. Conscious beings via their conscious state have a right to reject having children involuntarily for whatever reason. Work on making a world with the minimum reason reasons to want an abortion.

 

[dank69]

Ok, I will directly answer your question.

Spontaneous abortion - Act of nature / act of GOD. Nothing we can do about it.

Pregnant women slaves - They made their choice. It is not a matter of making women slaves, it is a matter of holding them accountable for their actions.

People give up certain rights when they commit certain actions. The idea that a personals rights can only be taken away by due process is BS. A person can take away their rights by their own hand.

• Play in the middle of a highway - You forfeit your right to life by your own hand.
• Jump out of a plane without a parachute - You forfeit your right to life by your own hand.
• Get pregnant - You forfeit your rights by your own hand.

The unborn child did NOTHING to forfeit their right to life.

Birth is a subjective barrier to rights. It is no different than being white to vote, being a free slave, being a property owner to vote... etc. Birth is a subjective an moveable barrier.

Creation is not a subjective barrier. Once the egg attaches to the uterus and cells begin to divide, it is a life. There is nothing subjective about that. By the very definition of life, dividing cells consuming nutrients is alive.

As Jefferson said in the Declaration of Independence - "We hold these Truths to be self-evident, that all Men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness."

For all people to be created equal, rights have to start at the time of creation.

So men get to have as much sex as they want without ever having to worry about getting pregnant but women are not allowed to have sex at all from puberty to menopause unless they intend to fully gestate any resulting pregnancy. Does that sound right to you?

 

[DarthKyrie]

First, I have to clarify what *I* personally believe versus what I think is best for the country. For me, abortion is murder in any trimester; however, if I were king for a day I wouldnt ban it. Third trimester, however, as a general rule, I would. There are always extraneous circumstances that arise, and those should be treated as such. But when the baby can survive outside the womb, its murder.

Is that clear enough for you?

Here's a scenario for you: Say a couple finds out in the 2nd trimester that their child has a tumor growing off her tailbone and that couple is referred to specialists at an Ivy League's Hospital's Children's Hospital (Dartmouth College's Dartmouth Medical Center's CHaD) who have some damn good pediatric neurosurgeons. Say this same couple spends all of the 2nd trimester going back and forth seeing the different specialists. All the while the tumor is getting bigger and bigger while stealing more of her blood supply and more and more nerves are growing and things are becoming more complicated. Once it is decided that there is nothing that can be done at Dartmouth Medical Center they are referred to the best team east of the Mississippi River at the Children's Hospital in Philadelphia at the University of Philadelphia Medical Center.

If you haven't figured out by now this story is about me and is very personal and turned me into the cold-hearted prick I am today. I spent my 28th birthday on a Sunday in Camden, New Jersey at the Ronald McDonald House because we had appointments scheduled for the next day starting at 6:30 AM. After 12 hours of tests and meetings, we finally met with the team of neurosurgeons and found out there was nothing that could be done. At the same time, they were informing us that because of laws in every except Kansas that there was nothing we could do and that my girlfriend would be forced to carry our little girl to term just so we could watch her die. 22 days later on Christmas night 2002 at 23:50 Emily was born, she died December 26 at 00:10 of heart failure due to having to pump blood through a tumor that was half of her total body weight.

Because of you and people like you, we couldn't terminate the pregnancy which would have been done in a more humane way than the way it all unfolded. My daughter wasn't viable but we were still forced to go through with it. 2 days later my paternal grandfather died. On the same night, I had to attend 2 memorial services thankfully I only died at one.

A...are you fucking serious right now? I honestly cannot tell if this is a joke.

Based on posting history I would say serious.

 

[DarthKyrie]

So men get to have as much sex as they want without ever having to worry about getting pregnant but women are not allowed to have sex at all from puberty to menopause unless they intend to fully gestate any resulting pregnancy. Does that sound right to you?

That's the deal with these fucking men. Men get the Erectile Dysfunction meds so they can continue to spread their seed and the woman just get to deal with the consequences of men spreading their seed. You are supposed to also ignore the fact that these same men usually are against using government funds to support said children that are products of their forced-birth policies if they happen to be born to the poor, in that case, they shouldn't have been having sex.

 

[Moonbeam]

There is, of course, one sure way for men or women who believe abortion is a sin to absolutely do all in there rightful power to prevent it from ever happening and that is to seek medical sterilization for themselves personally.

 

[dingster1]

Please answer the question, if you defend abortion "because it is legal", what else will you defend? Where does your moral compass point? Or does it not point at all?

Because it was legal:

Slavery
Abortion
FDR Japanese-American internment camps
Carpet bombing of Dresden
Decimating Native American populations
Killing Mormons
Forced sterilization

All of that was ok because it was legal right?

Anyone who supports abortion is on the wrong side of history.

Wrong. People want the procedure to be safe. Back alley abortions will be the norm just as they were before we made them legal, and you will have women bleeding to death and rich women flying off to ge them done safely just as they always have. . Just because people want it to be safe does NOT equate to them agreeing to abortion on a personal moral level. I’m personally against abortion, but know that there are occasions when it is medically necessary. You CANNOT legislate morality.

 

[Texashiker]

Wrong. People want the procedure to be safe. Back alley abortions will be the norm just as they were before we made them legal, and you will have women bleeding to death and rich women flying off to ge them done safely just as they always have. . Just because people want it to be safe does NOT equate to them agreeing to abortion on a personal moral level. I’m personally against abortion, but know that there are occasions when it is medically necessary. You CANNOT legislate morality.

The "wrong" statement shows you are not really interested in an honest debate.

Let me ask you this, if abortion is not the must immoral thing ever created, then what is?

Once society justifies the killing of unborn children, what else will they justify? We have to draw a line in the sand somewhere. Where is that lien drawn?

For me, it is when the egg attaches to the uterus. I believe that all human life is created equal, and all human life deserves equal protection under the law.

So men get to have as much sex as they want without ever having to worry about getting pregnant

You have never been drug through child support court? Never lost a job, got behind on child support, and the local child support office asked the court for you to be thrown in jail until you can pay.

Have you?

Of course you haven't. If you had, you would not be making such silly posts.