Beer snobs must worse than wine snobs

[Fingolfin269]

Shocktop is awful and did not even deserve the time it took to write that review. Weird thing though, once I started reading the review I had a good idea it was going to be Shocktop when I clicked the link (Hooters gave it away). Damn my snobbery!

 

[Kirby]

A wine snob once asked, "What wine goes with this meal?" A wise man replied, "The kind that you like."

The same goes for beer. Drink what you like.

Yup. Justin Wilson ("I gua-ran-tee" Cajun chef) used to say that too.

 

[MarkXIX]

Name of this beer, plz. Manly men everywhere are waiting.

Yes. Only thing missing from that review would be a hint of gunpowder emanating from the head of the beer.

 

[zinfamous]

but ShockTop is a shitty beer.

also, lolGayner!

😀

 

[preslove]

Heh, here's a rule of thumb: If Quebert thinks it's good then it's either a scam or awful.

 

[zinfamous]

Americans haven't been trained to do anything. The market adapts to what sells the most, and on average, there are tastes for light beer and the cheaper price of wet aged meat.

I'm not sure how dry aged meat even enters into your mini-rant, but the costs are what make it prohibitive. Have you completely lost touch with the average American income and what they can afford? Turns out a $10 suitcase of Bud Light is pretty much that. You want to sell them $20/lb dry aged beef too?

American demand drives the market. You stick to criticizing Americans, but leave the economics to anyone else that knows what they're talking about.

nah, it was the effects of prohibition + depression that created the current standard of American Macrobrew = shit.

AB was basically the only player standing, with the type of distribution and production capable of reaching the entire market. As their depression era recipe demanded cheapness and availability--rice as a malt substitute as the grain supply of the US blew away with the dust bowl--the "American Standard" became tasteless rice beer.

wtf.

There was no market demand at all. It was what AB gives you, and that's what you'll take. It's quite easy to do that, though, when you consider that 10+ years of prohibition forced people into home brewing and distilling--people have become accustomed to a delicate "hairspray piquant" in their beverages, rice beer would taste glorious after that.

It's a shame, b/c AB really did make a world-class lager prior to prohibition and the introduction of rice, but never again. never again.

then, light beer became even cheaper. Then we create this image that it's cool, you can pound more and not get as fat! whatever. Nothing about choice, really.

 

[SaDiZTiKStyLeZ]

Shock Top wasn't that good anyway.

It also should be law that every bar has at least 5 rotating micros on tap at all times.

 

[sjwaste]

nah, it was the effects of prohibition + depression that created the current standard of American Macrobrew = shit.

AB was basically the only player standing, with the type of distribution and production capable of reaching the entire market. As their depression era recipe demanded cheapness and availability--rice as a malt substitute as the grain supply of the US blew away with the dust bowl--the "American Standard" became tasteless rice beer.

wtf.

There was no market demand at all. It was what AB gives you, and that's what you'll take. It's quite easy to do that, though, when you consider that 10+ years of prohibition forced people into home brewing and distilling--people have become accustomed to a delicate "hairspray piquant" in their beverages, rice beer would taste glorious after that.

It's a shame, b/c AB really did make a world-class lager prior to prohibition and the introduction of rice, but never again. never again.

then, light beer became even cheaper. Then we create this image that it's cool, you can pound more and not get as fat! whatever. Nothing about choice, really.

I entirely concede that those events introduced shitty beer to the American market. I don't think that's why tastes have remained so, however. We're talking events from over half a century ago. Every major industry has shifted drastically since then, and I don't think beer is going to be our vestige of the past.

Look at what Americans eat. Hell, go no further on this board and look at the food threads. People like cheap. People like bland. We've made a habit of demanding cost reduction, and have not backed off even as that's come at the expense of flavor or quality. There are a lot of people in the potential market, and the way to cater to them is to go to the lowest common denominator. Make a neutral beer and it'll sell to the most people - the people looking for cheap, those looking just to get drunk, etc. And then you don't have to deal with a diverse palate because there's no distinct flavor in any direction. Food in general has gone that way. Why is beer any different?

I just don't think the manufacturers continue to force us to eat and drink things that we don't actually like. We buy them because we like them.

 

[iGas]

Enjoy your drink and ignore the reviews.

Beer Review – Huda Beer, Live from Hue, Vietnam.

One of the better beer that I have had was Huda beer in Vietnam, and at 1993 price it was less than $ 0.10 USD a pint and water was $1.00 a bottle.

 

[JS80]

A wine snob once asked, "What wine goes with this meal?" A wise man replied, "The kind that you like."

The same goes for beer. Drink what you like.

Not necessarily. What if a person doesn't know what he likes? Here's an extreme example, let's say you like dessert wine, should you drink it with your steak dinner? Less extreme, Chardonnay with your steak dinner? Get my point?

Wine pairings aren't arbitrary. They are base recommendations based on what's good.

 

[preslove]

I entirely concede that those events introduced shitty beer to the American market. I don't think that's why tastes have remained so, however. We're talking events from over half a century ago. Every major industry has shifted drastically since then, and I don't think beer is going to be our vestige of the past.

Look at what Americans eat. Hell, go no further on this board and look at the food threads. People like cheap. People like bland. We've made a habit of demanding cost reduction, and have not backed off even as that's come at the expense of flavor or quality. There are a lot of people in the potential market, and the way to cater to them is to go to the lowest common denominator. Make a neutral beer and it'll sell to the most people - the people looking for cheap, those looking just to get drunk, etc. And then you don't have to deal with a diverse palate because there's no distinct flavor in any direction. Food in general has gone that way. Why is beer any different?

I just don't think the manufacturers continue to force us to eat and drink things that we don't actually like. We buy them because we like them.

You write a lot for someone who doesn't know what they're talking about.

Guess what? Macrobrew market share is shrinking. As people learn what good beer is, they stop drinking shitty beer. The only portion of the beer market that is growing is the craft market.

Man, all you "Anti-______ snobs" are just fucking ignorant assholes who get offended by people calling you dumb.

 

[JS80]

Here is a great study that discredits wine judges:

http://www.wine-economics.org/journ...ine economics_Robert T. Hodgson (105-113).pdf

lol that scatter chart on page 109 is awesome

Although couldn't you argue that the cause is due to natural selection? Only the "top" wines are submitted for judging, and you know past a certain "point" you can't really tell the difference. In my experience the wine point system is pretty accurate in terms of segregating "drinkable," total crap, and really good wine. But you take a subset of really good wine and judge it, you are going to get a random distribution.

 

[Howard]

I entirely concede that those events introduced shitty beer to the American market. I don't think that's why tastes have remained so, however. We're talking events from over half a century ago. Every major industry has shifted drastically since then, and I don't think beer is going to be our vestige of the past.

People will learn to like what they think they should like. Nobody grows up enjoying the taste of beer, so they latch onto something they're OK with and convince themselves they like it.

 

[xSauronx]

Think about what I want to do, and think about what you suggested. Which is cooler? I have tried beers at my bottle shop, but those aren't the house beers of Europe. They are the beers that can afford to export, which means they necessarily have a market in the US. I don't want US market beers, I want to try the beers my comrades across the globe drink.

while an admirable plan...you can still drink a boatload of good beer here in the US in the meantime. look for microbrews in your area, especially ones (or brew pubs) that offer samplers.

I live in a craptastic part of eastern NC, but fortunately within an hour drive or so are 2 great craft breweries. One is a dark beer specialist, and the other is constantly running small batches of things that you can only get at their taproom or in just a few local shops. I'll be a fan of both places for a long time.

 

[Brigandier]

while an admirable plan...you can still drink a boatload of good beer here in the US in the meantime. look for microbrews in your area, especially ones (or brew pubs) that offer samplers.

I live in a craptastic part of eastern NC, but fortunately within an hour drive or so are 2 great craft breweries. One is a dark beer specialist, and the other is constantly running small batches of things that you can only get at their taproom or in just a few local shops. I'll be a fan of both places for a long time.

I'm drinking some local beer right now. Keweenaw Brewing Company, ftw.

 

[Vic Vega]

Not necessarily. What if a person doesn't know what he likes? Here's an extreme example, let's say you like dessert wine, should you drink it with your steak dinner? Less extreme, Chardonnay with your steak dinner? Get my point?

Wine pairings aren't arbitrary. They are base recommendations based on what's good.

Does not compute.

If a person doesn't know what they like, they try different things. The problem is when other people decide what they like or what they MUST have. Your post is a good example. You discount someone's likes as them not actually knowing and then substitute your likes as what's good.

You're part of the problem.

 

[MagnusTheBrewer]

Americans haven't been trained to do anything. The market adapts to what sells the most, and on average, there are tastes for light beer and the cheaper price of wet aged meat.

I'm not sure how dry aged meat even enters into your mini-rant, but the costs are what make it prohibitive. Have you completely lost touch with the average American income and what they can afford? Turns out a $10 suitcase of Bud Light is pretty much that. You want to sell them $20/lb dry aged beef too?

American demand drives the market. You stick to criticizing Americans, but leave the economics to anyone else that knows what they're talking about.

And people wouldn't buy them if they didn't like them, or at least not dislike them enough to pay higher prices for better beer.

If Americans have shitty taste, it's not caused by the market. Manufacturers haven't "forced" anyone to drink shitty beer. It sells because people like it.

I entirely concede that those events introduced shitty beer to the American market. I don't think that's why tastes have remained so, however. We're talking events from over half a century ago. Every major industry has shifted drastically since then, and I don't think beer is going to be our vestige of the past.

Look at what Americans eat. Hell, go no further on this board and look at the food threads. People like cheap. People like bland. We've made a habit of demanding cost reduction, and have not backed off even as that's come at the expense of flavor or quality. There are a lot of people in the potential market, and the way to cater to them is to go to the lowest common denominator. Make a neutral beer and it'll sell to the most people - the people looking for cheap, those looking just to get drunk, etc. And then you don't have to deal with a diverse palate because there's no distinct flavor in any direction. Food in general has gone that way. Why is beer any different?

I just don't think the manufacturers continue to force us to eat and drink things that we don't actually like. We buy them because we like them.

You're confusing economics with taste and you have cause and effect exactly backwards. What is sold is what influences American tastes. Just as supermarkets have 'trained' Americans to like unripe fruit and vegetables, American beer manufs. have trained beer drinkers to like the lowest common denominator. They brew beer not to please the most people but to offend the least amount of people.

 

[mugs]

You like it because it's very drinkable, but that doesn't make it a good beer in the way BeerAdvocate members rate beer.

This is why I'm happy to not be a beer snob.

I tried a bunch of "better" beers, just didn't like them. They say it's an acquired taste, but I don't care to drink something I don't enjoy long enough to like it. They all just tasted bitter to me, and that's not a taste I really like.

 

[chalmers]

What beer snobs don't understand is that not everyone cares nearly THAT much about beer as they do. I don't give a shit about cars or learning how to repair them. I don't see mechanic snobs giving me shit. Not everyone has to care about everything as much as you do.

 

[CycloWizard]

Wine tasting has been discredited by a number of high profile studies. One study done in the early 2000's involved giving wine tasters the same white wine, but dyed red in one glass. They described the white wine as "fruity, light, etc etc" and the 'red' wine as "spicy, full-bodied, etc etc".

Studies done over decades have invariably shown the influence that the prestige or price has on a wine taster's review. I even heard about a study (that I haven't found myself so not sure if it's true) that gave wine tasters exactly the same wine several times in a blind test and the tasters all used completely different adjectives to describe the same wine, giving different glasses of it completely contrary reviews.

There are also plenty of studies which demonstrate the proficiency of elite wine judges by matching the judge's report of flavors and scents with the chemical makeup of the wine. There are many factors which influence taste, which is overall a subjective quantity in any case, but the ability to detect individual chemicals with your mouth and nose is objective and has been demonstrated in highly trained individuals. Buying beer or wine based on an inherently arbitrary score is a good way to spend a lot of money and usually get a pretty good product, but if you don't like the flavors in the wine/beer, you're still not going to enjoy a wine which was awarded 90+ points by Wine Spectator.

I'll also note that wine and beer can change character after being bottled and after it's poured. I sampled two bottles of a highly-prized wine, both of which had been stored under identical conditions for many years. One was "corked" and absolutely terrible, while the other was great. Similarly, if you pour a superior sherry but don't remove sediment or properly aerate it prior to drinking, it won't necessarily taste very good even if it's a superior bottle. Depending on who conducted the studies you mentioned, they may or may not have normalized these process variables, so the product being tasted may or may not have had the same chemical makeup (i.e. the taste may have been objectively different, even in "identical" wines).

 

[KeithTalent]

Meh, there are snobs at everything: music, food, movies, cars, books, video games...well pretty much everything. Some people care more and take the time to appreciate things differently, so those people people become "snobs" and the rest of the people remain ignorant. 😛

KT

 

[SaDiZTiKStyLeZ]

Meh, there are snobs at everything: music, food, movies, cars, books, video games...well pretty much everything. Some people care more and take the time to appreciate things differently, so those people people become "snobs" and the rest of the people remain ignorant. 😛

KT

Trufax.

 

[sjwaste]

You write a lot for someone who doesn't know what they're talking about.

Guess what? Macrobrew market share is shrinking. As people learn what good beer is, they stop drinking shitty beer. The only portion of the beer market that is growing is the craft market.

Man, all you "Anti-______ snobs" are just fucking ignorant assholes who get offended by people calling you dumb.

You start every response with something insulting. Do you wish to be taken seriously?

 

[sjwaste]

You're confusing economics with taste and you have cause and effect exactly backwards. What is sold is what influences American tastes. Just as supermarkets have 'trained' Americans to like unripe fruit and vegetables, American beer manufs. have trained beer drinkers to like the lowest common denominator. They brew beer not to please the most people but to offend the least amount of people.

This implies that the only things available are shitty beer and shitty produce. That's not true - good beer and good produce are readily available. It just so happens that economically, there is more demand for the (cheaper) inferior good than there is for the superior variety.

I have never disagreed with you that Americans have shitty taste. I just don't blame the large breweries, corporate farms, or industrial feed lots for that. I happen to think (and this is conjecture) that if you brought the price of Chimay down to the price of Bud Light, you'd still sell more Bud Light. Americans like bland, and they vote with their dollars on that.

 

[sjwaste]

Meh, there are snobs at everything: music, food, movies, cars, books, video games...well pretty much everything. Some people care more and take the time to appreciate things differently, so those people people become "snobs" and the rest of the people remain ignorant. 😛

KT

I don't agree with that. There's a big difference between a <blank>-snob and someone who appreciates something more than others. Mainly, it involves not being a dick about it when other people have different taste.

If you need more evidence, search for a PF Chang's thread here. Hah.