BANNING religious deals in the hotdeals forum?!?...UPDATE: BAN HAS BEEN LIFTED

[Netopia]

Christians kill MANY more people throughout history in the name of Jesus Christ than Nazis did in the name of Hitler.

Really? Ok, let's carry that out a little further. I could sleep in a barn, wear a saddle, eat hay and go around saying I was a horse, but would that REALLY make me a horse? NOPE. So... why don't we define things a little here. I think that a simple definition will do. A Nazi is a follower of the teachings of Hitler. A Christian is a follower of the teachings of Jesus.

Please show me where in history followers of Jesus have gone around killing people in His name.

JN 14:23 Jesus replied, "If anyone loves me, he will obey my teaching. My Father will love him, and we will come to him and make our home with him. 24 He who does not love me will not obey my teaching. These words you hear are not my own; they belong to the Father who sent me.

Please show me where Jesus ever says that anyone should kill anyone... or for that matter where He says that they should even repay evil with ANY SORT of evil. Point is, you can't. People can go to church, read the Bible (Stalin did), and make confessions of faith, but that doesn't make them Christians. Jesus says that you will know a person by the deeds they do. If you want to talk about Christians thats fine, but you wouldn't accept a KKK member in a white sheet saying "I'm a Jew" or "I'm a black man" because it would be obvious that the two (his sheet and his statement) would be diametrically opposed, so don't automatically accept that a person is a Christian just because some words come out of their mouths. Judge whether they are truly imitators of Jesus by what they actually do. Remeber, actions speak louder than words!

As for Russ... I'm going back to history again.... the first time Russ EVER had a harsh word against me was in a religious thread when I made a statement which compared some of Harvey's actions to Hitler. (sorry again Harv). Russ read me the riot act and dressed me down right there. HE DEFENDED AN ATHEIST FROM A CHRISTIAN'S STATEMENT. Russ's initial statement in this thread may have painted with a broad brush, but I assure you all that he DOES NOT consider all atheists.... or others.... equal in good or bad, but judges each (as should we all) based on their behaviour.

Joe

 

[Piblokto]

Hmm...I wonder if anyone will read this deep into the thread. Anyways, here goes:

As one of the original "thread crappers" from the free Billy Graham book thread, let me say that I'm not happy that mine and other posts helped result in the temporary cancellation of religously-themed hot deal postings. That was not my intent, and so I apologize to those of you who are unhappy with the current situation (in fact, I kinda knew I was crapping, and made a half-hearted attempt at apologizing in the thread-crapping post itself!). If you look at my posting history, I don't make a habit of thread-crapping.

I did read through this entire thread, and amongst the salvos being fired back and forth, there were a few good recommendation for how to fix the situation. My thoughts:
1. It would be great if Hot Deals could be broken down into "Hot Tech Deals" and "Hot Other Deals" (sorry, JokerSmoker), but if it can't (for whatever reason)...
2. I would favor that thread crapping simply be tolerated and ignored. No controversial religious/political hot deal thread is ever going to get the same number of replies as some of the uber hot deals (some of which have run to 1000+) posts, and most people will just ignore those threads once they realize that its just a flamefest.

Anyways, that's my two rubles.

 

[mikecrof]

Well here's another $.02 on the subject (that ought to bring the kitty up to about $1,987,248.52 by now, huh?) I think that ALL hot deals should be allowed in the hot deals forum (if it is the intent of the mods to allow other postings than just HW/SW). Obviously, some deals are hotter than others, and some see their deals as hotter than others do. This includes any deal which may be objectionable to one group of people or another. If you want to post a hot deal on abortion (to use an example previously mentioned), then post away in my opinion. If you are not interested in someones hot deal, then just ignore it, its as simple as that.

If there are no rules stating what is and is not acceptable for hot deals topics, then none should be banned for content. If the rules state that there will be no thread crapping, then those who do should be given a short vacation. If any of you are familiar with IRC you know this works well, if a forum states "read the rules" and you don't, you post at your own peril. In short, the rules should be read and obeyed, or the poster posts at his/her own risk to their being able to continue to contribute to the discussion.

Mods, please don't punish the group for the deeds of the few.

Members, please think before you type, remember that there are humanbeings on the receiving end of your words, and if you wouldn't say it to them face-to-face, maybe you shouldn't say it here either.

Finally, don't interpret my notions of cooperation with each other as pacifism, I enjoy a good debate, and even the occasional flame war, just as much as the next guy, but the hot deals forum is not the place for either.

 

[IshmaelLeaver]

Whether religion belongs in the Hot Deals forum is questionable in the first place. However, the behavior of not only the anti-religious people, but also the "Christians" in the threads seems to justify a permanant ban on the threads.

It was my understanding that Christians should try to live like Jesus, meaning:

-love everybody
-accept everybody
-forgive everybody
-accept challenges to their religion

I saw very little of that in those threads, it was mainly a "if you don't like it keep your mouth shut" attitude.

 

[ValsalvaYourHeartOut]

<< Christians kill MANY more people throughout history in the name of Jesus Christ than Nazis did in the name of Hitler.

Really? Ok, let's carry that out a little further. I could sleep in a barn, wear a saddle, eat hay and go around saying I was a horse, but would that REALLY make me a horse? NOPE. So... why don't we define things a little here. I think that a simple definition will do. A Nazi is a follower of the teachings of Hitler. A Christian is a follower of the teachings of Jesus.

Please show me where in history followers of Jesus have gone around killing people in His name.

JN 14:23 Jesus replied, "If anyone loves me, he will obey my teaching. My Father will love him, and we will come to him and make our home with him. 24 He who does not love me will not obey my teaching. These words you hear are not my own; they belong to the Father who sent me.

Please show me where Jesus ever says that anyone should kill anyone... or for that matter where He says that they should even repay evil with ANY SORT of evil. Point is, you can't. People can go to church, read the Bible (Stalin did), and make confessions of faith, but that doesn't make them Christians. Jesus says that you will know a person by the deeds they do. If you want to talk about Christians thats fine, but you wouldn't accept a KKK member in a white sheet saying "I'm a Jew" or "I'm a black man" because it would be obvious that the two (his sheet and his statement) would be diametrically opposed, so don't automatically accept that a person is a Christian just because some words come out of their mouths. Judge whether they are truly imitators of Jesus by what they actually do. Remeber, actions speak louder than words!
Joe >>



Oh, well SEE, that's EXACTLY where your Christian pseudo-logic falls flat on its face (as usual). It's so easy to claim hundreds of years after the fact (hindsight is 40/20) that the actions of "Christians" were not consistent with the Bible...but just as you are 100% positive that YOU are acting in accordance with the wishes of Jesus and the other 2/3 of the Trinity, SO WERE THEY. They TRULY believed that they had interpreted the bible correctly. Furthermore, had it not been God's will for the Christians to brutally slaughter their neighbors, it wouldn't have happened (and don't give me that "free will" malarkey). This is the bottom line: It is absolutely IRRELEVANT if you and the rest of your congregation can argue that these murdering Christians of past centuries were not acting in a Christian fashion. FAct of the matter is, THEIR interpretation of the bible, as well as the generally accepted beliefs of their time, told them to go kill the non-Christians and sieze their land. It was Christianity and its influence that ultimately JUSTIFIED their actions. They were absolutely 100% confident that they were correct with their interpretation, just as you are 100% confident with yours as well. You think YOU know God?? Well, my friend, these people thought THEY knew God too. And let me tell you something -- the bible is filled with passages that instruct Christians to kill and torment their non-Christian neighbors. Obviously, you weren't paying attention in Sunday school...unless...wait...maybe they didn't tell you that in Sunday School because it doesn't help the church's agenda -- such as controlling the political views and voting tendencies of its congregations and collecting that nice chunk of your yearly income.

Valsalva

 

[RaidMan]

OK, OK! I have read the thread. Bottom line is, A deal is a deal. We have had to put up with threads advertising anything from make-up to condoms. The person posting a religious deal did so with the same freedom as anyone else posting a deal. POSTING A RELIGIOUS DEAL DID NOT BREAK ANY FORUM RULES!! If it had THAT would be reason to lock and or move the thread and discussion. I agree, deal crappers are the ones that should get punished, NOT the deal posters! Mods, Make a policy and stick to it! Either state no religious deals or deal with the thread crappers seperately!

 

[Netopia]

I hope you're ready to back up much of what you posted with facts:



<< It's so easy to claim hundreds of years after the fact (hindsight is 40/20) that the actions of "Christians" were not consistent with the Bible. >>


So I won't talk about hundreds of years ago. How about Serbian soldiers who call themselves "christian" raping Moslem women in Bosnia and Herzegovina? I don't consider them to be Christians... it's one thing to talk the talk but another thing altogether to walk the walk. So... no hindsight... WHILE IT WAS GOING ON, I believed them to be non-Christian by their actions... as should you.




<< They TRULY believed that they had interpreted the bible correctly. >>


Please point me to the passages of the New Testement and the teachings of Jesus that they interpretted in order to commit murder. I don't need many... one would do nicely.



<< You think YOU know God?? >>


Only to a minor degree... exactly how much a finite being can grasp the infinite is an unanswered equation.



<< And let me tell you something -- the bible is filled with passages that instruct Christians to kill and torment their non-Christian neighbors. >>


This ought to be good. Again... show me just one passage where the Bible tells Christians to do anything bad to anyone. Now, perhaps you will resort to using passages directed at ancient National Israel to support your claims.... just like the KKK does... but then you wouldn't be showing where the Bible says anything to Christians, would you? I'll happily await your response.



<< ...maybe they didn't tell you that in Sunday School because it doesn't help the church's agenda ... >>


Rather judgemental, aren't we?



<< such as controlling the political views and voting tendencies of its congregations and collecting that nice chunk of your yearly income. >>


Please provide some info on how my church does these also... I'd be interested to see your facts... unless you were just spouting unsubstanciated fecal matter to see your own words in type! I rather think it's the latter.


If you would like to carry on a conversation of the merits or lack thereof of religion, might I suggest that you start a thread on that Topic and not crap on this one.
Joe

 

[IshmaelLeaver]

POSTING A RELIGIOUS DEAL DID NOT BREAK ANY FORUM RULES!!

Neither did thread crapping in the Hot Deals forum.

I guess I'm for making the Hot Deals forum for "technology-only" deals, since this is AnandTECH.

 

[WageSlave]

Please show me where in history followers of Jesus have gone around killing people in His name.


I am not attempting to say that christians are worse or comparable to Nazis.


However, did you miss out on the crusades? The first crusade was preached by the POPE in claremonte<france> dont have the date, sorry, im at school. The pope offered Salvation to anyone paritcipating in the crusades, and yes it was conducted in the name of God.


go ahead and do with that what you will, im not checking this thread anymore. There is more hate in here than I can stomache.

 

[dpk777]

so what if people crap the threads...they're fools who have nothing better to do.

just ignore them and get your hot deal.

 

[Optimus]

Thread topic:

The Mods are doing the best they can with a bad situation.

I hope they can devise a good plan for the future in keeping Hot Deals a tolerant and diverse place for all kinds of deals.



Valsalvaeatyourheartout: You are the #1-with-a-bullet name I recognize from past hot deals threads where you thread-crapped all over religion.

I like your argument about "People who were Christians did bad things in the past, therefore Christianity = bad". Very original. Like I haven't heard that one a zillion tired, repetitive times.

The actions of an individual who is a member of a belief/group - when those actions are contrary to the teachings/beliefs/principles of the group - does not represent the group or its beliefs/principles."

This is a universal fact - bad scientists acting "in the name of science" do not invalidate science. Bad Americans acting "in the name of patriotism" do not invaildate the principles of this great country.

Your argument is the single weakest, oldest, and most tired one I encounter. Please try a new one.



<< and don't give me that "free will" malarkey >>



LOL! It is logically sound that being forced to act a certain way - physically forced - negates freedom, which is an observable human good. And saying "don't give me that ____ malarky" doesn't invalidate the argument. I could then say "there is no reason we don't float off into space - and don't give me that gravity malarky".



<< the bible is filled with passages that instruct Christians to kill and torment their non-Christian neighbors >>



By all means - share some.


JackBurton:


<< Hey, I'd rather be a "bigot" than blind. >>



You mean you'd rather be a bigot that hold a belief that may or may not be wrong. You are that absolutely confident that you are right that it justifies bigotry?
How open-minded and enlightened of you.

And your language and communication skills clearly demonstrate your intellectual superiority to all.

F#%ing right, eh?

 

[Jzero]

Do you guys not realize that this thread illustrates why they were banned? For some reason the anti-religious zealots on this board who are by-and-large doubly blind-faithed and unintelligent as any religious zealot cannot figure out when and when not to STFU.

The mods were faced with a choice:
Ban religious hot deals (quick and easy)
Ban the mindless anti-religion NEFs who can't figure out which forum is HD and which is OT (PITA process).

I don't blame them.

I wouldn't crap on a deal for a free anti-Christian item. It's a shame others can't give that same respect.

 

[kgraeme]

Hey Valsalva! That's a great nickname you've got!

 

[kgraeme]

<< Do you guys not realize that this thread illustrates why they were banned? >>



Exactly. It's devolved into just another tirade about religion and name calling.



<< For some reason the anti-religious zealots on this board who are by-and-large doubly blind-faithed and unintelligent as any religious zealot cannot figure out when and when not to STFU. >>



I think it would be better to just say "zealots" and drop the anti-religious part. I understand your point, but there are intense flames coming from both sides.

 

[Nightfall]

I think taking the free religious items out of the Hot Deals forum is the best thing.

Lets face it, everyone here has certain veiws and opinions. I feel that you see the "Free Nazi Newspaper", "Free Bible", and "Free Satan Sticker" threads are more of people just shoving their views on others. Those other people, who obviously defend their views, get pissed off and the flames begin. We all have differing views and these pointless threads should be removed.

In addition, there should be no religious type deals in the Hot Deals forum. Put them in here instead if you are so inclined to do so. Problem solved. Putting them in the Hot Deals forum just starts a huge debate.

Just my two cents.

 

[FrugalGuy]

This was a new post by the mods. It lists the rules for posting in the hot deals forum



<< What about COURTESY?

No thread crapping. If the subject matter of deal does not interest you, do not post negative comments about it, or about other members, in the thread.

Possibly the worst examples we have had of this have been in posts for free religious items, such as bibles, etc. If you want to discuss religion, or any other such non-computer topic, do it in our Off Topic forum. The discussions in that forum cover a wide range of topics, but needless flaming and rude, mean-spirited posts are not welcome there, either. >>




Thanx Mods...Appreciate your work

 

[AnandTech Moderator]

Ladies, Gentlemen, Flamers, Lurkers, Believers, Non-believers, Geeks and Ferengi (did I miss anyone?):

As you may have noticed, we did not bar discussion of this matter in this forum, even though many of you seem to have missed the point of our actions, as stated in our original post in Hot Deals.

<< We really do not want to ban all the rude little children who can't control themselves, so for now, NO MORE DEALS FOR RELIGIOUS ITEMS. >>

Were far too many members acting like rude little children? Were we angry about what was going on? You bet we were, and we believed immediate action was necessary. But mass bannings would only have caused more problems for both our members and our moderators. That is why we TEMPORARILY suspended these threads while we considered ways to prevent such problems in the future.

Now, after two days, we have now removed the suspension notice from Hot Deals and posted our Hot Deals Forum Rules. We hope they address this problem and others and that they provide fair, meaningful guidelines for our members. As with our other forums, you are welcome to PM us or discuss any changes you believe should be made in Forum Issues.

 

[AaronP]

I consider myself an Athiest, and I gotta tell ya, many of the athiests on this board sicken me. The people like JackBurton who say crap like "religious propaganda" and compare it to Nazi propaganda are human scum. I think JackBurton should be banned.

I have no problem with religious hot deals, and I don't know why any athiest would. If you get annoyed or bothered when a religious person tries to push their religion on you, you should also get annoyed and bothered when an athiest does the same thing.

And posting a bible hotdeal is not propaganda, its not offensive, and it doesn't hurt anyone. Some people just go out looking for things to take offense at, they enjoy painting themselves as an oppressed party or a victom.

 

[taserT]

the onslaught of religous materials now begins!

 

[kgraeme]

For the non-subscribers:

Hot Deals Forum Rules

Forum Issues

---

Thanks. I fixed our link, too.

AnandTech Moderator

---

And I just noticed that one of mine linked to the subscriber's login anyway.

 

[LordMaul]

<<

<< Nothing, of course. It is just one of the usual atheist bigot tactics to compare Christians to nazis. >>


Give me a F$$KING break! You know, I used to have some respect for you man, but that went right out the window. >>





BHWAHAHAHAHAHAHAhaHAHAhaahAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!

That's enough humor for me this morning...

Just FYI, that's an EXTREMEMLY common "tactic" used against Russ. When someone wants Russ to feel bad, they say they lsot respect for him. Happens ...how many times a WEEK, Russ?

Sorry guys, but Russ couldn't give any less of a piece of dog crap about your respect. I don't see why he should...


hahahahaha...

 

[calbear2000]

<< I consider myself an Athiest, and I gotta tell ya, many of the athiests on this board sicken me. The people like JackBurton who say crap like "religious propaganda" and compare it to Nazi propaganda are human scum. I think JackBurton should be banned.

I have no problem with religious hot deals, and I don't know why any athiest would. If you get annoyed or bothered when a religious person tries to push their religion on you, you should also get annoyed and bothered when an athiest does the same thing.

And posting a bible hotdeal is not propaganda, its not offensive, and it doesn't hurt anyone. Some people just go out looking for things to take offense at, they enjoy painting themselves as an oppressed party or a victom. >>



I sincerely hope that people like you represent the typical atheist - it would be a disappointing shame for the human race if the few loud ignorant teenager bigots that litter religious threads with their intolerance and ridiculous accusations represented the majority, and not the minority, of atheists.

 

[Jzero]

<< I think it would be better to just say "zealots" and drop the anti-religious part. I understand your point, but there are intense flames coming from both sides. >>


I would normally say just zealots. In the case of thread-crapping religious freebees, however, the first shots come from the anti-religion folks. Here in OT, however, both sets of zealots share the blame

Re: AaronP:

<< I sincerely hope that people like you represent the typical atheist. >>


He definitely is. The zealots from both religious and non-religious groups are a small, but vocal group. Believe me--for every zealot on this board, there are 100 who believe what they believe and that is that.

 

[SilentRunning]

I wish people would quit making blanket statements about typical atheists, typical Christians or typical anything. This issue has nothing do with anything but rudeness and immaturity. When you walk out your front door you are confronted with a population of diversity in beliefs and customs. You interact with people on a daily basis of whom you never know their beliefs. So don't try to categorize an entire group by the actions of a few.


Edit: I am assuming that most people here have front doors, and I apologize if I unintentionally offended anyone who does not.

 

[JackBurton]

<< I consider myself an Athiest, and I gotta tell ya, many of the athiests on this board sicken me. The people like JackBurton who say crap like "religious propaganda" and compare it to Nazi propaganda are human scum. I think JackBurton should be banned. >>


On what grounds? I made a LEGITIMATE comparison, FREE Bible vs FREE swastika. Why would one be aloud and the another not in the HOT DEALS forum? Simple question that EVERYONE has ignored. Why? Because they don't have a good answer for it. They just want to go along with their agenda of keeping religious crap in the forum.

And as for your "human scum'" comment, I'm going to be crying my eyes out over what you think of me. Unfortunately for you, my comparison HAS merit.

And since I've read the NEW rules, it looks like posting FREE swastikas in the HOT DEALS forum is aloud! GREAT! I hope no one is going to crap in my thread. Hey, it's now against the rules.



- And for the record, I don't like Nazis. I make reference to them to create a BIG picture, however MOST of the people here "conveniently" miss it. But that's ok. This is only a message board and I've learned you can't change a person's mind, they have to do it for themselves.