That's why I said SOME of them.. Chris,Ailuros and in part Chalnoth are three of that group that I respect their opinion and knowledge. They gained that respect from me, through their posts and work, it was not given to them as if I was a biased or ignorant kid.Also for example someone can talk about Dave Baumann from the other side, which eventually ended up working for ATI. Can someone with at least a two digit IQ, can tell me that Dave was not and still is, a heck of a guy just because of his recent agenda? Should I not trust him anymore and listen to his posts JUST because he works for ATI? Cmon man. EVERYONE makes his own identity and is judged accordingly to it. You can see from their total picture if eventually they tend to support a side,but what do I care if this is only a small portion in comparison to what they had offered me in return with their knowledge? OTOH now if we are talking about guys like Rollo or Fred Sanford or whatever his real name is I can understand you. These guys were the ones that potentially damaged the "names" of those ppl that were in that group. And you do very well not tot trust ANYONE. The very existence of a marketing group, is sufficient by itself to create moral issues and questions as to what these ppl were really asked to provide in return for their rewards. But OTOH judging an individual just by this, is equally wrong imho. As I said I can almost talk with certainty, that at least Chris and Ailuros were rational and objective up to the point of my understanding. All I can remember is the knowledge that I acquired and still acquire from their posts. And eventually as I said you are a rational individual IF you find some of their posts somewhat supportive of a side just filter those out. As we should always do a thorough investigation of our objective. IF you avoid such individuals just because of their previous agenda I can assure you from my personal experience(and I believe I'm not alone) that you're missing a lot of valuable information and feedback. It's like saying to me that I should avoid B3D @ the era of Dave over there just because I was suspicious of him being an ATI supporter and eventually my thoughts were true. What do I care as long as Dave never really dared me or others with his posts, and OTOH helped me with his incredible work? You can't filter out of your research all those that you potentially believe that they might be supportive of a side. That would pretty much leave you with noone.. You just have to have critical thinking(which I think you have that's why I'm discussing with you) and filter the "unecessary" posts outside,because otherwise it's your loss IMHO..
apoppin
Lifer
ChrisRay *impressed* me with his public apology and his concern for his own integrity and that of his site..
OTOH, i can't imagine Rollo doing Chris did.
what we ASKED nvidia for was TRANSPARANCY ... aeg is gone [i can't imagine nvidia was pleased with them] ... nvidia's viral marketing is and has been "in house" foe awhile now
so now when you see a ChrisRay post you can *weigh* it based on his public association with nvidia
and not all the "reviews" are unbiased either.
The difference betweeen Baumann and ChrisRay is that Baumann operated off of incorrect knowledge/opinion several times (doom3 optimizations, effect of FP16 on half-life 2, how _PP works in general), even ridiculed nvidia in the forums for still having texture combiners in GF-FX (Which led, I believe, to nvidia dropping all support for them around FW75 meaning that demos and games that use them don't work correctly anymore), whereas, you'll frequently see ChrisRay go out of his way to help people with ATi cards and issues
Interesting thread but I don't know why anyone would want to post on either of Nvidia's forums unless you were just a drooling fanboy. It's also interesting to see the names of people posting over there and how many are very active and familiar names in this forum as well. You will never see me posting on any of Nvidia's official forums nor ATI's(if they have any, I truly have no idea if these exist or not).
It also seems disingenuous that moderators from that site like Chris Ray pretend to be selflessly "working hard to solve problems" when the truth of the matter is that their forums are simply another Nvidia marketing device. His desire to help anyone there or anywhere else is driven to sell more Nvidia product.
Nvidia has left a bad taste in my mouth by secretly using people like Rollo to sell their products. Having Nvidia rename AEG or whatever they did to make it go away doesn't alter the fact that Nvidia used dubious and underhanded methods to market their products. And seeing them reward Rollo by making him a moderator on one of their official forums isn't giving me the feeling that they are sorry for using that tool(I mean that in the literal sense) on these forums but rather that they are sorry he got caught.
I really wish my last purchased videocard wasn't an Nvidia card so that someone could accuse me of being a fanATIc, lol.
It also seems disingenuous that moderators from that site like Chris Ray pretend to be selflessly "working hard to solve problems" when the truth of the matter is that their forums are simply another Nvidia marketing device. His desire to help anyone there or anywhere else is driven to sell more Nvidia product.
Nvidia has left a bad taste in my mouth by secretly using people like Rollo to sell their products. Having Nvidia rename AEG or whatever they did to make it go away doesn't alter the fact that Nvidia used dubious and underhanded methods to market their products. And seeing them reward Rollo by making him a moderator on one of their official forums isn't giving me the feeling that they are sorry for using that tool(I mean that in the literal sense
) on these forums but rather that they are sorry he got caught.I really wish my last purchased videocard wasn't an Nvidia card so that someone could accuse me of being a fanATIc, lol.
http://finance.yahoo.com/q?s=NVDA
one place to speak your mind & to ask to be re-admitted
to the forums - the nVidia stock message boards at Yahoo.
one place to speak your mind & to ask to be re-admitted
to the forums - the nVidia stock message boards at Yahoo.
[sarcasm mode ON]You see Ronn? Now all I need to do is to filter out myself some of the useless/biased posts in this thread.. And it is so difficult to find them.. :disgust: [sarcasm mode OFF]
And it is so difficult to find them.. :disgust: [sarcasm mode OFF]
Pr0d1gy
Diamond Member
- Jan 30, 2005
- 7,774
- 0
- 76
Wow, what is the obsession jim? You're not helping your, or Chris', cause in any way by continuing to insult the rest of us in here. Nice to see I got thrown in with the rest of this crew when I recently used a 6600gt. Still, while using the 6600 over a year ago I told you people that folks were getting paid to push nVidia in here. Yet, I come back in here so much later hoping that Rollo's banning would even things out but what do I find? His long lost brother in the form of you insulting everyone in a thread where the overall sentiment is pretty much shared by everyone. You guys are just going to have to face facts.
nVidia though the market was like this:
50% fanboy
30% easily attracted noob
20% educated consumer
And it's actually like this:
50% educated consumer
30% bargain shopper
15% easily attracted noob
5% fanboy
Get over it & move on, because personal attacks are not allowed here and your attitude is completely unwelcome & frowned upon. I suggest you see the light quick, it's right outside that room your computer is in. Seriously, get up & go outside for an hour or two. You won't care about nVidia or ATi anymore because you will realize they both suck and the one who should get your money is the one who earns it.
nVidia though the market was like this:
50% fanboy
30% easily attracted noob
20% educated consumer
And it's actually like this:
50% educated consumer
30% bargain shopper
15% easily attracted noob
5% fanboy
Get over it & move on, because personal attacks are not allowed here and your attitude is completely unwelcome & frowned upon. I suggest you see the light quick, it's right outside that room your computer is in. Seriously, get up & go outside for an hour or two. You won't care about nVidia or ATi anymore because you will realize they both suck and the one who should get your money is the one who earns it.
By all means I think you misunderstood me.. I think we all know who am I referring too m8..
As for teh personal attacks I don't think I went that far.. I'm just annoyed that some of the users find it so easy to criticize some knowledgeable individuals w/o having a clue about their true identity..
But up to a point you're right.. I cannot change the ignorance of some ppl in here or everywhere else..I just have to let it go, as I do in the vast majority of cases in every forum.. It's just that sometimes some things are so tragic that I need to let it go..
That is bs really. Chalnoth is the rollo of b3d. Polite like that group is but full of pro nv crappola in the r600 thread. He by definition is a person that spreads fud about the competition very competently. B3d has lost alot of respect with me, by allowing nvidia to use them this way. ----- This is not about who makes the best hardware - this is about sleazy viral marketing. I stick to my opinion that viral marketing is destroying the credibility of internet tech sites.
Keysplayr
Elite Member
- Jan 16, 2003
- 21,211
- 50
- 91
Why is it destroying it now? Because now we know about it as opposed to it being a big secret? FYI, viral marketing has been around since.... forever. I'm not talking years here, but centuries. You don't need the internet for viral marketing. So, please don't act like this is a new thing that is now suddenly destroying everything.
/rant
I don't like this viral marketing thing. You probably couldn't tell by my above comments, but that was just trying to tell you that it's nothing new. Not that I condone it in any way.
/disclaimer
That's why I said in part.. Chalnoth has knowledge but he's biased and manipulative..Nevertheless he's not Trollo by any means..
Nm.. I think we went too far with this, and personally I don't wanna be accused of backing up some of them suspiciously.. I think the essence of our opinions has been well passed so no reason for me to continue this conversation..
Talk about one-sidedness! What about all the B3D members that do nothing but bash nvidia constantly? If you were to remove their posts from the forums, the forum database would shrink by 90%. If you were to remove Chalnoth, Ailuros and ChrisRay's posts you would hardly notice a difference!
The only reason people don't like Chalnoth is because he purchased a 9700 Pro and dared to criticize what he didn't like about it -- at a time when it was expected that you were to worship the card publically.
Because most people aren't G80 owners.
You can still make critisicm, afterall it's free speech (and is expected in this kind of environment).
But there's little validity in an argument against lack of driver support for a product yet to release to consumers.
I would hate to start another one of the mega-page flames where both sides go back and forth "Vista isn't launched yet!" vs. "Yes it is!"
So we can agree to disagree on the issue....
Nelsieus
Actually I don't recall (could be wrong) Chalnoth troubling himself about something as pathetic as drivers for unreleased operating systems. He focussed on useability in linux and texturing quality iirc (real issues that time hasn't fixed not trivial fanatic nonsense).
Pr0d1gy
Diamond Member
- Jan 30, 2005
- 7,774
- 0
- 76
Fair enough jim, I can understand that, I have been there. Just try not to get too caught up in this stuff as this forum has had it's share of problems over the past 18 months and it would be best for everyone to not have it head down that road again.
He did mention linux once or twice. Mainly he discussed poor texture quality of the 7800 line. :laugh:
But you've been arguing that most are G80 owners - Click
How can you claim that the G80 "dominates" Tiger Direct's top 10, Pricegrabber, and the results of the Steam Survey and attempt to simutaneously argue that "most people aren't G80 owners"?
What, do I need your permission or something?
It has been released on certain channels. The fact that that channel isn't one you traffic has no bearing on whether or not it is launched.
The same logic your arguing could be used to say that a vaccine for West Nile used in Africa doesn't exist because it isn't being used in the U.S.A. The fact that Vista isn't available at the market you prefer doesn't mean it's not available at all. And if you think a company or a private business isn't a consumer, you should re-read the definition as to what a consumer is.
You yourself said that -
and you never answerd my question:
I've always said that I don't feel complete sympathy for the current Vista users, but I do feel that they are entitled support (to whatever extent it may be) for products that they were told would be supported. Especially if they made valid purchases for those products.
:roll:
Right, that's why you just said -
I never said he did or didn't. I was discussing the principle of the matter.
You were suppporting Chalnoth for discussing a very powerful card's shortcomings during its hay-day, which is exactly the same thing that many posters / owners are doing about the G80 and Vista.
Heck, it doesn't even have to be Vista. Certain posters were still disregarding G80 flaws even with XP and nVidia's lack-luster early drivers in this thread. As time passed, it became published on review sites such as Xbit that indeed there were some initial problems with the G80, despite those certain poster's wishful objections.
Link? From what I've seen out of xtknight's posts, it seems that ATi has improved their Linux support quite a bit since then.
Regardless, the prinicple of the matter was what I was discussing. Depending on the poster, and vendor under scrutiny, you're opinions change eventhough the evidence and techniques being used are identical under a practical viewpoint.
Chalnoth is involved in a lot of things. That's not the point.
Just try to stay focused here G. He hard-pressed a powerful card in its hay-day, just as many others who pronounce G80's short-comings now. The only reason why you're not upset or argumentative with Chalnoth is because of the vendor under analysis.
Not true at all. Chalnoth had lots of good things to say about R300 back then and was crtical of nv3x.
Give up the character assassinations of the ex-AEG members -- it won't work. Rollo was the only "bad apple" of the bunch (and even then anybody can see that his posting style was the same as before his AEG involvement).
Give up the character assassinations of the ex-AEG members -- it won't work. Rollo was the only "bad apple" of the bunch (and even then anybody can see that his posting style was the same as before his AEG involvement).
You're the only one wanting to concentrate on Chalnoth. Chalnoth, Shmalnoth, doesn't matter. I've said earlier the point was the principle I was discussing. I don't see what is so complicated about it.
Cookie Monster
Diamond Member
- May 7, 2005
- 5,161
- 32
- 86
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