Banned for Bad Tipping

[Venix]

How many times does it need to be posted that it's law that they make minimum wage? That argument is so old it doesn't count at all. You guys are fine giving people something extra for doing nothing but I'm not. I prefer people earn things. They do a good job I tip them, they do nothing that warrants extra then they get no extra but I forget this is ATOT and everyone has millions of dollars to give out to everyone no matter how crappy they are at their job. Oh and I didn't know I was a deadbeat thief and was breaking the law. People need to earn it plain and simple and too many servers except to be tipped no matter how bad of a job they do which fits well with this handout society we have.

You aren't giving them anything extra. The food is provided to you at a discounted rate with the expectation that your gratuity will cover the server's wage.

Yes, the restaurant is required to pay at least minimum wage if the base wage plus tips doesn't exceed it. In that situation you're even more of a deadbeat thief, since now you're screwing both the server and the restaurant. Do you think that the restaurant owner just magically pulls extra money out of his ass to pay the servers you stiff?

 

[Via]

Dammit, why did I click on this tread.

When I go out out eat I might get a good server, I might get a bad one.

It's a gamble - I know that going in.

But if I can't afford to tip I don't go out.

Period.

 

[alkemyst]

Can you describe what it is you feel is worth the extra tip at the higher end places? What are they doing on top of taking your order and bringing your food and drinks? Are they doing backflips, juggling flaming bowling pins, and reciting poetry for you?

you aren't paying 'more' you are paying the same percentage.

 

[Skyclad1uhm1]

I by far prefer the way it is here in the Netherlands. All Restaurant employees get a regular wage, and you can tip if you like the service. It's not that you are forced to tip for crappy service here.

 

[KingGheedora]

you aren't paying 'more' you are paying the same percentage.

If i'm paying a percentage, and my total is more, then I'm tipping more. That is my point i only really mind tipping once I am eating at really expensive places since they get more on the basis that my meal was more, but they aren't doing anything more than what the staff does at a place that is half the price.

 

[alkemyst]

Well then you need to stick to Fridays and the like.

You are probably the type that argument your bitchin' Ford Focus is no different other than speed to a Porsche GT3.

 

[3chordcharlie]

How many times does it need to be posted that it's law that they make minimum wage? That argument is so old it doesn't count at all. You guys are fine giving people something extra for doing nothing but I'm not. I prefer people earn things. They do a good job I tip them, they do nothing that warrants extra then they get no extra but I forget this is ATOT and everyone has millions of dollars to give out to everyone no matter how crappy they are at their job. Oh and I didn't know I was a deadbeat thief and was breaking the law. People need to earn it plain and simple and too many servers except to be tipped no matter how bad of a job they do which fits well with this handout society we have.

You're a real piece of work.

No a tip isn't 'guaranteed'. I eat out at a sitdown restaurant once a week or more (much more if you count breakfast at a diner), and about once every other year I get service so bad that a 'no tip' is in order. To me this means if the food was reasonable, 3% to cover the kitchen tipout. It also means specifically saying something to either the server, or the manager.

Otherwise, at an ordinary restaurant:

- bring me what I ordered, while it's still hot/cold/whatever it should be,
- refill my glass once or twice during the meal
- don't make me wait 5+ minutes for simple requests like 'the bill'

= 15%

Over and above this I'm more than willing to pay more, and I do, frequently.

I'm not sure why so many believe that they should be served by people making poverty wages. I've never felt that way; a good server can make a big difference to the meal experience compared with a poor or average one even when they're serving the exact same food.

And yes, a really great server at a higher priced restaurant can make a good deal of money, and if they help patrons get good value for their $500 spent on supper (which, let's face it, is a tough thing to do!), then they absolutely deserve their $75-150 tip.

At that level, it is likely that hundreds of people applied for the job, and the person serving the table was hired; there was probably a good reason, and it wasn't because they were willing to work for poverty wages.

 

[rh71]

That system would be much better than our tipping system. However, if you tried it here under current laws, you could be arrested. I've not been to restaurants in Asia, unless Turkey counts. The service there was pretty good, but nothing extraordinary. Perhaps we need a tipping system here because we have such low standards for service?

over there the waiters just do their fucking job... what a concept.

The restaurant pays its employees considerably less than the prevailing wage (often less than minimum wage) based upon the expectation that customers will tip. Consequently, the food is offered at a lower price than it would be if employee wages were included.

Sorry you don't see anything wrong with this? They already charge me $9 for a burger and you're saying it would be even more if they had to pay their employees a REGULAR amount? WTF kind of fuct up system is that?

What's more... regular sit-down places without waiters like Boston Market, Fuddruckers do just fine... what is this BS about being waited on (more like you're doing the waiting) and WANTING to pay them for it? Are we spoiled rich kids or old fogies who like that sort of thing? Food may be better at a waitered-sit-down, but the concept of paying a regular employee yourself after paying full menu price is what's just wrong.

 

[3chordcharlie]

Sorry you don't see anything wrong with this? They charge me $9 for a burger and you're saying it would be even more if they had to pay their employees a REGULAR amount? WTF kind of fuct up system is that?

One that existed long before you were born to pass judgement.

Otherwise we would have asked you if that was how you wanted things to work, obviously.

That's the social contract; it's how restaurants work in Canada and the USA. If you don't like it, stop eating at restaurants.

 

[rh71]

One that existed long before you were born to pass judgement.

Otherwise we would have asked you if that was how you wanted things to work, obviously.

That's the social contract; it's how restaurants work in Canada and the USA. If you don't like it, stop eating at restaurants.

You're basically saying nothing here... you know that right? "It's just the way it is." WELL THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR YOUR COUNTERPOINTS.

 

[3chordcharlie]

You're basically saying nothing here... you know that right? "It's just the way it is." WELL THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR YOUR COUNTERPOINTS.

Sorry - you're the one who wants to rewite the contract here.

The relative merits of tipping have been discussed, rehashed, and recycled about a dozen times in this thread. And then in you step with 'yeah, well tipping is stupid'.

Brilliant!

This is almost as good as abortion and evolution threads, where you get someone on page 15 piping up with 'yeah, but there's no evidence for evolution at all. None.'

Seriously - if you don't like being served, don't go to places that serve you! If you really want the food, and not the service, most low-end and mid-level restaurants will do takeout if you ask nice, and then there won't be any reason to tip.

Asshole.

 

[rh71]

The relative merits of tipping have been discussed, rehashed, and recycled about a dozen times in this thread. And then in you step with 'yeah, well tipping is stupid'.

Brilliant!

Except I've actually said something 3 times in this thread (and many times in the past - yet this is the best defense you or anyone can come up with). I "piped up" again because the excuse that our prices would be EVEN HIGHER if their employees were paid normally is just asinine. That sounds like something a restaurant owner would say. You think paying $9+tax+tip for a burger is the way to go? I'm not questioning whether you have the means... people here are saying they actually like this and are thankful that the price is so low because the owner was nice enough not to pay his employee and we get to do it! Want to calculate how much that burger costs you now? "Commonly accepted" makes it all ok?

"If you don't like it, don't do it" has nothing to do with right and wrong... as a matter of fact, that makes it sound like you know it's wrong in the first place. Just say so.

Idiot.

 

[3chordcharlie]

Except I've actually said something 3 times in this thread. I "piped up" again because the premise that our prices would be EVEN HIGHER if their employees were paid normally is just asinine. That sounds like something a restaurant owner would say. You think paying $9+tax+tip for a burger is the way to go? I'm not questioning whether you have the means... people here are saying they actually like this and are thankful that the price is so low because the owner was nice enough not to pay his employee and we get to do it! Want to calculate how much that burger costs you now? "Commonly accepted" makes it all ok?

"If you don't like it, don't do it" has nothing to do with right and wrong... as a matter of fact, that makes it sound like you know it's wrong in the first place.

Idiot.

The server serves YOU, not the restaurant. YOU are fully justified in making your own decision about the quality of service, which means YOU have a great deal of control over what the server earns for looking after YOU.

There is a socially agreed standard for what average, competent service should be paid, but you aren't even 'required' to pay that!

So you get to decide what the service is worth to you, and the best part is the server has to 'go first', so you pay only after the service is delivered, and aren't even obligated to do that.

You can walk out of every restaurant you eat at for the rest of your life without ever tipping, and no one can chase you down the street demanding more money. Just don't expect any kind of service if you ever go back to the same place; you'll get exactly the service you paid for the first time.

What the fuck are you complaining about? The system is stacked in your favour, and actually allows you to continue being an asshole with no repercussions.

 

[rh71]

The system is stacked in your favour, and actually allows you to continue being an asshole with no repercussions.

why was this thread started again? Oh that's right, repercussions.

There is a socially agreed standard for what average, competent service should be paid, but you aren't even 'required' to pay that!

oh is that why we have countless tipping threads?

What the fuck are you complaining about?

I'm pretty sure this is clear by now... but in case you still don't get it... a $7/hr type of employee is handling multiple tables at a time and makes a lot more than $7/hr., and the owner gets to only pay him a deuce. Who wins here? Owners & waiters. Yet people like you make excuses and say we the customer come out on top after paying twice the cost of the product even with mediocre service. Good one.

 

[torpid]

Can you describe what it is you feel is worth the extra tip at the higher end places? What are they doing on top of taking your order and bringing your food and drinks? Are they doing backflips, juggling flaming bowling pins, and reciting poetry for you?

So you admit you've never been to a high end place then? If you had, this would be pretty obvious. They participate heavily in the entire process, including staff meetings to talk about what to serve, how, and when, and they do things you probably didn't even know anyone would think of at restaurants.

At Alinea, they are a key element in the overall experience of dining. There are 4-5 people per 5-6 tables and they can fill in for each other at any table at any time and do so without any direct communication to indicate that it is necessary. At all points in the evening there is at least one person standing within about 20 feet of each table in the restaurant. They perfectly place each plate (e.g. they have meetings about which direction each dish in the 24 course meal should face and when it should arrive), make sure no plate ever arrives with someone at the restroom, make sure that the kitchen slows down or speeds up the dishes for that particular table according not only to the general pace of the diners but any specific timing occurring during a particular dish, ensure that all dishes for all individuals at a table arrive at the exact same time (by communicating with each other and the kitchen constantly), offer explanations not only of ingredients but every cooking technique used (each dish probably has roughly 20-40 ingredients, 5-6 sub-dishes each using different cooking techniques, and there are 24 of them plus any variations for dietary restrictions), plus they all know everything about every wine they serve despite the fact that they do have a dedicated sommelier. Any time someone even looks like they are about to get up to use the restroom, they pull the chair aside, escort you to the restroom, make sure your napkin is replaced and re-folded when you arrive, and escort you back. When you arrive, if you used their inexpensive valet, they note which car is yours and have it pulled up and ready to enter exactly when you are leaving without you having to say a word.

That is roughly 50% of the things they did when we went there. I've got to get back to work now, but I can assure you there is much more.

 

[KMFJD]

I by far prefer the way it is here in the Netherlands. All Restaurant employees get a regular wage, and you can tip if you like the service. It's not that you are forced to tip for crappy service here.

You mean they pay a decent wage and you still get service? i thought that wasn't possible, without any incentive to perform? I'm in shock, you actrually get your food warm?

/lol

 

[alkemyst]

The main things a higher end restaurant gives you (which has been mentioned ad nausum in this thread) is faster service, more attentive service and not really having to ask for much as you go higher with your buck.

The main problem is most are eating outside their means when they hit up a $50-100 per plate establishment and beyond. If your time is not valuable then all the extras are wasted.

Stick to a Fridays and expect to ask for refills, wait a bit longer for food to be brought and not get it as hot off the grill.

 

[KingGheedora]

The main things a higher end restaurant gives you (which has been mentioned ad nausum in this thread) is faster service, more attentive service and not really having to ask for much as you go higher with your buck.

The main problem is most are eating outside their means when they hit up a $50-100 per plate establishment and beyond. If your time is not valuable then all the extras are wasted.

Stick to a Fridays and expect to ask for refills, wait a bit longer for food to be brought and not get it as hot off the grill.

There are a lot of different place to eat besides chain restaurants for below 120/plate. I almost never eat at chains like Fridays.

About the time being valuable, are you saying that high end places make dining a faster experience, therefore saving you time and therefore money? AFAIK they still need to cook the food and it can take even longer than cheaper places since they are making things with fancy preparation. Even when I went to a place where we had to order a pork butt weeks in advance and they cooked it specifically for our group for like 8 hours or something that day, we were sitting for at least an hour before we got the main course.

The ford focus comment was lame. I pay for things that matter. But after a certain point you are throwing away money simply to feel rich. Bentley vs Porsche.

 

[torpid]

The ford focus comment was lame. I pay for things that matter. But after a certain point you are throwing away money simply to feel rich. Bentley vs Porsche.

I dunno about you, but when I pay a lot at restaurants it's not because I want to feel rich. That would be pretty stupid, as it is more likely to make me feel poor and bankrupt. I pay a lot because I like gourmet food and experiential dining and would rather pay a lot for a good meal once in a while than a little bit for an average meal regularly.

Also, I hope you got some courses before the main course if you waited for 1 hour for the mysterious 8 hour pork butt entree.

 

[cheezy321]

RH71: Are you really arguing the fact that the social majority in America agree with tipping waiters around 15% at restaurants? REALLY?

 

[alkemyst]

There are a lot of different place to eat besides chain restaurants for below 120/plate. I almost never eat at chains like Fridays.

About the time being valuable, are you saying that high end places make dining a faster experience, therefore saving you time and therefore money? AFAIK they still need to cook the food and it can take even longer than cheaper places since they are making things with fancy preparation. Even when I went to a place where we had to order a pork butt weeks in advance and they cooked it specifically for our group for like 8 hours or something that day, we were sitting for at least an hour before we got the main course.

The ford focus comment was lame. I pay for things that matter. But after a certain point you are throwing away money simply to feel rich. Bentley vs Porsche.

Your comments are all over the place...also a Bentley vs Porsche is a really bad example...probably shows your lack of understanding up the food chain.

However; to help you along a bit I was referring to how long your food sits AFTER it's prepared and PRIOR to the server being able to alot you their time. As well as drink / refills, additional table needs, etc.

I don't think BBQ places are really high end establishments though, hope the pork butt was at least good.

 

[3chordcharlie]

why was this thread started again? Oh that's right, repercussions.



oh is that why we have countless tipping threads?



I'm pretty sure this is clear by now... but in case you still don't get it... a $7/hr type of employee is handling multiple tables at a time and makes a lot more than $7/hr., and the owner gets to only pay him a deuce. Who wins here? Owners & waiters. Yet people like you make excuses and say we the customer come out on top after paying twice the cost of the product even with mediocre service. Good one.

He's not a $7/hr employee! If he is, he won't last long, or is working at a joint where 15% = $0.93.

I did mention that you should expect piss poor service if you pay for piss poor service. And being told on your way in the door that you must agree to tip, or you won't be served is not exactly extortion; you have plenty of options.

You come off here as a cheap, bitter asshole, and should definitely avoid any restaurants with servers, because you don't belong in them.

FTR if I haven't mentioned it, I am not, and never have been in a tipping industry or job.

 

[JD50]

If i'm paying a percentage, and my total is more, then I'm tipping more. That is my point i only really mind tipping once I am eating at really expensive places since they get more on the basis that my meal was more, but they aren't doing anything more than what the staff does at a place that is half the price.

Apparently you've never been to a nice restaurant.

 

[nick1985]

I love this thread

 

[JD50]

I love this thread

Yea, tipping threads are great, they really bring out the cheapskates and the people that have never been to a nice restaurant.