Bail Out the Auto Industry

[Polish3d]

What do you think?

 

[GTaudiophile]

Let 'em die...and let better ones take their place.

Demand is there. Supply will meet it somehow.

 

[LumbergTech]

I say no, I just don't see how propping up companies that can't make it is somehow helpful..i mean if someone can prove to me that the problem is entirely circumstantial ..i might see some merit to the position..

but..

how do we even know that a bailout will help long term? will this just happen again in a few years? it seems that letting other auto manufacturers come in and replace these guys who cant cut it would be a better deal..

sounds like econ 101 to me, if a company cant float on its own, propping it up is a mistake... (seems like corporate socialism)

 

[Jaskalas]

Where?s my bailout? Until I get one, no to them.

Maybe the next automakers won't let Unions charge them 75/hour for workers.

 

[Jiggz]

It's a Darwinian industry which means only those best fit will survive! If you spend $12M in Viagra as a part of your auto industry you are obviously weak and prolonging your demise does nobody any good, not even to yourself!

 

[LumbergTech]

Originally posted by: Jaskalas
Where?s my bailout? Until I get one, no to them.

Maybe the next automakers won't let Unions charge them 75/hour for workers.

what about having their pay scale with profitability ..up and down..

 

[WaTaGuMp]

I really dont know where I stand on this issue. Part of me says they made their bed now they must lie in it and the other says creating 2.5 million more unemployed people at this time isnt a great idea either. I guess a loan with VERY strict guide lines including a nice interest rate could be good in the long run, but then I could see the loan being paid back by consumers in higher prices from the automakers. So once again I really dont know how I feel.

 

[spidey07]

When legislation/law is set to fail American workers (thanks Clinton) the product is what you see. So let's reverse that to make it a level playing field.

 

[chess9]

I've changed my mind on this issue. Initially I was opposed, but after considering some of the consequences to our economy and tax base, to say nothing of the pain to the 3 million workers involved, I think we should give them a hand.

The problem with a bailout is properly managing it. Without concessions by labor and management, a viable business plan, and completely new management, I don't think a bailout would do anything but prolong the inevitable. I would give it ONE try.

-Robert

 

[Squisher]

You know those dirty evil union workers that retired after sitting around for 30+ years watching the cars and trucks make themselves are going to be bailed out to the tune of $100 billion anyway through government programs that will take over their pensions.

I say throw those old people out into the street and lets burn them before they suck that money from the government.

 

[sunzt]

I'll be for it only if i get part of the bailout!

Seriously though, the auto industry needs serious restructuring and new workers contracts and having the government bail them out will not help speed it up, only slow it down.

 

[woodie1]

Originally posted by: Jaskalas
Where?s my bailout? Until I get one, no to them.

Maybe the next automakers won't let Unions charge them 75/hour for workers.

Works for me.

 

[BoberFett]

Originally posted by: chess9
I've changed my mind on this issue. Initially I was opposed, but after considering some of the consequences to our economy and tax base, to say nothing of the pain to the 3 million workers involved, I think we should give them a hand.

The problem with a bailout is properly managing it. Without concessions by labor and management, a viable business plan, and completely new management, I don't think a bailout would do anything but prolong the inevitable. I would give it ONE try.

-Robert

Everything that's happening right now is prolonging the inevitable. The current model of the US economy is unsustainable. It will collapse, and it will be big. It's just a matter of when.

So what the hell, let the printing presses roll. Let's have a big party while we still can. It's all going down the shitter.

 

[Infohawk]

We need one car manufacturer in North America for security reasons.

 

[TridenT]

NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO

 

[Mark R]

The way I see it, a bankruptcy of these companies wouldn't mean the companies shutting down and everyone getting fired - so while there are 2.5 million or so jobs on the line, connected to these companies, I don't believe that all, or indeed, even most of them would go.

The problem is that the companies, all of them to some extent, but some are worse than others, are inefficient and have suffered badly under poor management. What is needed, is dramatic improvements in inefficiency, and a better focus on making a product that people are prepared to buy.

In short, this means that jobs will have to go. The mindless pursuit of market share that GM and Ford made, is pointless given the growth in competition from elsewhere, and that has been much of the foundations of the current situiation. SInce the problem is that the companies are set up to build more than there is a market for, whether there is a bailout or not, jobs will have to go. If they get bailed out, but the companies don't downsize and make efficienc savings, then nothing will have changed.

The choice really is then between: Letting the problem continue, and have the state prop up non-jobs, or fixing the problem, either with a bail-out and forced reorganisation, or reorganisation under existing Chapter 11 banmkruptcy. The first is clearly not a solution. The capitalist in me finds favor in the bankruptcy route, the only problem is what ripples it may cause. The bankruptcy of Lehman took the financial crisis up a gear, and probably took the stockmarket down a couple of thousand points, and the shock wave is still echoing through the credit markets. The fear that could result from a BK the size of GM may well cause severe damage, which is why I'm beginning to lean towards a bailout and reorganisation in a more controlled fashion. Not because it will make any difference to jobs and productivity, but because of the overall feeling of confidence in the economy and in business.

 

[woodie1]

Originally posted by: Infohawk
We need one car manufacturer in North America for security reasons.

OK ... Honda or Toyota? heh-heh

 

[Engineer]

Originally posted by: BoberFett

Originally posted by: chess9
I've changed my mind on this issue. Initially I was opposed, but after considering some of the consequences to our economy and tax base, to say nothing of the pain to the 3 million workers involved, I think we should give them a hand.

The problem with a bailout is properly managing it. Without concessions by labor and management, a viable business plan, and completely new management, I don't think a bailout would do anything but prolong the inevitable. I would give it ONE try.

-Robert

Everything that's happening right now is prolonging the inevitable. The current model of the US economy is unsustainable. It will collapse, and it will be big. It's just a matter of when.

So what the hell, let the printing presses roll. Let's have a big party while we still can. It's all going down the shitter.

Yep.

 

[WaTaGuMp]

Lets all vote yes with the gaurantee they put a Japanese management team into all the seats. Man that would piss my dad off with the whole buy american crap. :laugh:

 

[LegendKiller]

I say yes, but only under the same terms that the banks are being helped, huge concessions, regulatory changes, dilution of investors. I would add to that conditions for improvement, added CAFE restrictions, manditory hybrid and other technology improvements, complete management overhaul, and further concessions from the UAW (not volunteered, forced).

 

[XZeroII]

Yes, but only on the condition that the executives have a cap on total pay (including stock/benefits, etc...) AND the UAW is abolished.

 

[Puffnstuff]

I voted no because I've purchased many domestic cars and trucks in the past and I can't afford to be at the shop all of the time having them worked on.

I've also worked with people who've come to my industry from the uaw environment and they are sorry as hell. Nobody I know wants to work with them and their mentality. It's no wonder that domestic branded auto's suck so bad.

Let toyota and honda expand and retrain the uaw guys and gals to their higher standards of assembly and reemploy them.

 

[miketheidiot]

Originally posted by: LegendKiller
I say yes, but only under the same terms that the banks are being helped, huge concessions, regulatory changes, dilution of investors. I would add to that conditions for improvement, added CAFE restrictions, manditory hybrid and other technology improvements, complete management overhaul, and further concessions from the UAW (not volunteered, forced).

legendkiller roughly voices my thoughts on the issue.

 

[SoundTheSurrender]

Where did capitalism go? A company fucks up and the gov helps.

 

[rchiu]

Originally posted by: LegendKiller
I say yes, but only under the same terms that the banks are being helped, huge concessions, regulatory changes, dilution of investors. I would add to that conditions for improvement, added CAFE restrictions, manditory hybrid and other technology improvements, complete management overhaul, and further concessions from the UAW (not volunteered, forced).

I would agree IF the politicians and people managing the bailouts actually knew what the heck they were doing.

With way current bailout is being managed, I vote no because I simply don't trust any of these people managing the bailout. With the way it is, we will just be suckered into paying more in the future without making any real difference.