Audiophiles can't tell the difference between Monster Cable and coat hangers.

[zinfamous]

Originally posted by: compman25
Did they hook them up to Bose speakers?

 

[Capt Caveman]

Originally posted by: Marlin1975

Originally posted by: Soundmanred
All that, and they turned out to be Infinitys?
Good speakers, but come on...

yea here is a review someone just posted about his speakers.

speaker review[/u]

"these were ok. But after i started using monster speaker wires i got much greater clarity and definition, improved bass and treble, and improved dialoge and imaging

I am a true Audiophile so i know what i am talking about

Slick"

:laugh:

 

[sdifox]

Originally posted by: YOyoYOhowsDAjello

Originally posted by: sdifox

Originally posted by: YOyoYOhowsDAjello

Originally posted by: SlickSnake
Infinity Interlude or Beta speakers. The Interlude IL40 is one of the flattest and most highly regarded speaker in the Interlude series. It is a 3 way speaker that uses an 8 inch woofer.

Interlude IL40 Review from Cnet

Interlude IL40 Reviews from Product Investigator

I use this speaker on my main HT system in the living room, and the sound paired with he IL36c center channel is phenomenal. Polk and some other brands that are touted a lot on forums don't even hold a candle to this speaker series. And unless you have heard them compared with a Polk speaker, you don't have a clue what your not hearing from the sound colored Polks. Interludes can be had for way less than retail on Ebay. But the IL40 seems to be a bit harder to find, for obvious reasons. The only speaker in the Interlude series I was not overly impressed by was the IL50s 3 way powered towers. But as a surround speaker, they would be great. The IL50 just lacked a bit of midrange imaging for my tastes, since they lacked a true midrange driver.

Sometimes Harman Audio Ebay Store or their online site Harman Audio Store might actually carry a refurbed pair for sale, with full warranty.

Yoyo, you think this should be moved?

I do.

can you move it or does an atot mod have to do it?

 

[Ns1]

Originally posted by: Capt Caveman

Originally posted by: Marlin1975

Originally posted by: Soundmanred
All that, and they turned out to be Infinitys?
Good speakers, but come on...

yea here is a review someone just posted about his speakers.

speaker review[/u]

"these were ok. But after i started using monster speaker wires i got much greater clarity and definition, improved bass and treble, and improved dialoge and imaging

I am a true Audiophile so i know what i am talking about

Slick"

:laugh:

ouch.

the ATOT wagon pwneth again.

 

[SlickSnake]

Posted By sdifox

Yoyo, you think this should be moved?

Only if I can borrow a new flame retardant jumpsuit from someone first.

My last one was completely burned up in A/V & HT after the HD wars ended. :roll:

 

[YOyoYOhowsDAjello]

Originally posted by: sdifox

Originally posted by: YOyoYOhowsDAjello

Originally posted by: sdifox

Originally posted by: YOyoYOhowsDAjello

Originally posted by: SlickSnake
Infinity Interlude or Beta speakers. The Interlude IL40 is one of the flattest and most highly regarded speaker in the Interlude series. It is a 3 way speaker that uses an 8 inch woofer.

Interlude IL40 Review from Cnet

Interlude IL40 Reviews from Product Investigator

I use this speaker on my main HT system in the living room, and the sound paired with he IL36c center channel is phenomenal. Polk and some other brands that are touted a lot on forums don't even hold a candle to this speaker series. And unless you have heard them compared with a Polk speaker, you don't have a clue what your not hearing from the sound colored Polks. Interludes can be had for way less than retail on Ebay. But the IL40 seems to be a bit harder to find, for obvious reasons. The only speaker in the Interlude series I was not overly impressed by was the IL50s 3 way powered towers. But as a surround speaker, they would be great. The IL50 just lacked a bit of midrange imaging for my tastes, since they lacked a true midrange driver.

Sometimes Harman Audio Ebay Store or their online site Harman Audio Store might actually carry a refurbed pair for sale, with full warranty.

Yoyo, you think this should be moved?

I do.

can you move it or does an atot mod have to do it?

I don't have mod powers outside a specially created area yet, and I believe that even after I do get AV & HT Mod powers, I will not be able to move threads from OT to the AV & HT subforum.

EDIT:

Oh, and my PM's are full (I'm actually several over 1000) so I didn't send a PM to a Mod yet since I'm not at home to export my current messages

 

[SlickSnake]

Originally posted by: YOyoYOhowsDAjello

Originally posted by: SlickSnake

Originally posted by: YOyoYOhowsDAjello

Originally posted by: SlickSnake
Infinity Interlude or Beta speakers. The Interlude IL40 is one of the flattest and most highly regarded speaker in the Interlude series. It is a 3 way speaker that uses an 8 inch woofer.

Interlude IL40 Review from Cnet

Interlude IL40 Reviews from Product Investigator

I use this speaker on my main HT system in the living room, and the sound paired with he IL36c center channel is phenomenal. Polk and some other brands that are touted a lot on forums don't even hold a candle to this speaker series. And unless you have heard them compared with a Polk speaker, you don't have a clue what your not hearing from the sound colored Polks. Interludes can be had for way less than retail on Ebay. But the IL40 seems to be a bit harder to find, for obvious reasons. The only speaker in the Interlude series I was not overly impressed by was the IL50s 3 way powered towers. But as a surround speaker, they would be great. The IL50 just lacked a bit of midrange imaging for my tastes, since they lacked a true midrange driver.

Sometimes Harman Audio Ebay Store or their online site Harman Audio Store might actually carry a refurbed pair for sale, with full warranty.

Oh, OUTED!

But that's only my mains on one of my HTs, Hehehe! Not the main beasts in question atm.

I figured it was only a matter of time before someone did his homework!

GOOD JOB! :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

That particular speaker is also bi-wireable. Which is good I guess if you have spare amps lying around to bi-power it.

Ok, so does that mean you're talking about your IL60s?

Originally posted by: SlickSnake

Over 3/4s of what I bought from Harmanaudio on Ebay and on their website as a refurb was clearly brand new in the box, and not a refurb at all. On the few items that were actually refurbs, it was clearly marked on the box as such, including on the UPC label, and you could tell after opening it had been repackaged. I have bought all of my HT receivers, DVD players, 5 disc CD changers, at least 20 HT speakers (2 complete Interlude 5.1 surround systems, of every type made but one, plus 2 12 inch Interlude subs) a JBL mini system and a set of PC speakers from them. The only problem I had was with one set of 2 way Betas that were obviously refurbs, shipped in 2 different boxes, and one had the wrong speaker cover on it. They sent me 2 brand new covers for the 2 speakers! I even ordered 6 JBL 3 way wall hanging speakers once, for whole house use from winning different Ebay auctions, and every single pair was brand new.

I think they are actually selling off warehouse overstock for the most part on Ebay and on their website, not refurbs. But because they have to keep their retail customers happy and appear they are not undercutting them, they just say it's all refurbs. Some of the stuff that I got refurbed was the electronics. A CD changer, DVD player and the mini JBL system were all refurbs. And the 4 way Interlude IL60s were refurbs, and were marked as such. But they are also powered with 500 watt 12 inch subs in them. The rest of my Interludes were all new, including the 2 12 inch IL120 subs! Even 2 sets of 2 way interludes for wall hanging were new, not refurbs.

I can't support people who say their quality control is bad, not knowing if UPS dropped the units in shipping or what. I did get one set of speakers from them, the Interlude 3 way powered model IL50 that were both literally falling out of the box and damaged by UPS delivering it. I had the chance to hear them on my system, and was not overly pleased with the bass sound or speaker imaging (compared to the others) and sent them back, and did not replace those particular speakers.

I also did buy a refurb older model Infinity HPS1000 15" 1000 watt sub with dual 15" passive radiators from Ubid once, which was a one of a kind offer actually shipped from H/Ks warehouse, and it arrived mashed on the bottom on one corner from UPS, with one foot broken off. It rattled horribly, and when I found out H/K would not cover it for warranty repairs after shipping damage, it was sent back, regrettably. And it could not be replaced by H/K. I can hardly blame H/K for shipping damages by UPS on such large heavy items.

But considering what I have spent on Harman Kardon equipment, which even discounted was around 10k, I would have to disagree strongly with that statement that their QC is suspect. I have not had one blown speaker or faulty electronic part in over 6 years. And their refurb stuff is guaranteed with a full factory warranty, not a cheesy 30 to 90 days like a lot of companies do on refurbs. They are obviously standing behind their products.

Now, if I had reposted all that, I would get yelled non stop for spaming.

 

[sdifox]

Originally posted by: YOyoYOhowsDAjello


I don't have mod powers outside a specially created area yet, and I believe that even after I do get AV & HT Mod powers, I will not be able to move threads from OT to the AV & HT subforum.

EDIT:

Oh, and my PM's are full (I'm actually several over 1000) so I didn't send a PM to a Mod yet since I'm not at home to export my current messages

so who's an atot mod? I can pm.

 

[YOyoYOhowsDAjello]

People were only making spamming comments when you literally cut and pasted the same harmanaudio message for 5+ threads bumping them all to the top.

 

[YOyoYOhowsDAjello]

Originally posted by: sdifox

Originally posted by: YOyoYOhowsDAjello


I don't have mod powers outside a specially created area yet, and I believe that even after I do get AV & HT Mod powers, I will not be able to move threads from OT to the AV & HT subforum.

EDIT:

Oh, and my PM's are full (I'm actually several over 1000) so I didn't send a PM to a Mod yet since I'm not at home to export my current messages[/i]

so who's an atot mod? I can pm.

You can just send a PM to "Anandtech Moderator" if you add them to your Buddies list (or another method of your choice)

While you're at it:

http://forums.anandtech.com/me...=2162076&enterthread=y

 

[legoman666]

Originally posted by: Capt Caveman

Originally posted by: Marlin1975

Originally posted by: Soundmanred
All that, and they turned out to be Infinitys?
Good speakers, but come on...

yea here is a review someone just posted about his speakers.

speaker review[/u]

"these were ok. But after i started using monster speaker wires i got much greater clarity and definition, improved bass and treble, and improved dialoge and imaging

I am a true Audiophile so i know what i am talking about

Slick"

:laugh:

nice.

 

[mrSHEiK124]

Originally posted by: gorcorps

Originally posted by: mrSHEiK124

Originally posted by: SlickSnake

Originally posted by: mrSHEiK124
Self-proclaimed audiophiles, like SlickSnake, that use OMG MONSTER are full of it.

My friends call me an audiophile, although I certainly don't think so. Know why? I can hear the difference between a 128 kbps MP3 and a CD..... I didn't spend $500 on Monster Cables; I'm using the stock, extremely thin gauge, hardwired cables on my Sony HTIB that I got on clearance from BB for $134. Or my Shure E4Cs plugged into my iPod. I've got an Alpine deck in my car that I bought on a clearance error at BB for $79; mainly because it has iPod support, but also because it's got a 24 bit DAC, which does sound a little better than my stock headunit. Enjoy your increased definition and imaging and clarity and all that crap, I'll enjoy my cheap consumer electronics

Once again, I never claimed to be an audiophile. If you had bothered to read my posts, you would see I already denied this. I'm just not moronic enough to compare thin lamp cord to a decent speaker wire. Be

I bet you'd be hardpressed to tell in a double-blind test. If the difference is so insignificant that you can't find it without KNOWING it's there, then it's not worth paying for...

The point isn't that you can/can't tell, it's that (for the most part) you WILL get what you pay for. I've had great experience with monster warranties so for me they're worth the price. Are there other cables out there which do the job? Of course there are, and nobody can tell the difference. But cheap cables will break, and you don't have anything backing you then. You'll have to buy another cheapo, and another, and eventually it adds up.

Amazon charges $79.28 for an ultra-high speed 2 meter HDMI Monster cable.This is well below MSRP of $129.95
http://www.amazon.com/gp/produ...&qid=1204658254&sr=8-1

Monoprice charges $12.52 for a 6 foot HDMI 1.3a cable. You'd have to need to replace the Monoprice cable more than 6 times in order for it to pay for the Monster cable, which wouldn't be necessary to begin with since they have a lifetime warranty too. Anyone paying for Monster cable is paying for a brand name, just like Bose.

 

[SlickSnake]

Originally posted by: YOyoYOhowsDAjello
People were only making spamming comments when you literally cut and pasted the same harmanaudio message for 5+ threads bumping them all to the top.

No, they were somewhat modified. Based on the topic. And they were relavent to the posters topics, at any rate. It wasn't idle thread spam. It was on topic.

But it was mainly the fact that I used the words Harman Kardon and Infinity and not Polk and Onkyo was what riled the mobs.

 

[QueBert]

Originally posted by: Demon-Xanth

Originally posted by: QueBert

Originally posted by: biggestmuff

Originally posted by: QueBert
one thing I like about Monster Cables, they're incredibly easy to bend and route. I have their pro series audio amp kit cables running for my car stereo. No other brand I looked at had the same quality. It's like they're made out of silly putty how easy it is to bend them and get them to go where you want. Sound any better? nope not at all, but was worth the $200 IMO for how greatly they helped make the install that much easier, and it look cleaner than I could have done with generics. No other brand with the exception of the Kicker, which cost about the same would have given me the same results.

some of us are ummm... superficial? haha that's why I pay 12 bucks for a SATA cable that should be $3, just because it has a nicer look I spend more. It sucks to be superficial

Into what vehicle was it installed?

a Ford Taurus, and to Turin39789 if it's just 18 gauge wire padded to look like 0, shit shouldn't something have blown up by now? 1,200 watts on 18 gauge ain't gonna be pretty

If you overclock your alternator so it puts out 240V all you need is 5 amps, and 18 gauge can handle that

ha nice, already have tbe biggest High Output alternator I could get in my car, still don't think 18 gauge wire would do anything except maybe melt, or at least cause my amp to explode. I'm sure whatever happens it wouldn't be good

 

[sdifox]

Originally posted by: YOyoYOhowsDAjello
You can just send a PM to "Anandtech Moderator" if you add them to your Buddies list (or another method of your choice)

While you're at it:

http://forums.anandtech.com/me...=2162076&enterthread=y

Request sent, for both.

 

[QueBert]

Originally posted by: skace
Why are you guys knocking audiophiles in regards to monster cable? Most audiophiles would laugh at even the mention of Monster.

ok, but a lot of audiophiles buy shit that cost enough to make Monster look like a generic brand. I have a friend who has $500 speaker wire, no it's not Monster. I don't know the brand off hand but I know he paid 5 bill for it. Audiophiles will spend far more money than anything Monster charges for less.

 

[QueBert]

Originally posted by: Perknose

Originally posted by: QueBert

Originally posted by: biggestmuff

Originally posted by: QueBert
one thing I like about Monster Cables, they're incredibly easy to bend and route. I have their pro series audio amp kit cables running for my car stereo. No other brand I looked at had the same quality. It's like they're made out of silly putty how easy it is to bend them and get them to go where you want. Sound any better? nope not at all, but was worth the $200 IMO for how greatly they helped make the install that much easier, and it look cleaner than I could have done with generics. No other brand with the exception of the Kicker, which cost about the same would have given me the same results.

some of us are ummm... superficial? haha that's why I pay 12 bucks for a SATA cable that should be $3, just because it has a nicer look I spend more. It sucks to be superficial

Into what vehicle was it installed?

a Ford Taurus...

Why didn't anyone else note the exquisite irony here? :laugh: :shocked:

what's ironic about it? I wanted a car that would excel in the audio department. Taurus's have an almost perfect sized trunk for the subs I had installed. I was anal about having exact measurements to produce the best bass I could get. Some cars had bigger trunks, but the Taurus trunk was big, without being overly big. I don't give 2 shits about how the outside of the car looks, nobody buys a Taurus for it's "wow" appeal. I know when I was done with my setup, my sound system was pretty bad ass. If my car dies I will hunt down another 2000-2005 Taurus for the perfect trunk And $4,500 later I had one of the best sounding car setups I've ever heard IMO

 

[Siddhartha]

Awhile back, 20+ years ago, High Fidelity, Stereo Review, or Auido, did a double blind test comparing speakers that costed tens of thousands of dollars to less than $1000. They used an equalizer and sound meter to get the frequency response curves and loudness levels of the speakers close as possible.

If I remember correctly most of the golden ears could not tell the difference between speakers that costed more than 30 times other speakers. The magazine got a lot of angry letters about the test and results. Some people argued against using a double blind test!

 

[Soundmanred]

It's all about justification.
Would you be angry if you bought the $10,000 speakers and found out that they sounded the same as a $1,000 pair?
I would.
Then I'd educate myself as to why, and know not to throw money away in the future. Like most things, there's a point where price and products match up, and above that very little gain is shown except for the prestige of having expensive equipment.
I used to use AudioQuest cables and wire, until I started doing blind tests and couldn't tell the difference between them. It was a sad day for my ego, but not for my wallet. I sold it all and have used "regular" wire ever since. All I pay attention to is the gauge these days. I still use the AudioQuest speaker wire, it wasn't too expensive and it's red and blue twisted wire in a clear jacket and I love the way it looks.

 

[SlickSnake]

Originally posted by: Ns1

Originally posted by: Capt Caveman

Originally posted by: Marlin1975

Originally posted by: Soundmanred
All that, and they turned out to be Infinitys?
Good speakers, but come on...

yea here is a review someone just posted about his speakers.

speaker review[/u]

"these were ok. But after i started using monster speaker wires i got much greater clarity and definition, improved bass and treble, and improved dialoge and imaging

I am a true Audiophile so i know what i am talking about

Slick"

:laugh:

ouch.

the ATOT wagon pwneth again.

Yea, and witty Marlin1975 posted a false review about the wrong speakers. Truely amazing. He just couldn't wait to post worthless crap until he actually knew what speakers I was talking about! ADD at it's finest!

If you Hot Deals stalkers want to use crappy lamp cord speaker wire and can't figure out why it's stupid not too after spending $1000s on your HT, so be it! It has nothing to do with whether or not your an audiophile, your just another cheapskate. Let's be perfectly honest here, ok?

Do you also follow a new Cadillac around in your old beat up KIAs and hoot and holler at the drivers for spending too much? They both drive and do the same things, right? No difference at all there, huh? So everyone just needs to buy a KIA, right? That's the same dumb logic you are trying to apply here.

So why not just drop the misplaced Monster hate already, just because you can't afford to buy one and/or your too lazy to search for one cheaper than retail.

And hats off to the OP for posting a topic that gets so many ANAND Tech Hot Deals tightwads mindlessly hating on Monster posting garbage in it! BRAVO!

 

[Ns1]

Originally posted by: SlickSnake

Originally posted by: Ns1

Originally posted by: Capt Caveman

Originally posted by: Marlin1975

Originally posted by: Soundmanred
All that, and they turned out to be Infinitys?
Good speakers, but come on...

yea here is a review someone just posted about his speakers.

speaker review[/u]

"these were ok. But after i started using monster speaker wires i got much greater clarity and definition, improved bass and treble, and improved dialoge and imaging

I am a true Audiophile so i know what i am talking about

Slick"

:laugh:

ouch.

the ATOT wagon pwneth again.

Yea, and witty Marlin1975 posted a false review about the wrong speakers. Truely amazing. He just couldn't wait to post worthless crap until he actually knew what speakers I was talking about! ADD at it's finest!

If you Hot Deals stalkers want to use crappy lamp cord speaker wire and can't figure out why it's stupid not too after spending $1000s on your HT, so be it! It has nothing to do with whether or not your an audiophile, your just another cheapskate. Let's be perfectly honest here, ok?

Do you also follow a new Cadillac around in your old beat up KIAs and hoot and holler at the drivers for spending too much? They both drive and do the same things, right? No difference at all there, huh? So everyone just needs to buy a KIA, right? That's the same dumb logic you are trying to apply here.

So why not just drop the misplaced Monster hate already, just because you can't afford to buy one and/or your too lazy to search for one cheaper than retail.

And hats off to the OP for posting a topic that gets so many ANAND Tech Hot Deals tightwads mindlessly hating on Monster posting garbage in it! BRAVO!

I got 4 words for you:

the plane takes off.

 

[Pacfanweb]

The power lines that run for miles and miles into your house are plain, copper cable. Your house is wired with plain, copper cable.
Open up any of your HT components....they are wired with plain, copper cable.
I have a McIntosh amplifier for my main speakers. It weighs about 90lbs. Guess what it's full of? That's right, plain copper wire. Probably a mile or two of it.

I have Definitive Technology speakers, 7 of them. The mains are pretty tall, and covered with fabric. After a few years, I bought new fabric from Definitive to get them looking better. Took them apart...guess what kind of wires they ran inside of them from the terminals to the drivers in the top? Yep, plain, copper wire.

Siddhartha is correct in his memory. Nobody has ever been able to tell the difference in expensive cables and cheap ones in a true, double-blind test. There have been many offers for so-called "expert ears" to try it, and generally they are refused.

Also, for the most part, pay attention and you'll find that the main people telling you how much better expensive cables are than regular wire are the ones who are selling you the cable. Sort of like how only Bose is telling you how great Bose is....no review I've ever seen has done that.

If your wire is large enough to carry the current your amp is pushing, it doesn't matter who made it. A 5000 dollar set of speaker wires won't sound any better than a set you get at Radio Shack. They'll probably look prettier, but your sound won't change.

Roger Russell's speaker wire page is definitely worth the read
He designed speakers and amps for McIntosh for years. He hold many patents, and the Mac XR290's are still some of the finest speakers ever built.

He certainly knows more about speaker wire than any of us. If he says it makes no difference, then it makes no difference.

 

[SlickSnake]

Originally posted by: Siddhartha
Awhile back, 20+ years ago, High Fidelity, Stereo Review, or Auido, did a double blind test comparing speakers that costed tens of thousands of dollars to less than $1000. They used an equalizer and sound meter to get the frequency response curves and loudness levels of the speakers close as possible.

If I remember correctly most of the golden ears could not tell the difference between speakers that costed more than 30 times other speakers. The magazine got a lot of angry letters about the test and results. Some people argued against using a double blind test!

Well, if you have to use equalizers and sound meters to get the speakers to sound perfectly identicle, what do you expect to hear? That is hardly an out of the box sound that is native to the speaker then, is it? What kind of stupid test was that? I can imagine they got a lot of angry reponses.

The point wasn't comparing the speakers as they were, side by side with the same settings on an amp, they were trying to make them sound identicle in the first place! The amp settings and everyting were completely different on the speakers for the test to work. That pretty much negates the test, since normally none of those speakers would be compared like that.

Obviously, all the speakers can be made to sound flat and lifeless and the same! Deep bass here, well, let's just take that out! Too much midrange here, well, we can just remove it! What a stupid test. I would certainly hope they could all be equalized into bland mediocrity for the sake of that test. That test just proves any speaker can be made to sound average, so what?

 

[sdifox]

Originally posted by: SlickSnake

Originally posted by: Siddhartha
Awhile back, 20+ years ago, High Fidelity, Stereo Review, or Auido, did a double blind test comparing speakers that costed tens of thousands of dollars to less than $1000. They used an equalizer and sound meter to get the frequency response curves and loudness levels of the speakers close as possible.

If I remember correctly most of the golden ears could not tell the difference between speakers that costed more than 30 times other speakers. The magazine got a lot of angry letters about the test and results. Some people argued against using a double blind test!

Well, if you have to use equalizers and sound meters to get the speakers to sound perfectly identicle, what do you expect to hear? That is hardly an out of the box sound that is native to the speaker then, is it? What kind of stupid test was that? I can imagine they got a lot of angry reponses.

The point wasn't comparing the speakers as they were, side by side with the same settings on an AMP, they were trying to make them sound identicle in the first place! The amp settings and everyting were completely different on the speakers for the test to work. That pretty much negates the test, since normally none of those speakers would be compared like that.

Obviously, all the speakers all can be made to sound flat and lifeless and the same! Deep bass here, well, let's just take that out! Too much midrange here, well, we can just remove it! What a stupid test. I would certainly hope they could all be equalized into bland mediocrity for the sake of that test. That test just proves any speaker can be made to sound average, so what?

Equalisers are used to account for room mode. Unless you got an anechoic chamber for home theatre, your room will enhance some frequencies whilst diminishing others, it's called resonance. So an electronic eq for each channel is the ultimate way to smooth out responses. The aim is to get rid of the extra sound the room introduces.

Sound metres are used to calibrate sound levels from all speakers. That way, they sound the way they are supposed to, distance to sweet spot is also critical because you want every sound to arrive on target at the same time.


Now you know. and if you don't believe me, try this guy

http://www.roger-russell.com/wire/wire.htm

in case you missed Pacfanweb's post.

Bottom line, if I had 1000 dollar to spend on cables and content, I would spend 50 on cable and 950 on content. Do not forget the whole point to a sound system is to enjoy content!

 

[DrPizza]

Originally posted by: Pacfanweb
The power lines that run for miles and miles into your house are plain, copper cable. <snip>

Actually, it's cheaper to use aluminum for transmission lines, and unless I'm mistaken, most transmission lines are aluminum.