Attention Bernie Bros

[dank69]

Keep on saying that Joe Biden is fantastically better than Trump on anything but the types of Judges that he would appoint to the SCotUS (Biden judges = moderate/centrists) than Trump is (Trump Judges = Right Wing Asshats)

Did Biden Say He Didn't Want His Kids Growing Up in a 'Racial Jungle'?

The 2020 Democratic presidential candidate's history with desegregation busing has haunted him on the campaign trail.

www.snopes.com

And you'll be a LSoS...

Now argue the SCotUS thing to me and maybe Biden can win me over if he also gives on one progressive plank that Warren and/or Bernie pushed in the primary.


__________

Yeah keep digging shit up from decades ago and thinking it is just as relevant as shit happening today. That way, you never have to examine how stupid and petulant you are being.

 

[1prophet]

Which in a two party system that is what we are really deciding. When we have real ranked choice voting then people can voice their protest. In our current democracy, "lesser of two evils" IS the moral high ground.

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That so called moral high ground is why you end up with Trump, but keep going that course because you eventually will end up with someone that makes Trump look like the lesser evil, just like Trump made George Bush look like the lesser evil and nobody would have thought that possible back then.

Looks like New York Democrats just rewarded Bernie for his dropping out and endorsing Biden.

'Blow to American democracy': Sanders' campaign blasts cancellation of NY primary

The Sanders campaign called for the state to lose all of its delegates to the Democratic National Convention "if this is not remedied."

www.nbcnews.com

 

[SmCaudata]

That so called moral high ground is why you end up with Trump, but keep going that course because you eventually will end up with someone that makes Trump look like the lesser evil, just like Trump made George Bush look like the lesser evil and nobody would have thought that possible back then.

Looks like New York Democrats just rewarded Bernie for his dropping out and endorsing Biden.

'Blow to American democracy': Sanders' campaign blasts cancellation of NY primary

The Sanders campaign called for the state to lose all of its delegates to the Democratic National Convention "if this is not remedied."

www.nbcnews.com

Please explain the correct choice for November. Reelect someone that has single handily done more to roll back progress than any president in history? Or vote for the other guy. Bitch and moan all you want, those are your two choices right now. There is no third option. Election day is not the day to vote for change in the system. Ask Perot and Nader how much impact their third party runs votes had on eliminating the two party system.

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[NostaSeronx]

Please explain the correct choice for November.

Don't vote for the campaigns funded by American/Russian plutarchs. They both share the same dark money from the same people. To choose the current presumptive democrat nominee or the incumbant is what the top powers of Russia want.

Nothing changed from twelve years ago, nothing changed from four years ago. Different people, same money, same shit.

 

[Fenixgoon]

Don't vote for the campaigns funded by American/Russian plutarchs. They both share the same dark money from the same people. To choose the current presumptive democrat nominee or the incumbant is what the top powers of Russia want.

Nothing changed from twelve years ago, nothing changed from four years ago. Different people, same money, same shit.

Yeah, right....

 

[SmCaudata]

Don't vote for the campaigns funded by American/Russian plutarchs. They both share the same dark money from the same people. To choose the current presumptive democrat nominee or the incumbant is what the top powers of Russia want.

Nothing changed from twelve years ago, nothing changed from four years ago. Different people, same money, same shit.

Again. Even if you hate them both, if you honestly believe that they are both equally damaging to the future then write in or something. Personally, regardless of the fact that Biden was not my top choice, it is quite easy to see that at least one of these two has the potential to make some progress in our policies.

No one can guarantee that any president will do one thing or another. I will say that only one of them has any chance at all to improve wages, make progress toward health care being a right, or initiating or participating in some global green energy work.

At bare minimum, even if you hate both, you should consider climate change and support the one that has the greater chance to do something positive.

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[blankslate]

blah blah blah

Or you could make the SCotUS justices argument.

*psst*

Spoiler

here's a hint. Given all of the things Biden has said and his record it is pretty much the only argument you can make about a category where Biden is much better than Trump and it is still a rather convincing one.

 

[dank69]

blah blah blah

Spoiler

I'm an idiot

Thanks for checking in.

 

[fskimospy]

Or you could make the SCotUS justices argument.

*psst*

Spoiler

here's a hint. Given all of the things Biden has said and his record it is pretty much the only argument you can make about a category where Biden is much better than Trump and it is still a rather convincing one.

If you actually believe this all I can ask is what planet you’ve been living on for the past three years. Trump used his powers of office to commit multiple felonies to conceal the involvement of his campaign in an espionage activity by a hostile foreign power, for starters.

 

[Blackjack200]

Or you could make the SCotUS justices argument.

*psst*

Spoiler

here's a hint. Given all of the things Biden has said and his record it is pretty much the only argument you can make about a category where Biden is much better than Trump and it is still a rather convincing one.

It's ultimately not compelling to me though. I heard a pretty interesting discussion about the question of voting for the "lesser of two evils", and specifically Biden in this case, on a podcast last week. The hosts pointed out that the choice is generally framed as a Trolley Problem. Sure, Biden is not good, but if you don't pull the lever, you get Trump, and he's worse. Simple enough.

But they pointed out that the trolley problem framing ignores the longer term consequences of consistently voting for bad politicians because the alternative you're being offered is worse. They argued that a better conception of the problem is the Dollar Auction. The idea is that every two or four years we go to the polls and simply pull the lever for the lesser of two evils, so over time the Democrats have no incentive to ever get any better. The only chance you have for better candidates is if you refuse to play the game.

The SCOTUS argument falls flat for me for a couple of reasons. #1 I have no reason to believe Biden would nominate progressive judges since he's hostile to progressivism to begin with. #2 I have no reason to believe Mitch McConnell would allow a vote on a Biden nomination, and #3, I do not believe a good, effective president, dedicated to broadly popular politics would be stopped by the SCOTUS anyway (see Roosevelt, Franklin Delano).

Of course, none of this means anything to you if you actually believe the Democrats are acting in good faith and just need a few more seats or a little more power to actually be able to do something good. Yes, this requires you to ignore everything they actually do once they're in office, but that doesn't seem too difficult for most people.

 

[SmCaudata]

It does. But we have a president and party that are systematically trying to disenfranchise large groups of the voting population. Inaction now as a protest is cutting off your nose to spite your face. We started to see movement in some states to fix gerrymandering. If we continue to allow GOP to push their agenda and appoint judges we soon wont have the ability to stop them.

To be clear, voting for Nader back in the day was fine. Voting for no one right now is not. We all understand the arguement, but inaction in 2020 has real possibility to cause irreparable harm.

Edit: Throwing a tantrum and contributing to the worsening of society because the guy you liked didnt win is narcissistic as hell. Get over yourselves.

 

[Blackjack200]

It does. But we have a president and party that are systematically trying to disenfranchise large groups of the voting population. Inaction now as a protest is cutting off your nose to spite your face. We started to see movement in some states to fix gerrymandering. If we continue to allow GOP to push their agenda and appoint judges we soon wont have the ability to stop them.

To be clear, voting for Nader back in the day was fine. Voting for no one right now is not. We all understand the arguement, but inaction in 2020 has real possibility to cause irreparable harm.

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Democrats are quite happy to play that game too, as they just showed in New York.

 

[fskimospy]

It does. But we have a president and party that are systematically trying to disenfranchise large groups of the voting population. Inaction now as a protest is cutting off your nose to spite your face. We started to see movement in some states to fix gerrymandering. If we continue to allow GOP to push their agenda and appoint judges we soon wont have the ability to stop them.

To be clear, voting for Nader back in the day was fine. Voting for no one right now is not. We all understand the arguement, but inaction in 2020 has real possibility to cause irreparable harm.

We are in a national emergency where a lifelong criminal occupies the presidency and is using it to commit more crimes with impunity. The focus is on removing the threat, then we can return to arguing about policy.

If Trump’s only viable opponent were Justin Amash or some other non-Trump Republican I would vote for them in a second despite vehemently disagreeing with their policy positions. Because this is a national emergency.

Edit: Throwing a tantrum and contributing to the worsening of society because the guy you liked didnt win is narcissistic as hell. Get over yourselves.

This, very much. It’s exactly that - throwing a temper tantrum. Funny how when Bernie was winning the Bernie Bros started talking about how it was now the duty of all Democrats to line up behind him as he was going to be the nominee. When he lost, they changed their minds.

He lost the primary fair and square and likely his most rabid fans contributed to his loss by acting like this.

 

[Blackjack200]

This, very much. It’s exactly that - throwing a temper tantrum. Funny how when Bernie was winning the Bernie Bros started talking about how it was now the duty of all Democrats to line up behind him as he was going to be the nominee. When he lost, they changed their minds.

Actually what we said was that it was the duty of everyone that wanted to vote Trump out of office to vote for Sanders because he was the only candidate with a substantial voter base that might not vote for centrist or right wing Democratic nominee. Wrong again! Haha. You should get back to smearing sexual assault victims, it's your strong suit.

 

[dank69]

It's ultimately not compelling to me though. I heard a pretty interesting discussion about the question of voting for the "lesser of two evils", and specifically Biden in this case, on a podcast last week. The hosts pointed out that the choice is generally framed as a Trolley Problem. Sure, Biden is not good, but if you don't pull the lever, you get Trump, and he's worse. Simple enough.

But they pointed out that the trolley problem framing ignores the longer term consequences of consistently voting for bad politicians because the alternative you're being offered is worse. They argued that a better conception of the problem is the Dollar Auction. The idea is that every two or four years we go to the polls and simply pull the lever for the lesser of two evils, so over time the Democrats have no incentive to ever get any better. The only chance you have for better candidates is if you refuse to play the game.

How do you not see that this is pure bullshit? If you don't play the game, Democrats or Republicans still win. You change nothing.

The SCOTUS argument falls flat for me for a couple of reasons. #1 I have no reason to believe Biden would nominate progressive judges since he's hostile to progressivism to begin with. #2 I have no reason to believe Mitch McConnell would allow a vote on a Biden nomination, and #3, I do not believe a good, effective president, dedicated to broadly popular politics would be stopped by the SCOTUS anyway (see Roosevelt, Franklin Delano).

Of course, none of this means anything to you if you actually believe the Democrats are acting in good faith and just need a few more seats or a little more power to actually be able to do something good. Yes, this requires you to ignore everything they actually do once they're in office, but that doesn't seem too difficult for most people.

Again, you are framing this wrong. What you said above and here is that Democrats have no incentive to change but the reality is the opposite: The Republicans have no incentive to change and instead an incentive to be worse because no matter how bad they get, people like you are going to just say DemsJustAsBad. What has to happen is that the Republicans need to be punished, thoroughly, to the point that their behavior is no longer tolerated. If that never happens, then Democrats have no incentive to be better, and can continue to get worse because rational people will still see them as "the better option." You want to believe we can punish both at the same time. Unfortunately, that is not possible in our system.

 

[fskimospy]

How do you not see that this is pure bullshit? If you don't play the game, Democrats or Republicans still win. You change nothing.

Again, you are framing this wrong. What you said above and here is that Democrats have no incentive to change but the reality is the opposite: The Republicans have no incentive to change and instead an incentive to be worse because no matter how bad they get, people like you are going to just say DemsJustAsBad. What has to happen is that the Republicans need to be punished, thoroughly, to the point that their behavior is no longer tolerated. If that never happens, then Democrats have no incentive to be better, and can continue to get worse because rational people will still see them as "the better option." You want to believe we can punish both at the same time. Unfortunately, that is not possible in our system.

The idea that Biden wouldn’t nominate better judges than Trump is one that only stupid or dishonest people would make. The easiest way to see this is look at the legacy of Bill Clinton’s justices. Pretty good! And Biden’s platform is much to the left of Bill Clinton’s.

 

[soundforbjt]

I find it extremely hilarious that Bernie Bros are on the side of Russia and Fox News in helping Trump get elected and playing up the Tara Reade story. It's as though they can't possibly imagine being played because they think they are too smart.

 

[Blackjack200]

I find it extremely hilarious that Bernie Bros are on the side of Russia and Fox News in helping Trump get elected and playing up the Tara Reade story. It's as though they can't possibly imagine being played because they think they are too smart.

Blue-anon

 

[sandorski]

I find it extremely hilarious that Bernie Bros are on the side of Russia and Fox News in helping Trump get elected and playing up the Tara Reade story. It's as though they can't possibly imagine being played because they think they are too smart.

Does the truth of the Allegations hold no sway, simply because Russia/Trump will use it?

 

[fskimospy]

I find it extremely hilarious that Bernie Bros are on the side of Russia and Fox News in helping Trump get elected and playing up the Tara Reade story. It's as though they can't possibly imagine being played because they think they are too smart.

This article is interesting and it makes sense - while Bernie Bros may not share the same ideological ideas as Trumpkins in terms of personal characteristics they are quite similar in their embrace of conspiracy theories, desire to burn it all down, etc.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2020/02/21/sanders-trump-supporters-have-this-quality-common-so-do-other-populist-voters/

 

[sandorski]

This article is interesting and it makes sense - while Bernie Bros may not share the same ideological ideas as Trumpkins in terms of personal characteristics they are quite similar in their embrace of conspiracy theories, desire to burn it all down, etc.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2020/02/21/sanders-trump-supporters-have-this-quality-common-so-do-other-populist-voters/

Hope and Change.

 

[Jhhnn]

Democrats are quite happy to play that game too, as they just showed in New York.

Yeh, it's terrible when people are deprived of their chance to vote for a candidate who has already conceded and whom they can write in, anyway. Just terrible.

 

[Blackjack200]

Yeh, it's terrible when people are deprived of their chance to vote for a candidate who has already conceded and whom they can write in, anyway. Just terrible.

It's funny how much people like you cry about the importance of getting rid of Trump, but a move like this offers him a precedent to suspend or cancel the general election in it's entirety, and you have no problem with it. You're either an idiot or just as hateful as they are, and I don't really care which one it is anymore.

 

[Meghan54]

The idea that Biden wouldn’t nominate better judges than Trump is one that only stupid or dishonest people would make. The easiest way to see this is look at the legacy of Bill Clinton’s justices. Pretty good! And Biden’s platform is much to the left of Bill Clinton’s.

It's just a damned variation of the "He's not pure enough" or "He's not left enough" argument that was always implied in every "discussion" with a Bro...and it's about as sensible to "debate" a Bro as it is trying to get a conservative to understand the long term benefits of universal/single-payer health care.

 

[Blackjack200]

It's just a damned variation of the "He's not pure enough" or "He's not left enough" argument that was always implied in every "discussion" with a Bro...and it's about as sensible to "debate" a Bro as it is trying to get a conservative to understand the long term benefits of universal/single-payer health care.

Oh yeah that thing that Biden said he'd veto.