ATI x1800 XT to be clocked past 600/1400

[Hacp]

Originally posted by: ddogg

Originally posted by: CaiNaM

not at all. this type of speculation is completely warranted. back with the xt pe was released, i had 4 cards "pre-ordered" from 4 different vendors (i ended up having to purchase a PRO, and later an XT, neither of which i still have). i never could get one. while a very small % of those who ordered cards received them, the availability was so ridiculously poor these were being sold on ebay for over TWICE the suggested MSRP.

while the speculation could certainly prove wrong, questioning price and availability is well within reason given the paper launches by ati last generation, especially given the retapes and delays with getting r520 to market so far.

QFT

Yes but just stating that ATI cards will likely be Phantom editions when they release without stating that they might be wrong, and ATI could be supplying us with the cards like Nvidia did is pure fanboyism. Speculation is OK, but one sided speculation is fanboyism.

 

[Duvie]

Basic economy 101 says if supply is low and demand is high the price will and could be higher. If the benches come out and the numbers look good and there is a smaller supply then Nvidia can release (which I am sure that will be a certain) I can see where the prices will stay high a bit longer. the only way the prices will drop like Nvidia will be heavy suply to keep items in stock and outpace demand or the numers wioll be poor and stunt demand..

 

[crazydingo]

Originally posted by: Hacp
Speculation is OK, but one sided speculation is fanboyism.

Q F T

Be a videocard fanboy not a vendor fanboy. 😉 (Preference ! = Fanboyism)

 

[moonboy403]

heck...what's the point of siding with a company which none of you guys own?!

 

[jasonja]

Originally posted by: keysplayr2003
I suspected this would have to be done.

Quote: "Such cards might not be in the stores at launch date, the plan is to have them two to three weeks after the launch, but ATI will hace X1800XL cards at the time of its announcements."

So, I am guessing (this means I'm guessing 😉 ) That the X1800XT will be the 600/1400 part. Then the X1800XTPE will be the 700/1400+ part that most of us will never have the priviledge of seeing except on ebay. Kind of similar to the X800XTPE.

This (to me) adds some credibility to the Sander benches at 600/1400. Why would ATI need to ramp up speed if 600/1400 was sufficient enough to best a 7800GTX? It is my opinion (this means this is just my opinion 😉 ) , that they would not.

Keys.

It clearly says that the XT will be clocked past 600... not that they will release a new phantom edition that runs faster than 600. Yields with this final tape out could have resulted in better head room than expected allowing them to get to 650 or more.

 

[classy]

Who cares how fast something has to clocked? Its irrelevant.

 

[Insomniak]

Two things: Performance and Availability.

If ATi falters on either one, they lose. They're already talking like they're going to bone up availability out the door.

 

[jasonja]

Originally posted by: Ronin
What's to respect? Think about how much market share ATi has lost because they couldn't get the product out when they said they would (this includes Crossfire AND R520). ....

How much? Exactly how many people in this world (not this forum) do you think spend $500-1000 for a graphics card(s). Q2 Market Share

 

[StrangerGuy]

Even if ATI lost this round they still have the Xbox 360 royalties to fall back on.

 

[Soccerman06]

So ATI is going to lose how much market share because they dont release the super high end card right away like Nvidia (or 4 months later)? ATI has 26.8% of the market, while Nvidia has only 15.9%. And now that ATI is teaming up with Intel and having Intel use the X200 chipset for the mainstream low-end, they will get an even larger market share, perhaps take some of Intel's market share. Proof

 

[nRollo]

Originally posted by: Soccerman06
So ATI is going to lose how much market share because they dont release the super high end card right away like Nvidia (or 4 months later)? ATI has 26.8% of the market, while Nvidia has only 15.9%. And now that ATI is teaming up with Intel and having Intel use the X200 chipset for the mainstream low-end, they will get an even larger market share, perhaps take some of Intel's market share. Proof

The problem for ATI is that they have less than 25% of the performance market, where money is made. They do have a big share of the low end, but earn no profit on it.

 

[Hacp]

Originally posted by: Soccerman06
So ATI is going to lose how much market share because they dont release the super high end card right away like Nvidia (or 4 months later)? ATI has 26.8% of the market, while Nvidia has only 15.9%. And now that ATI is teaming up with Intel and having Intel use the X200 chipset for the mainstream low-end, they will get an even larger market share, perhaps take some of Intel's market share. Proof

Intel won't allow ATI to take over Intel's market share. Remember ATI is a direct competetor to Intel in both chipsets and integrated solutions. Intel probably got a whole bunch of royalties, and are just trying to milk ATI of all they got. Sounds kinda like the Ipod-HP deal heh.

 

[M0RPH]

Originally posted by: Hacp
Hmm Nvidia fanboy thread?

That's exactly what this is. Doesn't even deserve a response.

 

[crazydingo]

Originally posted by: Soccerman06
So ATI is going to lose how much market share because they dont release the super high end card right away like Nvidia (or 4 months later)? ATI has 26.8% of the market, while Nvidia has only 15.9%. And now that ATI is teaming up with Intel and having Intel use the X200 chipset for the mainstream low-end, they will get an even larger market share, perhaps take some of Intel's market share. Proof

You had to ruin the party. :brokenheart: :roll:

edited for wrong emoticon 😛

 

[Soccerman06]

Originally posted by: Hacp

Originally posted by: Soccerman06
So ATI is going to lose how much market share because they dont release the super high end card right away like Nvidia (or 4 months later)? ATI has 26.8% of the market, while Nvidia has only 15.9%. And now that ATI is teaming up with Intel and having Intel use the X200 chipset for the mainstream low-end, they will get an even larger market share, perhaps take some of Intel's market share. Proof

Intel won't allow ATI to take over Intel's market share. Remember ATI is a direct competetor to Intel in both chipsets and integrated solutions. Intel probably got a whole bunch of royalties, and are just trying to milk ATI of all they got. Sounds kinda like the Ipod-HP deal heh.

Oh I know that Intel wont let ATI all their market share, but this is going to give them a better % of the market seperate them even further away from Nvidia.

The problem for ATI is that they have less than 25% of the performance market, where money is made. They do have a big share of the low end, but earn no profit on it.

Rollo, You do know that the money is in the low end right? You think Ferrari made much money when producing the Enzo? They made the money on royalties and the 360. Selling hundred of thousands of $100 chips (and making $75) for the low end VS thousands of $400 (making $250) for the high end. Which makes the company more money? These are just guesses on what they really get for profit on each chip, so if anyone can find what the profit margin on the cards are, you can figure out which truly makes the money.

 

[nRollo]

Originally posted by: Soccerman06
Rollo, You do know that the money is in the low end right? You think Ferrari made much money when producing the Enzo? They made the money on royalties and the 360. Selling hundred of thousands of $100 chips (and making $75) for the low end VS thousands of $400 (making $250) for the high end. Which makes the company more money? These are just guesses on what they really get for profit on each chip, so if anyone can find what the profit margin on the cards are, you can figure out which truly makes the money.

No, I think you're wrong. I think higher average cost per chip is what AMD, Intel, ATI, and nVidia all strive for.

You're thinking of total cost per card, which is FAR above the GPU cost. ATI isn't dominating the $100 chip market, ATI is leading in the $5 chip market.

That is why they lost millions last quarter while gaining market share, and nVidia had record profits while losing market share.

 

[Hacp]

Who knows? Maybe with liquid Nitrogen cooling, we can get 800/1500.

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: Rollo

Originally posted by: Soccerman06
So ATI is going to lose how much market share because they dont release the super high end card right away like Nvidia (or 4 months later)? ATI has 26.8% of the market, while Nvidia has only 15.9%. And now that ATI is teaming up with Intel and having Intel use the X200 chipset for the mainstream low-end, they will get an even larger market share, perhaps take some of Intel's market share. Proof

The problem for ATI is that they have less than 25% of the performance market, where money is made. They do have a big share of the low end, but earn no profit on it.

oversimplified

 

[Insomniak]

Originally posted by: apoppin

Originally posted by: Rollo

Originally posted by: Soccerman06
So ATI is going to lose how much market share because they dont release the super high end card right away like Nvidia (or 4 months later)? ATI has 26.8% of the market, while Nvidia has only 15.9%. And now that ATI is teaming up with Intel and having Intel use the X200 chipset for the mainstream low-end, they will get an even larger market share, perhaps take some of Intel's market share. Proof

The problem for ATI is that they have less than 25% of the performance market, where money is made. They do have a big share of the low end, but earn no profit on it.

oversimplified

Does anyone else see the irony in using a single word to label a reply "oversimplified"?


?





??





















Eh, never mind.

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: Insomniak

Originally posted by: apoppin

Originally posted by: Rollo

Originally posted by: Soccerman06
So ATI is going to lose how much market share because they dont release the super high end card right away like Nvidia (or 4 months later)? ATI has 26.8% of the market, while Nvidia has only 15.9%. And now that ATI is teaming up with Intel and having Intel use the X200 chipset for the mainstream low-end, they will get an even larger market share, perhaps take some of Intel's market share. Proof

The problem for ATI is that they have less than 25% of the performance market, where money is made. They do have a big share of the low end, but earn no profit on it.

oversimplified

Does anyone else see the irony in using a single word to label a reply "oversimplified"?


?





??





















Eh, never mind.

oversimplified

😛

what kind of irony? . . . draconic? . . . Socratic?

😀

 

[Keysplayr]

Originally posted by: Hacp

Originally posted by: ddogg

Originally posted by: Hacp

Originally posted by: ddogg
no one cares a damn anymore about the GTX's supposed MSRP of 599 because it sells for about $150 lesser. dont bring your fanboyism into this thread please.

And how do you know ATI's card won't sell for 150 dollars less? Can you promise that 2 weeks past the release, you won't see cards selling for less than the MSRP? If no one can garentee that, then please don't post about the supposed price everyone will pay for the R520. I hate it when Nvidia fanboys cling on to every article that might look bad about ATI, and then dive in like ravens to pick it apart.

geez...you're putting words into my mouth...i didnt say that ATI's cards wouldnt drop in price after x number of months. and you're just speculating that there will be this particular price drop. your post is further emphasizing your fanboyism!!!

EDIT: and you actually think it will drop that much in price after 2 weeks?? the GTX has been in mass availability for months which has enabled it to come down in price....considering ATI's "super card" clocked at 700 i highly doubt we will see massive price drops.

GTX was 50 dollars less than MSRP the first day, by rebate of XFX. Also, I never mentioned your name when I said " If NO ONE can garentee it, then don't say anything". Did I say, If YOU can't garentee it? No. You misread my post.

Also, Did I ever mention that I thought the price would be 150 dollars less than MSRP? NO. I just said that if no one can garentee that the price would stay at MSRP 2 weeks after the release, then don't post about it. I have done no speculation. I have just said that if people can't garentee that the price won't drop, then don't say that the price would be a full 150 dollars more to get a r520 than the GTX.

Everybody else who was having a nice calm discussion before the troll arrived, do 'ol keys a favor and ignore him. I will give you all a cookie. 😉

 

[Hacp]

Originally posted by: keysplayr2003

Originally posted by: Hacp

Originally posted by: ddogg

Originally posted by: Hacp

Originally posted by: ddogg
no one cares a damn anymore about the GTX's supposed MSRP of 599 because it sells for about $150 lesser. dont bring your fanboyism into this thread please.

And how do you know ATI's card won't sell for 150 dollars less? Can you promise that 2 weeks past the release, you won't see cards selling for less than the MSRP? If no one can garentee that, then please don't post about the supposed price everyone will pay for the R520. I hate it when Nvidia fanboys cling on to every article that might look bad about ATI, and then dive in like ravens to pick it apart.

geez...you're putting words into my mouth...i didnt say that ATI's cards wouldnt drop in price after x number of months. and you're just speculating that there will be this particular price drop. your post is further emphasizing your fanboyism!!!

EDIT: and you actually think it will drop that much in price after 2 weeks?? the GTX has been in mass availability for months which has enabled it to come down in price....considering ATI's "super card" clocked at 700 i highly doubt we will see massive price drops.

GTX was 50 dollars less than MSRP the first day, by rebate of XFX. Also, I never mentioned your name when I said " If NO ONE can garentee it, then don't say anything". Did I say, If YOU can't garentee it? No. You misread my post.

Also, Did I ever mention that I thought the price would be 150 dollars less than MSRP? NO. I just said that if no one can garentee that the price would stay at MSRP 2 weeks after the release, then don't post about it. I have done no speculation. I have just said that if people can't garentee that the price won't drop, then don't say that the price would be a full 150 dollars more to get a r520 than the GTX.

Everybody else who was having a nice calm discussion before the troll arrived, do 'ol keys a favor and ignore him. I will give you all a cookie. 😉

Looks like your fanboyism is taking you into virual reality. Bashing ATI is not a discussion. Its called bashing. Pointing out that your a fanboy isn't trolling.

You better not respond to my post btw. 🙂

Ow ya, and I don't think fanboys have the right to call anyone trolls.

 

[Keysplayr]

Originally posted by: M0RPH

Originally posted by: Hacp
Hmm Nvidia fanboy thread?

That's exactly what this is. Doesn't even deserve a response.

But you did respond. 😉 Are you trying to cancel yourself out? LOL

 

[Soccerman06]

Originally posted by: Rollo

Originally posted by: Soccerman06
Rollo, You do know that the money is in the low end right? You think Ferrari made much money when producing the Enzo? They made the money on royalties and the 360. Selling hundred of thousands of $100 chips (and making $75) for the low end VS thousands of $400 (making $250) for the high end. Which makes the company more money? These are just guesses on what they really get for profit on each chip, so if anyone can find what the profit margin on the cards are, you can figure out which truly makes the money.

No, I think you're wrong. I think higher average cost per chip is what AMD, Intel, ATI, and nVidia all strive for.

You're thinking of total cost per card, which is FAR above the GPU cost. ATI isn't dominating the $100 chip market, ATI is leading in the $5 chip market.

That is why they lost millions last quarter while gaining market share, and nVidia had record profits while losing market share.

It was an example, nothing else.

 

[g3pro]

An ATi exec is quoted as saying to nVidia "We will bury you!"

😛