ATI once again beat by Nvidia.. now two generations behind!

[ElFenix]

Originally posted by: mlmcasual
Two generation, I'll clarify. im only counting what is available on the market. not available in "bigfoot sighting" quantities.. so yes.. just like the 850pe when it was "launched".. so to the trend is here in the 1800xt.. you cant count the 1800xt.. so must refer to xl.. which the TRUE Ati available product.. .. 7800 gtx beats the xl hands down.. the 7800gt512 beats the 256gtx hands down and is a generation (albeit incrmental) above the gtx.. Hence, yes we are talking two generations differnce between companies.. the gap that is..

Im looking at this from a realist perspective and the facts of the here and now..

the xl is the same generation as the xt. the gtx is the same generation as the ultra.

in fact, the 7800 is the same generation as the 6800.

generations are new featuresets, refreshes are added playability. and then there can be lines of cards within refreshes, such as the ti200, ti400, and ti600 gf3s. or the xt, xl, vanilla, gto, gto2, le, pe, se, gt, gtx, sex and lol lines.

 

[Elfear]

OP- Just to clarify. The X800XT PE was the hard to find card. The X850XT PE was available in good quantity and didn't take any work at all to secure one. I assume that you've never owned either a 6800Ultra or an X850XT PE or you wouldn't be saying the ATI card was behind.

 

[Corporate Thug]

rollo, when you game, do u use headphones or nice speakers? if so, i dont you will hear the card

 

[nts]

Originally posted by: Elfear
OP- Just to clarify. The X800XT PE was the hard to find card. The X850XT PE was available in good quantity and didn't take any work at all to secure one. I assume that you've never owned either a 6800Ultra or an X850XT PE or you wouldn't be saying the ATI card was behind.

The really hard to find card was the 6800 Ultra Extreme that NVIDIA sent to reviewers to compare against the X800 when they learned the X800 was faster.

AFAIK That card never shipped (longest paper launch in history?) and in a later interview with NVIDIA (Jen?) said that the card never existed (not officially) and was invented by the media :roll:

 

[ElFenix]

Originally posted by: nts

Originally posted by: Elfear
OP- Just to clarify. The X800XT PE was the hard to find card. The X850XT PE was available in good quantity and didn't take any work at all to secure one. I assume that you've never owned either a 6800Ultra or an X850XT PE or you wouldn't be saying the ATI card was behind.

The really hard to find card was the 6800 Ultra Extreme that NVIDIA sent to reviewers to compare against the X800 when they learned the X800 was faster.

AFAIK That card never shipped (longest paper launch in history?) and in a later interview with NVIDIA (Jen?) said that the card never existed (not officially) and was invented by the media :roll:

i do remember reading about the ultra extreme in anandtech's article.

 

[imported_Rampage]

Originally posted by: mlmcasual
Seriously... wake up and smell the Molson Beer.

Im neither an ATI nor an Nvidia Fan boy.. Iv had both in the past and go for who has their @#$ together.. Look, for over a year now ATI has always been a step behind. Worse yet they have lost their credibility to even MAKE any claims. The x850pe? yea, I waited 6 months on a continually updated backorder that never happened.. all traced down to what ATI was promising it's vendors. So far the 1800xt is looking the same.. Just enough quantities to lay claim that it exist.. but not enough in market to make it an available product.

Heres the truth.. Ati has maintained this trend it is not able to produce consumer quantities of it's highest end card.. was true for the x850te and true now of the 1800xt.. even said, those cards were/are a generation behind the best of Nividia at the given times.. thus ATI has maintained for effective reasons to be TWO GENERATION BEHIND NVIDIA.. now we are talking 3 generations out to discuss the R580? Get real, why not say ATI is working on quantum GPUS that will dominate all.. There is fiction,whisfull thinking, promises, fanboyism, .. then there is reality. Reality is Nvidia has is and will continue to dominate Ati, unless Ati can get it's act together... THis isn't an opion based in wishful thinking.. this is reality today and the facts speak for themselves. The reality also is we NEED Ati to get it?s stuff together as competition is good for us the consumers.

You make some very good points.

This is not a troll thread.

 

[Zstream]

Originally posted by: southpawuni

Originally posted by: mlmcasual
Seriously... wake up and smell the Molson Beer.

Im neither an ATI nor an Nvidia Fan boy.. Iv had both in the past and go for who has their @#$ together.. Look, for over a year now ATI has always been a step behind. Worse yet they have lost their credibility to even MAKE any claims. The x850pe? yea, I waited 6 months on a continually updated backorder that never happened.. all traced down to what ATI was promising it's vendors. So far the 1800xt is looking the same.. Just enough quantities to lay claim that it exist.. but not enough in market to make it an available product.

Heres the truth.. Ati has maintained this trend it is not able to produce consumer quantities of it's highest end card.. was true for the x850te and true now of the 1800xt.. even said, those cards were/are a generation behind the best of Nividia at the given times.. thus ATI has maintained for effective reasons to be TWO GENERATION BEHIND NVIDIA.. now we are talking 3 generations out to discuss the R580? Get real, why not say ATI is working on quantum GPUS that will dominate all.. There is fiction,whisfull thinking, promises, fanboyism, .. then there is reality. Reality is Nvidia has is and will continue to dominate Ati, unless Ati can get it's act together... THis isn't an opion based in wishful thinking.. this is reality today and the facts speak for themselves. The reality also is we NEED Ati to get it?s stuff together as competition is good for us the consumers.

You make some very good points.

This is not a troll thread.

I think this was sarcasm if not then well stupidity ring a bell?

 

[imported_Rampage]

:disgust: Whats wrong with his post?

Just because you dont agree, and you dont like it.. does not mean the guy is wrong nor not entitled to his opinion.

 

[crazydingo]

Originally posted by: nts

Originally posted by: Rollo
More like unfortunately for the poor guys who buy it and have to listen to that awful dustbuster as they game!

Wow still pushing that argument... I thought you were proven wrong already.

If you are so opposed to noise then how come you have a SLI system? The noise those cards must produce...

pwned !

Just to remind him ... 71 > 69. :laugh:

 

[imported_Rampage]

Originally posted by: Rollo

Originally posted by: nts

Originally posted by: Rollo

Originally posted by: mlmcasual
Two generation, I'll clarify. im only counting what is available on the market. not available in "bigfoot sighting" quantities..

X1800XT sightings?

X1800XT sightings?

Personally I think the second one is the XT- it clearly needs more cooling?

I was wondering when you were gonna show up and start trolling...

So you thought you'd join me at it and say it's justified because 'It's for ATI!"?

The X1800XT is currently available (unfortunate for you),

More like unfortunately for the poor guys who buy it and have to listen to that awful dustbuster as they game!

the GTX-512 sold out its limited amount of cards and doesn't look like they'll get more anytime soon (I think I heard a week to 2 weeks before new ones are coming in).

Hmmm. Available 3 days before launch and sold out 4 days after launch due to huge demand. Compared to available a month after paper launch. I see your point! (not)

Haha PWNED!
Excellent post Rollo.

 

[ArchAngel777]

Originally posted by: crazydingo

Originally posted by: nts

Originally posted by: Rollo
More like unfortunately for the poor guys who buy it and have to listen to that awful dustbuster as they game!

Wow still pushing that argument... I thought you were proven wrong already.

If you are so opposed to noise then how come you have a SLI system? The noise those cards must produce...

pwned !

Just to remind him ... 71 > 69. :laugh:

For not liking Rollo much you sure do follow him around keep tabs on him... My guess is that you have some obsession with him.

 

[Greenman]

So if ATI's newest cards are 2 gens behind iNvida with almost the exact same performance, I'd say their doing a GREAT job. And when they catch up iNvida is sunk. The OP also states you can't get an x1800xt, perhaps he can't, but my credit card works fine and I can order one right now and have it in my hand tomorrow. The rest is just ranting and has no value or meaning.

 

[Corporate Thug]

Originally posted by: southpawuni

Originally posted by: mlmcasual
Seriously... wake up and smell the Molson Beer.

Im neither an ATI nor an Nvidia Fan boy.. Iv had both in the past and go for who has their @#$ together.. Look, for over a year now ATI has always been a step behind. Worse yet they have lost their credibility to even MAKE any claims. The x850pe? yea, I waited 6 months on a continually updated backorder that never happened.. all traced down to what ATI was promising it's vendors. So far the 1800xt is looking the same.. Just enough quantities to lay claim that it exist.. but not enough in market to make it an available product.

Heres the truth.. Ati has maintained this trend it is not able to produce consumer quantities of it's highest end card.. was true for the x850te and true now of the 1800xt.. even said, those cards were/are a generation behind the best of Nividia at the given times.. thus ATI has maintained for effective reasons to be TWO GENERATION BEHIND NVIDIA.. now we are talking 3 generations out to discuss the R580? Get real, why not say ATI is working on quantum GPUS that will dominate all.. There is fiction,whisfull thinking, promises, fanboyism, .. then there is reality. Reality is Nvidia has is and will continue to dominate Ati, unless Ati can get it's act together... THis isn't an opion based in wishful thinking.. this is reality today and the facts speak for themselves. The reality also is we NEED Ati to get it?s stuff together as competition is good for us the consumers.

You make some very good points.

This is not a troll thread.

oh, you should know by now anytime that nvidia is compared to ATi, it is or whill quickly turn into the a flamefest

lets take some of Rollo's arguments:

X1800XT sightings?

X1800XT sightings?

Personally I think the second one is the XT- it clearly needs more cooling?

dont understand the point. the cards could be found if someone wants them. the GTX 512 lauch was very similar to the x1800xt in terms of availibility

and for the noise level, its comparable to the SLI setup he runs

seems like Rollo sometimes grasps for arguments. i mean lets be practical: do high end gamers really care about noise?

 

[crazydingo]

Originally posted by: ArchAngel777
For not liking Rollo much you sure do follow him around keep tabs on him... My guess is that you have some obsession with him.

Its funny to see him outdo himself. (in the wrong way)

And its not hard to find him, just look at threads with ATI in it and expect Rollo to derail, flame-bait etc.

 

[Corporate Thug]

btw, let me quote what rollo raid about a 5800U

The guys that say the 5800 is noisey:
It is totally silent in 2d, the fan doesn't run.
In 3d it's definitely noticeable, it sounds like a case tricked for OCing with some a big fan or two. With the audio of the game going it's not that noticeable.

Sooooo, the noise level on a 5800 isnt noticable in gaming but the x1800xt can be heard???

 

[crazydingo]

Originally posted by: Corporate Thug
btw, let me quote what rollo raid about a 5800U

The guys that say the 5800 is noisey:
It is totally silent in 2d, the fan doesn't run.
In 3d it's definitely noticeable, it sounds like a case tricked for OCing with some a big fan or two. With the audio of the game going it's not that noticeable.

Sooooo, the noise level on a 5800 isnt noticable in gaming but the x1800xt can be heard???

Hypocricy. :laugh:

 

[fstime]

Originally posted by: crazydingo

Originally posted by: Corporate Thug
btw, let me quote what rollo raid about a 5800U

The guys that say the 5800 is noisey:
It is totally silent in 2d, the fan doesn't run.
In 3d it's definitely noticeable, it sounds like a case tricked for OCing with some a big fan or two. With the audio of the game going it's not that noticeable.

Sooooo, the noise level on a 5800 isnt noticable in gaming but the x1800xt can be heard???

Hypocricy. :laugh:

Hypocricy, fair and balanced my ass.

 

[Ronin]

Originally posted by: BouZouki

Originally posted by: crazydingo

Originally posted by: Corporate Thug
btw, let me quote what rollo raid about a 5800U

The guys that say the 5800 is noisey:
It is totally silent in 2d, the fan doesn't run.
In 3d it's definitely noticeable, it sounds like a case tricked for OCing with some a big fan or two. With the audio of the game going it's not that noticeable.

Sooooo, the noise level on a 5800 isnt noticable in gaming but the x1800xt can be heard???

Hypocricy. :laugh:

Hypocricy, fair and balanced my ass.

Welcome back? :thumbsdown: :roll:

 

[nRollo]

Originally posted by: nts

Originally posted by: Rollo
More like unfortunately for the poor guys who buy it and have to listen to that awful dustbuster as they game!

Wow still pushing that argument... I thought you were proven wrong already.

No, you linked us to the ATI fansite B3d where the editors quit due to the ATI bias (The Reverend) and I linked to HardOCP and pointed out the same was reported by CGW.

So people had the choice of believing the one biased fansite or a Ziff-Davis publication and an independent review site. It was only proven wrong to you, because that's what you want to believe, so you found a fansite to tell you. :roll

If you are so opposed to noise then how come you have a SLI system? The noise those cards must produce...

It's not the "noise" dB the sites complained of, it's the high pitched hair dryer whine my better designed SLI fans have. (BTW, I have three SLI sets that I use on two systems- none shriek at me like the Dustbuster XT!)

Hmmm. Available 3 days before launch and sold out 4 days after launch due to huge demand. Compared to available a month after paper launch. I see your point! (not)

Well atleast you dont have to wait a week to 2 weeks between limited batches of cards with the X1800.

No, because no one wants them! LOL

 

[dfloyd]

This whole argument is bottom line silly. Who cares? You think Ati or Nvidia does?

Yes they like having the highest end card out there, if nothing else for marketing purposes. Or at least I guess its for marketing purposes, how many boxes have you seen that claim this card is the fastest card period? I have never seen one. Maybe its got more to do with so many execs in each company being men and having to pump up their Video Card Peen. Or maybe Ati just has more logical people working for the company who realize the top end has little to do with a companies success or sales. Its all about volume, and Ati does a good job at that. You can complain about them if you wish but claiming something doesnt exist when it does just makes you look silly. Limited numbers or not it does not mean the card does not exist, and even in limited numbers its still not a huge deal as again the high end is a small percentage of either companies overall profit.

So please remember, these are companies, they are not just in this so they can make their Video Card Peen seem huge. Or at least I dont think they are.

 

[justly]

Originally posted by: mlmcasual
Since when is posting the truth trolling?

When your version of the "truth" is slanted, not to mention worded incorrectly.

Your claim is two "generations" behind when it should be speed grades, but even that isn't true because you use the 512MB 7800 as a speed grade and don't use the x1800xt as a speed grade. I'm sure that you do this because the 512MB 7800 is so readily available while the x1800xt is not, yea right :roll: ... lets find out if that is true.

Using the Anandtech pricing engine the results from a "7800 512MB" search returned 8 preorders and 4 available, using the same engine the results for "x1800xt" returned 7 preorders and 5 available.

Using the same search criteria on pricewatch resulted in 3 listings for the "7800 512MB" and 2 for the "x1800xt".

CompUSA is already listing the x1800xt as "comming soon" and has no listing at all for a 512MB 7800.

It would seem that the x1800xt is just as available as the 512MB 7800, and how much more available can you get than a nationwide retail outlet like CompUSA, yes it will take some time before your local mom and pop computer store has them but as for it being vaporware (as you would like everyone to believe) it definatly is not.

 

[Keysplayr]

Originally posted by: rbV5

Originally posted by: Ronin
Pssst.

There are a few key changes from the original 7800 GTX silicon that allow the 7800 GTX 512 to perform so highly. The 7800 GTX 512 still uses a 110nm process like the original 7800 GTX, but NVIDIA has tuned their fab process to speed up key data paths in the chip. These enhancements, while not altering the feature set in anyway, allow the chip to reach clock speeds of 550MHz (which is 120MHz faster than the original 7800 GTX). On top of changes in the silicon, the 7800 GTX 512 has gotten a PCB revision. And just in case anyone is wondering, the huge HSF solution is actually very quiet. NVIDIA is using a fan with larger blades that move a good volume of air without needing to run at super high RPMs. While it may look like an industrial sized leaf blower, it bark is certainly nothing compared to the bite this thing takes out of our performance tests.

Current 7800 GTX cards feature 8Mx32 GDDR3 with four chips on each side of the PCB. Most cards have a heat spreader on the back of the board, while some vendors have attached heatsinks. NVIDIA needed a better way to cool their RAM in order to hit the memory clock speeds they wanted. To this end the 7800 GTX 512 sees all of its RAM on the front of the PCB cooled by the very large heatsink previously employed on the Quadro FX 4500. Moving all the RAM to one side of the PCB may also have improved the routing to certain memory modules, which would also help increase attainable stable memory clock speeds. There are still only 8 modules total, as NVIDIA has also moved to higher density 16Mx32 GDDR3. The RAM used is also rated at 900MHz (1800MHz data rate), giving the stock memory clock speed of 1700MHz a little head room for vendors who like to overclock the cards they sell.

Psst, its still the same G70 feature set...same generation, G80 is their next generation chip, not the enhanced G70.

Pssst. RBV5, I think you know what he meant, now stop being so argumentative and understand that those paragraphs means that, yes, it is still a G70, and also, yes, it is a tuned respin of the G70. So it is quite literally a new and improved G70. I wouldn't call it a new gen either, but it certainly justifies the badge of "refresh". You know what he meant, why state anything otherwise?

 

[nRollo]

Originally posted by: dguy6789
quote:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The X1800XT is currently available (unfortunate for you),
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


"More like unfortunately for the poor guys who buy it and have to listen to that awful dustbuster as they game!"


Says the guy who traded his 9800 Pro for a 5800 Ultra. :roll:

Errr, so? I wanted to use a rare card for a month or two before the 6800s came out. I sold the 5800U for about $20 less than the 9800Pro I traded for it would have gone for, so I got to try out a very rare, very cool card for $20. for a few months.

Boy, I sure screwed up there! Out $20 whole dollars and a few fps for a few months while waiting for the 6800s!
Christ, I buy single bottles of beer that cost that much. You guys need to get over that trivial event in my life being some grandiose proof positive of my "video card imbalance".

 

[Keysplayr]

Originally posted by: Rollo

Originally posted by: dguy6789
quote:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The X1800XT is currently available (unfortunate for you),
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


"More like unfortunately for the poor guys who buy it and have to listen to that awful dustbuster as they game!"


Says the guy who traded his 9800 Pro for a 5800 Ultra. :roll:

Errr, so? I wanted to use a rare card for a month or two before the 6800s came out. I sold the 5800U for about $20 less than the 9800Pro I traded for it would have gone for, so I got to try out a very rare, very cool card for $20. for a few months.

Boy, I sure screwed up there! Out $20 whole dollars and a few fps for a few months while waiting for the 6800s!
Christ, I buy single bottles of beer that cost that much. You guys need to get over that trivial event in my life being some grandiose proof positive of my "video card imbalance".

Some people who love hardware a lot less than you do, cannot get their minds around why you would trade a 9800pro for a 5800U. They don't have the capacity to figure out that you wanted to try something different or rare, and very cool. You're out of your mind trading up for slightly lower framerates in certain games yet still just as totally and completely playable as with the 9800pro. They can't get it, so don't make 'em try. It hurts them too much. :beer:

 

[crazydingo]

Missing response to the hypocricy above? As usual ...