ATI oks OC for x1800XT

[jasonja]

Originally posted by: 5150Joker

Originally posted by: M0RPH

Originally posted by: 5150Joker

I don't even think an XT at 700/1700 could beat a stock clocked 512 MB GTX. Loses in fillrate and would be about equal in bandwidth. It would probably maintain parity at best but not beat it out. Plus there's the problem of being available in quanitity and ATi AIBs don't seem to have the quality or services available that nVidia AIBs do.

I think a 700/1700 XT would be a winner. The new XFX GTX card only beats the XT's 3Dmark score by 500 points. And I believe that XFX card is going to be about the highest clocked GTX variant you will see.

Since when is 3dmark05 a measure of how well a card performs in actual games? Not to mention 700/1700 XT is just a fanboys wetdream at this point.

Fanboy wetdream? And what would you call a $799 XFX 512mb 7800? 700Mhz X1800XTs don't seem far fetched considering we've seen several people get there and beyond.

 

[Polish3d]

Originally posted by: munky
Look at this article
http://www.techreport.com/reviews/2005q4/geforce-6800gs/index.x?pg=4
The XT beats the GTX in every game at 16x12 AA+AF, except HL2 (how ironic), but even then it's almost a tie. If you look at some newest games like FEAR, BF2, Seious Sam 2, it beats the gtx by a large margin. You would need a 550mhz gtx just to tie it in those games, but it wont hold a candle to a 700mhz XT in those particular games. I'm surprised how much of an increase in performance the XT got with improved drivers, and you might be even more surprised at how it performs in future games with more complex shaders, and possibly even better drivers.

With regard to the topic, it's nice to get higher clocked XT's if they dont jack up the prices. The rumored clock increase are nothing spectacular, but any half-competent enthusiast would be able to OC it significantly higher, seeing how these cards seem to have some decent OC headroom.

Unless it doesn't take a 550mhz GTX to beat an XT, but one also with 512mb of fast memory.


Then, add the 550-600mhz core speed, and you might just have an overall winner

 

[CaiNaM]

so are xt's shipping in volume now?

 

[Paratus]

Originally posted by: munky
Look at this article
http://www.techreport.com/reviews/2005q4/geforce-6800gs/index.x?pg=4
The XT beats the GTX in every game at 16x12 AA+AF, except HL2 (how ironic), but even then it's almost a tie. If you look at some newest games like FEAR, BF2, Seious Sam 2, it beats the gtx by a large margin. You would need a 550mhz gtx just to tie it in those games, but it wont hold a candle to a 700mhz XT in those particular games. I'm surprised how much of an increase in performance the XT got with improved drivers, and you might be even more surprised at how it performs in future games with more complex shaders, and possibly even better drivers.

With regard to the topic, it's nice to get higher clocked XT's if they dont jack up the prices. The rumored clock increase are nothing spectacular, but any half-competent enthusiast would be able to OC it significantly higher, seeing how these cards seem to have some decent OC headroom.

More interesting than that look at hexus review of the Leadtek extreme and saphire X1800XT. Specifically look at the overclocking page:
http://www.hexus.net/content/item.php?item=3899&page=15

Check out the stats at 16x12 4x/8X
(GTX atstock 490/1250 and OC'd 540/1320 vs XT at stock 621/1494 and OC'd 705/1700)

..............Doom3...............Far Cry
GTX........57.8.................. 46
GTX OC..62.2...................53.29
XT..........56.5.................. 69.18
XT OC....64.1....................77.02

This tells me two things about the GTX 512mb vs XT:
1)The leadtek extreme comes with the massive Quadro FX4500 cooler and they hit 540 - the GTX 512 will be 550. (is this confirmed by now?)

While the memory should be a lot faster on the 512mb and will take back or increase the llead in Doom 3 the GTX 512mb will not dominate the XT in every bench. Look at Farcry the XT leads by 33%. With OC it leads by 50%. A 10 or 20 mhz bump on core and 400mhz on the mem is not going to make that up. With XTs hitting close to 700 and 1650 and up it's going to be a close race for those who care to OC.

 

[nRollo]

Originally posted by: jasonja

Fanboy wetdream? And what would you call a $799 XFX 512mb 7800?

A pre-release gougers price?

700Mhz X1800XTs don't seem far fetched considering we've seen several people get there and beyond.

Since when have end user OCing results been any indication of upcoming product launches?

 

[M0RPH]

Originally posted by: Paratus

..............Doom3...............Far Cry
GTX........57.8.................. 46
GTX OC..62.2...................53.29
XT..........56.5.................. 69.18
XT OC....64.1....................77.02

And they weren't even using Catalyst 5.11 for these benchmarks.

 

[5150Joker]

Originally posted by: jasonja

Originally posted by: 5150Joker

Originally posted by: M0RPH

Originally posted by: 5150Joker

I don't even think an XT at 700/1700 could beat a stock clocked 512 MB GTX. Loses in fillrate and would be about equal in bandwidth. It would probably maintain parity at best but not beat it out. Plus there's the problem of being available in quanitity and ATi AIBs don't seem to have the quality or services available that nVidia AIBs do.

I think a 700/1700 XT would be a winner. The new XFX GTX card only beats the XT's 3Dmark score by 500 points. And I believe that XFX card is going to be about the highest clocked GTX variant you will see.

Since when is 3dmark05 a measure of how well a card performs in actual games? Not to mention 700/1700 XT is just a fanboys wetdream at this point.

Fanboy wetdream? And what would you call a $799 XFX 512mb 7800? 700Mhz X1800XTs don't seem far fetched considering we've seen several people get there and beyond.

Actually $699 and I call it materialized reality, unlike the fanciful wishes of ati fans for a 700 mhz XT.

 

[Paratus]

Originally posted by: M0RPH

Originally posted by: Paratus

..............Doom3...............Far Cry
GTX........57.8.................. 46
GTX OC..62.2...................53.29
XT..........56.5.................. 69.18
XT OC....64.1....................77.02

And they weren't even using Catalyst 5.11 for these benchmarks.

I know. While I think the 512mb GTX will take the title of fastest card. It won't be by much nor on every benchmark.

The other thing no one seems to mention is the vertex shading power. I see folks saying 10K 3Dmarks on stock for the 512! Yet 3dmark seems to be severly vertex limited and the XT will have at least a 10% to 20% lead in vertex shading power (8VS at 625 vs 8VS at 550-580). (This is why the underwhelming X1600XT can compete with a 6800GT or ultra in 3dmark 5VS at 590 compared to 6VS at 400)

 

[Paratus]

Originally posted by: 5150Joker

Originally posted by: jasonja

Originally posted by: 5150Joker

Originally posted by: M0RPH

Originally posted by: 5150Joker

I don't even think an XT at 700/1700 could beat a stock clocked 512 MB GTX. Loses in fillrate and would be about equal in bandwidth. It would probably maintain parity at best but not beat it out. Plus there's the problem of being available in quanitity and ATi AIBs don't seem to have the quality or services available that nVidia AIBs do.

I think a 700/1700 XT would be a winner. The new XFX GTX card only beats the XT's 3Dmark score by 500 points. And I believe that XFX card is going to be about the highest clocked GTX variant you will see.

Since when is 3dmark05 a measure of how well a card performs in actual games? Not to mention 700/1700 XT is just a fanboys wetdream at this point.

Fanboy wetdream? And what would you call a $799 XFX 512mb 7800? 700Mhz X1800XTs don't seem far fetched considering we've seen several people get there and beyond.

Actually $699 and I call it materialized reality, unlike the fanciful wishes of ati fans for a 700 mhz XT.

Uh hello checkout the link or the X1800XT thread here (rcabor hit well over 700 on stock volts - hexus hit 705)

 

[jasonja]

Originally posted by: Rollo

Originally posted by: jasonja

Fanboy wetdream? And what would you call a $799 XFX 512mb 7800?

A pre-release gougers price?

700Mhz X1800XTs don't seem far fetched considering we've seen several people get there and beyond.

Since when have end user OCing results been any indication of upcoming product launches?

It's a pretty good indication of the headroom in the chips and now we have info that ATI is endorsing OC for it's AIB because of better than expected yields. 700Mhz seems well within reality and since we've already seen 700Mhz X1800XTs (not to mention 1ghz ones) than I'd hardly call them wetdreams.

On the other hand a $799 video card from a well respected etailer like Mwave; now that's a fanboy's wet dream.

 

[nRollo]

Originally posted by: Paratus
Uh hello checkout the link or the X1800XT thread here (rcabor hit well over 700 on stock volts - hexus hit 705)

OCd means nothing:
1. YMMV, a lot
2. Voids your warranty on many brands
3. OEM stock speed is what card purchases are based on mostly

 

[Elfear]

Originally posted by: Rollo

Originally posted by: Paratus
Uh hello checkout the link or the X1800XT thread here (rcabor hit well over 700 on stock volts - hexus hit 705)

OCd means nothing:
1. YMMV, a lot
2. Voids your warranty on many brands
3. OEM stock speed is what card purchases are based on mostly

I agree with the first two Rollo but almost all the guys I know who buy midrange to high-end cards oc them. Back when the 6800GTs were hot it seemed like everyone bought one because they could oc like mad. Most of the member's sigs show oced hardware. I know when I go to buy a card, oc potential is one of my top priorities.

 

[Wreckage]

After looking at early scores from the GTX 512 I think ATI can throw in the towel this round. The XT was just keeping pace with a 256 GTX, now it's fallen behind and I don't see them catching up until the R580 is released next year. If you consider SLI, they may never catch up.

 

[jiffylube1024]

Originally posted by: Rollo

Originally posted by: Paratus
Uh hello checkout the link or the X1800XT thread here (rcabor hit well over 700 on stock volts - hexus hit 705)

OCd means nothing:
1. YMMV, a lot
2. Voids your warranty on many brands
3. OEM stock speed is what card purchases are based on mostly

OC'd does mean a lot and quite a few users here @ AT overclock their cards. You are in the minority Rollo; most people buy price/performance champions and then overclock them. Why do you think the GF3 Ti200/Ti4200/X800GTO2/6800GT/X800 Pro/7800GT were so popular? These cards all have good to great overclocking headway, which many users take advantage of (just like CPU's, where most people are either running a 3000+ or stretching their budget for the lowest X2 possible, the 3800+).

With that said, the overclock potential of the X1800XT is its only saving grace @ $600; once the price drops then that o/c headway just makes it more and more attractive.

ATI has been doing well with overclockable cards (eg. the X800GTO2 comes to mind), which is why they're not totally down and out at the moment.

The 6800GS looks to be an interesting part for that reason, as well...

 

[Paratus]

Well Rollo my response about a 700mhz XT was to 5150s comment. While I'm sure a 700mhz XT is a dream for many fanATIcs it seems to be reality for many who bought it. (Althougn I did not run a 3 sigma distribution so take that comment with a grain of salt )

Personally I agree with you on OC'ing. I like my warranty too.

As to my original post it was to show the stock XT vs. the OC'd GTX. If Farcry is any example the 512. GTX won't beat the XT in every benchmark.


posted via Palm LifeDrive

 

[malG]

Originally posted by: jiffylube1024

ATI has been doing well with overclockable cards (eg. the X800GTO2 comes to mind), which is why they're not totally down and out at the moment.

Huh? ATI cards are famous for OC? how come you can't OC more then 50Hz (on air) with a X800XT-PE or X850XT-PE card?

 

[nRollo]

Originally posted by: jiffylube1024
OC'd does mean a lot and quite a few users here @ AT overclock their cards. You are in the minority Rollo; most people buy price/performance champions and then overclock them.

I've got no problem with that, but the X1800XT is hardly a price/performance champion? It's basically a factory OCd card if the only OEM OC they sanction is 3%? I'm aware some are having good luck OCing them, but it wouldn't be worth risking $600 to me to get those extra 5fps.

Why do you think the GF3 Ti200/Ti4200/X800GTO2/6800GT/X800 Pro/7800GT were so popular?

Largely because they offered very high performance for their cost. You can't take our microcosm here as indicative of the whole sales picture.

These cards all have good to great overclocking headway, which many users take advantage of (just like CPU's, where most people are either running a 3000+ or stretching their budget for the lowest X2 possible, the 3800+).

OCing flagship video cards is a little different than that though isn't it?

With that said, the overclock potential of the X1800XT is its only saving grace @ $600; once the price drops then that o/c headway just makes it more and more attractive.

You couldn't PAY me to OC a $600 card with a cheesy one year warranty!

ATI has been doing well with overclockable cards (eg. the X800GTO2 comes to mind), which is why they're not totally down and out at the moment.

They're pretty down and out.

The 6800GS looks to be an interesting part for that reason, as well...

The 6800GS intrigues me more as a budget SLI solution.

 

[nRollo]

Originally posted by: Paratus
Well Rollo my response about a 700mhz XT was to 5150s comment. While I'm sure a 700mhz XT is a dream for many fanATIcs it seems to be reality for many who bought it. (Althougn I did not run a 3 sigma distribution so take that comment with a grain of salt )

Personally I agree with you on OC'ing. I like my warranty too.

As to my original post it was to show the stock XT vs. the OC'd GTX. If Farcry is any example the 512. GTX won't beat the XT in every benchmark.


posted via Palm LifeDrive

I was just trying to say ATI won't be releasing a 700MHz XT anytime soon from the looks of things, and that speculating they will do so is pointless.

I'd rather spend $100 more to get the flagship part and a warranty on those speeds than save a $100 and be put in the position of eating $100s or committing warranty fraud (with most companies) if I burn something.

 

[Ackmed]

I am interested in seeing more overclocking results from XT owners. From what I have seen, most reach 700Mhz core, and some even up to 730Mhz. I dont care to overclock myself, and they seem to really overclock well.

Originally posted by: Paratus
While I think the 512mb GTX will take the title of fastest card. It won't be by much nor on every benchmark.

The other thing no one seems to mention is the vertex shading power. I see folks saying 10K 3Dmarks on stock for the 512! Yet 3dmark seems to be severly vertex limited and the XT will have at least a 10% to 20% lead in vertex shading power (8VS at 625 vs 8VS at 550-580). (This is why the underwhelming X1600XT can compete with a 6800GT or ultra in 3dmark 5VS at 590 compared to 6VS at 400)

I agree with this. Taking a guess right now, I too think that the 512 GTX will overall be the fastest card, if both are at stock speeds. I dont think the GTX will win all games when tested in a high res, and with AA/AF. The XT already has a pretty healthy lead in CoD2, Q4, and perhaps F.E.A.R. with the driver bug that was just discovered. I think the 512 GTX will gain and perhaps take the lead in these new games. But I guess we will know soon enough come Monday.

Originally posted by: Rollo

You couldn't PAY me to OC a $600 card with a cheesy one year warranty!

Not all ATi's cards have a one year warranty. If you want more, buy another brand with three. Try to be more "fair and balanced" please.

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: CaiNaM
so are xt's shipping in volume now?

Yes they are

MASSIVE numbers of X1800 XT cards are being distributed in the US and Europe as we speak.

 

[malG]

Originally posted by: apoppin

Originally posted by: CaiNaM
so are xt's shipping in volume now?

Yes they are

MASSIVE numbers of X1800 XT cards are being distributed in the US and Europe as we speak.

Huh? how come they're out of stock at Newegg and the etailers that do have them in stock are charging $700?

 

[Ackmed]

Originally posted by: malG

Originally posted by: apoppin

Originally posted by: CaiNaM
so are xt's shipping in volume now?

Yes they are

MASSIVE numbers of X1800 XT cards are being distributed in the US and Europe as we speak.

Huh? how come they're out of stock at Newegg and the etailers that do have them in stock are charging $700?

Its simple really. If the Inq story is real, then they wont show up until next week. First, they claim they are shipping, as of Thursday. I doubt they were shipped over night. Shipping generally takes a few days, and if going over seas, even more. So common sense would tell you that they wouldnt be selling 2 days later, on a weekend.

 

[route66]

Man, you're good at bending the truth...

Originally posted by: Rollo

Originally posted by: jiffylube1024
OC'd does mean a lot and quite a few users here @ AT overclock their cards. You are in the minority Rollo; most people buy price/performance champions and then overclock them.

I've got no problem with that, but the X1800XT is hardly a price/performance champion? It's basically a factory OCd card if the only OEM OC they sanction is 3%? I'm aware some are having good luck OCing them, but it wouldn't be worth risking $600 to me to get those extra 5fps.

I think the article isn't clear - the way I read the article this isn't a sanctioned overclock, rather they changed the specs for the speed.

Originally posted by: Rollo
You couldn't PAY me to OC a $600 card with a cheesy one year warranty!

Then don't buy ATI - other vendors make X18K too, and they have real warranties. How much longer are you going to keep pushing this misconception?

 

[malG]

Originally posted by: route66
Then don't buy ATI - other vendors make X18K too, and they have real warranties.

NVIDIA cards from different manufactures keeps getting better and better warranty.

BFG - Lifetime
eVGA - Lifetime
XFX - Double lifetime

AFAIK most ATI cards in North America are sold directly by ATI. Hence, this reduction in warranty will affect al lot of people in the ATI heartland. That's like saying.. "hey everyone we released a whole new series of cards which is going to whoop the competitions ass but we've made such a crappy design it's probably not going to last longer than one year...." :thumbsdown:

 

[jEnus]

Originally posted by: apoppin

Originally posted by: CaiNaM
so are xt's shipping in volume now?

Yes they are

MASSIVE numbers of X1800 XT cards are being distributed in the US and Europe as we speak.

Are you serously going to take the word of the Crystal Ball of the internet?