UG
<< What is "reading what is 'Written" " but not the act of observation of what is printed? >>
Oh contrare, Words from God are alive, and penetrate the physical being, giving Life.
Napalm381
<< BTW, quit smiling. Your idiocy is not offset by it. >>
That sounds like "circular logic" to me...
ed..UBB
<<<Oh contrare, Words from God are alive, and penetrate the physical being, giving Life.>>>
I will never let Gawd penetrate me...
I will never let Gawd penetrate me...
<< That sounds like "circular logic" to me... >>
No. Refer back to the proper definition of circular logic.
Well put, UG. So, Palco-boy, is your reading of the "truth" (whatever the hell that is) biased or not?
BTW, you STILL have not given a clear, concise answer to my question.
<...Oh contrare, Words from God are alive, and penetrate the physical being, giving Life...>
Which is why everyone of you says the bible is god's Word?
Which is it? You can't have it both ways.
Is his Word body-penetrating through your eyes or through some other <cough> permeable interface?
Which is why everyone of you says the bible is god's Word?
Which is it? You can't have it both ways.
Is his Word body-penetrating through your eyes or through some other <cough> permeable interface?
Eug
Lifer
- Mar 11, 2000
- 24,048
- 1,679
- 126
I used to buy the WWN every week. Just so damn hilarious. My favourite is the 6 foot Chernobyl chicken. However, it's embarrassing to actually go buy it - the cashier always looks at you funny.
I would suggest ignoring MrPalco. I've had a few discussions about religion with intelligent logical believers who use reason to argue their points - makes for an interesting discussion even if we choose to disagree. MrPalco doesn't seem to be one of these people.
I still remember a taped debate I watched between a Muslim theologian (from Pakistan I believe) and a Baptist preacher about various interpretations of Biblical text. The Muslim scholar referred to the Bible (both Testaments), the Koran, academic texts from all over the world, etc. The Baptist preacher referred to the Bible... period. Talk about a one-sided debate. Listening the Baptist preacher seemed like a complete waste of time because of his circular arguments, while the Muslim scholar was VERY interesting and his arguments were quite compelling, even to me as a non-believer in both Islam and Christianity. (P.S. My extended family is Buddhist, so I have no hidden agenda here to prop up either Islam or Christianity.)
My favourite is the 6 foot Chernobyl chicken. However, it's embarrassing to actually go buy it - the cashier always looks at you funny.I would suggest ignoring MrPalco. I've had a few discussions about religion with intelligent logical believers who use reason to argue their points - makes for an interesting discussion even if we choose to disagree. MrPalco doesn't seem to be one of these people.
I still remember a taped debate I watched between a Muslim theologian (from Pakistan I believe) and a Baptist preacher about various interpretations of Biblical text. The Muslim scholar referred to the Bible (both Testaments), the Koran, academic texts from all over the world, etc. The Baptist preacher referred to the Bible... period. Talk about a one-sided debate. Listening the Baptist preacher seemed like a complete waste of time because of his circular arguments, while the Muslim scholar was VERY interesting and his arguments were quite compelling, even to me as a non-believer in both Islam and Christianity. (P.S. My extended family is Buddhist, so I have no hidden agenda here to prop up either Islam or Christianity.)
<< MrPalco doesn't seem to be one of these people. >>
Well put. He instead merely answers questions with vague, ambiguous references to "the truth" that have little, if any, relevance to the original query.
<edit> BTW, it's "au contraire", not "Oh contrare". Before you attempt to use a foreign language, at least learn how to spell it.
"It may be that our role on this planet is not to worship God, but to create him."
..........Arthur C. Clarke
..........Arthur C. Clarke
We have no role but to live. Those who presume to define the role of life for us all are over-compensating their own role in life.
I refuse their attempt to gift me with their interpretation of life's meaning. The meaning of my life is my own -- no one else knows it better than me.
I refuse their attempt to gift me with their interpretation of life's meaning. The meaning of my life is my own -- no one else knows it better than me.
I need to go grocery shopping. Food, the source of life!
I think I'll get some ice cream, too.... ohohohoho
edit: bingo UG
I think I'll get some ice cream, too.... ohohohoho
edit: bingo UG
I haven't been following too closely to the discussion, but I did notice something about Christians having "circular reasoning". While this is true, doesn't everybody have circular reasoning? Maybe I am just misunderstanding the definition, but the way I would take it would mean everyone does. Example: You don't believe in a god. You believe in reason and logical thinking to figure out the origin of man. But since we are man, and reason is only electronic impulses in our brain, then we are using circular reasoning right? Maybe not. But I do know that man cannot prove anything. Therefore it is in man's best interest to come up with a reasonable hypothesis(or some word like that), on the origins of man. From the facts and information and other stuff that I have gained, I have concluded that Christianity is Truth. Now, for you it might be different. In my opinion, your not right if you believe in something else, but in yours it does. and vice versa. Ok, I have resorted to stating the obvious, but maybe it needs to be said.
Zenmervolt
Elite member
- Oct 22, 2000
- 24,514
- 38
- 91
A very contrived example of "circular logic" that no Christian that I have met has ever tried to use:
"The Bible proves the existance of God, because the Bible is the Word of God and therefore it must be the truth. Because the Bible is true, God exists." What this boils down to it "God proves that God exists.". This can be used in many different places (We need to conduct experiments in zero gravity, therefore we need the space shuttle. The space shuttle costs a lot of money, to justify having it we need to conduct experiments in zero gravity.) Circular logic is logic in which the premise and the conclusion are identical. One of the more interesting examples it the famous Catch-22 which summarized is:
If a person is insane he does not have to fly more combat missions, all he has to do is ask to be grounded. If he asks to be grounded, it means that he does not want to fly more missions, therefore he is sane and has to fly them. If he does fly them, he is insane and does not have to, but if he does not want to fly the extra missions, he is sane and has to.
For more than that, I say read Joseph Heller's book of the same title that originated the phrase.
Aaron Meyer
"The Bible proves the existance of God, because the Bible is the Word of God and therefore it must be the truth. Because the Bible is true, God exists." What this boils down to it "God proves that God exists.". This can be used in many different places (We need to conduct experiments in zero gravity, therefore we need the space shuttle. The space shuttle costs a lot of money, to justify having it we need to conduct experiments in zero gravity.) Circular logic is logic in which the premise and the conclusion are identical. One of the more interesting examples it the famous Catch-22 which summarized is:
If a person is insane he does not have to fly more combat missions, all he has to do is ask to be grounded. If he asks to be grounded, it means that he does not want to fly more missions, therefore he is sane and has to fly them. If he does fly them, he is insane and does not have to, but if he does not want to fly the extra missions, he is sane and has to.
For more than that, I say read Joseph Heller's book of the same title that originated the phrase.
Aaron Meyer
OH Puhlezz.
"Attacked by xtians"... Christians usually leave people alone, except for the very loud mouth ones, and those are best ignored not argued with. Chances are the person on that site starts arguments with christians, not the other way around.
I have found most of the "Youthfull" Atheists, to be nothing but whiney kids who don't have anything else better to do, and really have never researched any facts.
BTW: I am not a christian, just taking the opposite view of stupidity.
"Attacked by xtians"... Christians usually leave people alone, except for the very loud mouth ones, and those are best ignored not argued with. Chances are the person on that site starts arguments with christians, not the other way around.
I have found most of the "Youthfull" Atheists, to be nothing but whiney kids who don't have anything else better to do, and really have never researched any facts.
BTW: I am not a christian, just taking the opposite view of stupidity.
Shocking Blue,
AMEN BRO, AMEN. (and no im not religious)....its about time someone else here shared a good, solid view.
~Cannibal
AMEN BRO, AMEN. (and no im not religious)....its about time someone else here shared a good, solid view.
~Cannibal
Zorba
Lifer
- Oct 22, 1999
- 15,613
- 11,255
- 136
One more Atheist here, I wish I would've been here for the only thread though.
I just want to point out the fact that Hitler was not an Atheist. He hated Atheists as much as everyone else. Hitler created his own religion, which is often over looked by history books.
MrPALCO: I have heard many xains using the term circular logic. It was not invented by Atheists to help us debate xains.
Zenmervolt: I have actually met someone who argued with this: "There must be a god because, god is good, and there is good in the world, therefore there must be a god."
Shocking Blue: I think that depends on where you live. Around here if you don't wear a cross everyday at school, you'll have CIA (Christains in action) on your back all day everyday about how you are going to hell.
I was pretty much forced out of school by my English teacher, School Counselor, and an Assistant Principal. Because they knew I was 'different' and were scared by it. One of them would practically call me out of class everyday for some BS reason. They once asked me not to begin a book to school ('The book of Nod,' I was just reading it for the hell of it), to which I told them as soon as they asked everyone to stop bringing their bibles to school, I would stop bring my book.
Of course this really pissed them off. My English teacher started giving me F's on everything I did (I was getting A's before all this started). The grades in my other classes started to fall, since I was being called out of class so often. Also they would talk about me in front of others. By the time I left, more than half the school was afraid of me (With more then 1500 students).
In the end, I changed schools and now do correspondence. My point is, I did nothing to the xains, besides not going to "Pray at the pole" and other crap, and they attacked me. People were scared of me only because I believed differently, just like people were scared of blacks because they are different.
I just want to point out the fact that Hitler was not an Atheist. He hated Atheists as much as everyone else. Hitler created his own religion, which is often over looked by history books.
MrPALCO: I have heard many xains using the term circular logic. It was not invented by Atheists to help us debate xains.
Zenmervolt: I have actually met someone who argued with this: "There must be a god because, god is good, and there is good in the world, therefore there must be a god."
Shocking Blue: I think that depends on where you live. Around here if you don't wear a cross everyday at school, you'll have CIA (Christains in action) on your back all day everyday about how you are going to hell.
I was pretty much forced out of school by my English teacher, School Counselor, and an Assistant Principal. Because they knew I was 'different' and were scared by it. One of them would practically call me out of class everyday for some BS reason. They once asked me not to begin a book to school ('The book of Nod,' I was just reading it for the hell of it), to which I told them as soon as they asked everyone to stop bringing their bibles to school, I would stop bring my book.
Of course this really pissed them off. My English teacher started giving me F's on everything I did (I was getting A's before all this started). The grades in my other classes started to fall, since I was being called out of class so often. Also they would talk about me in front of others. By the time I left, more than half the school was afraid of me (With more then 1500 students).
In the end, I changed schools and now do correspondence. My point is, I did nothing to the xains, besides not going to "Pray at the pole" and other crap, and they attacked me. People were scared of me only because I believed differently, just like people were scared of blacks because they are different.
Wviperw:
Interesting, but logic by nature isn't subjective. 1+1=2 to everyone despite having different brain chemistries, countries, languages, beliefs, or even planets of origin. That's not to say that every statement is logical, though. Someone could say 1+1=3, but they would have to be a fundie.
Logic, and its derivative rationale, isn't debatable. Something is either true, false, or an invalid statement (i.e. Is this an invisible blue unicorn?).
Just a few thoughts that entered my mind after reading your post.
Cheers!
Interesting, but logic by nature isn't subjective. 1+1=2 to everyone despite having different brain chemistries, countries, languages, beliefs, or even planets of origin.
That's not to say that every statement is logical, though. Someone could say 1+1=3, but they would have to be a fundie.Logic, and its derivative rationale, isn't debatable. Something is either true, false, or an invalid statement (i.e. Is this an invisible blue unicorn?).
Just a few thoughts that entered my mind after reading your post.
Cheers!
Shocking Blue
<<<Chances are the person on that site starts arguments with christians, not the other way around.>>>
I have talked to the "person on that site." Because of his webpage, he has endured an onslaught of xian vomit(he, fortunately, welcomes all to a debate). If you notice, every single IM conversation or every single email he recieved that is in the "FAN MAIL" section was initiated by the righteous xian defending his/her faith...
Something I happened to notice is how the Xians seemed to have ignored the statement I made earlier. Here is a recap:
....Also, If you were born into a Jewish family, odds are you will be a practicing Jew all of your life. If you were born into a Muslim family, you would practice their religion. The point is simple. Is the Christian God supposed to be angry at a little kid that worships Buddha, Ra, Allah, Judge Judy, or the Ice cream man? Is it his fault that his family was raised that way? Is it his fault that he believes what he believes....
Can a xian please respond to this? I am very interested in knowing why your God creates people that he knows will not worship him....
<<<Chances are the person on that site starts arguments with christians, not the other way around.>>>
I have talked to the "person on that site." Because of his webpage, he has endured an onslaught of xian vomit(he, fortunately, welcomes all to a debate). If you notice, every single IM conversation or every single email he recieved that is in the "FAN MAIL" section was initiated by the righteous xian defending his/her faith...
Something I happened to notice is how the Xians seemed to have ignored the statement I made earlier. Here is a recap:
....Also, If you were born into a Jewish family, odds are you will be a practicing Jew all of your life. If you were born into a Muslim family, you would practice their religion. The point is simple. Is the Christian God supposed to be angry at a little kid that worships Buddha, Ra, Allah, Judge Judy, or the Ice cream man? Is it his fault that his family was raised that way? Is it his fault that he believes what he believes....
Can a xian please respond to this? I am very interested in knowing why your God creates people that he knows will not worship him....
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